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[Locked] Matchmaking Update: Spring 2020 Season

OP ZaedynFel

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Spring 2020 Season Changes

We are making a few subtle changes to how rank updates work for the Spring 2020 Season based on feedback and tracking experiences over time:

  • We heard a lot of feedback around a winning team gaining little CSR if a player on the losing team quits. We are making a change so players on the winning team will still get the full amount of CSR when a loser quits early. The data show that quitting is usually a form of surrender caused by the winning team’s actions, so the winners should get full credit. As a side effect, however, a winning team will not get extra CSR for winning with quitters on their own team. We found that they are already getting the right amount of CSR and giving extra for having a quitter was introducing an incorrect amount of inflation.
  • We feel players still appreciate losing less CSR on a loss when they have a quitter on their own team, so we will be keeping that behavior with one exception. Based on feedback about players intentionally quitting out of parties to avoid CSR loss, we are making it so that quitters in the same party will not prevent the usual loss of CSR. So players who have party members quit for them will still lose full CSR. We feel this will place a higher value on party play and winning in general.
  • We have heard feedback that climbing the ladder in Onyx can be so fast that it lowers the value of the higher ranks. To improve this, we will test having Onyx and above gain and lose less CSR per match. Instead of a max of 30 CSR gain and lost per match, it will be 10 once a player reaches Onyx. This will give them more time to earn their ranks, and result in smaller swings both up and down when there are streaks. It will give an overall more accurate CSR for our better players and increase the value of the higher ranks in Onyx.
  • We have heard feedback that if Onyx players party with much lower-skilled players, it can be easy in some playlists to climb the Onyx ranks without actually playing Onyx opponents. Starting in Spring Season, Onyx and above will receive diminishing CSR amounts the farther their skills are from the rest of their party. This will allow Onyx players to party with worse friends without worrying about large CSR losses. It also encourages Onyx players to party with other Onyx players or play solo if they want to climb the ladder efficiently.

We will also raise the minimum CSR for Champion from 1500 to 1600 because the change in progress through Onyx results in a lot of not-really-Champ-Champs otherwise.

We hope these changes will make climbing the ranks a more engaging experience while increasing the integrity and value of the ranks.

Thanks for playing, and we’ll be greatly interested in future feedback!
I 100% support all of this. About time! ❤️🤙🏻
  • What a shame that winning a 3v4 won't be rewarded. While there are cases that the winners in this particular outcome would have still won regardless, in itself it is still a feat and should be rewarded. Do you know how hard it is to win a 3v4 when you're down in numbers? You're constantly getting collapsed on and split spawn. It's ridiculous to hear such a thing.
  • It is greatly appreciated that this is finally going to happen. I recently saw someone get Champ 1 like this.
  • 10 is such a low and milky number. Why not 25?
  • Can you expand on your 4th point? Are we talking wins, loses, both?
  • Also, can we please do something about AFKers now? Three minutes is way too much time. I've seen matches be over in about that time. There's no time for a comeback after that. I think 1:20 or at the maximum amount 2 minutes to kick inactive players.
  • While I'm on this subject, can we please do something about AFKers who just move around in the same exact spot for that same amount of time so they won't get kicked? I was thinking something like the Head to Head playlist, but instead of hearing that noise or giving away your location, they get kicked
This all sounds positive, hopefully this will bring the population backup and become more fun to play like when Halo 5 first started.
D M4N8 wrote:
  • What a shame that winning a 3v4 won't be rewarded. While there are cases that the winners in this particular outcome would have still won regardless, in itself it is still a feat and should be rewarded. Do you know how hard it is to win a 3v4 when you're down in numbers? You're constantly getting collapsed on and split spawn. It's ridiculous to hear such a thing.
If it was not this way, a party of 4 could have 1 super-low ranked account skew the matchmaking so that their opponent team's average skill is less than it should be. Then that low-ranked account could quit and the remaining 3 players could still be good enough to make up the player deficit. Then they'd get extra CSR for winning the match while down a man. I imagine this sort of manipulation was in mind at least partly when deciding to not award extra CSR for winning 3v4 scenarios. While it ends up also lumping in legit 3v4 wins, I think the integrity of the ranks was more important to them. Hopefully the other changes will discourage quitting further so that 3v4 matches occur less often.
I 100% agree with this change ZaedynFel; the inflation of CSR from players quitting has been constantly a thing that needed to be changed, though I think something that will compliment this new system would be a change in search times vs large parties & MMR.

