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[Locked] Proving Grounds - Official Feedback Thread

OP Unyshek

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Unknown wrote:
Unknown wrote:
Unknown wrote:
this new radar is absolue TRASH, im not ranked close to where i should be nor am i doing bad in the playlist but it has changed the overall play. matches feel slower and people are camping alot more. the storm rifle is already the cheapest weapon in the game and atleast if i see a red dot on my radar i can be ready for anything. BUT YOU COULDNT NERF THAT???!!! Halo has always had radar no need to nerf it. No need to cater to players with no gunskill and need backsmack kills or crouching on auto kills. Radar is a plus to everyone.
Really isn't true when you say halo has always had radar. No radar has always been the ideal thing for competitive play, 343 just refuse to remove it so this test is the next best thing. I just wonder how many of you will continue acting like this is even for the base game, at best it's going into team arena aka the HCS playlist. It's for the people who asked for it, you still have your other playlists if you dislike this one so much.
no it hasnt, and dont quote me on competitive halo when your halo history shows nothing close to mine. just say you need backsmacks
No it hasn't what? Made it into team arena? Probably cuz it's still an on hoing test, i never said it is in there right now, I said that's where it'll go if it gains traction.

rest of you post is worthless to respond to since you seem to carry an ego, and even then my stats play no part in this lol, doesn't take someone to be good to understand better gameplay styles so enjoy your "history".
theres no ego. you dont want radar because you want cheap kills.
i feel like, having a radar, leads to just as many cheap kills as not having one,

because that guy, wouldn't have seen me coming and throw the perfect nade, if there was no radar,. just like, i wouldn't have been able to 100 percent know he was around the corner. which makes it a thinking game, and map knowledge, and predicting. all things that come with game sense and even more so common sense. if you don't know where all the "high traffic" areas, or the corners players tend to hug. on maps that have been out for a year and a half now. that is your own fault. relaying on things like radars and such to find your kills, is a hindrance to have good you can become.

all i see from people against this are the ones who say " how do i know some is behind me 343??" " how do i plan for an attacker who never showed up on my radar 343??"
and what i say to them is,

why don't you check your back every few moments? you know check your left and your right, and then behind you with your right stick?
and why are you waiting to react?? you should never feel like "oh no one is on my radar? it's clearly safe, la la la" you should be the one ready at all times with or without the radar telling you were he is.

and for the record, i am indifferent about walking showing up or not, but 25m needs to stay for sure.

but on the flipside, it is very clear that people relay on the radar far too much, as they act like they don't know how to play the game at all with out it.

this isn't directed at you, just were this forum is headed
Quite frankly I think that if this radar change is something that the Pro Players are pushing for, then I think 343 needs to make the radar changes to the only championship bracket, and even allow the current playlist to remain as a permanent thing so that anyone that can't make it to said bracket but enjoys the play style forced on people by the new radar can enjoy ranked games with it.
Kals Els wrote:
It makes it feel to easy to conceal yourself in a match, because there is no pressure to force you to slow down to crawl stay off radar or throw caution to the wind and just rush in. As you can sprint to a confrontation, and just go into a jog and take the other team completely by surprise, making the matches I've played so far seem to take no real effort. I also think the new radar will encourage more camping as campers don't need to worry to much about getting caught while allowing them to move around faster than they would if they were crouching or just walking slowly. It also makes the Spartan abilities obsolete for the most part which ruins the new movements that you tried to bring into the game, if anything I think the new radar settings would be great for break out but not every playlist, as it seems to alienates anyone who enjoys playing the game with the new movements added while favoring the older Halo fans who even still play the game.
Articulately said, but I disagree. I do agree about it being easier to conceal yourself. But this is a positive to me. It keeps players from getting a kill and sprinting off as much. It encourages players to move a bit more slowly and to stop sprinting. This makes it less chaotic and random (in my opinion) and much more akin to older, slower, more traditional Halo. While at the same time this kind of radar decreases the camping around a corner for an enemy type of play. Since you are free to walk, crouching for an unsuspecting foe is a little more costly.

