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Matchmaking Update 3/17/2020

OP ZaedynFel

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James22301 wrote:
I feel like this quote about the current Halo 5 ranking system is written by someone who doesn’t play the game.

([Competitive Skill Rank] CSR not only helps reign in rank progress & gives a more controlled state to the visual reflection of our [TrueSkill] TS it also fulfills additional roles that....)

The current ranking system is very very far from being fair at all!!!!!!

1. I refuse to believe that Microsoft/343 is incapable of taking my statistics and rank me properly as a player. (Not only based on wins or lost games)
##We are in the age of AI and 343 can’t categorize
the players rank/metadata correctly???

2.There should be a way in Halo to only get mixed with players that have similar skills/stats/metadata.
(Gold with Gold/Platinum with Platinum etc.)
That would be fair!!!

3.Getting de-ranked with every season is not a pleasant experience as a Halo 5 player.
At all!!!!
Getting smashed by (normally) way higher ranked players with the start of every season is soul crushing!
(In my opinion!!!)
But thank you 343 by knowing what is best for me.
I don’t give a .... about my rank. Just make the game fair!!!! Is aaaaaaallll I am asking!!!!

Thank you!
You can provide some data points that you think show the system is unfair. Looks like it works pretty well to me and I definitely do play. The nature of the small population is going to lead to some hiccups, however.

Point #1..rankings uses kills and deaths per minute along with wins. Details are in the ranking FAQ thread.

Your point #2..the system does do that. If there aren’t enough players to make an ideal match it’s going to keep widening the parameters.
IGRS wrote:
IGRS wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
IGRS wrote:
IGRS wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
Both of you clearly don't understand the game and are only able to see what's on the surface/"paper". I'm done
The Champ you are claiming is boosting received absolutely zero CSR (rank) for that match, as was already explained to you.

In addition, the Plat player on their team played like a Gold player in terms of performance that match, so they didn't get any extra benefit from their teammate.

Since they were no benefits to the Champ in this situation, I see nothing outside of a Champ playing with a much worse teammate, and no form of boosting. I mean, what exactly was boosted? I see nothing.
Umm, we lost the match, so I sure hope the Champ to which I'm referring to didn't gain any CSR. Otherwise, the system would definitely be broken. Is it possible that you can check again? I'd like to get to the bottom of this, and if possible get it fixed...
He’s saying the winning team’s Champ didn’t gain CSR, and likely if your team had won — the champ on your team also wouldn’t go up. The losing team will always lose CSR
Have you been paying attention? I have no interest in the other Champ
Have you been paying attention? Your team lost..and the champ lost rank, what is your point?

The champ on your team was just playing with someone lower ranked — it’s been stated numerous times that’s not boosting. What I was saying is that even if your team won, he probably would have gained little/no csr just like the other champ.
My point is that the particular champ in question was only a Champ because (s)he uses the plat as a buffer. If that person actually solo queued, they would be a low to mid Onyx at best. I know a Champ when I see one and that just wasn't it. My other point is how broken this system is and how the system even allows this to happen. I also feel like there's a huge disparity between the people crunching the numbers and the people actually doing the work. Exp>
Using a Plat as a buffer does nothing because the system knows they are playing against weaker opponents and gives them nothing for it. When I compare that Champ's overall stats (kpm vs. other Champs, win% vs. other Champs, dpm vs. other Champs) they are definitely Champs. We have a lot more data to look at on that player's performance than you do. You can't get to Champ with a Plat because if you party with a Plat, you get 0 CSR when you win.

So, again, there's nothing to see here.
I've played with a Plat and it does give me CSR, so I don't understand how that works.

It makes sense that his stats are similar to other Champions when he gets easier games! What I'm saying is that if this person were to drop the Plat and play against a Champ lobby, even an Onyx lobby, he'd stick out like a sore thumb. Is there any way to conduct tests? Maybe reach out to that person and ask if he can play solo for 10 games and see what happens? Thanks for humoring me, by the way. I just know what I'm saying to be true. It happens all over MM and I'm tired of seeing it.
He’s saying that when he plays against champs, he plays as expected for a champ. Not that his stats are inflated because of easier games. Maybe it’s as simple as he plays better / is more engaged when the competition is better.
That doesn't even make sense. Do you even know what separates a Champ from an Onyx?
Not sure what you’re getting at. What better indication is there than if one performs well against other champs? And yes, I would hope so as I’ve made it in a couple playlists.
Yes, when I say "he plays like a Champ" I mean when I filter out all his games except those games where he is playing only against other Champs, his win%, kpm, dpm, etc., are all in line with Champ players.