Since pops in ranked playlist are getting smaller each season, players who run in teams definitely struggle to get matches depending upon the Team's MMR during search times; this seems to be a very common con as it discourages players with high ranking MMR from playing with each other only having four options: Smurfing an account until they can't find a game, continuous searching until a game is found, split the lobby to get matches, or just stop playing entirely. A point system that is being decreased from winning or losing a maximum of 30 to 10 CSR will change only little of the conflict. Players or smurfs who have a Lower MMR than the lobby who are winning a game constantly can still fly through the ranks but just at a slower pace which isn't fair to high-tier players with High MMR because that small percentage of players have trouble progressing due to the punishment of team balancing due to MMR and how brutal CSR loss is. A player with a High MMR can constantly lose 10 CSR for a match and gain very little CSR since most of the matches "THEY ARE EXPECTED TOWIN" and due to significant carrying of low-experienced teammates.

To remove this heavy conflict, players who run matchmaking with a stacked fireteam in terms of MMR, should be able to search with each other but under one condition: If the teams can not find a match in 2 or 3 minutes, the system should expand win/loss percentage until players are able to find a match against players with comparable CSR other than MMR. In short, CSR will take over searching priorities after a certain time limit instead of MMR and if that can't work then the MMR gap after a certain time limit will expand but not expand out to a point that seems unreasonable such as a champ team matching against a diamond team. With the combination of the new point system in Spring Season 2020, players will be likely to continue running due to CSR Gain/Loss as it will be a grind to get champ but get to enjoy a better experience as they are able to search with their friends. This provides a compromise inside of mid to high tier MMR players without causing and discouraging low-tier MMR players matching high-tier players. Also, this system can also work for Mid to Low tier players.

I highly consider this; there has been a huge conflict with matchmaking matches and to have this component fixed along with the point system would increase a better MM experience.
Chimera30 wrote:
D M4N8 wrote:
  • What a shame that winning a 3v4 won't be rewarded. While there are cases that the winners in this particular outcome would have still won regardless, in itself it is still a feat and should be rewarded. Do you know how hard it is to win a 3v4 when you're down in numbers? You're constantly getting collapsed on and split spawn. It's ridiculous to hear such a thing.
If it was not this way, a party of 4 could have 1 super-low ranked account skew the matchmaking so that their opponent team's average skill is less than it should be. Then that low-ranked account could quit and the remaining 3 players could still be good enough to make up the player deficit. Then they'd get extra CSR for winning the match while down a man. I imagine this sort of manipulation was in mind at least partly when deciding to not award extra CSR for winning 3v4 scenarios. While it ends up also lumping in legit 3v4 wins, I think the integrity of the ranks was more important to them. Hopefully the other changes will discourage quitting further so that 3v4 matches occur less often.
I would have to agree with this change, but it sounds like it's not exactly this way. If your gain was only limited while you were searching in a to2 or greater, then I'd have to agree, but it's not. From the sound of it, it also affects solo queuing.

The only thing effect should be within your fireteam, not outside of it.
Yess!!! Now the only thing left to do is to PLLLEAAASSEEE throw in 3-4 more maps into team slayer at least! Either ones from recent community slayer or bring back overgrowth, tyrant, molten, Orion II, riptide. When you add these new maps in, please don’t remove maps that are Currently already in the playlist!!!

