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Matchmaking Update 3/17/2020

OP ZaedynFel

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UPDATE: These changes are now live.

Since the recent CSR updates we have kept a close eye on both player feedback and the data coming back.

We have found that the changes are meeting their core intentions of increasing the integrity of higher-Onyx and Champ ranks. However we have noted that the scoring can be a bit on the harsh side. This was partly our intention to first make sure we get the benefits of closing potential loopholes before polishing the experience overall.

With that in mind, we will be implementing tweaks on top of the changes to improve the experience.

I’m not getting any CSR when I win
We are adjusting the updates so getting zero CSR on a win will be rare. Players will usually get at least 1 CSR.

When I play with friends, as soon as I hit Onyx CSR gains drop off right away
We are smoothing out the drop-off relative to playing with worse friends so it’s not as sudden. Players will see their CSR gains when at 1500 be close to what they were at 1499 (well, about 1/3 because it's out of 10 CSR instead of 30), and then slowly fall off as they move up into higher Onyx levels rather than right away.

In addition, if a player’s CSR combined with the rest of their party's MMR averages out to Onyx, they will get full credit for the win even if the player’s skill is much higher than their team's. So very high Champs can party with lower Onyx MMR (not CSR) players and still get full credit.

We feel these changes will smooth out the experience overall while still preserving the integrity intended in the original update. We are aiming to release the changes by the end of Wednesday if possible. We’ll update this thread when it happens.
Thanks for the good news!
I do appreciate you and your team for get the right balance for us. Thanks for the hard work. 🙏
Thanks for the update josh keep up the good work
So if I play with my friends who are diamond and I'm onyx or champ I won't really benefit from it?
Rossflex wrote:
So if I play with my friends who are diamond and I'm onyx or champ I won't really benefit from it?
That's exactly where I'm at now, played a game as an Onyx with my plat friend and got 0 csr after the win.
We actually damn near lost cause these "low plats" were good - probably smurfs.

So now I'm force to play quick play with them but the party limit is only 2 in quick play, like bruh...
They all left the game to play cod warzone smh, why does this have to be so difficult?

At least loosen the restrictions with quick play and let us party up.
Rossflex wrote:
So if I play with my friends who are diamond and I'm onyx or champ I won't really benefit from it?
Depends on the situation and how high your own CSR is. If the two of you average out to Onyx anyways, there's no discount.

The farther your combined average moves down into Diamond, the higher the discount, both in terms of how much you gain and in how much you lose.

Basically, you can't rank up playing only Diamonds. The system wants to make sure you play well against Onyx too.
W4R wrote:
Rossflex wrote:
So if I play with my friends who are diamond and I'm onyx or champ I won't really benefit from it?
That's exactly where I'm at now, played a game as an Onyx with my plat friend and got 0 csr after the win.
We actually damn near lost cause these "low plats" were good - probably smurfs.

So now I'm force to play quick play with them but the party limit is only 2 in quick play, like bruh...
They all left the game to play cod warzone smh, why does this have to be so difficult?

At least loosen the restrictions with quick play and let us party up.
Link the match and I can tell you more. But smurfing doesn't work right now because it catches them too fast.

Onyx + Plat will get you a bit of a discounted update after these changes go out, but it won't be zero.
ZaedynFel wrote:
W4R wrote:
Rossflex wrote:
So if I play with my friends who are diamond and I'm onyx or champ I won't really benefit from it?
That's exactly where I'm at now, played a game as an Onyx with my plat friend and got 0 csr after the win.
We actually damn near lost cause these "low plats" were good - probably smurfs.

So now I'm force to play quick play with them but the party limit is only 2 in quick play, like bruh...
They all left the game to play cod warzone smh, why does this have to be so difficult?

At least loosen the restrictions with quick play and let us party up.
Link the match and I can tell you more. But smurfing doesn't work right now because it catches them too fast.

