Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – September 5

OP ZaedynFel

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Weapon Tuning Changes to Matchmaking

As has been discussed in blogs and previous forum posts, we have some changes to Team Arena happening today. For all the details, see THIS POST HERE.

When the changes go live to Team Arena, you’ll find yourself with:
  • BR / Gunfighter Magnum starts
  • Ability Tracker Radar (like HCS)

Remember though, the weapons themselves will not have been changed yet. This will be the same BR you’ve always had in Halo 5. The tuned version of the weapons won’t hit until next week. This is to establish a baseline.

For more details, see the “Appendix: Team Arena Update” part of the post I linked above.


Latency Tweak for Australia

We made a small change last week to how we choose which regions servers from Australia will play on if they choose to search Balanced.

Previously, if players with relatively low latency to their best servers would only be considered for Australian servers if they searched on both Focused and Balanced. If they couldn’t find matches in Australia, their only other option was to search Expanded, which allowed them to often be placed onto US East servers with latency at 220 ms or more.

We changed it so players with low latency will now be able to play on US West servers when searching balanced, and get latency closer to 180ms.

If you are a player in that group and you still want to wait for an Australia-only match, it would be better to search Focused. Balanced will still try local first, but will fall back eventually to places as far as West Coast US (instead of East Coast US previously).

Players with higher latency in Australia are not affected by this change.


12-player Fireteam Update

We are still planning on testing this change as discussed, but we are currently busy with the weapon tunings plans. I don’t have any further updates on this right now.
As always thanks for the updates. Will you be involved with any of the tuning? I know its not your area of expertise, just curious. Im also curious how the smurf detering is coming along, as i have had to take a healthy break from MM. They are out of control in FFA and its making the game unplayable!
Br Starts :)
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making posts that do not contribute to the topic at hand.
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Wait, I'm confused. Isn't this thread all about how they are making CHANGES? I.e. Not staying the same? I'm honestly not sure what you're proposing. Map additions? Playlist changes? HCS is relatively new and they throw in new social playlists sometimes, castle wars, extermination, fiesta, etc.
I'll test again tonight but I was unable to find matches in Team Arena last night while searching expanded and to even played a placement game.
Why is Team Arena still AR/Pistol starts? I thought this BR/Gun Fighter Pistol Combo and New Radar started today? Sept 5th is almost over.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Weapon Tuning Changes to Matchmaking As has been discussed in blogs and previous forum posts, we have some changes to Team Arena happening today. For all the details, see THIS POST HERE.
When the changes go live to Team Arena, you’ll find yourself with:
  • BR / Gunfighter Magnum starts
  • Ability Tracker Radar (like HCS)
Remember though, the weapons themselves will not have been changed yet. This will be the same BR you’ve always had in Halo 5. The tuned version of the weapons won’t hit until next week. This is to establish a baseline.
For more details, see the “Appendix: Team Arena Update” part of the post I linked above.
Latency Tweak for AustraliaWe made a small change last week to how we choose which regions servers from Australia will play on if they choose to search Balanced.
Previously, if players with relatively low latency to their best servers would only be considered for Australian servers if they searched on both Focused and Balanced. If they couldn’t find matches in Australia, their only other option was to search Expanded, which allowed them to often be placed onto US East servers with latency at 220 ms or more.
We changed it so players with low latency will now be able to play on US West servers when searching balanced, and get latency closer to 180ms.
If you are a player in that group and you still want to wait for an Australia-only match, it would be better to search Focused. Balanced will still try local first, but will fall back eventually to places as far as West Coast US (instead of East Coast US previously).
Players with higher latency in Australia are not affected by this change.
12-player Fireteam UpdateWe are still planning on testing this change as discussed, but we are currently busy with the weapon tunings plans. I don’t have any further updates on this right now.
Thank You! I was wondering why we could now find Balanced games, with reasonable consistency... :D This was actually great news.
Why is Team Arena still AR/Pistol starts? I thought this BR/Gun Fighter Pistol Combo and New Radar started today? Sept 5th is almost over.
They are just running late. It is all good. :)
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.
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Finally BR starts
Syxnrgy wrote:
Why is Team Arena still AR/Pistol starts? I thought this BR/Gun Fighter Pistol Combo and New Radar started today? Sept 5th is almost over.
They are just running late. It is all good. :)
Actually they weren't "running late" this happened. It looks like those changes won't happen until sometime today.
It just hope that this doesn't keep us from playing these changes before the actual test starts.