I know I’m not the only one who wants more maps to be in the playlist(s). I feel like since halo five is not in tournaments or HCS isn’t participating anymore that this should be an easier task to complete. Variety is the spice of life, as they say. ZaedynFel
Thank god! The winning team gets credit lol we'll see how the rest fairs throughout the update. Gonna suck when someone in your party lags out and you get hit with a full loss but it's the only way to really combat people cheesing the system. Unless you track how many times a certain party has someone quit out or something, which seems like more work than it's worth.
Great changes
We need less restrictions in WZ based on skill level. The players who play regularly are punished for their skill and cannot find games, or are placed into a match which is half full most of the time.
My experience is that the people that quit while playing on a losing team are having a really bad game and rather than tough out the match for some diminished xp, they quit out hoping the remaing players might have a better chance for a win. However, I believe in a lot of cases the people that quit on a winning team are doing so to boost their friend's climb in the ranks. I'm sure 343 has all the tools, staff, and experience to look at this and many things we dont even consider when trying to improve the ranking system. I applaud them for continuing to work for the population and keeping halo 5 more than relavent this far in the game's life cycle. Thanks 343!
@ZaedynFel

These are some pragmatically smart changes. Thank you.

Glad you finally moved the requirement to earn Champ away from 1500 and settled on 1600. I know in the past you were concerned that you may not get 200 Champs if the requirement was moved further out than the entry level for Onyx. May I ask what changed your mind because it didn't seem like my previous arguments for that type of change were enough to persuade you to make it in light of the potential cons?

I'd sure love to hear that the max rank-in limit also received a bump. I remain adamant that it should get bumped up from 1300 to 1400 to help further minimize perception confusions which are particularly rampant early-on in a new season. That bump should pair well with the new Onyx CSR adjustment of +/- 10 to ensure there remains a decent rank grind to initially earn a Champ label as well as to maintain it or improve within.

Under the previous method the least amount of matches to earn a Champ label (at the onset of a new season) would require a minimum of 7 matches. Of course, it meant earning the max CSR gain each match. With the current changes the least amount of matches to earn a Champ label (at the onset of a new season) requires a minimum of 17 matches. Bumping the max rank-in to 1400 instead of having it at 1300 still requires a minimum of 14 matches at the max CSR gain to earn a Champ label (at the onset of a new season). A max rank-in of 1400 still provides a noticeable increase to the grind from what's been the norm for some time, but it also helps reduce the potential for players to be confused by post-match visual rank perceptions in the PGCRs.

D M4N8 wrote:
  • Also, can we please do something about AFKers now? Three minutes is way too much time. I've seen matches be over in about that time. There's no time for a comeback after that. I think 1:20 or at the maximum amount 2 minutes to kick inactive players.
I agree that 2 minutes should be the max before getting the auto boot.
eLantern wrote:
@ZaedynFelThese are some pragmatically smart changes. Thank you.

Glad you finally moved the requirement to earn Champ away from 1500 and settled on 1600. I know in the past you were concerned that you may not get 200 Champs if the requirement was moved further out than the entry level for Onyx. May I ask what changed your mind because it didn't seem like my previous arguments for that type of change were enough to persuade you to make it in light of the potential cons?

I'd sure love to hear that the max rank-in limit also received a bump. I remain adamant that it should get bumped up from 1300 to 1400 to help further minimize perception confusions which are particularly rampant early-on in a new season. That bump should pair well with the new Onyx CSR adjustment of +/- 10 to ensure there remains a decent rank grind to initially earn a Champ label as well as to maintain it or improve within.

Under the previous method the least amount of matches to earn a Champ label (at the onset of a new season) would require a minimum of 7 matches. Of course, it meant earning the max CSR gain each match. With the current changes the least amount of matches to earn a Champ label (at the onset of a new season) requires a minimum of 17 matches. Bumping the max rank-in to 1400 instead of having it at 1300 still requires a minimum of 14 matches at the max CSR gain to earn a Champ label (at the onset of a new season). A max rank-in of 1400 still provides a noticeable increase to the grind, but it also helps reduce the potential for players to be confused by post-match visual rank perceptions.

