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[Locked] Proving Grounds - Official Feedback Thread

OP Unyshek

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I think this post should have been a one post only deal, these argument do bring up good points, but I have read and followed this page for days. I think it's time we all calm down just a bit and let the collective data come into play.
Artecide wrote:
Also if you assert that crouching is too slow for modern game-play and map sizes, then why isn't your solution to slightly buff to speed of crouching? Which would actually make a lot more sense and be far easier than this complete mess the radar is in.
Why not use BMS instead? It's been really irrelevant since sprints inclusion. This radar actually gives it a use where as one may as well sprint with the other to move around a map, it also slows down gameplay which is a huge + to me. Crouching isn't a way to move around a map to begin with, it's purpose is to hide, mixed in with strafing, and to use the function of smart link and reduce recoil of weapons. It's not useless as people say it is.

Regardless the original radar doesn't work with h5. There's a reason it got dropped after the beta and why they're now testing a different version. H5 isn't CE-4, it plays completely different since it focuses so much on ability use.
Artecide wrote:
Also if you assert that crouching is too slow for modern game-play and map sizes, then why isn't your solution to slightly buff to speed of crouching? Which would actually make a lot more sense and be far easier than this complete mess the radar is in.
Why not use BMS instead? It's been really irrelevant since sprints inclusion. This radar actually gives it a use where as one may as well sprint with the other to move around a map, it also slows down gameplay which is a huge + to me. Crouching isn't a way to move around a map to begin with, it's purpose is to hide, mixed in with strafing, and to use the function of smart link and reduce recoil of weapons. It's not useless as people say it is.

Regardless the original radar doesn't work with h5. There's a reason it got dropped after the beta and why they're now testing a different version. H5 isn't CE-4, it plays completely different since it focuses so much on ability use.
Because BMS is too fast for you to have the stealth of not being exposed by the radar. There's lunatics on here who want BMS to be even faster.

BMS is not irrelevant. BMS allows you to shoot and move at a decent pace at the same time - it's the only way you can effectively strafe (which is vital in any good fight.) You should be moving with BMS most of the time in Halo games - the only reason this isn't as much of a thing in Halo 5 was because of the terrible decision to allow unlimited sprinting.

I've not noticed crouch reducing recoil. Do you have a source for this as I'd be interested to see if this is a thing? (Might be a new thing.)

Sprints inclusion isn't a good justification because sprinting is ridiculous in Halo 5. It was fine in Halo 4 because you couldn't sprint constantly, but Halo 5 allowing you to sprint constantly is a huge mistake. Not only is it bad for multiplayer, but I was able to sprint and skip through most of the campaign when I tried a second time just to see how bad it was.
Artecide wrote:
Artecide wrote:
And what if this radar is only for team arena? The HCS playlist? That's really all I see it going towards, and if it bothers people there's other modes with a different radar if they dislike this one so much and refuse to pay attention, I'm not getting that paranoia vibe you speak of with this.
Make a new playlist called "MLG Arena" (or whatever) and put the new radar there. No need to ruin people's fun by changing existing playlists. Alternatively, just delete the radar in the MLG playlists since that's what the Pro's really want. None of us want a crappy compromise; people either want the radar or they don't.

Leave the old radar alone in the current playlists and bump it up from 18M to 25M. (I.E. restore it to how it should be since previous Halo games.)

