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[Locked] Proving Grounds - Official Feedback Thread

OP Unyshek

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Doesn't crouch also tighten the spread of certain weapons? Definitely still has a place with this new radar (spread, juke, cover, jumps) it's perhaps just not suitable as a crutch for those players that need radar in order to be effective.
I think it works well at higher level gameplay, but i can see where the casual players will dislike it. If it only becomes implemented in TA i think it could be something that works well,
I hate this new radar. I went into the playlist and played a game on Regret, and was so psyched because I could finally see enemies on the radar, now that it was at an acceptable range. After all, 25m is great, and I still think that 18m is too short.

But you know what? During the whole game, not once did I see an enemy on the radar until it was too late, nor did any of them see me. I did not Sprint once in the whole game, or use Spartan Abilities. I mean, why would I? They're not so good that they're worth giving away my position. And I didn't crouch once either, since there isn't a point anymore, because you don't show up on the radar while walking instead of crouching. And my enemies clearly had the same thought process, since none of them did the same. I mean, I loved how I played a match without sprint, that felt great. But if I wanted to play a gametype where nobody showed up on radar, I would play SWAT.

Look, I get how radar is looked down upon at professional levels of play. But you know what? Most players don't play at a professional level, or care about that particular style. I've said it once, and I'll say it again : Just create two styles of play to cater to both communities. Every other Halo game did it, and it worked great. I don't see why Halo 5 has to try to do this whole "make both groups kind of happy with a compromise that neither really likes" instead of accepting the truth. If the professional/hardcore crowd got their settings with no radar, and different map layouts (as in, weapon spawns), and the other side got our 25m radar as it always has been with the default map layouts, I'm sure we would be happy as we always have.
I've played about 20 games so far on the new radar. I like the change so far. I think it eliminates some of the crouch/camping in the game and allows teams to pull off flanks a little easier. I can also now see spartan charges coming which gives me a little more time to react. I think it's a perfect mix between no radar and the old radar. Lots of fun so far.
Hotrod192 wrote:
I hate this new radar. I went into the playlist and played a game on Regret, and was so psyched because I could finally see enemies on the radar, now that it was at an acceptable range. After all, 25m is great, and I still think that 18m is too short.

But you know what? During the whole game, not once did I see an enemy on the radar until it was too late, nor did any of them see me. I did not Sprint once in the whole game, or use Spartan Abilities. I mean, why would I? They're not so good that they're worth giving away my position. And I didn't crouch once either, since there isn't a point anymore, because you don't show up on the radar while walking instead of crouching. And my enemies clearly had the same thought process, since none of them did the same. I mean, I loved how I played a match without sprint, that felt great. But if I wanted to play a gametype where nobody showed up on radar, I would play SWAT.

Look, I get how radar is looked down upon at professional levels of play. But you know what? Most players don't play at a professional level, or care about that particular style. I've said it once, and I'll say it again : Just create two styles of play to cater to both communities. Every other Halo game did it, and it worked great. I don't see why Halo 5 has to try to do this whole "make both groups kind of happy with a compromise that neither really likes" instead of accepting the truth. If the professional/hardcore crowd got their settings with no radar, and different map layouts (as in, weapon spawns), and the other side got our 25m radar as it always has been with the default map layouts, I'm sure we would be happy as we always have.
I'm not a professional player and I like the radar, it's better to say this is more suited towards competitive players in general (I still would rather they just make a no radar playlist tho but this is better than nothing at least). I absolutely agree with you on h5 trying to be in the middle rather than just giving both groups what they want. It's simple yet I'm dumbfounded 343 don't do anything. Give 25M to everything that isn't team arena, and make team arena a no radar playlist. I appreciate 343 trying to be in the middle, but sometimes that doesn't work cuz as you said, you end up making both sides unhappy.

"But if I wanted to play a gametype where nobody showed up on radar, I would play SWAT." I do have to correct this. People would play swat if they liked swat, it's not about showing up on radar but giving a different play style. Sprint being used less does slow movement down and makes combat engaging much more fun. Flanking is more viable as now there isn't a radar that says there's some one sneaking around your back, you have to be aware of your flank. Abilities (and I dislike most of them) are also much more limited so long as people have the mindset of staying off radar. Certain zones of a map are also traversed more often as well with this new sensor. I also feel it gives more risk/reward to how you move. Want to move fast? You can sprint but you chance being seen. Want to move at BMS? You give up speed but won't show on radar and you'll have your weapons at the ready. Want to crouch it out? You give up even more speed but gain the benefit of less recoil, an extra strafing option, and can duck behind cover making players have to move around you to shoot you (still don't understand how crouching is useless to people when I can give reasons why it's not). I didn't like the previous vanilla radar or even the radar in previous games cuz it led to stand offs where someone waits for the other to make the first move, when both use that mindset it gets even worse, plus it just gives free information right off the bat. Now when you run into people you tend to just duke it out.
CoolPR wrote:
I think the only time you should be invisible on radar is if you are crouching. It is a motion sensor.
Poor logic considering when you're crouch-walking, you're still in motion.