I strongly disagree with saying Sp. Abilities are "obsolete" now too. That is a wild exaggeration. Sprinting is still very important lol. And ground pounding is perfect as is.
teammate indicators that change colors depending on their status in combat
These only help if you are looking in that direction of action - I am only discussing when you're not looking in the direction of action.

positioning yourself, again basic intuition should tell you to be conscious of your back by staying near walls
I.E. camping...?

I don't play Halo to have to tread carefully around every corner. That's what other games like CoD, Battlefield, Rainbox Six, etc. are for.

This isn't a realistic tactical shooter - it's Halo; I'm a badass spartan in a huge suit of armour, I don't want to be made to feel like I have to constantly watch my back like some form of paranoia and tread every corner carefully. That's what made Halo games so special and different to the competitors; but with a weaker radar it becomes more about surprise attacks.

Obviously it's important to play smart (which I do, I obviously don't run into 4 v 1s purposely), but I don't play Halo to play it like a tactical realistic shooter. I'm a spartan in huge armour; I don't want to be checking every corner

Halo should be about who can shoot a gun better; not who has an expensive surround sound headset that lets them listen to footsteps; not who gets the drop/surprise on who by running after someone from behind, and definitely not who can find a good corner and camp it most effectively to avoid sneak attacks.

I think it's time you reflect upon how [...]
I only need to reflect upon anything because of how radically different Halo 5's multiplayer is. Interestingly enough I was pretty good at every previous Halo game; it's just that as above, the radical gameplay changes in Halo 5 have invalidated my skillset.

I'm taking my time to reflect upon how poor and ultimately convoluted design has hindered the multiplayer of Halo 5. It has very little on Halo 2, Halo 3, or Halo 4. It beats Reach though in terms of balancing. Screw armour lock.

.
Then there's audio feedback like weapons fire, hearing footsteps, Spartan chatter, etc.
The Spartan chatter is arguable when it comes to being helpful. Footsteps/Weapon fire are only helpful if you have an expensive gaming headset with good stereo. Footsteps and Shooting are absolutely useless when you're listening through a television; you cannot insist gamers use a headset and rely on proper audio cues. This was

.
What's more effective to camp with: a radar that shows red dots for basic movement, or one that doesn't?
This isn't about making camping less effective.

This is about stopping people wanting to camp.

I camp less when I have a radar that shows me 25 meters and all movement except for crouching. The reason I camp less is because I don't need to constantly watch my back like paranoia and tread carefully; I can move around the map with a lot more confidence and freedom without worrying about someone running behind me and shooting me. Do you realise how annoying it is playing a Halo game and having to check my back every 20 seconds?

"They changed many things that people have grown accustomed to with this franchise, like BR starts, dual weapons, BTB, etc. Not to mention, it's worth mentioning that the significance of adjusting the radar recently is on a much lesser scale than the heated BR starts discussion, and sprint, and Spartan Abilities, etc. etc. etc. So while sure it may be worth considering, it really shouldn't hold much weight when the arguments for change are stronger."
Battle rifles in this iteration of Halo are vary similar to other Halo games. Dual weapons were pretty much universally agreed to be a cool feature, but pretty useless/impossible to balance. Big Team Battle I know nothing about so can't comment - I don't play it. Sprint is pretty much universally agreed to be a problem, and supporting unlimited sprinting is indefensible.

These gameplay changes are all big and when they invalidate such a huge portion of the communites' skillset from previous games, it holds very much weight. Don't expect fans to keep buying the game if you keep changing it massively with each iteration. I don't buy into a franchise because I want a new game mechanic set each time; I buy it because I want more of the same with a little bit of new.
Artecide wrote:
teammate indicators that change colors depending on their status in combat
These only help if you are looking in that direction of action - I am only discussing when you're not looking in the direction of action.

positioning yourself, again basic intuition should tell you to be conscious of your back by staying near walls
I.E. camping...?

