Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

[Locked] Matchmaking Update: Spring 2020 Season

OP ZaedynFel

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ProdiJoe wrote:
Love the update. Big step in the right direction. One thing that absolutely needs addressed though is CSR lost through lagging out. I know some cases maybe a player who appears to lag out should still receive a loss But I had a case today where I was working hard through several games to rank up... I lagged out of the server while winning 4-0 and about to get the last kill. I lost more CSR than I gained from the last 7 games(all wins). Please fix.
Yeah, but the problem is they don't know the difference between an actual lag-out and someone rage pulling their internet cord out from the wall.
The system should take into account whether the person who quit out was on the winning team or not. It's not my fault the server lagged and booted me. It happens a lot in halo 5 im sure other plauers here have had the whole game lag out before.
Other games like rocket league let you join a game that u have lagged out of and report servers that seem to have problems. Then there are games like smite that wont let you play in any other matches when u have a match in progress that you quit from, instead it puts you back in the match. These are great mechanics that we would all love to have in halo. another thing that would save frustration being in a match that ppl cant quit out of is a forfeit option(both RL and Smite have this option). Its 2020 these changes are vital.
Like I said I do like the update and prefer this over the way it was before. BUT there are still problems that need addressed and it would be a shame if I didnt try to explain my thoughts wants and desires of the mm system. And does the game really need to take away 30 csr when I lag out of a win while the suposed Max loss is 10csr?
ProdiJoe wrote:
The system should take into account whether the person who quit out was on the winning team or not. It's not my fault the server lagged and booted me. It happens a lot in halo 5 im sure other plauers here have had the whole game lag out before.
Other games like rocket league let you join a game that u have lagged out of and report servers that seem to have problems. Then there are games like smite that wont let you play in any other matches when u have a match in progress that you quit from, instead it puts you back in the match. These are great mechanics that we would all love to have in halo. another thing that would save frustration being in a match that ppl cant quit out of is a forfeit option(both RL and Smite have this option). Its 2020 these changes are vital.
Like I said I do like the update and prefer this over the way it was before. BUT there are still problems that need addressed and it would be a shame if I didnt try to explain my thoughts wants and desires of the mm system. And does the game really need to take away 30 csr when I lag out of a win while the suposed Max loss is 10csr?
While ranked is a different story - as far as I know social has it where if you lag/quit out of a match, and then go back into MM, you get put back in the same game.
So for some reason it’s happened to me and my buddy. We lost 1 match and lost 30 csr they were different games I lost 30 csr today in doubles and like 3 days ago he lost 30 csr in slayer and it takes a bit now to earn that back so I’m just curious as to why it happening? Can anyone help out?
D M4N8 wrote:
eLantern wrote:
D M4N8 wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
Chimera30 wrote:
I'd really like to know why I got Diamond 1 after my placement matches. Do DNFs really affect you that much? I lagged out, but I'm not seeing how it is my fault?

I've done worse and still gotten D3 right off the bat.
You say you lagged out, but the system doesn’t know if it was a legit disconnect or whether you ripped out your Ethernet or turned off your router. It has to treat all DNFs the same.
I get that. Still doesn't answer my question...
Your starting position is always going to be:
  • (MMR before 10th match) - 100
MMR is affected by quitting and also by your in-match performance.

At the end of game 9, your MMR was Diamond 3, so your CSR will start Diamond 1.
This is interesting.

Also, what about game 10? Was game 10 just thrown out of the window?
It's the 1 match lag within the formula regarding MMR.

As you complete match 10 you earn your CSR rank which is 100 back of your MMR, but the MMR being used to calculate your CSR is pre-match.
What do you mean by 1 match lag?
HERE I breakdown how the CSR formula works.

The reason there's a lag is because the CSR system uses pre-match MMR within its formula. That means you're individual performance and match outcome that affect your MMR aren't realized within the formula until the following match. But, the fact that match outcomes have hardset rules related to positive and negative adjustments toward the CSR grants them an ability to capture an element of a player's likely performance adjustment post-match.

Mind you that there have been some adjustments recently as to the amount of CSR adjustment that can occur within the Onyx tier and in regards to the effect that's created by quitters. Max adjustment within Onyx is no longer +/- 30, it's +/- 10.
Hey guys i keep winning my swat games but never went up in csr i was diamond 1 should have moved up to diamond 2 can you please fix this for me thanks
Hey guys i keep winning my swat games but never went up in csr i was diamond 1 should have moved up to diamond 2 can you please fix this for me thanks
You're playing like a Plat player so you won't see yourself in Diamond very often.

