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[Locked] Proving Grounds - Official Feedback Thread

OP Unyshek

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getatme94 wrote:
getatme94 wrote:
Kaioken wrote:
getatme94 wrote:
Kaioken wrote:
i also don't agree with your, "who is going to walk around with precision weapons" statement, because i for one, still do fine, if not better, with precision weapons with the new radar
100% agreed... we need a new meta in this game, if not, then sadly MCC H3 or Destiny 2 for me.
That's the thing. They don't have to be unusable, in fact they are not. So, why people that want a real competitive halo experience ONE ranked playlist.
We all know those weapons became more powerful in H5 to close the skill gap and make the game more "casual". Most "casuals" will go and play any other game once they get bored of Halo. People that want more competitive settings, are the people that ONLY play halo. So whats wrong with giving the a playlist if there's already like +10 playlists where you can have fun with skillgap weapons. I haven't even brought splinter nades or spartan charge into the conversation, but if I do I only get more points in my favor to let you see that the game isn't competitive at all.
I am casual yes, but I consider myself one of those few who stick with the game, I don't play many games to begin with, but I have played other shooters like Titanfall or Destiny, but none have stuck like Halo. I have taken breaks from it, but I always come back. I get why competitive players want this stuff, but for the game as a whole, I just do not agree with it.

side-note: (So I don't fully understand what your trying to say in the second sentence, I think I may be reading it wrong, If I am not) Then 343 should do what competitive players say for team arena, its the MLG playlist of Halo 5, but I do not think that all ranked playlist should be changed,Their are many casual players like myself who like to play ranked slayer or breakout or swat as much as we play un-ranked modes.

I understand and agree that slowing the game down is good, but if this radar does go to all ranked playlists, I do not think it is the way to do so.
i said it in a post earlier, while "causals" may not care for new radar or HCS, the hardcore crowd (who tend to play 4 hours plus a day) and the competitive players, do care about HCS and ways to keep the game as competitive as it can be, and in my opinion the hardcore/competitive crowd are what keep the game from completely dying in halo's case atleast untill the next release
I get that, but their is also a large casual crowd that sticks with Halo as well, between social and warzone, while warzone may not be affect, social could, which would technically snowball into custom games which are also doing pretty well in Halo 5. I don't think the game should be melded to competitive players because you think competitive players are all that are left. halo I think is special in that way, it keeps decent chunks of both sides with it till the next game. I can see this radar in Team arena, but I still do not think it should take over all ranked playlist or affect the overall radar for future titles.
Hotrod192 wrote:
I agree with you, I really do appreciate 343i's efforts to try to bring everybody under one roof, and I understand why they tried it. If you look at the big competitive games these days (League of Legends, Dota 2, even StarCraft 2 back when it was popular), the pros play the exact same game as anybody else. There aren't any special "pro" settings, and with that, I suppose it makes it easier for the casual player to watch the games and understand what's going on. It could be argued that the same train of thought could be applied to Halo 5. If the mainstream players are playing Halo with a 25m radar, but the tournaments have no radar, there could be some disconnection. That being said, I think 343i's efforts just prove that Halo is not League or Dota 2 or those other games, Halo is Halo. Historically, Halo has had different competitive settings for a reason. And, personally, I find watching the pros play with no radar is more interesting, because it's very admirable to see them play in a way that I don't, communicating with their team in ways that I can never do as a solo player.

And you're right, there are benefits to the new radar, I can't argue against that at all. The movement is slower, which I love, and Spartan Abilities are more of an addition, rather than being the centre of gameplay. And you're right, players will fight to the death and try to play more intelligently rather than just run away at any sight of danger. I understand how this radar can be good for gameplay, but I just don't like how those changes are caused.. I wish there was a way to have gamplay slow down a bit and put less emphasis on Spartan Abilities without needing to make the radar so different from how it always worked in Halo.

And I understand why you and others dislike the traditional radar or radar in general. For many players, competitive Halo is built around communication with your teammates. I really understand that. However, for solo/social players like myself, the radar is a great tool for information. We don't have the liberty of being able to talk to our teammates, and we've been playing around using the radar for over 15 years now. To us, the radar was always fine, why change it now? Again, this just leads to my previous point that there should be two distinct settings for social and competitive/hardcore play.
On your last paragraph you wonder why Competitve/Pro settings have to be different from casual/social settings, but on the last one you say social needs something ranked doesn't...??
Tournament settings in Halo have ALWAYS been different than the "regular' MM settings. In fact H5 is the only halo that brought the competitive settings closer to the "casual/social" settings. H3 MLG settings had no radar, BR starts 100%, no automatic or weird weapons on maps, while standard H3 had a radar and many weird weapons. While in H5 they tried to close the skill gap between the noobs, casuals, try-hards and Pros by making the competitive settings (TA/ranked) not competitive at all. Every weapon in H5 is as powerful as the starting weapon and on top of that the starting weapon is a freaking OP AR.