Onyx + Plat will get you a bit of a discounted update after these changes go out, but it won't be zero.
Sounds good thanks for the info!
I appreciate all these changes. I feel like we're slowly getting to a ranked system that covers all the bases and truly reflects player skill. I'm especially happy with not punishing the winning team's gains anymore if the other team's player quits out. I feel like since this change was made on average, I'm getting waaaay less quits on the other team. Great job!
System for this in Infinite, no more Smurfs accounts
Hey josh, my teammates and I have a question. Can u explain the gain and the loss of theese matches?
they are in cronologicl order,in the first on Coliseum we lost and we lost a quantity of CSR, in the second on Truth we won but we only won a half quantity of the prevoius one.
The fact is the two teams are the same and it seems they are balanced in CSR too..so why this ranking system behaviour?

https://www.halowaypoint.com/it-it/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/ed14df23-536a-4a83-bc2c-6339f4f8ac20/players/ep%20iiviolaii?gameHistoryMatchIndex=6&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=All

https://www.halowaypoint.com/it-it/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/d8fe2c17-f0f4-494a-9426-e36c9658ce5f/players/ep%20iiviolaii?gameHistoryMatchIndex=5&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=All
Hey josh, my teammates and I have a question. Can u explain the gain and the loss of theese matches?
they are in cronologicl order,in the first on Coliseum we lost and we lost a quantity of CSR, in the second on Truth we won but we only won a half quantity of the prevoius one.
The fact is the two teams are the same and it seems they are balanced in CSR too..so why this ranking system behaviour?

https://www.halowaypoint.com/it-it/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/ed14df23-536a-4a83-bc2c-6339f4f8ac20/players/ep%20iiviolaii?gameHistoryMatchIndex=6&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=All

https://www.halowaypoint.com/it-it/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/d8fe2c17-f0f4-494a-9426-e36c9658ce5f/players/ep%20iiviolaii?gameHistoryMatchIndex=5&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=All
First match: Diamond 5 lost to a Diamond 3, so you will lose around 20.

Second match, again, Diamond 5 beats a Diamond 3, so you will only gain 10.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Hey josh, my teammates and I have a question. Can u explain the gain and the loss of theese matches?
they are in cronologicl order,in the first on Coliseum we lost and we lost a quantity of CSR, in the second on Truth we won but we only won a half quantity of the prevoius one.
The fact is the two teams are the same and it seems they are balanced in CSR too..so why this ranking system behaviour?

https://www.halowaypoint.com/it-it/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/ed14df23-536a-4a83-bc2c-6339f4f8ac20/players/ep%20iiviolaii?gameHistoryMatchIndex=6&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=All

https://www.halowaypoint.com/it-it/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/d8fe2c17-f0f4-494a-9426-e36c9658ce5f/players/ep%20iiviolaii?gameHistoryMatchIndex=5&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=All
First match: Diamond 5 lost to a Diamond 3, so you will lose around 20.

Second match, again, Diamond 5 beats a Diamond 3, so you will only gain 10.
So was they D3 in MMR average? because i see a D6, a D5, a D4 and a D1, the average CSR is D4 and our CSR average is 4,5 so it looks closely balanced.
And just to understand, which were our individual MMR?
Hi ZaedynFel! Thanks for the updates. It's really nice that we're still getting some support and response to feedback after so many years. I've been enjoying Halo 5 since launch, and have recently picked it back up with some new friends for the past 9 months, and we enjoy playing Ranked Slayer.

Sounds like you would be the person for me to ask some questions about ranking and matchmaking. Me and my squad have been curious for a while now. It's also possible you could point me to somewhere to read up about it myself, too. And I understand if you don't want to spend extra time explaining it if you don't want. Maybe others in the community have answers, too. Thanks, all!

Currently I play with 3 others. Each of our average ranks over the last 9 months come out to about the following: D5, D4, D1, P4 (currently, but this last guy probably should be D1). MOST of the time it is just the D5 and D4 player (our ranks fluctuate to average around a D4 I'd guess), but when all 4 of us play, we are probably averaging a D2 for the Team.