I'm ignoring matches where he played against weaker opponents already.
Necesito saco de accion de vuelta eso era lo mejor
Necesito saco de accion de vuelta eso era lo mejor
Regresera de vez an cuando.
Hey ZaedynFel I have a question about the current ranking and if it is working as intended or if I am taking advantage of a loophole that might be caused by a lower population. Early in the season I was playing with my friends who are all high onyx/champ. I was stuck mid/high diamond for most of this time period. Recently I had gotten some friends who haven’t played much H5 to get into the game and I have personally been steamrolling players in these games. During this time I ranked up to onyx and am now sitting at 1550. Just curious how this is possible because I was under the impression that playing with lower skilled players would not show significant improvement in my rank even when I win.
Hey ZaedynFel I have a question about the current ranking and if it is working as intended or if I am taking advantage of a loophole that might be caused by a lower population. Early in the season I was playing with my friends who are all high onyx/champ. I was stuck mid/high diamond for most of this time period. Recently I had gotten some friends who haven’t played much H5 to get into the game and I have personally been steamrolling players in these games. During this time I ranked up to onyx and am now sitting at 1550. Just curious how this is possible because I was under the impression that playing with lower skilled players would not show significant improvement in my rank even when I win.
My perspective:

Playing with the less skilled individual friends ensures you’re also facing lesser skilled opponents. Being the best player in the match most often will lead to you not only dominate the vast majority of your 1-on-1 encounters, but it’ll also require you to carry a significant kill count load in match wins. I assume your pace of play and sizable kill loads are simply excelling beyond what the system had you pegged at based on your other match experiences against higher quality opponents.

To break it down further, your less skilled teammates just aren’t capable of earning anywhere near three quarters (3/4) of the required kill count in a match victory. This in turn sets you up to dominate match KPM (Kills-Per-Minute) and requires you to earn well above a quarter (1/4) of the required kill count to earn victories. Again, it appears you’ve been exceeding the system’s expectations it had for you and the team which were in-part based on its understanding of your performance with your very talented friends.

When you play with your very talented friends you likely struggle on two fronts:
  1. You just don’t possess the raw talent and skill capable of earning a quarter (1/4) of a winning match’s kill count on average. This is because your opponents, on average, are just going to be much more capable within the 1-on-1 encounters against you.

  2. Because of how talented your teammates are you’ve been struggling to keep pace with them. In other words, they’re the ones typically earning higher percentages of the kill count in match victories. Unfortunately for you their talent and in-turn performances can somewhat dilute your ability to demonstrate your full skill level potential to the system.
Perhaps what this boils down to and reflects is your change of play style and sense of confidence between the two teams. On one hand you somewhat know your limitations, so you probably slow your pace down a bit to limit making mistakes that may jeopardize your team’s chances at earning a victory. In other words, you try to smartly play a helpful support role in order to not cost your team the victory. On the other hand, when you play with your lesser skilled friends your play style reflects a noticeable boost in confidence and aggression because you believe you must carry the team on your shoulders to earn victories.

I suspect the system is simply perceiving your skill and talent under a different workload context and adjusting accordingly. Yes, because the opponents are less skilled you’re expected to perform way better in comparison, but in reality you’re managing to “do more” than what the system expected you of being capable of which in turn has allowed you to improve your rank.

I also suspect that you’ll never be able to go much further with your rank by playing with the lesser players primarily because there's only so much of the total kill count that you can reasonably be expected to handle. But, if you were able to raise your pace, aggression, and encounter success; in other words, increase your KPM without a dramatic rise in your DPM too, when playing with your talented friends while not noticeably sacrificing the team's win rate you’d not only reach the same visual skill level, but likely surpass it.
I appreciate the detailed response. I understand how the system works I was just under the impression the new system was designed to prevent “smurfing” as some would call it. I will always prefer to play with my higher skilled friends but I can see how some people would attempt to exploit this. Once again thanks for the response.
I appreciate the detailed response. I understand how the system works I was just under the impression the new system was designed to prevent “smurfing” as some would call it. I will always prefer to play with my higher skilled friends but I can see how some people would attempt to exploit this. Once again thanks for the response.
No problem.

Also, keep in mind that mid-high Diamond = a range of 1350-1499 (Diamond 4 - Diamond 6) and you’re now at Onyx 1550. That’s an increase of anywhere between 51-200 skill points, but do realize that in the typical ebb and flow of volatile match performances our MatchMake Rating (MMR), and to a lesser degree our CSR, can generally oscillate between +/- 150 points (possibly more for MMR), so it could just be that you’re currently experiencing a peak that’s been bolstered somewhat by an unsuspecting extra boost in your play-style & pace (relative to expectations) paired with a healthy number of match outcome successes.