Personally, I think the change is great and makes sprinting less prevalent now that people have more options to approach combat. It empowers solo players, which is an issue with default motion tracker because imagine 4 people communicating with radar vs a team of all solo players; the radar doesn't help the solo players as much as it strengthens the teams -- a common misconception is that default motion tracker helps solo players vs teams, but it's actually the other way around. One person on the enemy team sees your red dot, then all their teammates know about your position, whereas when you can just walk normally you have more options than slowlyyyyy crouch-walking.

The disparity between not showing up on radar vs appearing on radar was the difference between that SLOW crouch-walk and sprinting, so there was little reason NOT to sprint around when you're going to appear on the radar anyway. I'm happy for the change and I hope it becomes the standard going forward.
You're thinking way too literal, he was actually trying to say that since it's a motion sensor it should be able to effectively pick up motion, meaning the motion of a spartan walking a decent pace & obviously sprinting, since when you're crouch-walking you move so ridiculously slowly, it makes sense why that motion wouldn't show up on a radar, it's believable. Your argument that since crouch-walking is still technically motion so walking shouldn't show up on the radar either even though the amount of motion in between the two is colossal is just showing me that you're blind. Why would those two be treated the same? But anyways, the bottom line is this new pathetic excuse for a motion sensor safeguards campers as well as increases the "whoever sees who first gets the kill" aspect of Halo 5, and that disrespects the very foundation of Halo. I agree that it does technically nerf sprinting, which is needed, but it buffs the hell out of walking, which is not an acceptable trade off. And your anecdote is invalid since the instance you described will never happen in a ranked match in game of the Halo series, an organized team will not face a group of solo players when both have different variants motion sensors. BRING BACK THE TRADITIONAL 25M MOTION SENSOR.
I think it's clear as day you rely off radar more than one should.

Here's the thing, the won't work how they're wanting to go work if you make BMS show up on radar, it then makes slowing the pace pointless as people go right back to sprinting, as why use BMS if I'm to be shown anyways? It's more classic this way.

you're also the "blind" one if you think it's a game of who sees who first, the longer ttk negates that and makes it irrelevant and it's quite contradictory of you when you're wanting a 25M radar to see people further away. halo isn't going into the "it's all about who sees who first" till they drop the ttk considerably.

"I agree that it does technically nerf sprinting, which is needed, but it buffs the hell out of walking, which is not an acceptable trade off." you fail to even list why so why would anyone listen to this ramble? It's also a fair trade off, you want speed you show up, you want stealth you have to move slower. You also ignore that 99% of the players airing in this game and don't sit still so it's not like people will constantly just walk up behind people getting beat downs and such, it's also avoided if people communicate, an element people are to good for these days.
Come on man, if you're going to try and start a debate with me then you actually have to try to use your brain a bit. First of all, my initial response was FAR from a ramble because I listed my claims AS WELL as appropriate reasoning to support them. You thought you found a fallacy in my argument when I failed to further explain how concealing basic walking movement just buffs walking? It's self explanatory! Since you cannot be seen walking on the radar, it results in walking being more effective, in other words, it BUFFS walking. Come on now, that's just common sense. Secondly, you need to open your eyes if you honestly believe this new radar isn't encouraging the idea of whoever sees who first gets the kill. Simply put, if I get shot at at the side or at my back from an enemy that I had no idea was there because my radar didn't pick up his location LIKE IT SHOULD, how the hell am I supposed to defend myself against him? Whereas with the TRADITIONAL RADAR, I know he's coming, and he knows I'm coming, so we'll both be equally ready to engage in battle and the most skilled will prevail. The simple truth is not everybody has a mic and wants to have to rely on team callouts to have to locate an enemy, especially when there's an IN GAME FEATURE MEANT TO DO JUST THAT. And what the hell? Who are you to decide how much one should rely on the radar? Of course I'll rely on it because it's there to ensure I don't get cheaply killed by an enemy shooting me in my fu**ing back without me knowing he was even there. If you want to play a game where luck decides who gets a kill, go take your a** to Call of Duty, Halo is not for you.
Yes it does buff walking but why is that a bad thing?

Isn't being aware of your surroundings and enemy positions a skill? Surely a player who has flanked/outpositioned you can be said to have out skilled you? Your ability to win 1v1 fights is not the only skill in Halo.

Being able to outmaneuver the enemy to give yourself an advantageous position is an integral skill in Halo. Radar removes that by doing exactly what you describe.
Now THIS was a very intelligent response, and truth be told I partly agree with you. You're right that one's skill in being able to maneuver better than their opponent is definitely something that should be taken seriously in Halo, but I just feel like that is its own category and shouldn't be included with this motion sensor debate. Why you ask? Because, sure it's important to pay attention to your surroundings so you know where to position yourself to face your opponent, but having an efficient motion sensor will not wrongfully impede those who have that skill, because the motion sensor just ensures we're fighting on a MOSTLY level playing field with no blind lucky surprise attacks. This is where the brilliant crouching system Bungie made comes in handy, its INTENDED for situations like this, if someone is truly that skilled and puts in that extra effort to locate me, track my movements, crouch (to hide themselves), pick a good position, and swiftly kill me due to them being positioned better than me because they were aware of where I was, then I'm fine with that, THATS HOW IT SHOULD BE. My issue comes from the lucky fu**ers who blindly walk around and are lucky and see me when I can't see them (due to a bad motion sensor) and kill me due to that. I see where you're coming from though bro, that was truly a brilliant response and argument.
CoolPR wrote:
I think the only time you should be invisible on radar is if you are crouching. It is a motion sensor.
Poor logic considering when you're crouch-walking, you're still in motion.