Your last win you had 2 middle-ish Diamonds on your team, and beat a mostly Plat team. That's not going to net you much CSR as a Platinum player.
One issue that has been brought to my attention is that in certain instances where an onyx wins a match they do not get any car reward and I was just wondering if 343 was going to address this issue or if it was intended. I think that they should at least go up 1 car point that way the game does not feel like a waste of time and effort
Xomet wrote:
One issue that has been brought to my attention is that in certain instances where an onyx wins a match they do not get any car reward and I was just wondering if 343 was going to address this issue or if it was intended. I think that they should at least go up 1 car point that way the game does not feel like a waste of time and effort
We may tweak that. But it's intentional for Onyx players who have low-skilled teammates to not move much, largely because they aren't playing vs. Onyx teams when that happens.
The matchmaking, atleast in my experience, seems to prefer that I solo que if I want to move up the ranks. This is just demotivating for me. I played all day with a friend and would barely get out of diamon 3/4 only to lose everything from 1 or 2 losses. I played maybe 10 games in solo que and felt it relativley effortless to get to onyx.
I do enjoy that their needs to be a grind to earn rank but I'm not going to play the game if I cant rank up along side my friends. I do have a sneaking suspicion that my gameplay was worse due to the servers the mm was finding for us, but if thats the case then those servers should be addressed or let us pick a few preferred servers.
My friend who has amazing games all the time even against champ and onyx moved 0csr up or down in rank. . . . And why is this??? because the mm wants me to be diamond 3 when we match together? Its so frustrating. Plz fix so we can enjoy playing this great game again.
ProdiJoe wrote:
The matchmaking, atleast in my experience, seems to prefer that I solo que if I want to move up the ranks. This is just demotivating for me. I played all day with a friend and would barely get out of diamon 3/4 only to lose everything from 1 or 2 losses. I played maybe 10 games in solo que and felt it relativley effortless to get to onyx.
I do enjoy that their needs to be a grind to earn rank but I'm not going to play the game if I cant rank up along side my friends. I do have a sneaking suspicion that my gameplay was worse due to the servers the mm was finding for us, but if thats the case then those servers should be addressed or let us pick a few preferred servers.
My friend who has amazing games all the time even against champ and onyx moved 0csr up or down in rank. . . . And why is this??? because the mm wants me to be diamond 3 when we match together? Its so frustrating. Plz fix so we can enjoy playing this great game again.
Nothing changed affects you when you are Diamond.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Xomet wrote:
One issue that has been brought to my attention is that in certain instances where an onyx wins a match they do not get any car reward and I was just wondering if 343 was going to address this issue or if it was intended. I think that they should at least go up 1 car point that way the game does not feel like a waste of time and effort
We may tweak that. But it's intentional for Onyx players who have low-skilled teammates to not move much, largely because they aren't playing vs. Onyx teams when that happens.
But they can not determine who they match against and should not be essentially punished for winning by not gaining csr
Is Husky Raid at a low weighting and could it be if it's not? It's the last thing I want to play when I go into the Fiesta playlist.
LUKEPOWA wrote:
Is Husky Raid at a low weighting and could it be if it's not? It's the last thing I want to play when I go into the Fiesta playlist.
If just Slayer is your preferred Fiesta mode why not play more BTSF?

I understand there’s vehicles and different maps; plus, more players, but it effectively provides just the Super Fiesta Slayer mode.
CheezyBen wrote:
Can someone please tell me what new maps they are adding into the regular Slayer Arena ranked playlist for March?
I thought they were adding formats but so far I’ve played 10 games and not seeing any but I’ve heard from others that at least one is in slayer and that is full metal I was under the impression that there would be four which would include Fullmetal fever pitch transit and hourglass.
Thank you.

I've noticed they've added 2 new forge maps. The city style one and the military base one with the pelican.
Xomet wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
Xomet wrote:
One issue that has been brought to my attention is that in certain instances where an onyx wins a match they do not get any car reward and I was just wondering if 343 was going to address this issue or if it was intended. I think that they should at least go up 1 car point that way the game does not feel like a waste of time and effort
We may tweak that. But it's intentional for Onyx players who have low-skilled teammates to not move much, largely because they aren't playing vs. Onyx teams when that happens.
But they can not determine who they match against and should not be essentially punished for winning by not gaining csr
I'm sorry, but both of your points are incorrect.