D M4N8 wrote:
  • Also, can we please do something about AFKers now? Three minutes is way too much time. I've seen matches be over in about that time. There's no time for a comeback after that. I think 1:20 or at the maximum amount 2 minutes to kick inactive players.
I agree that 2 minutes should be the max before getting the auto boot.
The reasons for going to 1600 are in the post. With Champs gaining at most +10 per win, it will take them longer to move up to the top and push out the 1500-rated Champs. The 1500-rated Champs usually only last a week or so in active playlists, but with the slower movement, this could potentially go on quite a bit longer than it does today. Today's balance works OK, but we wanted to make the earning Champ more significant than in the past.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Spring 2020 Season Changes We are making a few subtle changes to how rank updates work for the Spring 2020 Season based on feedback and tracking experiences over time:
  • We heard a lot of feedback around a winning team gaining little CSR if a player on the losing team quits. We are making a change so players on the winning team will still get the full amount of CSR when a loser quits early. The data show that quitting is usually a form of surrender caused by the winning team’s actions, so the winners should get full credit. As a side effect, however, a winning team will not get extra CSR for winning with quitters on their own team. We found that they are already getting the right amount of CSR and giving extra for having a quitter was introducing an incorrect amount of inflation.
  • We feel players still appreciate losing less CSR on a loss when they have a quitter on their own team, so we will be keeping that behavior with one exception. Based on feedback about players intentionally quitting out of parties to avoid CSR loss, we are making it so that quitters in the same party will not prevent the usual loss of CSR. So players who have party members quit for them will still lose full CSR. We feel this will place a higher value on party play and winning in general.
  • We have heard feedback that climbing the ladder in Onyx can be so fast that it lowers the value of the higher ranks. To improve this, we will test having Onyx and above gain and lose less CSR per match. Instead of a max of 30 CSR gain and lost per match, it will be 10 once a player reaches Onyx. This will give them more time to earn their ranks, and result in smaller swings both up and down when there are streaks. It will give an overall more accurate CSR for our better players and increase the value of the higher ranks in Onyx.
  • We have heard feedback that if Onyx players party with much lower-skilled players, it can be easy in some playlists to climb the Onyx ranks without actually playing Onyx opponents. Starting in Spring Season, Onyx and above will receive diminishing CSR amounts the farther their skills are from the rest of their party. This will allow Onyx players to party with worse friends without worrying about large CSR losses. It also encourages Onyx players to party with other Onyx players or play solo if they want to climb the ladder efficiently.
We will also raise the minimum CSR for Champion from 1500 to 1600 because the change in progress through Onyx results in a lot of not-really-Champ-Champs otherwise.
We hope these changes will make climbing the ranks a more engaging experience while increasing the integrity and value of the ranks.
Thanks for playing, and we’ll be greatly interested in future feedback!
Hell yeah bro
ZaedynFel wrote:
eLantern wrote:
@ZaedynFelThese are some pragmatically smart changes. Thank you.

Glad you finally moved the requirement to earn Champ away from 1500 and settled on 1600. I know in the past you were concerned that you may not get 200 Champs if the requirement was moved further out than the entry level for Onyx. May I ask what changed your mind because it didn't seem like my previous arguments for that type of change were enough to persuade you to make it in light of the potential cons?

I'd sure love to hear that the max rank-in limit also received a bump. I remain adamant that it should get bumped up from 1300 to 1400 to help further minimize perception confusions which are particularly rampant early-on in a new season. That bump should pair well with the new Onyx CSR adjustment of +/- 10 to ensure there remains a decent rank grind to initially earn a Champ label as well as to maintain it or improve within.

Under the previous method the least amount of matches to earn a Champ label (at the onset of a new season) would require a minimum of 7 matches. Of course, it meant earning the max CSR gain each match. With the current changes the least amount of matches to earn a Champ label (at the onset of a new season) requires a minimum of 17 matches. Bumping the max rank-in to 1400 instead of having it at 1300 still requires a minimum of 14 matches at the max CSR gain to earn a Champ label (at the onset of a new season). A max rank-in of 1400 still provides a noticeable increase to the grind, but it also helps reduce the potential for players to be confused by post-match visual rank perceptions.