This makes everyone happy... :)
This radar is better than no-radar.
But it's not better than H3, Reach and H4 radar.
No radar is better than H3, Reach and H4 radar. Especially the op radar like H4.
Radar Change was cool, but changed my gameplay completely. I haven't tried slayer yet because of random game draws. But overall I liked the change. It made me depend less on the radar but more on sound and eyes. I do agree with everyone who says the normal movement should be tracked, because if you don't then R.I.P. Crouch. Good job though.
The new Radar is nice but people quit too much
Personally, I prefer the motion tracker as opposed to the ability tracker. However, I think the distance (25m) feels a lot more natural and comfortable. I would like to have 343 keep the motion tracker as it has always been but up it to 25m for all playlists. The motion tracker would make more sense too in canon since most enemies don't use Spartan Abilities (Elites, Brutes, Grunts etc.) I am a firm believer that Halo should Not take away from what it has done right for so long. Naturally people will disagree with me but "that's just like, your opinion man".
Unknown wrote:
Unknown wrote:
Unknown wrote:
this new radar is absolue TRASH, im not ranked close to where i should be nor am i doing bad in the playlist but it has changed the overall play. matches feel slower and people are camping alot more. the storm rifle is already the cheapest weapon in the game and atleast if i see a red dot on my radar i can be ready for anything. BUT YOU COULDNT NERF THAT???!!! Halo has always had radar no need to nerf it. No need to cater to players with no gunskill and need backsmack kills or crouching on auto kills. Radar is a plus to everyone.
Really isn't true when you say halo has always had radar. No radar has always been the ideal thing for competitive play, 343 just refuse to remove it so this test is the next best thing. I just wonder how many of you will continue acting like this is even for the base game, at best it's going into team arena aka the HCS playlist. It's for the people who asked for it, you still have your other playlists if you dislike this one so much.
no it hasnt, and dont quote me on competitive halo when your halo history shows nothing close to mine. just say you need backsmacks
No it hasn't what? Made it into team arena? Probably cuz it's still an on hoing test, i never said it is in there right now, I said that's where it'll go if it gains traction.

rest of you post is worthless to respond to since you seem to carry an ego, and even then my stats play no part in this lol, doesn't take someone to be good to understand better gameplay styles so enjoy your "history".
theres no ego. you dont want radar because you want cheap kills.
listen, and predict. Thatll change as people gain experience.
I don't know about you but I can't hear ANYTHING when it comes to players walking around. I have my tv volume up high AND NEVER hear people when they walk or sprint up behind me, assassinate me, walk past me, nothing.

The radar in previous Halo's balanced this out as if this was real life you would hear soldiers clomping around in heavy armour from 25 metres away or more. The radar just transferred this sensory perception from real life hearing to a virtual gaming radar.

Similarly to how aim assist and bullet magnatism is necessary as in real life you would be 10 times more accurate with a pistol at close range than you are in game WITHOUT bullet magnatism or aim assist.

It is extremely difficult to bring in realism int a virtual world but the 25 metre radar was more realistic in your awareness of spartans in close proximity than whatever distance it is now and certainly more realistic than not sensing players walking (clomping in heavy armour) around.
Also i disagree with the comparison to aim assist and magnetism. Those dont exist because of 'realism'. They exist because shooters would feel terrible on controllers without them. There's no technical reason why people cant be aware of their surroundings.
And why exactly would they feel weird without Bullet Mag and assist? BECAUSE you would never get a direct hit due to the instability and lack of realism of the game.

Have you ever tried to betray a teammate in big team battle by having a battle rifle shoot out 5 metres from each other and it literally takes 2 minutes because none of your shots are sticking? BECAUSE THERE IS NO BULLET MAGNATISM OR AIM ASSIST.

Now, take real life for example. If you fire an assault rifle from 5 metres away at somebody you have to be a special kind of uncoordinated person NOT to land a hit.

Bullet mag and aim assist are there to help balance out the realism by making the chances of hitting your target more realistic. This is fact and nobody can successfully deny this.

Also there are PLENTY of reasons you can't be aware of your surroundings in game. They include:

- The lack of peripheral vision that you would have in real life
- The lack of quick eye darting and neck movements that you would have in real life
- The lack of realism when it comes to how much noise the 1 tonne spartans truly make
- The VASTLY general limitations of controlling a virtual game character on a flat screen as opposed to literally being in on the action yourself
- etc etc etc.

The radar is there to balance out the diminished sensory perceptions that occur from reality to virtual reality. How can you not see this?

