Skip to main content

Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – September 25

OP ZaedynFel

  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 5
  4. 6
  5. ...
  6. 7
I'm on average diamond 1-3 in Swat, yet face champions all the time. Usually a party of 2+champs. So does this have to do with population of that playlist or should I've had a better rank in this playlist?
I'm on average diamond 1-3 in Swat, yet face champions all the time. Usually a party of 2+champs. So does this have to do with population of that playlist or should I've had a better rank in this playlist?
It's not so much an overall pop issue as it's a "top pop" issue. When champs play in SWAT, there usually aren't enough Onyx and other Champs for them to play, so they have to dip a little lower to get games at all, compared to other lists.

BUT, SWAT is a pretty low-skilled mode in our data, meaning large skill gaps don't really mean as much. Lower-skilled players still beat Champs just fine because of SWAT's randomness.
What is this? Silver vs Gold? Or does SWAT have wider MM params?

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/a248c17c-4f26-42f0-b9f4-8f85c52c5328/players/radar3301enigma?gameHistoryMatchIndex=2&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

Edit 1:
Quote:
Like no matching the same team more than say 2 times
I have no problem matching the same team over and over, as long as it's back and forth win/losses.

Edit 2:

There's no way I'm a gold/platinum player...

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/8c3d5e55-41d5-4cfd-a2ef-35edc4100a98/players/radar3301enigma?gameHistoryMatchIndex=1&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

Edit 3:

Apparently, I am a Gold 4??? I feel like I'm more of a Silver... Still doesn't explain why I got matched with a Diamond 5, above...

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/4e5294cb-0e9f-467c-8a4a-6a94bd7903a1/players/radar3301enigma?gameHistoryMatchIndex=0&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

Edit 4:

I ranked as a Silver 6 in Snipers last season. There is no way I got that much better in only 10 games. (10 games last season, 10 games this season)
Silver vs. Gold is well within the current matchmaking parameters, which allow up to 1-tier of a gap. That game was well within expectations.

How you are ranked season to season depends on where the pop sat last season. It can shift around without your skill changing.

As far as seeing a Diamond, that's possible if the Diamond is in a party.
Hey Josh, I just wanted to start by saying that I really appreciate all the work you've been putting into making Halo 5 a better experience.

I'm a bit unsure of exactly what you've been doing to the matching system, and was wondering if you could shed some light on what changed specifically for the Infection matching system? Is there a new MMR system? I and the Infection community have been experiencing a pretty drastic change in search times, even on expanded. Some of my friends who are extremely good at Infection have noted even longer times than me, (15min+)and every game with "sweats". This change in search times has been happening much before the Halo 3 throwback playlist.

If you have tightened the matching system for closer skill levels, would you ever consider taking off the mmr system or reducing it for the sake of finding matches? Some of my friends that I play Infection with have started losing interest because of this change, and I'd hate to lose them to a different game.

Thanks for your time,
-Legend
Infection is tighter than before, though relative pop hasn't decreased for it. I'll take a look.
ZaedynFel wrote:
What is this? Silver vs Gold? Or does SWAT have wider MM params?

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/a248c17c-4f26-42f0-b9f4-8f85c52c5328/players/radar3301enigma?gameHistoryMatchIndex=2&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

Edit 1:
Quote:
Like no matching the same team more than say 2 times
I have no problem matching the same team over and over, as long as it's back and forth win/losses.

Edit 2:

There's no way I'm a gold/platinum player...

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/8c3d5e55-41d5-4cfd-a2ef-35edc4100a98/players/radar3301enigma?gameHistoryMatchIndex=1&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

Edit 3:

Apparently, I am a Gold 4??? I feel like I'm more of a Silver... Still doesn't explain why I got matched with a Diamond 5, above...

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/4e5294cb-0e9f-467c-8a4a-6a94bd7903a1/players/radar3301enigma?gameHistoryMatchIndex=0&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

Edit 4:

I ranked as a Silver 6 in Snipers last season. There is no way I got that much better in only 10 games. (10 games last season, 10 games this season)
Silver vs. Gold is well within the current matchmaking parameters, which allow up to 1-tier of a gap. That game was well within expectations.

How you are ranked season to season depends on where the pop sat last season. It can shift around without your skill changing.