We have a few questions:
1) Whether it's the main 2 of us, or all 4, we seem to hit Onyx players on the other team a LOT. And recently the D5 and D4 players have been hitting Teams with 1-2 Champions in them, and teams with 2-3 Onyxes at once. We've even been matched against 2 Champs + 1 Onyx while not having either on our team. Can this be explained? Is it a matter of population and finding any match for them? Is it too early in the season for things to kind of flatten out for ranks and skill?

2) When we do play with our Plat friend, and we match against Onyx players or overall teams that completely outrank us, and we WIN, he seems to not gain much or any CSR in the process. Even when he wrecks and is one of the top players on the team. We all believe he should be higher rank than he is, but figured he'd win his way out of it quickly enough. Has this been addressed this season? Does the system think we're trying to boost him and reduce his CSR gains? It also feels like when he loses to a team that vastly outranks him, he will end up losing an unfair amount of CSR. It's like a constant losing battle for him either way and is very discouraging.

3) Does individual performance matter in a single match for CSR? Is there weighting for specific stats? The only thing I notice about our Plat friend is he doesn't always have tons of Damage or Medals. But we still win and he sees very little of the rewards.

4) When clearly playing against (or in) people in a group, does this affect CSR gains or loss?

5) It gets very frustrating when playing against 1-2 Onyxes and 1 Gold that average out to a D3, and the 2 Onyxes are more than enough to carry the team over us. Is there a reason this is allowed? Is it because of the population? Is there any talk about changing it so that groups can't be formed in Ranked Play of players a certain distance from each other rank/CSR wise? I feel like there are other options for these people to play Halo together (Social). Or maybe we can open Social Slayer to fireteams of more than 2?

Thanks for your time! Any info is appreciated! I don't mind being sent to other places to read about the topic. We're all very curious on how CSR works deep down. We just want to know how it is given and how matchmaking works for us since it has gotten pretty frustrating over time.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Hey josh, my teammates and I have a question. Can u explain the gain and the loss of theese matches?
they are in cronologicl order,in the first on Coliseum we lost and we lost a quantity of CSR, in the second on Truth we won but we only won a half quantity of the prevoius one.
The fact is the two teams are the same and it seems they are balanced in CSR too..so why this ranking system behaviour?

https://www.halowaypoint.com/it-it/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/ed14df23-536a-4a83-bc2c-6339f4f8ac20/players/ep%20iiviolaii?gameHistoryMatchIndex=6&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=All

https://www.halowaypoint.com/it-it/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/d8fe2c17-f0f4-494a-9426-e36c9658ce5f/players/ep%20iiviolaii?gameHistoryMatchIndex=5&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=All
First match: Diamond 5 lost to a Diamond 3, so you will lose around 20.

Second match, again, Diamond 5 beats a Diamond 3, so you will only gain 10.
So was they D3 in MMR average? because i see a D6, a D5, a D4 and a D1, the average CSR is D4 and our CSR average is 4,5 so it looks closely balanced.
And just to understand, which were our individual MMR?
I don't tend to give out MMRs for players other than the one asking. Yours is 1346 (Diamond 3). And, yes, by MMR this was D5 vs. D3.
ZaedynFel wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
Hey josh, my teammates and I have a question. Can u explain the gain and the loss of theese matches?
they are in cronologicl order,in the first on Coliseum we lost and we lost a quantity of CSR, in the second on Truth we won but we only won a half quantity of the prevoius one.
The fact is the two teams are the same and it seems they are balanced in CSR too..so why this ranking system behaviour?

https://www.halowaypoint.com/it-it/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/ed14df23-536a-4a83-bc2c-6339f4f8ac20/players/ep%20iiviolaii?gameHistoryMatchIndex=6&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=All

https://www.halowaypoint.com/it-it/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/d8fe2c17-f0f4-494a-9426-e36c9658ce5f/players/ep%20iiviolaii?gameHistoryMatchIndex=5&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=All
First match: Diamond 5 lost to a Diamond 3, so you will lose around 20.