On a different note: I have a question ZaedynFel. What part of the ranking system, if any, was brought over and used from Halo 4. There is a debate going on in another thread, and I got me thinking about the Halo 4 ranking system. I looked into it a bit, but I wasn't able to find an answer. Thanks for any help you can give.
@ZaedynFel: what happens to MMR during a season reset? Does the mu get reset to the average (25 or whatever), and the sigma stay the same, or is it the sigma that gets reset and mu stays the same? Or is it a combination of the two?

I'm not necessarily looking for exact specifics, but more of a general idea.

Thanks.
I have two questions for you ZaedynFel

  1. Can you give us a rough idea when something is coming out to help combat second accounts? aka smurf accounts. Not asking for specific day or month or anything, but are we thinking this fall,winter? is there any kind of timeline? I honestly think this is one of the worst issues in Halo 5 right now along with random disconnects from the server. I see more and more second accounts all the time, especially in Team Slayer.
  2. Yesterday my friends and I were playing Team Slayer and in the last two matches Game 1 Game 2 we played the same team back-to-back games (pretty sure one was smurfing too, but besides the point here) Unfortunately, we lost them both... :( The one match I lost 18 CSR and the other match I lost 16 CSR. Why would I lose different amounts even though I'm playing the exact same team? Ok I guess I lied lol this leads me to a third question lol
  3. What is the ranking system actually based on? Is it wins and losses only? (Which by the way I'm all for and think that's what it should be based on) if this is the case though, why would my CSR be different in those games I mention then? So I'm guessing it's not just based on wins and losses. Could you be specific in what it's based on, I'd also like to relay that information on to my friends. Do things like the amount of headshots, damage dealt, assists Etc factor into things or no?
Thanks in advance
  • Yesterday my friends and I were playing Team Slayer and in the last two matches Game 1 Game 2 we played the same team back-to-back games (pretty sure one was smurfing too, but besides the point here) Unfortunately, we lost them both... :( The one match I lost 18 CSR and the other match I lost 16 CSR. Why would I lose different amounts even though I'm playing the exact same team? Ok I guess I lied lol this leads me to a third question lol
  • What is the ranking system actually based on? Is it wins and losses only? (Which by the way I'm all for and think that's what it should be based on) if this is the case though, why would my CSR be different in those games I mention then? So I'm guessing it's not just based on wins and losses. Could you be specific in what it's based on, I'd also like to relay that information on to my friends. Do things like the amount of headshots, damage dealt, assists Etc factor into things or no?
I'm not Josh, but I think I can answer this for you.

  • You lose less CSR the second game because your opponents MMRs went up and your MMRs when down after their first victory against your squad which means that the difference between the two team's MMRs became less the second match which in turn affects the CSR impact.
  • CSR is based on wins and losses in that you can only add CSR via a match win and lose CSR via a match loss, but the amount of CSR value to be gained and lost is variable (at least to a degree: max +30 / - 30 I think) and it's related to the MMR value differences between the two opposing teams and perhaps your own personal MMR value difference to the opposing team's average too. Nevertheless, the level of CSR value gained for defeating a team is dependent on a MMR value difference. Vise Versa for a loss.
Josh has mentioned that they're working in concert with Microsoft on updating the TrueSkill (MMR) system that will incorporate more performance information. Perhaps aspects of headshots, damage dealt, assists, etc. will be included with that, but only they know the inner details of that at this point. The only thing I feel confident in saying will exist with this new TrueSkill system is that it will factor for whether you're partied up within a fireteam and perhaps using a mic / party chat. Now, I thought I heard reference to the idea that this new MMR would also reference performance differences in relation to the specific modes being played (ie. Slayer, CTF, Strongholds, Assault, etc.) -- how exactly I don't know, but it sounds like the newer TrueSkill system will be able to carry an aspect of your recent performances under different modes over to other playlists (at least in a very minor way). Not to mention, I also think I recall (in reference to the new TrueSkill system) there being a mention that if you're personal performance was much better than what the system may have predicted from you (aka you played super good and likely ended up the top player on the losing team) then maybe you might not lose much, if any MMR and CSR (or perhaps even add some MMR/CSR), but in turn you're teammates would have to take a greater CSR and MMR impact to offset that value difference.
I have two questions for you ZaedynFel
  1. Can you give us a rough idea when something is coming out to help combat second accounts? aka smurf accounts. Not asking for specific day or month or anything, but are we thinking this fall,winter? is there any kind of timeline? I honestly think this is one of the worst issues in Halo 5 right now along with random disconnects from the server. I see more and more second accounts all the time, especially in Team Slayer.
  2. Yesterday my friends and I were playing Team Slayer and in the last two matches Game 1 Game 2 we played the same team back-to-back games (pretty sure one was smurfing too, but besides the point here) Unfortunately, we lost them both... :( The one match I lost 18 CSR and the other match I lost 16 CSR. Why would I lose different amounts even though I'm playing the exact same team? Ok I guess I lied lol this leads me to a third question lol
  3. What is the ranking system actually based on? Is it wins and losses only? (Which by the way I'm all for and think that's what it should be based on) if this is the case though, why would my CSR be different in those games I mention then? So I'm guessing it's not just based on wins and losses. Could you be specific in what it's based on, I'd also like to relay that information on to my friends. Do things like the amount of headshots, damage dealt, assists Etc factor into things or no?
Thanks in advance
Hey look! I can answer some of these! :)