Not to be rude but I feel like you didn't think out your reply and just disagreed for the sake of disagreeing.
If developers feel like a lack of sensory perceptions is a problem in their game, then they should focus on better audio mixing, and increasing the FOV.

You can't increase FOV in game on a flat screen TV without severely warping visionary balances. It would have to be like looking through a lense where the centre is in focus and the edges are warped and stretched to get more FOV in which would be an absolute NIGHTMARE. These are the limitations of a video game until Virtual Reality tech gets better. Why do you think a lot of shooters have you in third person? For this exact reason. You wouldn't need a radar if you were in 3rd person in Halo because you would get a more realistic view of your surroundings.

I've already explained to you why auditory and visual senses are severely hindered in game but you don't seem to want to understand that so I guess we'll just agree to disagree.
Man I'm not trying to argue with you.

You can increase FOV in anything. It doesn't mean stretching, it means rendering more in both directions equally. It's a matter of system resources.... which is why you can plug a Pc up to your flatscreen and most games let you choose whatever FOV you want- well over 100 degrees- with none of the warping you are talking about.

Audio and visual senses being 'hindered' isn't an issue. These games aren't aiming to be 'real', they are aiming to be fun and balanced. There are countless FPSs that are equally (or more) reliant on player awareness that don't feature motion trackers- many of which are more focused on realism than Halo is.
Artecide wrote:
Also if you assert that crouching is too slow for modern game-play and map sizes, then why isn't your solution to slightly buff to speed of crouching? Which would actually make a lot more sense and be far easier than this complete mess the radar is in.
They already did this. This was 343's initial response months ago. Can't tell its faster? yeah nobody else can either. The only way to make crouching fast enough to be effective relative to the average speed of gameplay is to make it so fast that you are almost at base movement speed anyway.
Can we just have the classic motion senosr?
Artecide wrote:
Artecide wrote:
Also if you assert that crouching is too slow for modern game-play and map sizes, then why isn't your solution to slightly buff to speed of crouching? Which would actually make a lot more sense and be far easier than this complete mess the radar is in.
Why not use BMS instead? It's been really irrelevant since sprints inclusion. This radar actually gives it a use where as one may as well sprint with the other to move around a map, it also slows down gameplay which is a huge + to me. Crouching isn't a way to move around a map to begin with, it's purpose is to hide, mixed in with strafing, and to use the function of smart link and reduce recoil of weapons. It's not useless as people say it is.

Regardless the original radar doesn't work with h5. There's a reason it got dropped after the beta and why they're now testing a different version. H5 isn't CE-4, it plays completely different since it focuses so much on ability use.
Because BMS is too fast for you to have the stealth of not being exposed by the radar. There's lunatics on here who want BMS to be even faster.

BMS is not irrelevant. BMS allows you to shoot and move at a decent pace at the same time - it's the only way you can effectively strafe (which is vital in any good fight.) You should be moving with BMS most of the time in Halo games - the only reason this isn't as much of a thing in Halo 5 was because of the terrible decision to allow unlimited sprinting.

I've not noticed crouch reducing recoil. Do you have a source for this as I'd be interested to see if this is a thing? (Might be a new thing.)

Sprints inclusion isn't a good justification because sprinting is ridiculous in Halo 5. It was fine in Halo 4 because you couldn't sprint constantly, but Halo 5 allowing you to sprint constantly is a huge mistake. Not only is it bad for multiplayer, but I was able to sprint and skip through most of the campaign when I tried a second time just to see how bad it was.
BMS isn't that fast tho, especially with how often people still sprint around the maps. What exactly is the issue with BMS not showing on radar? People coming behind you and assainating you? Do you know how fast a flag carrier is getting across a map without boosting? Pretty slow if they aren't willing to give their position and don't flag juggle.

bms is only used when in combat as it's the only way you can shoot, give people the ability to sprint with it and see that changed. No one uses base movement to move around as your limiting yourself on power weapons and pickups since others will get to them faster sprinting as well as being to slow to back up team mates on the other side of a map. This radar gives base movement a use with it not being shown on radar, it's also slowed the pace down so long as people are actively trying to stay off radar and it makes sprint carry more of that risk/reward since you expose your position doing so. It isn't even just a halo 5 thing either, h4 was notorious for people running away due to sprint(cuz it wasn't really that limited lol) but I'll leave it at that as I don't want to go off topic all about sprint itself but how it effects this radar.