Second match, again, Diamond 5 beats a Diamond 3, so you will only gain 10.
So was they D3 in MMR average? because i see a D6, a D5, a D4 and a D1, the average CSR is D4 and our CSR average is 4,5 so it looks closely balanced.
And just to understand, which were our individual MMR?
I don't tend to give out MMRs for players other than the one asking. Yours is 1346 (Diamond 3). And, yes, by MMR this was D5 vs. D3.
Wait, sorry, your MMR is 1222 right now. Your CSR was 1346 before the game.
Hi ZaedynFel! Thanks for the updates. It's really nice that we're still getting some support and response to feedback after so many years. I've been enjoying Halo 5 since launch, and have recently picked it back up with some new friends for the past 9 months, and we enjoy playing Ranked Slayer.

Sounds like you would be the person for me to ask some questions about ranking and matchmaking. Me and my squad have been curious for a while now. It's also possible you could point me to somewhere to read up about it myself, too. And I understand if you don't want to spend extra time explaining it if you don't want. Maybe others in the community have answers, too. Thanks, all!

Currently I play with 3 others. Each of our average ranks over the last 9 months come out to about the following: D5, D4, D1, P4 (currently, but this last guy probably should be D1). MOST of the time it is just the D5 and D4 player (our ranks fluctuate to average around a D4 I'd guess), but when all 4 of us play, we are probably averaging a D2 for the Team.

We have a few questions:
1) Whether it's the main 2 of us, or all 4, we seem to hit Onyx players on the other team a LOT. And recently the D5 and D4 players have been hitting Teams with 1-2 Champions in them, and teams with 2-3 Onyxes at once. We've even been matched against 2 Champs + 1 Onyx while not having either on our team. Can this be explained? Is it a matter of population and finding any match for them? Is it too early in the season for things to kind of flatten out for ranks and skill?

2) When we do play with our Plat friend, and we match against Onyx players or overall teams that completely outrank us, and we WIN, he seems to not gain much or any CSR in the process. Even when he wrecks and is one of the top players on the team. We all believe he should be higher rank than he is, but figured he'd win his way out of it quickly enough. Has this been addressed this season? Does the system think we're trying to boost him and reduce his CSR gains? It also feels like when he loses to a team that vastly outranks him, he will end up losing an unfair amount of CSR. It's like a constant losing battle for him either way and is very discouraging.

3) Does individual performance matter in a single match for CSR? Is there weighting for specific stats? The only thing I notice about our Plat friend is he doesn't always have tons of Damage or Medals. But we still win and he sees very little of the rewards.

4) When clearly playing against (or in) people in a group, does this affect CSR gains or loss?

5) It gets very frustrating when playing against 1-2 Onyxes and 1 Gold that average out to a D3, and the 2 Onyxes are more than enough to carry the team over us. Is there a reason this is allowed? Is it because of the population? Is there any talk about changing it so that groups can't be formed in Ranked Play of players a certain distance from each other rank/CSR wise? I feel like there are other options for these people to play Halo together (Social). Or maybe we can open Social Slayer to fireteams of more than 2?

Thanks for your time! Any info is appreciated! I don't mind being sent to other places to read about the topic. We're all very curious on how CSR works deep down. We just want to know how it is given and how matchmaking works for us since it has gotten pretty frustrating over time.
Matchmaking Onyx will depend on pop, yes. If you link me a match I can be more specific.

In-game performance has zero effect on the CSR update for that match. However, if they play better than expected, their MMR will go up and they will end up with extra CSR the next match.

But they have to maintain that. If they have a good match here and there, that's normal for any Plat player. A Plat player will even play like an Onyx in 5% of their matches or so. But that doesn't meant they deserve a Plat rank. They would need to consistently play like a better player to deserve that.