Personally, I think the change is great and makes sprinting less prevalent now that people have more options to approach combat. It empowers solo players, which is an issue with default motion tracker because imagine 4 people communicating with radar vs a team of all solo players; the radar doesn't help the solo players as much as it strengthens the teams -- a common misconception is that default motion tracker helps solo players vs teams, but it's actually the other way around. One person on the enemy team sees your red dot, then all their teammates know about your position, whereas when you can just walk normally you have more options than slowlyyyyy crouch-walking.

The disparity between not showing up on radar vs appearing on radar was the difference between that SLOW crouch-walk and sprinting, so there was little reason NOT to sprint around when you're going to appear on the radar anyway. I'm happy for the change and I hope it becomes the standard going forward.
You're thinking way too literal, he was actually trying to say that since it's a motion sensor it should be able to effectively pick up motion, meaning the motion of a spartan walking a decent pace & obviously sprinting, since when you're crouch-walking you move so ridiculously slowly, it makes sense why that motion wouldn't show up on a radar, it's believable. Your argument that since crouch-walking is still technically motion so walking shouldn't show up on the radar either even though the amount of motion in between the two is colossal is just showing me that you're blind. Why would those two be treated the same? But anyways, the bottom line is this new pathetic excuse for a motion sensor safeguards campers as well as increases the "whoever sees who first gets the kill" aspect of Halo 5, and that disrespects the very foundation of Halo. I agree that it does technically nerf sprinting, which is needed, but it buffs the hell out of walking, which is not an acceptable trade off. And your anecdote is invalid since the instance you described will never happen in a ranked match in game of the Halo series, an organized team will not face a group of solo players when both have different variants motion sensors. BRING BACK THE TRADITIONAL 25M MOTION SENSOR.
I think it's clear as day you rely off radar more than one should.

Here's the thing, the won't work how they're wanting to go work if you make BMS show up on radar, it then makes slowing the pace pointless as people go right back to sprinting, as why use BMS if I'm to be shown anyways? It's more classic this way.

you're also the "blind" one if you think it's a game of who sees who first, the longer ttk negates that and makes it irrelevant and it's quite contradictory of you when you're wanting a 25M radar to see people further away. halo isn't going into the "it's all about who sees who first" till they drop the ttk considerably.

"I agree that it does technically nerf sprinting, which is needed, but it buffs the hell out of walking, which is not an acceptable trade off." you fail to even list why so why would anyone listen to this ramble? It's also a fair trade off, you want speed you show up, you want stealth you have to move slower. You also ignore that 99% of the players airing in this game and don't sit still so it's not like people will constantly just walk up behind people getting beat downs and such, it's also avoided if people communicate, an element people are to good for these days.
Now THIS was a very intelligent response, and truth be told I partly agree with you. You're right that one's skill in being able to maneuver better than their opponent is definitely something that should be taken seriously in Halo, but I just feel like that is its own category and shouldn't be included with this motion sensor debate. Why you ask? Because, sure it's important to pay attention to your surroundings so you know where to position yourself to face your opponent, but having an efficient motion sensor will not wrongfully impede those who have that skill, because the motion sensor just ensures we're fighting on a MOSTLY level playing field with no blind lucky surprise attacks. This is where the brilliant crouching system Bungie made comes in handy, its INTENDED for situations like this, if someone is truly that skilled and puts in that extra effort to locate me, track my movements, crouch (to hide themselves), pick a good position, and swiftly kill me due to them being positioned better than me because they were aware of where I was, then I'm fine with that, THATS HOW IT SHOULD BE. My issue comes from the lucky fu**ers who blindly walk around and are lucky and see me when I can't see them (due to a bad motion sensor) and kill me due to that. I see where you're coming from though bro, that was truly a brilliant response and argument.
So why are people so "lucky" if there's no radar? Do you assume people don't think things out? Or learn people's tendencies on where to sit? Not to mention, if someone just "walks around" and finds you shouldn't that tell you something on your own placement?

"motion sensor just ensures we're fighting on a MOSTLY level playing field" how so? If everyone doesn't have a sensor then it's no different than when everyone does have one, you all have the same tools available to you. Your issue is because you can't see people, it's lucky on their part and unfair.