"If the mainstream players are playing Halo with a 25m radar, but the tournaments have no radar, there could be some disconnection."
No. No. And no. If you make the game the same for everyone that means you have to compromise with either making it too hard for new players or ruining competitive settings by making it easy for noobs (which is what H5 is currently doing). There's a reason Pro players are Pro players. The game should allow for competitive players and non competitive players to have as much fun and make use of their own abilities within their own level each on their own playlists.

I understand that a less skilled player will require a radar at all times to show all people within the range at all times (except when crouching). But in competitive game play this only slow downs the game and promotes crouching around corners (with your so hated skill-gap weapons), as a Halo eSports follower, I hate this and it takes away from the experience.
In the end this settings are probably for ranked (and maybe not even TA until after HWC, they can't change HCS settings without letting Pros practice and get used to it first), not social/casual games (unless 343 decides to pull a 343 and put it everywhere) So what exactly are you arguing about?
You're basically agreeing with me everywhere. I'm not wondering why competitive and social always had different settings, I know why they did, and am saying that it was the best way to go. I agree that the path taken in Halo 5 was a bad one, and that the new "competitive" settings aren't competitive.

As for the second point, that sentence where I said that there could be disconnection was saying that those were likely one of 343i's reasons for trying to make one unified game setting for both competitive and social, but then I state that their trial showed that it's a bad idea, and that both competitive and social Halo need different settings. Not once did I advocate for radar in competitive settings. Quite the opposite, in fact, I have stated on multiple occasions that competitive settings should not have radar, while mainstream Halo should.

So what I'm "arguing" about is basically what you're telling me. I believe you misunderstood what I was saying, since once again, I'm saying that competitive Halo needs to have different settings than regular Halo, meaning no radar and whatnot. Basically, you're thinking that I'm all for giving competitive settings a crappy radar, while I'm actually quite against it.
It's great so far! I already prefer it over the new radar. I think it's perfect, at least for me IMO. Hope it becomes the new standard radar for most if not all playlists and future Halo FPSs.
The new radar is pretty good. I feel it satisfies people who thinks Radar doesn't have a place in competitive Halo and for people who think otherwise.
This is my feedback on what the NEW radar could be improved.

- Instead of not spotting player in base movement speed, jumping, sliding or going up lifts. Try make Radar to spot player that are moving higher than the base movement speed. This could help on spotting enemies that are using speed boost, Energy Sword, going up lifts and Soaring, while still not being detected when moving normally or jumping/clambering.
This is basically no radar. People just walk. Not really that great in my opinion.
This is basically no radar. People just walk. Not really that great in my opinion.
Why is "people just walk" a bad thing? Do you prefer players sprinting around everywhere?
This is basically no radar. People just walk. Not really that great in my opinion.
Why is "people just walk" a bad thing? Do you prefer players sprinting around everywhere?
Why do you guys have to take everything to a dumb extreme, I think what is trying to be said is that this radar makes the addition of spartan abilities basically pointless since you show up on radar only when using them.

Why do you have to assume that everyone wants crazy sprinting... geez.
Hey everyone I just got my rank in proving grounds and its platinum, I want to play with other good players who know how to play, if that's you message me here or on Xbox
This is basically no radar. People just walk. Not really that great in my opinion.
Why is "people just walk" a bad thing? Do you prefer players sprinting around everywhere?
Why do you guys have to take everything to a dumb extreme, I think what is trying to be said is that this radar makes the addition of spartan abilities basically pointless since you show up on radar only when using them.

Why do you have to assume that everyone wants crazy sprinting... geez.
Thank you. That's exactly what I was saying. No one uses any Spartan abilities. Everyone just takes easily traveled routes around the map walking and shooting. I know hcs level players do it differently, but lower level ranks refuse to be seen on radar so they avoid ALL Spartan abilities. You can get some assassinations though.
This is basically no radar. People just walk. Not really that great in my opinion.
Why is "people just walk" a bad thing? Do you prefer players sprinting around everywhere?
Why do you guys have to take everything to a dumb extreme, I think what is trying to be said is that this radar makes the addition of spartan abilities basically pointless since you show up on radar only when using them.