As for the recoil when croutched, it's all over the place. Youtube, here, Reddit, etc etc. people have done tons of weapon comparisons, looked at their stats, etc etc. they do decrease in recoil when crouched. It's partly why so many people do croutch in gunfights, to reduce recoil and be as accurate as possible, especially with automatics. I can link something if you'd like but it's literally all over the place that it's pretty common knowledge.

won't get into the last paragraph as this really isn't a sprint thread, just know I'm vs sprint entirely, which is why I like this radar giving BMS more of a role.
This radar system is much more competitive and realistic. I greatly prefer it over the old radar system. Ideally, I would prefer only showing up on radar when shooting (or even better never showing up on radar) but this is much better! Please keep it!
Artecide wrote:
I'm really enjoying the increased range of the radar so far!

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The things I like:
  • It's so much easier to make informed decisions in matchmaking because I have a better view of where both my own team, and the enemy are, on the radar.
  • I'm noticing that I'm able to move around the level more confidently instead of having to watch my back like some sort of paranoia.
  • It feels like any battles I get into, the winner is based on who is better with a gun rather than who sees who first
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The things I would like to be improved:
  • Show people who are running on the radar.
At the moment, it seems like only Spartans who are using Spartan Abilities or Sprinting/moving fast are showing on the radar.

This makes crouching kinda pointless. I feel like it would be better if base movement speed also showed on the radar as well.

The only time I shouldn't see people on the radar is when they're sneaking (crouching or walking slowly.)Spartans sprint at like 35MPH; this means even if they run half as fast as they sprint they still move pretty fast; it's something that should show on the radar.

Basically, this would make the radar more similar to its prime in previous games like Halo 3 and 4 - where it showed everyone unless they were sneaking (crouching or walking slowly.)

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And on a final note, the radar should never be removed or nerfed in Halo. It's wrong to listen to a select group of 'hardcore' players over the long term veterans/fans of the franchise. If people want to play with a nerfed radar, then that was what the MLG playlists were for.

When I buy into a franchise I expect to see the gameplay be very similar to previous games but with slight improvements. I don't expect to be told to stop relying on the radar in Halo 5, when in every other mainstream multiplayer Halo game, I have been encouraged to rely on it - which is a complete 180°.

Thanks 343i!
"This makes crouching kinda pointless." Exactly why we need it. In what world does crouching display any skill or smart way of playing. Crouching just promotes camping and automatic weapon abuse around corners.

"then that was what the MLG playlists were for." We don't have an MLG playlist/or similar in H5!! All of us asking for radar changes mainly want it to be removed along with Automatics, spartan charge, splinter nades. There's plenty of playlists (more than 10) to have "fun" and use all of this.