2. You lost less CSR the second match because after the first match, the system lowers your skill level, and increases theirs. Thus, the second time you play them, they are "better" than you, and it wouldn't be "fair" to penalize you the same amount for losing to a (now) "better" team.

3. The short and simple of it is: yes, the rankings only count W/L. There *might* be a very tiny influence based on other factors (i.e. kills/KDA/damage), but the impact of those would, by design, have to be extremely limited. Josh would have to answer that more specifically. However, I don't believe there are, as that would open the possibility up for people to game the system.

Hopefully that answers your questions.

edit:

eLantern wrote:
stuff
Beat me to it by mere seconds...
DaxSeven09 wrote:
Syxnrgy wrote:
Why is Team Arena still AR/Pistol starts? I thought this BR/Gun Fighter Pistol Combo and New Radar started today? Sept 5th is almost over.
They are just running late. It is all good. :)
Story of their life. I'm going to start telling my boss that everyday and come in 30minutes late and expect to be paid for and not get fired. #343mentality
Actually they weren't "running late" this happened. It looks like those changes won't happen until sometime today.
It just hope that this doesn't keep us from playing these changes before the actual test starts.

On a different note: I have a question ZaedynFel. What part of the ranking system, if any, was brought over and used from Halo 4. There is a debate going on in another thread, and I got me thinking about the Halo 4 ranking system. I looked into it a bit, but I wasn't able to find an answer. Thanks for any help you can give.
Halo 4's system was the same as Halo 3's, but:
  • You had to go to Waypoint to see your Rank (1-50)
  • For awhile we posted the top 200 players in a blog every week, using the backend rating which went above 50.
@ZaedynFel: what happens to MMR during a season reset? Does the mu get reset to the average (25 or whatever), and the sigma stay the same, or is it the sigma that gets reset and mu stays the same? Or is it a combination of the two?

I'm not necessarily looking for exact specifics, but more of a general idea.

Thanks.
mu stays the same.

sigma doesn't get reset to it's initial value, but gets reset to the largest possible value that makes sense given your mu. The farther from the middle your mu is, the lower we can reset sigma to without causing instability.
Hi Josh, ZaedynFel

With region restrictions being lifted - a question comes to mind - does latency or individual latency factor into matchmaking calculations?

Anecdotally - I'm noticing a lot of games wiht much lower skilled opponents, while being on ~200 ping is a bit of a handicap I'm pulling ridiculous stats against these guys and it's probably not fun for them! Lots of Onyx - Gold - Silver - Silver vs Onyx - Gold - Silver - Silver distributed games going on it seems.

Also, I've seen a trend throughout the game's lifecycle where after a few games, one or two proactive players will invite the best players from BOTH teams into a new fireteam to continue the search. This then results in further (very) lopsided matches, especially in BTB and larger hoppers, basically 10 minutes of spawn killing. What's going on in the back-end to facilitate this interaction - Does it make sense in these bigger hoppers to not only compare using W/L to determine skill values but also relative individual performance?

You mentioned that individual skill performance based on stats is not really viable because it's likely to be abused, but what about relative checks. Could the game look up your W/L and assign a value based on stats against each individual on the opposing team to help more accurately assess skill? Even if it's just compaing using the last two matches if you've just played? Just some ideas.
As always, the Ability Tracker is GOAT.

I'm fine with BR starts, but not sure of the point of the Gunfighter. I think secondary should be axed.

Also don't get why there's regular Gunfighters on some of the maps when you spawn with the Extended Mag one.
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