D M4N8 wrote:
  • Also, can we please do something about AFKers now? Three minutes is way too much time. I've seen matches be over in about that time. There's no time for a comeback after that. I think 1:20 or at the maximum amount 2 minutes to kick inactive players.
I agree that 2 minutes should be the max before getting the auto boot.
The reasons for going to 1600 are in the post. With Champs gaining at most +10 per win, it will take them longer to move up to the top and push out the 1500-rated Champs. The 1500-rated Champs usually only last a week or so in active playlists, but with the slower movement, this could potentially go on quite a bit longer than it does today. Today's balance works OK, but we wanted to make the earning Champ more significant than in the past.
The reason you gave in your OP reflects much of the same reasoning I gave in the past for bumping up the max placement rank cap; however, you did signify back then that your engagement metrics suggested a satisfaction or acceptance with the amount of confusion as well as the grind time to earn Champ.

Oh, and with the Champ barrier getting set at 1600 there won't be any 1500-1599 Onyx "Champs" anymore. Though, I suppose some of the generally upper 1500-ish MMR players could manage to (maybe temporarily) sneak their MMR into the lower 1600 territory and potentially earn a Champ label for a time before getting squeezed out by 200 more skilled players if that's what you mean by 1500-rated Champs.

I do agree though that this change helps make the Champ label more prestigious than its been for some time. Admittedly, it has been something I've wanted to see for awhile, but I understood your previous position that was against raising it from 1500 because it might prevent a playlist from actually having 200 Champs due to the less healthy population levels. It's also why I suggested a compromise of 1550 for a time. Anyways, it just seems like that reasoning has been put aside now for a different perspective. One in which I was advocating for because I do believe it brings more integrity to the ranks and lessens the potential for players to be confused or frustrated when looking at ranks in the PGCRs.

Like I said, it is this very same reasoning that has me advocating for the increase to the max placement rank cap to Diamond 5 (1400) instead of Diamond 3 (1300). Previously, your counter-argument to that suggestion was that it would remove too much of the invested grind time to earn Champ, but with the 1600 Champ barrier and the Onyx CSR adjustment changes (+/- 10) the grind time is still nonetheless increased from what your previous engagement metrics suggested were minimally required or perceived as ideal, so I don't see any reason NOT to make that change this coming season as well.
A bit off the main topic, but a BIG THANK YOU for bring back Mythic Arena on March 5.
It's the only way to make progress on the Company Commendation for Assault wins.
If this is going to stay rotational, I'd love it if it came back every second month.

  • February: Double XP in Doubles all month
  • February: Mythic Rumble replaces default Free-For-All in February
  • February 20: Grifball rotates in for Community Slayer
  • February 27: Action Sack rotates in for Grifball
  • February 27: Warzone Turbo goes live for the weekend
  • March 5: Spring 2020 Arena Season begins
  • March 5: Mythic Arena rotates into Ranked for March
  • March 5: H2 BR Slayer rotates in for Action Sack
  • March 12: Castle Wars rotates in for H2 BR Slayer
  • March 12: Warzone Assault goes live for the weekend
  • March 19: Triple Team rotates in for Castle Wars
  • March 26: Core Play rotates in for Triple Team
  • March 26: Warzone Turbo goes live for the weekend
Quote:
This will allow Onyx players to party with worse friends without worrying about large CSR losses.
This is great, thank you!
AshamanND wrote:
A bit off the main topic, but a BIG THANK YOU for bring back Mythic Arena on March 5.
It's the only way to make progress on the Company Commendation for Assault wins.
If this is going to stay rotational, I'd love it if it came back every second month.
It is a shame that the Big Team Assault mode doesn't also qualify for the Company Commendations for Assault Wins.
eLantern wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
A bit off the main topic, but a BIG THANK YOU for bring back Mythic Arena on March 5.
It's the only way to make progress on the Company Commendation for Assault wins.
If this is going to stay rotational, I'd love it if it came back every second month.
It is a shame that the Big Team Assault modes doesn't also qualify for the Company Commendations for Assault Wins.
I 100% agree - and I feel like it should be patched to allow the 8v8 variant to count...
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