There is not a single "MLG/Hardcore" Playlist without all this extra crap that Halo doesn't need. JUST ONE PLAYLIST, it's all we want.
Would prefer it to just be out, but it's a step in the right direction it makes making plays easier since you don't have to army crawl to the enemy base anymore.
Well after playing a couple matches I like it due to the fact no matter what people are gonna be using any type of Spartan ability.
Personally, I prefer the motion tracker as opposed to the ability tracker. However, I think the distance (25m) feels a lot more natural and comfortable. I would like to have 343 keep the motion tracker as it has always been but up it to 25m for all playlists. The motion tracker would make more sense too in canon since most enemies don't use Spartan Abilities (Elites, Brutes, Grunts etc.) I am a firm believer that Halo should Not take away from what it has done right for so long. Naturally people will disagree with me but "that's just like, your opinion man".
at least you separate the ability tracker, from the motion tracker. a lot of people haven't done that
So gave this new motion tracker a try and here are my thoughts.In the Proving Grounds playlist there is a mode where the motion tracker range is extended to 25 and only detects weapon fire and spartan abilities. I don't know for sure but this seems to be an attempt to reduce usage of any spartan abilities (boost, sprint, etc.) or is to encourage walking by making it advantageous. This could possibly be an attempt at creating an environment where both the new movement style of Halo 5 and the more classic gameplay can co-exist. This is good to see because it means 343i acknowledges that there is still a large majority of fans who don't much care for the new abilities. This also means 343i realizes they can't just get rid of the abilities entirely without losing its current and maybe only audience. I see pros and cons to this and will try to address as much as I can think of.
PROS
  1. Allows both classic movement and new movement to coexist
  2. Makes it so you think twice before using sprint or any ability, as you lose the advantage of staying off the tracker
  3. Extends range back to 25m (this was the standard before Halo 5 and is more of an opinion)
CONS
  1. No way of telling someone is walking behind you/ it's less of a "motion tracker"
  2. Somewhat defeats the purpose of crouching/ features taken away to support this one
  3. Isn't a huge advantage, people still run around
I'm sure there's more but that's what I could think of on the fly. I like this because it's an attempt to solve a huge issue dividing the community and while is a nice compromise, is still flawed. The motion sensor in H5 wasn't exactly the most useful thing and this somewhat makes it worse, Feel free to disagree and discuss.
So gave this new motion tracker a try and here are my thoughts.In the Proving Grounds playlist there is a mode where the motion tracker range is extended to 25 and only detects weapon fire and spartan abilities. I don't know for sure but this seems to be an attempt to reduce usage of any spartan abilities (boost, sprint, etc.) or is to encourage walking by making it advantageous. This could possibly be an attempt at creating an environment where both the new movement style of Halo 5 and the more classic gameplay can co-exist. This is good to see because it means 343i acknowledges that there is still a large majority of fans who don't much care for the new abilities. This also means 343i realizes they can't just get rid of the abilities entirely without losing its current and maybe only audience. I see pros and cons to this and will try to address as much as I can think of.
PROS
  1. Allows both classic movement and new movement to coexist
  2. Makes it so you think twice before using sprint or any ability, as you lose the advantage of staying off the tracker
  3. Extends range back to 25m (this was the standard before Halo 5 and is more of an opinion)
CONS
  1. No way of telling someone is walking behind you/ it's less of a "motion tracker"
  2. Somewhat defeats the purpose of crouching/ features taken away to support this one
  3. Isn't a huge advantage, people still run around
I'm sure there's more but that's what I could think of on the fly. I like this because it's an attempt to solve a huge issue dividing the community and while is a nice compromise, is still flawed. The motion sensor in H5 wasn't exactly the most useful thing and this somewhat makes it worse, Feel free to disagree and discuss.
very well thought out,
but as for con 1, this isn't a motion tracker anymore, 343 call it the "ability tracker" now. which is why it would feel like less of a motion tracker, the only thing the new radar and old share is the 25m, but they are both completely different.
Im honestly not liking the new motion sensor. the game is already too competitive this makes it 10x harder just make a 2 types of playlist example make two team slayer playlist one with the new motion sensor and another one with the regular motion sensor.

thank you
I think having the radar show all movement would make it more useful. Right now I feel like using hearing and looking around more than the radar. To be honest it feels like the radar isn't there which I feel like wasn't the point of the update. Also it kinda feels like crouching seems useless as that used to be the only thing that kept you off the radar. I do like the idea though of this playlist though, keep it around to test other changes. Maybe instead of it being ranked you could award packs or maybe an exclusive armor set.
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