In the end, Menke looking at your matches should be able to explain in much more detail what’s actually going on with your rank, but I don’t think what you’re experiencing and witnessing is unprecedented or outside a sense of some normalcy.
eLantern wrote:
I appreciate the detailed response. I understand how the system works I was just under the impression the new system was designed to prevent “smurfing” as some would call it. I will always prefer to play with my higher skilled friends but I can see how some people would attempt to exploit this. Once again thanks for the response.
No problem.

Also, keep in mind that mid-high Diamond = a range of 1350-1499 (Diamond 4 - Diamond 6) and you’re now at Onyx 1550. That’s an increase of anywhere between 51-200 skill points, but do realize that in the typical ebb and flow of volatile match performances our MatchMake Rating (MMR), and to a lesser degree our CSR, can generally oscillate between +/- 150 points (possibly more for MMR), so it could just be that you’re currently experiencing a peak that’s been bolstered somewhat by an unsuspecting extra boost in your play-style & pace (relative to expectations) paired with a healthy number of match outcome successes.

In the end, Menke looking at your matches should be able to explain in much more detail what’s actually going on with your rank, but I don’t think what your experiencing and witnessing is unprecedented or outside a sense of some normalcy.
In general, the system does account for the skill of your teammates and your opponents. If your rank rises a bit when you play with worse teammates, it likely means you play disproportionately better against Diamonds than you play against Onyx. So there is some aspect of the meta that you haven't mastered that is important once you get up to the Onyx level.

Because of this effect, the system will also drastically slow down how much farther you can go once you cross into Onyx because it prefers you to do well against actual Onyx players rather than just Diamonds in order to keep moving up.

The other possibility is more along the lines of eLantern's suggestion, which is that when you play with teammates much better than you, they really don't need you that much. So your actual performance contribution in those matches is only at the Diamond level even though you're an Onyx player. Basically, they just need a body in there that isn't terrible, but since you are so far behind them in skill, they suck up a lot more extra kills.

It's also possibly a combination of both things. If you understood the meta better in Onyx, you would be more valuable to your teammates, etc.
Global Double XP needs to be permanent imo. Either that or the Legendary XP boosts need to be brought back permanently at less of a REQ cost than Gold backs.
WOW, i just saw this but its great
I appreciate the response Menke. I would also like to add that halo has been my favorite game since I got halo 2 and my first xbox in 5th grade. I have grown with the franchise and Halo 5 is by far my favorite game of all time strictly because of how much fun I have playing multiplayer and how satisfying it is to do well. The teamwork, communication, map control, and then all of the options you have to strafe, thrust, and hit your shots is so satisfying. I also think the ranking system of Halo 5 is so much more rewarding than the 1-50 system and despite all of the ups and downs of the game I will always defend Halo 5 to the grave. I am looking forward to what y’all have in store for Infinite and I hope that the multiplayer captures a similar feel. So thanks guys for caring about the product you work to create and always being here to answer questions!
Hi everyone, my first post here. I've only been on Halo 5 for 9 months or so. At first it was just a fun way to keep in contact with a friend who lives in a different country.

Lately I've been taking it a little more seriously, probably too seriously. In terms of CSR, I was under the impression that once you went to the next tier, you couldn't drop back down. I was platinum 1 in the beginning of the season, and after a string of bad matches dropped to gold 6.

I know you can drop levels within a tier because it happens to me all the time. Can you also drop tiers now? Thanks for the help.
AlvinLC wrote:
Hi everyone, my first post here. I've only been on Halo 5 for 9 months or so. At first it was just a fun way to keep in contact with a friend who lives in a different country.

Lately I've been taking it a little more seriously, probably too seriously. In terms of CSR, I was under the impression that once you went to the next tier, you couldn't drop back down. I was platinum 1 in the beginning of the season, and after a string of bad matches dropped to gold 6.

I know you can drop levels within a tier because it happens to me all the time. Can you also drop tiers now? Thanks for the help.
Yes. Tier dropping was a change they made a long time ago. I believe that change occurred within the 1st year post-release if I remember correctly.
eLantern wrote:
AlvinLC wrote:
Hi everyone, my first post here. I've only been on Halo 5 for 9 months or so. At first it was just a fun way to keep in contact with a friend who lives in a different country.