Why do you have to assume that everyone wants crazy sprinting... geez.
Thank you. That's exactly what I was saying. No one uses any Spartan abilities. Everyone just takes easily traveled routes around the map walking and shooting. I know hcs level players do it differently, but lower level ranks refuse to be seen on radar so they avoid ALL Spartan abilities. You can get some assassinations though.
I was simply asking for an explanation.. No reason to be dramatic, KnavishPlum.

And "no one uses any Spartan Abilities" is simply not true, not in the slightest. If anything, people are more conscious of better times to use SA's, which I think is a good thing.
i didnt notice any difference between the two trackers
Unyshek wrote:
Hey all! Now that Proving Grounds is live, we wanted to spin up a thread for you to discuss your experience in the playlist. Feel free to leave feedback on the new radar, maps, gameplay, and any other thoughts you have. We're here to listen!

If you'd like to learn more about Proving Grounds and the new radar, you can read up on it in last week's Community Update here on Waypoint. Here are the maps and modes you'll be able to find in Proving Grounds:
  • Slayer on Eden
  • Slayer on Plaza
  • Slayer on Coliseum
  • Slayer on Regret
  • Slayer on Empire
  • Slayer on The Rig
  • CTF on Coliseum
  • CTF on Fathom
  • CTF on Truth
  • CTF on Tyrant
  • CTF on Torque
  • Strongholds on Mercy
  • Strongholds on Overgrowth
  • Strongholds on Eden
  • Strongholds on Plaza
  • Strongholds on The Rig
Jump in and let us know what you think!
i really like this new radar, but i find the normal run invisibility too much punitive.

Why not to keep 25m for sprint, armor abilities and shooting and 18m (or less if you want) for normal run instead?
I really like this concept, that different abilities could show up at different ranges (ie. 18/25), dependent upon their "sensitivity/volume" to the radar. There could be a nuanced blending as well, with an semi-loud event (such as your choice with running) between say 18 and 25 m showing up as a "sector blur" on the edge instead of a pinpoint. Firing, spartan charge, and other truly "loud/motion" events should be visible at long range, but clambering/running only at the 18 m range.
It's cool how they put the radar back to 25m, but only showing gun fire and Spartan Abilitys makes the game feel less like Halo. In other words, it doesn't work well at all and it takes away from one of the best features of the Halo franchise.
My thoughts exactly. Making it so that it only tracks Spartan Abilities and gunfire was an unnecessary; simply increasing the range to 25m would be enough.
I feel as if the motion trackers were blended together it would work better. If the motion tracker was 25m and only tracked spartan abilities and shooting like in Proving Grounds, but the inner 15m radius would function like classic radar, meaning everything but not movement/crouch walking would show up. I fell this would accomplish what the new radar is trying to do without completely gutting the old one
The new motion sensor is not how halo is supposed to be. All the other changes have not been huge hits so why change something that has been the same since halo CE.
The new motion sensor is not how halo is supposed to be. All the other changes have not been huge hits so why change something that has been the same since halo CE.
The radar hasn't been the same since CE, do you ignore the various tack ons they did after? If halo is to be defined by anything it definitely is not the radar. It's not unique enough, doesn't stand out.
I feel as if the motion trackers were blended together it would work better. If the motion tracker was 25m and only tracked spartan abilities and shooting like in Proving Grounds, but the inner 15m radius would function like classic radar, meaning everything but not crouch walking would show up. I feel this would accomplish what the new radar is trying to do without completely gutting the old one.
I really like this new radar, but I find the normal movement invisibility too punitive.
Why not keep 25m for sprint, armor abilities and shooting and 18m (or less if you want) for normal movement instead?
I really like this concept, that different abilities could show up at different ranges (ie. 18/25), dependent upon their "sensitivity/volume" to the radar. There could be a nuanced blending as well, with an semi-loud event (such as your choice with sprinting) between say 18 and 25 m showing up as a "sector blur" on the edge instead of a pinpoint. Firing, spartan charge, and other truly "loud/motion" events should be visible at long range, but sprinting only at the 18 m range.
You guys are all thinking somewhat similar to me. That perhaps what 343i should be considering is a blended or merged Tracker concept. On page 19 I listed what I saw as the Pros, Cons, and Mehs of the Abilities Tracker and provided what I thought would be a modification for improvement (a type of hybrid tracker)...
eLantern wrote:
I think the Pros do outweigh the Cons with this Abilities Tracker when the Mehs are inconsequential as they'd be for HCS. It should have a positive influence on a few playlists, but honestly I'd prefer to see modifications to make it more applicable:
  • Basic movement and Silenced or Suppressed Weapons get picked up at a shorter distance. A distance short enough that it doesn't negatively impact the benefits brought forth with the current Abilities Tracker, but grants some of the important close proximity threat detection that the Motion Tracker granted. It should make close quarter approaches a bit more risky without creating a tool that can be easily abused by defensive campers; therefore, I think the solution is to have basic movement revealed with short range scanning pulses within the Tracker instead of constant active tracking.
On page 21 I provided some additional detail on that hybrid tracker concept...
eLantern wrote:
In other words, I'd like to see the actual pulse that occurs within the tracker (slowed down if need be) used as a scanner to temporarily indicate an enemy's position when they're moving at the basic movement speed and only when they're within a specific short range distance. Perhaps reaching out to the second inner circle of the tracker? Should that range be 10, 12 or 15 meters or perhaps less? Personally, I'm not sure what exact distance would work best, but I think testing could find an appropriate distance.