"see me when I can't see them (due to a bad motion sensor)" remember when I said you rely on the sensor to much? You just admitted it right there.
eLantern wrote:
JA50N 0 wrote:
Not entirely sold on this : /
Personally, I'd like to see some modifications made to it, but I like the direction it's going for the HCS. Within my massive post on page 19 I outline what I think might be an improvement...
This is just my opinion, not trying to start a fire...but I don't think halo's future should be driven by what's good for the hcs....it should be secondary, a byproduct. If they want to use alternative setting for a tournament thats fine but not be standard as a whole.
It can only hurt halo, in level design, in gamemodes, in just being fun...you can see the lack or lost game modes today because they aren't deemed well for esports.
JA50N 0 wrote:
eLantern wrote:
JA50N 0 wrote:
Not entirely sold on this : /
Personally, I'd like to see some modifications made to it, but I like the direction it's going for the HCS. Within my massive post on page 19 I outline what I think might be an improvement...
This is just my opinion, not trying to start a fire...but I don't think halo's future should be driven by what's good for the hcs....it should be secondary, a byproduct. If they want to use alternative setting for a tournament thats fine but not be standard as a whole.
It can only hurt halo, in level design, in gamemodes, in just being fun...you can see the lack or lost game modes today because they aren't deemed well for esports.
I don't really see E-sports as halos issue. It played no part In Reach or 4 as they had no connection. The issue =343 just not doing things correctly.
Pyxely wrote:
Artecide wrote:
[...] people will just have to be more aware of there surroundings instead of having the Motion tracker be aware for you.
This is exactly what we don't want.

We don't want to have to constantly check our backs like paranoia and peak every corner before taking it; it's annoying and tedious, and it detracts from the gameplay that we uniquely enjoyed in previous Halo games.

If I wanted to play a shooter where I had to constantly my back and every corner visually then I'd play Rainbox Six or CoD. When I play Halo I don't want to constantly check my back and corners because it's tedious - I want the radar to do that for me like it has in every other Halo game. It's more fun and it makes me feel like the suit of armour I'm in actually has my back and warns me of danger.

in previous Halo games the only major time you'd check your back/corners is if you were worried someone was crouching or sneaking. Because the new radar doesn't show running it means you have to check your back constantly because it's far easier to be surprise-attacked -- which sucks!

When I play MLG I liked having no Radar, but only in the MLG playlists; because when I play those playlists I enter a deeper level of focus which is more intense (sic: less fun) and I have a highly communicative team of three with me. But I don't play with a highly communicative team like that in standard Ranked/Social; It's too intense and it's not Halo -- which is why having a strong radar is so important outside of MLG.
I think you're over reaching with "staple feature" since it hasn't even been in multiple games, it's a test thing, and even if it "were" to become a staple feature it's a minor one at that since it's a motion tracker.

"The Halo Community is, for the most part, far too fickle and selfish to make good decisions for themselves and the wider community." I actually agree, halo wouldn't be losing sales if the community knew what was best but I do think you over value the radar more than it needs to be. No one ever referenced it in the past, and now that it's finally undergoing quite the change you can see who relies off it so much (it's pretty clear people who originally wanted no radar support this and people who liked the OG radar don't). My only issue is why everyone is freaking out, this radar can't work for campaign or firefight so it shouldn't effect that, and it's really pointless in a variety of other modes like infection or fiesta will abilities will be used very little, not to mention 343 said it's an anti-social radar that received feedback from "competitive players", in short I think people are letting their imaginations run around to much. If it's designed for competitive play it really doesn't need everyone's opinions, only the ones who will actually play it.my only issue is 343 still neglecting the social modes that don't like the vanilla h5 radar, they're so open to trying stuff with the competitive crowd that they have yet to even give an anwser to the people that just want radar bumped up to 25M (even if I find it pointless cuz it played like trash in the beta).
But it does need everyone's opinion as it states no where in the article that it will only be in ranked play. So we must assume it will that if this radar is kept, it will phase out the old arena one completely ranked or social. Not only that, but competitive players are not the only ones who play the ranked playlist, people seem to be missing that casual players still like to play the playlists, I consider myself casual and do not play competitively, but even I like to go in and play Slayer, Swat or FFA and work to win some games or even rank in a playlist. Its fun to do when you get tired of the social modes, cause beside Firefight, Warzone is uhh.. its own warzone of competitive messes, well at least it kinda is after the player limit was changed. I could understand if this was the Team arena radar, but as a whole, I do not think this works, this radar is only for those who truly just want it gone, just look at the article itself, they are only doing because of the competitive scene, which I can bet is small when compared to the overall fanbase of Halo.
Pyxely wrote:
Artecide wrote:
[...] people will just have to be more aware of there surroundings instead of having the Motion tracker be aware for you.
This is exactly what we don't want.

We don't want to have to constantly check our backs like paranoia and peak every corner before taking it; it's annoying and tedious, and it detracts from the gameplay that we uniquely enjoyed in previous Halo games.

If I wanted to play a shooter where I had to constantly my back and every corner visually then I'd play Rainbox Six or CoD. When I play Halo I don't want to constantly check my back and corners because it's tedious - I want the radar to do that for me like it has in every other Halo game. It's more fun and it makes me feel like the suit of armour I'm in actually has my back and warns me of danger.

in previous Halo games the only major time you'd check your back/corners is if you were worried someone was crouching or sneaking. Because the new radar doesn't show running it means you have to check your back constantly because it's far easier to be surprise-attacked -- which sucks!