Because of matchmaking, if an Onyx player parties with a worse player they will face weaker opponents, so they can absolutely determine who they match.That's fine for friends playing together, but not fine for ranking.

The data show there are many players who play as if they are Champs when they face mid-Diamond players, but when they play against actual other Champs and Onyx players, they do worse than they should be doing if they really deserve to be Onyx.

For example, Onyx players on average win 50% of the time vs. other Onyx players, and have around 1.5 kills per minute. They have 2.0 kills per minute against a Diamond team. But, there are players who have 2.0 kpm against Diamonds, but win only 30% against actual Onyx teams, and have 1.7 kpm against Onyx instead of the usual 2.0. Those players will "look" Onyx when they play Diamonds, but don't actually deserve an Onyx rank.

But if a "fake Onyx" player constantly parties with weaker friends, they never face Onyx players, and with CSR effectively a weighted-average across your performances, they would have an undeserved Onyx CSR.

That concept can be carried all the way up to Champ 1, where we have had players who definitely don't deserve being top Champs getting there by only playing Plats/Low-Diamonds. This prevents that appropriately.

It's not a punishment. Punishment would imply some artificially reduced CSR. This isn't artificial, this is just a correction back to what the rank should have been anyways.

In addition, if you queue without anyone in your party and still face Diamond opponents, the system does not discount your CSR and you will get the usual update. So in cases where you truly have no influence on who you match, you will get the full update (solo queue).

Furthermore, I will likely put a tweak in so that if you party up with a weaker opponent but still face opponents stronger than your party's skill anyways, it won't discount the update.

Stay tuned for more info. I will update the first post if / when tweaks go live.
LUKEPOWA wrote:
Is Husky Raid at a low weighting and could it be if it's not? It's the last thing I want to play when I go into the Fiesta playlist.
No, they are around equally weighted, and they are weighted by match length. Both are equally popular.
eLantern wrote:
If just Slayer is your preferred Fiesta mode why not play more BTSF?
I couldn't get a game of BTSF.
I just wanted to say that my last 20 games solo queu i only won maybe 5 or 6 time due to my bad teamtate (or bad matchmaking system).

:(
ZaedynFel wrote:
Xomet wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
Xomet wrote:
One issue that has been brought to my attention is that in certain instances where an onyx wins a match they do not get any car reward and I was just wondering if 343 was going to address this issue or if it was intended. I think that they should at least go up 1 car point that way the game does not feel like a waste of time and effort
We may tweak that. But it's intentional for Onyx players who have low-skilled teammates to not move much, largely because they aren't playing vs. Onyx teams when that happens.
But they can not determine who they match against and should not be essentially punished for winning by not gaining csr
I'm sorry, but both of your points are incorrect.

Because of matchmaking, if an Onyx player parties with a worse player they will face weaker opponents, so they can absolutely determine who they match.That's fine for friends playing together, but not fine for ranking.

The data show there are many players who play as if they are Champs when they face mid-Diamond players, but when they play against actual other Champs and Onyx players, they do worse than they should be doing if they really deserve to be Onyx.

For example, Onyx players on average win 50% of the time vs. other Onyx players, and have around 1.5 kills per minute. They have 2.0 kills per minute against a Diamond team. But, there are players who have 2.0 kpm against Diamonds, but win only 30% against actual Onyx teams, and have 1.7 kpm against Onyx instead of the usual 2.0. Those players will "look" Onyx when they play Diamonds, but don't actually deserve an Onyx rank.

But if a "fake Onyx" player constantly parties with weaker friends, they never face Onyx players, and with CSR effectively a weighted-average across your performances, they would have an undeserved Onyx CSR.

That concept can be carried all the way up to Champ 1, where we have had players who definitely don't deserve being top Champs getting there by only playing Plats/Low-Diamonds. This prevents that appropriately.

It's not a punishment. Punishment would imply some artificially reduced CSR. This isn't artificial, this is just a correction back to what the rank should have been anyways.

In addition, if you queue without anyone in your party and still face Diamond opponents, the system does not discount your CSR and you will get the usual update. So in cases where you truly have no influence on who you match, you will get the full update (solo queue).

Furthermore, I will likely put a tweak in so that if you party up with a weaker opponent but still face opponents stronger than your party's skill anyways, it won't discount the update.

Stay tuned for more info. I will update the first post if / when tweaks go live.
By punishment I was referring to it being a waste of a game and not receiving a reward, but thank you for clarifying the other points
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