The most important part of the pulse scanning concept is that it would not provide any constant movement tracking. The idea behind it is to temporarily indicate a player's position once the pulse reaches them (before quickly fading out) and only if they were traversing at basic movement speeds (not crouch walking or stationary) as well as being within the pulse scan's proximity range. The abilities tracking aspect is the only component of the tracker that should provide any potential constant active tracking of a player's movement and in-turn force player's to make tactical decisions regarding their Spartan Abilities based on the risk verses reward of its use.

As for the change I'd like to see for silenced or suppressed weapons it's because silencers and suppressors only truly muffle the noise, not remove it, which is why I think the range at which the tracker picks up on their audio identification should simply be shorter than non-silenced/suppressed weapons instead of an out-right removal. Perhaps silenced or suppressed weapons should only appear within the inner most circle range whatever that distance may calculate out to be? Effectively making them as if they're invisible to most Trackers since if someone appears on your Tracker because of it you're probably getting shot at.
Initially, I was right in line with what you guys were thinking by maintaining the traditional Motion Tracking aspect at a distance that reached out to either 15, 12, 10, or less meters paired with the Abilities Tracker which reached out to approximately 25 meters, but then I realized that it still doesn't address legitimate complaints regarding constantly tracking active basic movements which is that the Tracker can easily become an abusable tool for power position campers who are armed with 1SK weapons and in-turn it doesn't encourage as much offensive map movement for creative tactical engagements. This is why I now think that a better blended or merged idea would be for 343i to make use of the actual pulse animation within the Tracker itself. It would allow the Tracker to temporarily identify basic movements at a limited range and do so without providing too much information -- just enough to notify and alert -- as I believe should be the purpose of the Tracker in competitive settings.

@EternalChampion - By the way, your comment got me thinking about how I wouldn't mind there being a type of sectioned aspect added to the outer edge of the Tracker. A very thin 8 or 6 sectioned outer edge that should have its' sectors turning red to indicate non-silenced gun fire occurring in its area outside of the ability tracking range. The range that sectioned edge could provide indications for could go up to any distance 343i wanted it to reach/cover (30, 40, 50 meters?). I like pairing this idea to the hybrid tracker I've been describing because I think it fits well within the concept of notifying and alerting players without providing too much information and it would make the benefits of wielding a silenced/suppressed weapon even more appropriate.
I really dont like how people can walk away undetected. One change I suggested earlier on another (now locked) thread was to have 2 different radar pings. One for walking, and one for sprinting.

Link to the locked thread.
Profesnol wrote:
I really dont like how people can walk away undetected. One change I suggested earlier on another (now locked) thread was to have 2 different radar pings. One for walking, and one for sprinting.

Link to the locked thread.
So why not push them them then? If they get away it's cuz they were close enough to cover or chose to sprint. If you push them you can predict where they could be, could be many spots. Running away isn't a new concept to this game.

The point of making BMS invisible is to allow multiple paces to come into play, if it's visible then there's no point in doing so besides the ability to have your weapon drawn out. BMS already has issues since you'll lose to guys sprinting at power ups/weapons as well as being more exposed in open areas. Seems like a good trade off to me. I also don't understand what good your idea would be. Unless people are blind why make BMS blink? People will still know someone is in the area.

for the record, crouching isn't "almost useless". You still have the benefit of less recoil when croutched, it's still a way to stay off radar as well as hiding behind cover better which forces people to move around said cover to get an angle on you. BMS also being off sensor doesn't detract from that.
An absolute joke. Using spartan abilities activly penalizes you, while making walking circles around the map the safest and smartest way to play. GG top "skill"
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