So the CSR system doesn't look at in-game perf at all. The MMR system does, but it doesn't do anything like, "I think they're being carried" it looks at how they perform within a match relative to what's expected. If they don't surprise it, the MMR does not move much.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Hi ZaedynFel! Thanks for the updates. It's really nice that we're still getting some support and response to feedback after so many years. I've been enjoying Halo 5 since launch, and have recently picked it back up with some new friends for the past 9 months, and we enjoy playing Ranked Slayer.

Sounds like you would be the person for me to ask some questions about ranking and matchmaking. Me and my squad have been curious for a while now. It's also possible you could point me to somewhere to read up about it myself, too. And I understand if you don't want to spend extra time explaining it if you don't want. Maybe others in the community have answers, too. Thanks, all!

Currently I play with 3 others. Each of our average ranks over the last 9 months come out to about the following: D5, D4, D1, P4 (currently, but this last guy probably should be D1). MOST of the time it is just the D5 and D4 player (our ranks fluctuate to average around a D4 I'd guess), but when all 4 of us play, we are probably averaging a D2 for the Team.

We have a few questions:
1) Whether it's the main 2 of us, or all 4, we seem to hit Onyx players on the other team a LOT. And recently the D5 and D4 players have been hitting Teams with 1-2 Champions in them, and teams with 2-3 Onyxes at once. We've even been matched against 2 Champs + 1 Onyx while not having either on our team. Can this be explained? Is it a matter of population and finding any match for them? Is it too early in the season for things to kind of flatten out for ranks and skill?

2) When we do play with our Plat friend, and we match against Onyx players or overall teams that completely outrank us, and we WIN, he seems to not gain much or any CSR in the process. Even when he wrecks and is one of the top players on the team. We all believe he should be higher rank than he is, but figured he'd win his way out of it quickly enough. Has this been addressed this season? Does the system think we're trying to boost him and reduce his CSR gains? It also feels like when he loses to a team that vastly outranks him, he will end up losing an unfair amount of CSR. It's like a constant losing battle for him either way and is very discouraging.

3) Does individual performance matter in a single match for CSR? Is there weighting for specific stats? The only thing I notice about our Plat friend is he doesn't always have tons of Damage or Medals. But we still win and he sees very little of the rewards.

4) When clearly playing against (or in) people in a group, does this affect CSR gains or loss?

5) It gets very frustrating when playing against 1-2 Onyxes and 1 Gold that average out to a D3, and the 2 Onyxes are more than enough to carry the team over us. Is there a reason this is allowed? Is it because of the population? Is there any talk about changing it so that groups can't be formed in Ranked Play of players a certain distance from each other rank/CSR wise? I feel like there are other options for these people to play Halo together (Social). Or maybe we can open Social Slayer to fireteams of more than 2?

Thanks for your time! Any info is appreciated! I don't mind being sent to other places to read about the topic. We're all very curious on how CSR works deep down. We just want to know how it is given and how matchmaking works for us since it has gotten pretty frustrating over time.
Matchmaking Onyx will depend on pop, yes. If you link me a match I can be more specific.

In-game performance has zero effect on the CSR update for that match. However, if they play better than expected, their MMR will go up and they will end up with extra CSR the next match.

But they have to maintain that. If they have a good match here and there, that's normal for any Plat player. A Plat player will even play like an Onyx in 5% of their matches or so. But that doesn't meant they deserve a Plat rank. They would need to consistently play like a better player to deserve that.

So the CSR system doesn't look at in-game perf at all. The MMR system does, but it doesn't do anything like, "I think they're being carried" it looks at how they perform within a match relative to what's expected. If they don't surprise it, the MMR does not move much.
Thanks for the reply! Here are a few games from yesterday:

1) 2 Onyx vs our 1. Not too bad but the D3 went off.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/3205e3c5-1a9c-409d-b0e4-11fa7b347b7f/players/t00muchrazmataz?gameHistoryMatchIndex=12&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