When I play MLG I liked having no Radar, but only in the MLG playlists; because when I play those playlists I enter a deeper level of focus which is more intense (sic: less fun) and I have a highly communicative team of three with me. But I don't play with a highly communicative team like that in standard Ranked/Social; It's too intense and it's not Halo -- which is why having a strong radar is so important outside of MLG.
I think you're over reaching with "staple feature" since it hasn't even been in multiple games, it's a test thing, and even if it "were" to become a staple feature it's a minor one at that since it's a motion tracker.

"The Halo Community is, for the most part, far too fickle and selfish to make good decisions for themselves and the wider community." I actually agree, halo wouldn't be losing sales if the community knew what was best but I do think you over value the radar more than it needs to be. No one ever referenced it in the past, and now that it's finally undergoing quite the change you can see who relies off it so much (it's pretty clear people who originally wanted no radar support this and people who liked the OG radar don't). My only issue is why everyone is freaking out, this radar can't work for campaign or firefight so it shouldn't effect that, and it's really pointless in a variety of other modes like infection or fiesta will abilities will be used very little, not to mention 343 said it's an anti-social radar that received feedback from "competitive players", in short I think people are letting their imaginations run around to much. If it's designed for competitive play it really doesn't need everyone's opinions, only the ones who will actually play it.my only issue is 343 still neglecting the social modes that don't like the vanilla h5 radar, they're so open to trying stuff with the competitive crowd that they have yet to even give an anwser to the people that just want radar bumped up to 25M (even if I find it pointless cuz it played like trash in the beta).
But it does need everyone's opinion as it states no where in the article that it will only be in ranked play. So we must assume it will that if this radar is kept, it will phase out the old arena one completely ranked or social.
Why *must* this be an assumption? I don't think it's unreasonable to think that this radar may go into ranked only and not social or WZ.

Don't make assumptions until we have all the information. Leaping to conclusions like this is how a lot of Chicken Little syndromes start.
Pyxely wrote:
Artecide wrote:
[...] people will just have to be more aware of there surroundings instead of having the Motion tracker be aware for you.
This is exactly what we don't want.

We don't want to have to constantly check our backs like paranoia and peak every corner before taking it; it's annoying and tedious, and it detracts from the gameplay that we uniquely enjoyed in previous Halo games.

If I wanted to play a shooter where I had to constantly my back and every corner visually then I'd play Rainbox Six or CoD. When I play Halo I don't want to constantly check my back and corners because it's tedious - I want the radar to do that for me like it has in every other Halo game. It's more fun and it makes me feel like the suit of armour I'm in actually has my back and warns me of danger.

in previous Halo games the only major time you'd check your back/corners is if you were worried someone was crouching or sneaking. Because the new radar doesn't show running it means you have to check your back constantly because it's far easier to be surprise-attacked -- which sucks!

When I play MLG I liked having no Radar, but only in the MLG playlists; because when I play those playlists I enter a deeper level of focus which is more intense (sic: less fun) and I have a highly communicative team of three with me. But I don't play with a highly communicative team like that in standard Ranked/Social; It's too intense and it's not Halo -- which is why having a strong radar is so important outside of MLG.
But it does need everyone's opinion as it states no where in the article that it will only be in ranked play. So we must assume it will that if this radar is kept, it will phase out the old arena one completely ranked or social.
Why *must* this be an assumption? I don't think it's unreasonable to think that this radar may go into ranked only and not social or WZ.

Don't make assumptions until we have all the information. Leaping to conclusions like this is how a lot of Chicken Little syndromes start.
look, all I am saying is that 343 needs to tell us if this is only going into only ranked or all or arena. Also I think WZ won't change as it already uses a different radar then arena.
Pyxely wrote:
Artecide wrote:
[...] people will just have to be more aware of there surroundings instead of having the Motion tracker be aware for you.
This is exactly what we don't want.

We don't want to have to constantly check our backs like paranoia and peak every corner before taking it; it's annoying and tedious, and it detracts from the gameplay that we uniquely enjoyed in previous Halo games.

If I wanted to play a shooter where I had to constantly my back and every corner visually then I'd play Rainbox Six or CoD. When I play Halo I don't want to constantly check my back and corners because it's tedious - I want the radar to do that for me like it has in every other Halo game. It's more fun and it makes me feel like the suit of armour I'm in actually has my back and warns me of danger.

in previous Halo games the only major time you'd check your back/corners is if you were worried someone was crouching or sneaking. Because the new radar doesn't show running it means you have to check your back constantly because it's far easier to be surprise-attacked -- which sucks!

When I play MLG I liked having no Radar, but only in the MLG playlists; because when I play those playlists I enter a deeper level of focus which is more intense (sic: less fun) and I have a highly communicative team of three with me. But I don't play with a highly communicative team like that in standard Ranked/Social; It's too intense and it's not Halo -- which is why having a strong radar is so important outside of MLG.
I think you're over reaching with "staple feature" since it hasn't even been in multiple games, it's a test thing, and even if it "were" to become a staple feature it's a minor one at that since it's a motion tracker.