I don't play Halo to have to tread carefully around every corner. That's what other games like CoD, Battlefield, Rainbox Six, etc. are for.

This isn't a realistic tactical shooter - it's Halo; I'm a badass spartan in a huge suit of armour, I don't want to be made to feel like I have to constantly watch my back like some form of paranoia and tread every corner carefully. That's what made Halo games so special and different to the competitors; but with a weaker radar it becomes more about surprise attacks.

Obviously it's important to play smart (which I do, I obviously don't run into 4 v 1s purposely), but I don't play Halo to play it like a tactical realistic shooter. I'm a spartan in huge armour; I don't want to be checking every corner

Halo should be about who can shoot a gun better; not who has an expensive surround sound headset that lets them listen to footsteps; not who gets the drop/surprise on who by running after someone from behind, and definitely not who can find a good corner and camp it most effectively to avoid sneak attacks.

I think it's time you reflect upon how [...]
I only need to reflect upon anything because of how radically different Halo 5's multiplayer is. Interestingly enough I was pretty good at every previous Halo game; it's just that as above, the radical gameplay changes in Halo 5 have invalidated my skillset.

I'm taking my time to reflect upon how poor and ultimately convoluted design has hindered the multiplayer of Halo 5. It has very little on Halo 2, Halo 3, or Halo 4. It beats Reach though in terms of balancing. Screw armour lock.

.
Then there's audio feedback like weapons fire, hearing footsteps, Spartan chatter, etc.
The Spartan chatter is arguable when it comes to being helpful. Footsteps/Weapon fire are only helpful if you have an expensive gaming headset with good stereo. Footsteps and Shooting are absolutely useless when you're listening through a television; you cannot insist gamers use a headset and rely on proper audio cues. This was

.
What's more effective to camp with: a radar that shows red dots for basic movement, or one that doesn't?
This isn't about making camping less effective.

This is about stopping people wanting to camp.

I camp less when I have a radar that shows me 25 meters and all movement except for crouching. The reason I camp less is because I don't need to constantly watch my back like paranoia and tread carefully; I can move around the map with a lot more confidence and freedom without worrying about someone running behind me and shooting me. Do you realise how annoying it is playing a Halo game and having to check my back every 20 seconds?

"They changed many things that people have grown accustomed to with this franchise, like BR starts, dual weapons, BTB, etc. Not to mention, it's worth mentioning that the significance of adjusting the radar recently is on a much lesser scale than the heated BR starts discussion, and sprint, and Spartan Abilities, etc. etc. etc. So while sure it may be worth considering, it really shouldn't hold much weight when the arguments for change are stronger."
Battle rifles in this iteration of Halo are vary similar to other Halo games. Dual weapons were pretty much universally agreed to be a cool feature, but pretty useless/impossible to balance. Big Team Battle I know nothing about so can't comment - I don't play it. Sprint is pretty much universally agreed to be a problem, and supporting unlimited sprinting is indefensible.

These gameplay changes are all big and when they invalidate such a huge portion of the communites' skillset from previous games, it holds very much weight. Don't expect fans to keep buying the game if you keep changing it massively with each iteration. I don't buy into a franchise because I want a new game mechanic set each time; I buy it because I want more of the same with a little bit of new.
"i don't want to be checking every corner" then don't!, just don't complain about suprise attacks and lack of radar, it's not the radar's fault you don't want to cover your own butt
getatme94 wrote:
"i don't want to be checking every corner" then don't!, just don't complain about suprise attacks and lack of radar, it's not the radar's fault you don't want to cover your own butt
You're missing the point.

The point is that every other Halo game didn't make you need to check every corner and check your back constantly.