2) 2 Onyxes vs our 0. This is an odd one because looking at Limbo ll now, he is actually a #12 Champion?? Surprising since we played a few games with him on both ours and the other team
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/218ea98d-4d98-4981-bb73-e8972c9f6a7a/players/t00muchrazmataz?gameHistoryMatchIndex=9&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

3) 1 Champ, 1 Onyx, and Limbo again who I guess is a Champ. Vs a bunch of Diamonds.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/722c4233-10fa-4b82-a426-0d5eca48ea4d/players/t00muchrazmataz?gameHistoryMatchIndex=8&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

4) Same Team except this time we have 2 Champions.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/8c7b85d5-4dce-40b5-86f1-34f2983e054f/players/t00muchrazmataz?gameHistoryMatchIndex=7&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

5) Here is one with 1 Onyx and Limbo (Champ) and Emma (who becomes a Champ) vs us with 1 Onyx.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/1c5c103b-4fa8-4294-ab47-7163d0d7c527/players/t00muchrazmataz?gameHistoryMatchIndex=6&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

6) This time they have 1 Champ, and TryBoobyy who places as Onyx, but we have Limbo (Champ) this time on our team.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/9eed141a-2ac3-4e16-8bc8-2a37d7393efc/players/t00muchrazmataz?gameHistoryMatchIndex=4&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena7) We rematch #6 the next game. Goes poorly.

I guess I'm just confused as to why we would even be in games with most Champions, let alone a whole evening full of them. These games were never even close. Looking back, we had 4 out of our 9 matches come within 10 kills by the end of the match.

Yesterday was definitely an extreme example of this. We've never seen so many Champions in a single night. But it gets frustrating to see such imbalanced matches happen without understanding why.

After all that we switch to Fiesta/Husky Raid to cool off as we usually do.

I can go back some to maybe find some matches with the Plat Player, too. But will stop there.

I also forgot about the whole CSR vs MMR stuff in this game. So there is hidden MMR that is more like the True Rank, so we should be trusting the system that most games are "fairly" even? Unless population numbers are low an we're matching with a lot of Champs and Onyxes.

Or maybe if it's the beginning of a season and people haven't quite settled into their true CSR/Rank?

Thanks again!
ZaedynFel wrote:
Hi ZaedynFel! Thanks for the updates. It's really nice that we're still getting some support and response to feedback after so many years. I've been enjoying Halo 5 since launch, and have recently picked it back up with some new friends for the past 9 months, and we enjoy playing Ranked Slayer.

Sounds like you would be the person for me to ask some questions about ranking and matchmaking. Me and my squad have been curious for a while now. It's also possible you could point me to somewhere to read up about it myself, too. And I understand if you don't want to spend extra time explaining it if you don't want. Maybe others in the community have answers, too. Thanks, all!

Currently I play with 3 others. Each of our average ranks over the last 9 months come out to about the following: D5, D4, D1, P4 (currently, but this last guy probably should be D1). MOST of the time it is just the D5 and D4 player (our ranks fluctuate to average around a D4 I'd guess), but when all 4 of us play, we are probably averaging a D2 for the Team.

We have a few questions:
1) Whether it's the main 2 of us, or all 4, we seem to hit Onyx players on the other team a LOT. And recently the D5 and D4 players have been hitting Teams with 1-2 Champions in them, and teams with 2-3 Onyxes at once. We've even been matched against 2 Champs + 1 Onyx while not having either on our team. Can this be explained? Is it a matter of population and finding any match for them? Is it too early in the season for things to kind of flatten out for ranks and skill?

2) When we do play with our Plat friend, and we match against Onyx players or overall teams that completely outrank us, and we WIN, he seems to not gain much or any CSR in the process. Even when he wrecks and is one of the top players on the team. We all believe he should be higher rank than he is, but figured he'd win his way out of it quickly enough. Has this been addressed this season? Does the system think we're trying to boost him and reduce his CSR gains? It also feels like when he loses to a team that vastly outranks him, he will end up losing an unfair amount of CSR. It's like a constant losing battle for him either way and is very discouraging.