"The Halo Community is, for the most part, far too fickle and selfish to make good decisions for themselves and the wider community." I actually agree, halo wouldn't be losing sales if the community knew what was best but I do think you over value the radar more than it needs to be. No one ever referenced it in the past, and now that it's finally undergoing quite the change you can see who relies off it so much (it's pretty clear people who originally wanted no radar support this and people who liked the OG radar don't). My only issue is why everyone is freaking out, this radar can't work for campaign or firefight so it shouldn't effect that, and it's really pointless in a variety of other modes like infection or fiesta will abilities will be used very little, not to mention 343 said it's an anti-social radar that received feedback from "competitive players", in short I think people are letting their imaginations run around to much. If it's designed for competitive play it really doesn't need everyone's opinions, only the ones who will actually play it.my only issue is 343 still neglecting the social modes that don't like the vanilla h5 radar, they're so open to trying stuff with the competitive crowd that they have yet to even give an anwser to the people that just want radar bumped up to 25M (even if I find it pointless cuz it played like trash in the beta).
But it does need everyone's opinion as it states no where in the article that it will only be in ranked play. So we must assume it will that if this radar is kept, it will phase out the old arena one completely ranked or social. Not only that, but competitive players are not the only ones who play the ranked playlist, people seem to be missing that casual players still like to play the playlists, I consider myself casual and do not play competitively, but even I like to go in and play Slayer, Swat or FFA and work to win some games or even rank in a playlist. Its fun to do when you get tired of the social modes, cause beside Firefight, Warzone is uhh.. its own warzone of competitive messes, well at least it kinda is after the player limit was changed. I could understand if this was the Team arena radar, but as a whole, I do not think this works, this radar is only for those who truly just want it gone, just look at the article itself, they are only doing because of the competitive scene, which I can bet is small when compared to the overall fanbase of Halo.
Why must we assume it could go everywhere? Can't I assume based off their wording and how this playlist is setup it'll only go towards team arena? It can go both ways really. 343 would be really naive if they move this toward anything else as they aren't even testing it for anything else, only the modes in That are in TA.

You're correct on the scene being small, but the competitive community isn't just the competitive scene either, it's much larger than people like to think.

youll find I agree this shouldn't go anywhere else but TA, but I'm not to worried in it touching anything else.
Pyxely wrote:
Artecide wrote:
[...] people will just have to be more aware of there surroundings instead of having the Motion tracker be aware for you.
This is exactly what we don't want.

We don't want to have to constantly check our backs like paranoia and peak every corner before taking it; it's annoying and tedious, and it detracts from the gameplay that we uniquely enjoyed in previous Halo games.

If I wanted to play a shooter where I had to constantly my back and every corner visually then I'd play Rainbox Six or CoD. When I play Halo I don't want to constantly check my back and corners because it's tedious - I want the radar to do that for me like it has in every other Halo game. It's more fun and it makes me feel like the suit of armour I'm in actually has my back and warns me of danger.

in previous Halo games the only major time you'd check your back/corners is if you were worried someone was crouching or sneaking. Because the new radar doesn't show running it means you have to check your back constantly because it's far easier to be surprise-attacked -- which sucks!

When I play MLG I liked having no Radar, but only in the MLG playlists; because when I play those playlists I enter a deeper level of focus which is more intense (sic: less fun) and I have a highly communicative team of three with me. But I don't play with a highly communicative team like that in standard Ranked/Social; It's too intense and it's not Halo -- which is why having a strong radar is so important outside of MLG.
But it does need everyone's opinion as it states no where in the article that it will only be in ranked play. So we must assume it will that if this radar is kept, it will phase out the old arena one completely ranked or social.
Why *must* this be an assumption? I don't think it's unreasonable to think that this radar may go into ranked only and not social or WZ.

Don't make assumptions until we have all the information. Leaping to conclusions like this is how a lot of Chicken Little syndromes start.
look, all I am saying is that 343 needs to tell us if this is only going into only ranked or all or arena.
And when they make a decision, they'll let us know then. This is essentially a beta testing playlist to see how it pans out. Once they have that information, they'll tell us.

In the meantime, I recommend not panicking until we have more information.
Pyxely wrote:
Artecide wrote:
[...] people will just have to be more aware of there surroundings instead of having the Motion tracker be aware for you.
This is exactly what we don't want.

We don't want to have to constantly check our backs like paranoia and peak every corner before taking it; it's annoying and tedious, and it detracts from the gameplay that we uniquely enjoyed in previous Halo games.

If I wanted to play a shooter where I had to constantly my back and every corner visually then I'd play Rainbox Six or CoD. When I play Halo I don't want to constantly check my back and corners because it's tedious - I want the radar to do that for me like it has in every other Halo game. It's more fun and it makes me feel like the suit of armour I'm in actually has my back and warns me of danger.

in previous Halo games the only major time you'd check your back/corners is if you were worried someone was crouching or sneaking. Because the new radar doesn't show running it means you have to check your back constantly because it's far easier to be surprise-attacked -- which sucks!