As far as seeing a Diamond, that's possible if the Diamond is in a party.
Re Snipers: These were searching Focused and less than 150 seconds though, so I shouldn't have been matching parties. Or is that just To4s it won't match? Or did that get turned off (I don't recall seeing that happen)?
True Yomi wrote:
@ZaedynFel,

Is it possible to set some kind of special MMR gains/decreases for those very weird matches? The reason I say this, is you should want the matchmaking system to be a design that lets you reach Champion 1 in any form, rather than just searching 4s. If you want it to be this way then the follow examples need to be tweaked. Examples:
  • Players search together on purpose but are way different ranks. They're most likely doing this because the stronger players will carry the weaker ones to a higher rank. (Can the system see this match as an outlier and instead read that group of players as all equal to the rank of the highest rank in the lobby? This way searching ranked encourages similar skill matches every time and if someone wants to go in with weaker players that wont work either).
  • Uneven parties match up vs each other. In this example, the team that has the bigger group of players shouldn't get a lot of MMR and the team with the smaller group of players shouldn't lose that much MMR. And then the weird team of three with one random vs two teams of two match up, this is hard to tell what is and isn't fair so it should probably be seen with small gains and decreases as well. Anything hard to tell should be too.
I understand that Halo 5 might not have the "population" to add the very best version of party restrictions in, so why not just mess with the MMR gains and decreases to better help/nerf the design of the problem areas to promote a more balanced ranked environment. Thanks and I hope you consider my thoughts.

EDIT: Here's a clip of Pro Player Ace complaining about Solo Q matchmaking. In this clip he says he needs a good teammate and asks if anyone will play with him after he just gets done losing a SoloQ game. It would appear even the pros dislike searching alone due to how unbalanced it is.

https://clips.twitch.tv/ExcitedPatientBearMingLee
We already give different CSR in those situations.

Likewise, when uneven parties match up, we also already don't change the MMR much, unless the smaller team wins.

We've also tested using the best player in a party for matchmaking. This resulted in worse matchmaking overall, including less people playing. The problem is that the weird case you're talking about is the exception and not the rule. A lot of people do just want to play with their noob friends. But, to balance this, a very high ranked player won't get much CSR when they do that.

We are not seeing a large imbalance in the data when players SoloQ. If a Pro player queues alone, the system will almost always put all the worst players on his team within the match in order to make sure it's still a 50/50 split. That's balanced, and not imbalanced. Pros should still lose half their matches if it's possible to give them a hard enough challenge.

As to your comment that we should let solo players get to the top of the Ranks, I don't personally agree with that. I think you have to roll with a party of Champs if you want to be #1, just like if you want to win a tournament.
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
Still can't find games in WZA with these new MM parameters. Searching in a FT of 2 people at 11 PM EST. Should be prime time top population, never had problems finding games until this last update. Now can't find a game. WZA playlist is officially dead.

Josh, please, can you do something about this... does your data indicate a problem with WZA? This playlist used to be relatively healthy but it feels like this last update has honestly killed it. It's actually impossible to find games now.
Data is currently showing a massive growth in WZA, which possibly suggests that by preventing the top players from donging on the lower ones, the lower players (lower 99%, not lower 50%) are playing way more than they used to.

So healthwise, WZA is actually doing amazing.
Really enjoying these updates.

A question, if you don't mind: The last time I played ranked (a few months ago) I noticed that every time I would reach platinum 6 I would be put, almost exclusively, against nothing but high diamond and low onyx players. I understand getting matched against low diamonds occasionally at this rank but this seems a bit off. I always figured that this was the result of the lowered population. I recall that there may have been some testing involving csr differences at the time that this issue was occurring. Has this been fixed in the last two months or is it still an issue?
It's definitely tighter than it was a few months ago.
ZaedynFel wrote:
What is this? Silver vs Gold? Or does SWAT have wider MM params?

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/a248c17c-4f26-42f0-b9f4-8f85c52c5328/players/radar3301enigma?gameHistoryMatchIndex=2&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

Edit 1:
Quote:
Like no matching the same team more than say 2 times
I have no problem matching the same team over and over, as long as it's back and forth win/losses.

Edit 2:

There's no way I'm a gold/platinum player...

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/8c3d5e55-41d5-4cfd-a2ef-35edc4100a98/players/radar3301enigma?gameHistoryMatchIndex=1&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

Edit 3:

Apparently, I am a Gold 4??? I feel like I'm more of a Silver... Still doesn't explain why I got matched with a Diamond 5, above...

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/4e5294cb-0e9f-467c-8a4a-6a94bd7903a1/players/radar3301enigma?gameHistoryMatchIndex=0&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

Edit 4:

I ranked as a Silver 6 in Snipers last season. There is no way I got that much better in only 10 games. (10 games last season, 10 games this season)
Silver vs. Gold is well within the current matchmaking parameters, which allow up to 1-tier of a gap. That game was well within expectations.

How you are ranked season to season depends on where the pop sat last season. It can shift around without your skill changing.

As far as seeing a Diamond, that's possible if the Diamond is in a party.
Re Snipers: These were searching Focused and less than 150 seconds though, so I shouldn't have been matching parties. Or is that just To4s it won't match? Or did that get turned off (I don't recall seeing that happen)?
The party stuff only prevents matching full parties.
  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 5
  4. 6
  5. ...
  6. 7