3) Does individual performance matter in a single match for CSR? Is there weighting for specific stats? The only thing I notice about our Plat friend is he doesn't always have tons of Damage or Medals. But we still win and he sees very little of the rewards.

4) When clearly playing against (or in) people in a group, does this affect CSR gains or loss?

5) It gets very frustrating when playing against 1-2 Onyxes and 1 Gold that average out to a D3, and the 2 Onyxes are more than enough to carry the team over us. Is there a reason this is allowed? Is it because of the population? Is there any talk about changing it so that groups can't be formed in Ranked Play of players a certain distance from each other rank/CSR wise? I feel like there are other options for these people to play Halo together (Social). Or maybe we can open Social Slayer to fireteams of more than 2?

Thanks for your time! Any info is appreciated! I don't mind being sent to other places to read about the topic. We're all very curious on how CSR works deep down. We just want to know how it is given and how matchmaking works for us since it has gotten pretty frustrating over time.
Matchmaking Onyx will depend on pop, yes. If you link me a match I can be more specific.

In-game performance has zero effect on the CSR update for that match. However, if they play better than expected, their MMR will go up and they will end up with extra CSR the next match.

But they have to maintain that. If they have a good match here and there, that's normal for any Plat player. A Plat player will even play like an Onyx in 5% of their matches or so. But that doesn't meant they deserve a Plat rank. They would need to consistently play like a better player to deserve that.

So the CSR system doesn't look at in-game perf at all. The MMR system does, but it doesn't do anything like, "I think they're being carried" it looks at how they perform within a match relative to what's expected. If they don't surprise it, the MMR does not move much.
Thanks for the reply! Here are a few games from yesterday:

1) 2 Onyx vs our 1. Not too bad but the D3 went off.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/3205e3c5-1a9c-409d-b0e4-11fa7b347b7f/players/t00muchrazmataz?gameHistoryMatchIndex=12&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

2) 2 Onyxes vs our 0. This is an odd one because looking at Limbo ll now, he is actually a #12 Champion?? Surprising since we played a few games with him on both ours and the other team
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/218ea98d-4d98-4981-bb73-e8972c9f6a7a/players/t00muchrazmataz?gameHistoryMatchIndex=9&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

3) 1 Champ, 1 Onyx, and Limbo again who I guess is a Champ. Vs a bunch of Diamonds.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/722c4233-10fa-4b82-a426-0d5eca48ea4d/players/t00muchrazmataz?gameHistoryMatchIndex=8&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

4) Same Team except this time we have 2 Champions.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/8c7b85d5-4dce-40b5-86f1-34f2983e054f/players/t00muchrazmataz?gameHistoryMatchIndex=7&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

5) Here is one with 1 Onyx and Limbo (Champ) and Emma (who becomes a Champ) vs us with 1 Onyx.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/1c5c103b-4fa8-4294-ab47-7163d0d7c527/players/t00muchrazmataz?gameHistoryMatchIndex=6&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

6) This time they have 1 Champ, and TryBoobyy who places as Onyx, but we have Limbo (Champ) this time on our team.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/9eed141a-2ac3-4e16-8bc8-2a37d7393efc/players/t00muchrazmataz?gameHistoryMatchIndex=4&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena7) We rematch #6 the next game. Goes poorly.

I guess I'm just confused as to why we would even be in games with most Champions, let alone a whole evening full of them. These games were never even close. Looking back, we had 4 out of our 9 matches come within 10 kills by the end of the match.

Yesterday was definitely an extreme example of this. We've never seen so many Champions in a single night. But it gets frustrating to see such imbalanced matches happen without understanding why.

After all that we switch to Fiesta/Husky Raid to cool off as we usually do.

I can go back some to maybe find some matches with the Plat Player, too. But will stop there.

I also forgot about the whole CSR vs MMR stuff in this game. So there is hidden MMR that is more like the True Rank, so we should be trusting the system that most games are "fairly" even? Unless population numbers are low an we're matching with a lot of Champs and Onyxes.