When I play MLG I liked having no Radar, but only in the MLG playlists; because when I play those playlists I enter a deeper level of focus which is more intense (sic: less fun) and I have a highly communicative team of three with me. But I don't play with a highly communicative team like that in standard Ranked/Social; It's too intense and it's not Halo -- which is why having a strong radar is so important outside of MLG.
But it does need everyone's opinion as it states no where in the article that it will only be in ranked play. So we must assume it will that if this radar is kept, it will phase out the old arena one completely ranked or social.
Why *must* this be an assumption? I don't think it's unreasonable to think that this radar may go into ranked only and not social or WZ.

Don't make assumptions until we have all the information. Leaping to conclusions like this is how a lot of Chicken Little syndromes start.
look, all I am saying is that 343 needs to tell us if this is only going into only ranked or all or arena. Also I think WZ won't change as it already uses a different radar then arena.
Right now they can't cuz it's only a test, there's not guarantee they'll even add it, so if there's no guarantee they cant say what modes it would go to. I'm only speculating it going to TA.
JA50N 0 wrote:
eLantern wrote:
JA50N 0 wrote:
Not entirely sold on this : /
Personally, I'd like to see some modifications made to it, but I like the direction it's going for the HCS. Within my massive post on page 19 I outline what I think might be an improvement...
This is just my opinion, not trying to start a fire...but I don't think halo's future should be driven by what's good for the hcs....it should be secondary, a byproduct. If they want to use alternative setting for a tournament thats fine but not be standard as a whole.
It can only hurt halo, in level design, in gamemodes, in just being fun...you can see the lack or lost game modes today because they aren't deemed well for esports.
to be honest, the older i get, the less game modes i want, spreading the population for the sake of choice, can be bad and on average people just stick to one or two playlist anyway, (see death of shotty snipes and snipers) so unifying things like the new radar to all playlist, is a step in the right direction, because at what point will people stop using the "well i am a casual player, i don't want this competitiveness" in a competitive game? when there are winners, and loses, your not wanting to lose, is what makes you competitive, that isn't the game designs fault.

but, ideally, these competitive changes, such as weapon layout, radar changes and such... should be kept to the team arena/HCS playlist, (as how halo 3 did it)

but at some point, people do need to stop hiding behind the "i am a causal, i don't want to be competitive all the time" when the true of the matter is, the people who dislike how competitive this game has become, are competitors themselves, because if they were casual, they would brush off each game as if it was just a game, but that want to do well, they want to feel good about their performance, that is being a competitor.

let me ask you, if halo 5 had the 25M radar in team arena (which by general skimming) a lot of people enjoy, but kept the 18M radar in every other mode, would you still play every other mode for the sake of being a causal who "doesn't want to sweat"?
I'm really liking the new radar system. I think this could be the solution to the sprint "problem" that much of the classic community has been complaining about for years now. This genuinely changes the way people move in what I think is a very positive way. Its an extremely refreshing change from the constant spawn - sprint/slide/thrust/clamber your way across the map without any strategy type of movement that most people have adopted. The flow of the game feels more classic and balanced with a greater emphasis on map control and teamwork. Working as a team to take "field advantage" or hold power weapon spawns was always a huge part of previous halo games. It used to genuinely be hard to get good position against a solid team, and I think that was a good thing. This radar system helps recreate that feel and play style and I am a fan!I would also really like to experiment with a 5-10% regular movement speed increase.
Overall, I think this is a great compromise for people on both sides of the sprint argument.
in my ideal world, the not showing up when walking should be in Team Arena, and ranked slayer. ( i can't see it working in FFA) with the 25M

while in social, ONLY the 25M radar increase should stay, but the showing up 100 percent of the time should be turned on
Pyxely wrote:
Artecide wrote:
[...] people will just have to be more aware of there surroundings instead of having the Motion tracker be aware for you.
This is exactly what we don't want.

We don't want to have to constantly check our backs like paranoia and peak every corner before taking it; it's annoying and tedious, and it detracts from the gameplay that we uniquely enjoyed in previous Halo games.

If I wanted to play a shooter where I had to constantly my back and every corner visually then I'd play Rainbox Six or CoD. When I play Halo I don't want to constantly check my back and corners because it's tedious - I want the radar to do that for me like it has in every other Halo game. It's more fun and it makes me feel like the suit of armour I'm in actually has my back and warns me of danger.

in previous Halo games the only major time you'd check your back/corners is if you were worried someone was crouching or sneaking. Because the new radar doesn't show running it means you have to check your back constantly because it's far easier to be surprise-attacked -- which sucks!

When I play MLG I liked having no Radar, but only in the MLG playlists; because when I play those playlists I enter a deeper level of focus which is more intense (sic: less fun) and I have a highly communicative team of three with me. But I don't play with a highly communicative team like that in standard Ranked/Social; It's too intense and it's not Halo -- which is why having a strong radar is so important outside of MLG.
But it does need everyone's opinion as it states no where in the article that it will only be in ranked play. So we must assume it will that if this radar is kept, it will phase out the old arena one completely ranked or social.
Why *must* this be an assumption? I don't think it's unreasonable to think that this radar may go into ranked only and not social or WZ.