Lately I've been taking it a little more seriously, probably too seriously. In terms of CSR, I was under the impression that once you went to the next tier, you couldn't drop back down. I was platinum 1 in the beginning of the season, and after a string of bad matches dropped to gold 6.

I know you can drop levels within a tier because it happens to me all the time. Can you also drop tiers now? Thanks for the help.
Yes. Tier dropping was a change they made a long time ago. I believe that change occurred within the 1st year post-release if I remember correctly.
Thank you for the quick reply, I thought I was going crazy. Everything I read online since that happened still says that once a new level was reached, you couldn't be dropped down with the exception of champion and the like.

It looks like I'll just have to find some more people to play with that play seriously but for fun. I know everyone has bad days, but It's aggravating playing with people who be seem to want the team to lose.
AlvinLC wrote:
eLantern wrote:
AlvinLC wrote:
Hi everyone, my first post here. I've only been on Halo 5 for 9 months or so. At first it was just a fun way to keep in contact with a friend who lives in a different country.

Lately I've been taking it a little more seriously, probably too seriously. In terms of CSR, I was under the impression that once you went to the next tier, you couldn't drop back down. I was platinum 1 in the beginning of the season, and after a string of bad matches dropped to gold 6.

I know you can drop levels within a tier because it happens to me all the time. Can you also drop tiers now? Thanks for the help.
Yes. Tier dropping was a change they made a long time ago. I believe that change occurred within the 1st year post-release if I remember correctly.
Thank you for the quick reply, I thought I was going crazy. Everything I read online since that happened still says that once a new level was reached, you couldn't be dropped down with the exception of champion and the like.

It looks like I'll just have to find some more people to play with that play seriously but for fun. I know everyone has bad days, but It's aggravating playing with people who be seem to want the team to lose.
I would recommend keeping your mic on during games and to call out your enemies on the map. Even if you do not hear anybody sometimes your teammates are listening and they may turn their mic on and start communicating with you. I have one other friend irl who is serious about h5 but over time we have filled out our friends list with a lot of really good players that we have met from just being in a game together and partying up after. However if you do not have a mic and use it during the game we would never invite you to our team. That’s just the way it is.
AlvinLC wrote:
eLantern wrote:
AlvinLC wrote:
Hi everyone, my first post here. I've only been on Halo 5 for 9 months or so. At first it was just a fun way to keep in contact with a friend who lives in a different country.

Lately I've been taking it a little more seriously, probably too seriously. In terms of CSR, I was under the impression that once you went to the next tier, you couldn't drop back down. I was platinum 1 in the beginning of the season, and after a string of bad matches dropped to gold 6.

I know you can drop levels within a tier because it happens to me all the time. Can you also drop tiers now? Thanks for the help.
Yes. Tier dropping was a change they made a long time ago. I believe that change occurred within the 1st year post-release if I remember correctly.
Thank you for the quick reply, I thought I was going crazy. Everything I read online since that happened still says that once a new level was reached, you couldn't be dropped down with the exception of champion and the like.

It looks like I'll just have to find some more people to play with that play seriously but for fun. I know everyone has bad days, but It's aggravating playing with people who be seem to want the team to lose.
I would recommend keeping your mic on during games and to call out your enemies on the map. Even if you do not hear anybody sometimes your teammates are listening and they may turn their mic on and start communicating with you. I have one other friend irl who is serious about h5 but over time we have filled out our friends list with a lot of really good players that we have met from just being in a game together and partying up after. However if you do not have a mic and use it during the game we would never invite you to our team. That’s just the way it is.
I agree, communication is vital in the game. My mentioned friend who I started playing because, I won't play ranked with him because he refuses to stay with the team. Communication for him is limited to cursing about non-existent lag and how he really got them first.

I've met some great people just in social slayer. The best random who is now a friend wasn't necessarily doing call outs, but talking and keeping positive throughout. Getting slaughtered from the beginning, we came back from 32 to 45 for a win.

I don't want to make it seem like I came posting looking for a team or good ranked players to game with. Good to know I can drop levels and that others agree that communication, even if just one way is crucial to good game play.
Why the hell is Halo 2 gone AGAIN... man holy -Yoink-. Just put every playlist in and let people choose where they go. It was in what? maybe a month? Gone for 3...
Festerguts wrote:
Why the hell is Halo 2 gone AGAIN... man holy -Yoink-. Just put every playlist in and let people choose where they go. It was in what? maybe a month? Gone for 3...
This thread is for H5. You'd want the MCC forum.
Can we get a rank check?

I really don't understand how this happens?

Checked on him because of this game, btw.
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