Or maybe if it's the beginning of a season and people haven't quite settled into their true CSR/Rank?

Thanks again!
Remember, it's early season, so most "Champs" are just barely 1600-level Onyx players.

Also, in general, Champs are just Onyx who get a special label because they're top 200. But, again, top 200 isn't a big deal only 2-weeks in.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Hi ZaedynFel! Thanks for the updates. It's really nice that we're still getting some support and response to feedback after so many years. I've been enjoying Halo 5 since launch, and have recently picked it back up with some new friends for the past 9 months, and we enjoy playing Ranked Slayer.

Sounds like you would be the person for me to ask some questions about ranking and matchmaking. Me and my squad have been curious for a while now. It's also possible you could point me to somewhere to read up about it myself, too. And I understand if you don't want to spend extra time explaining it if you don't want. Maybe others in the community have answers, too. Thanks, all!

Currently I play with 3 others. Each of our average ranks over the last 9 months come out to about the following: D5, D4, D1, P4 (currently, but this last guy probably should be D1). MOST of the time it is just the D5 and D4 player (our ranks fluctuate to average around a D4 I'd guess), but when all 4 of us play, we are probably averaging a D2 for the Team.

We have a few questions:
1) Whether it's the main 2 of us, or all 4, we seem to hit Onyx players on the other team a LOT. And recently the D5 and D4 players have been hitting Teams with 1-2 Champions in them, and teams with 2-3 Onyxes at once. We've even been matched against 2 Champs + 1 Onyx while not having either on our team. Can this be explained? Is it a matter of population and finding any match for them? Is it too early in the season for things to kind of flatten out for ranks and skill?

2) When we do play with our Plat friend, and we match against Onyx players or overall teams that completely outrank us, and we WIN, he seems to not gain much or any CSR in the process. Even when he wrecks and is one of the top players on the team. We all believe he should be higher rank than he is, but figured he'd win his way out of it quickly enough. Has this been addressed this season? Does the system think we're trying to boost him and reduce his CSR gains? It also feels like when he loses to a team that vastly outranks him, he will end up losing an unfair amount of CSR. It's like a constant losing battle for him either way and is very discouraging.

3) Does individual performance matter in a single match for CSR? Is there weighting for specific stats? The only thing I notice about our Plat friend is he doesn't always have tons of Damage or Medals. But we still win and he sees very little of the rewards.

4) When clearly playing against (or in) people in a group, does this affect CSR gains or loss?

5) It gets very frustrating when playing against 1-2 Onyxes and 1 Gold that average out to a D3, and the 2 Onyxes are more than enough to carry the team over us. Is there a reason this is allowed? Is it because of the population? Is there any talk about changing it so that groups can't be formed in Ranked Play of players a certain distance from each other rank/CSR wise? I feel like there are other options for these people to play Halo together (Social). Or maybe we can open Social Slayer to fireteams of more than 2?

Thanks for your time! Any info is appreciated! I don't mind being sent to other places to read about the topic. We're all very curious on how CSR works deep down. We just want to know how it is given and how matchmaking works for us since it has gotten pretty frustrating over time.
Matchmaking Onyx will depend on pop, yes. If you link me a match I can be more specific.

In-game performance has zero effect on the CSR update for that match. However, if they play better than expected, their MMR will go up and they will end up with extra CSR the next match.

But they have to maintain that. If they have a good match here and there, that's normal for any Plat player. A Plat player will even play like an Onyx in 5% of their matches or so. But that doesn't meant they deserve a Plat rank. They would need to consistently play like a better player to deserve that.

So the CSR system doesn't look at in-game perf at all. The MMR system does, but it doesn't do anything like, "I think they're being carried" it looks at how they perform within a match relative to what's expected. If they don't surprise it, the MMR does not move much.
One more thing, I'm seeing your own fairness over last 48 days has been 45%. So not perfect matchmaking (50%) but not awful.
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