Don't make assumptions until we have all the information. Leaping to conclusions like this is how a lot of Chicken Little syndromes start.
look, all I am saying is that 343 needs to tell us if this is only going into only ranked or all or arena. Also I think WZ won't change as it already uses a different radar then arena.
It probably wont go into WZ as there is an armour ability that has this motion tracker. Its probably where the idea came from.
Hotrod192 wrote:
I hate this new radar. I went into the playlist and played a game on Regret, and was so psyched because I could finally see enemies on the radar, now that it was at an acceptable range. After all, 25m is great, and I still think that 18m is too short.

But you know what? During the whole game, not once did I see an enemy on the radar until it was too late, nor did any of them see me. I did not Sprint once in the whole game, or use Spartan Abilities. I mean, why would I? They're not so good that they're worth giving away my position. And I didn't crouch once either, since there isn't a point anymore, because you don't show up on the radar while walking instead of crouching. And my enemies clearly had the same thought process, since none of them did the same. I mean, I loved how I played a match without sprint, that felt great. But if I wanted to play a gametype where nobody showed up on radar, I would play SWAT.

Look, I get how radar is looked down upon at professional levels of play. But you know what? Most players don't play at a professional level, or care about that particular style. I've said it once, and I'll say it again : Just create two styles of play to cater to both communities. Every other Halo game did it, and it worked great. I don't see why Halo 5 has to try to do this whole "make both groups kind of happy with a compromise that neither really likes" instead of accepting the truth. If the professional/hardcore crowd got their settings with no radar, and different map layouts (as in, weapon spawns), and the other side got our 25m radar as it always has been with the default map layouts, I'm sure we would be happy as we always have.
I'm not a professional player and I like the radar, it's better to say this is more suited towards competitive players in general (I still would rather they just make a no radar playlist tho but this is better than nothing at least). I absolutely agree with you on h5 trying to be in the middle rather than just giving both groups what they want. It's simple yet I'm dumbfounded 343 don't do anything. Give 25M to everything that isn't team arena, and make team arena a no radar playlist. I appreciate 343 trying to be in the middle, but sometimes that doesn't work cuz as you said, you end up making both sides unhappy.

"But if I wanted to play a gametype where nobody showed up on radar, I would play SWAT." I do have to correct this. People would play swat if they liked swat, it's not about showing up on radar but giving a different play style. Sprint being used less does slow movement down and makes combat engaging much more fun. Flanking is more viable as now there isn't a radar that says there's some one sneaking around your back, you have to be aware of your flank. Abilities (and I dislike most of them) are also much more limited so long as people have the mindset of staying off radar. Certain zones of a map are also traversed more often as well with this new sensor. I also feel it gives more risk/reward to how you move. Want to move fast? You can sprint but you chance being seen. Want to move at BMS? You give up speed but won't show on radar and you'll have your weapons at the ready. Want to crouch it out? You give up even more speed but gain the benefit of less recoil, an extra strafing option, and can duck behind cover making players have to move around you to shoot you (still don't understand how crouching is useless to people when I can give reasons why it's not). I didn't like the previous vanilla radar or even the radar in previous games cuz it led to stand offs where someone waits for the other to make the first move, when both use that mindset it gets even worse, plus it just gives free information right off the bat. Now when you run into people you tend to just duke it out.
I agree with you, I really do appreciate 343i's efforts to try to bring everybody under one roof, and I understand why they tried it. If you look at the big competitive games these days (League of Legends, Dota 2, even StarCraft 2 back when it was popular), the pros play the exact same game as anybody else. There aren't any special "pro" settings, and with that, I suppose it makes it easier for the casual player to watch the games and understand what's going on. It could be argued that the same train of thought could be applied to Halo 5. If the mainstream players are playing Halo with a 25m radar, but the tournaments have no radar, there could be some disconnection. That being said, I think 343i's efforts just prove that Halo is not League or Dota 2 or those other games, Halo is Halo. Historically, Halo has had different competitive settings for a reason. And, personally, I find watching the pros play with no radar is more interesting, because it's very admirable to see them play in a way that I don't, communicating with their team in ways that I can never do as a solo player.

And you're right, there are benefits to the new radar, I can't argue against that at all. The movement is slower, which I love, and Spartan Abilities are more of an addition, rather than being the centre of gameplay. And you're right, players will fight to the death and try to play more intelligently rather than just run away at any sight of danger. I understand how this radar can be good for gameplay, but I just don't like how those changes are caused.. I wish there was a way to have gamplay slow down a bit and put less emphasis on Spartan Abilities without needing to make the radar so different from how it always worked in Halo.

And I understand why you and others dislike the traditional radar or radar in general. For many players, competitive Halo is built around communication with your teammates. I really understand that. However, for solo/social players like myself, the radar is a great tool for information. We don't have the liberty of being able to talk to our teammates, and we've been playing around using the radar for over 15 years now. To us, the radar was always fine, why change it now? Again, this just leads to my previous point that there should be two distinct settings for social and competitive/hardcore play.
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