But Halo 5 does - and I don't like Halo 5 as much for that reason. It's a valid argument.
Artecide wrote:
getatme94 wrote:
"i don't want to be checking every corner" then don't!, just don't complain about suprise attacks and lack of radar, it's not the radar's fault you don't want to cover your own butt
You're missing the point.

The point is that every other Halo game didn't make you need to check every corner and check your back constantly.

But Halo 5 does - and I don't like Halo 5 as much for that reason. It's a valid argument.
Actually they did, it's how beatdowns and assainations occured as well as getting flanked. You "need" to be aware period, radar or not in order to avoid the things I listed. Corners were also a thing to look out for, camping isn't new, especially when people get cqc weapons.
Unknown wrote:
Really isn't true when you say halo has always had radar. No radar has always been the ideal thing for competitive play, 343 just refuse to remove it so this test is the next best thing. I just wonder how many of you will continue acting like this is even for the base game, at best it's going into team arena aka the HCS playlist. It's for the people who asked for it, you still have your other playlists if you dislike this one so much.
But have they said that? Honestly I could see them putting it in every playlist for "consistency" even though Quinn apparently said it was "anti-casual"

As long as its just for HCS, and not for every playlist, I will be OK. I just don't want team skirmish and low-ranked slayer games to become Team Storm Rifles.
Artecide wrote:
getatme94 wrote:
"i don't want to be checking every corner" then don't!, just don't complain about suprise attacks and lack of radar, it's not the radar's fault you don't want to cover your own butt
You're missing the point.

The point is that every other Halo game didn't make you need to check every corner and check your back constantly.

But Halo 5 does - and I don't like Halo 5 as much for that reason. It's a valid argument.
No, you're missing the point lol.

The point is that if you fail to check your blind spots and run into all areas willy nilly, then you will be punished. Take responsibility for your lack of awareness. I mean, just look at what you're saying! You're saying that in previous Halo games that you didn't have to check corners and be aware of blind spots, but what the hell do you think competent players do, let alone campers??? They take advantage of players like you!

Do you not realize this, or are willfully choosing to be stubborn here?
Fishztikz wrote:
Unknown wrote:
Really isn't true when you say halo has always had radar. No radar has always been the ideal thing for competitive play, 343 just refuse to remove it so this test is the next best thing. I just wonder how many of you will continue acting like this is even for the base game, at best it's going into team arena aka the HCS playlist. It's for the people who asked for it, you still have your other playlists if you dislike this one so much.
But have they said that? Honestly I could see them putting it in every playlist for "consistency" even though Quinn apparently said it was "anti-casual"

As long as its just for HCS, and not for every playlist, I will be OK. I just don't want team skirmish and low-ranked slayer games to become Team Storm Rifles.
They haven't said anything yet on what playlists it'd go to, they still need to see if the test will be worth it. So far my speculation is it'll only go in team arena at the least, and various ranked modes at the most, "if" they do anything with it at all. They've specifically said this radar was based off "competitive player feedback" and as you referenced from Quinn it's "anti-social" which gives support to team arena and ranked playlists being the only ones it would go to.

to really fix the issue 343 need to also just give the other modes their own radar that people want this way there's no split or to alleviate it at the least.
What about a compromise of both radar systems. Have 25mm range, 25-16mm can only pick up sound and abilities, 15-0 can pick up walking movement and more. This would please a lot of people, and not discourage sprint gameplayers.
What about a compromise of both radar systems. Have 25mm range, 25-16mm can only pick up sound and abilities, 15-0 can pick up walking movement and more. This would please a lot of people, and not discourage sprint gameplayers.
That's confusing and counter to this test. That would be a buff to the default radar, whereas this Proving Grounds test is to try a nerf. The reason they're testing this nerf is because they too think it may be overpowered as it was.

Note: Nerf to radar, not to players. This nerf to radar is being tested to see if it buffs gameplay.
I feel like 343 needs to accommodate for crouching with the new radar by making footsteps while walking louder.
maybe with a 25mm radar have only 10mm able to detect then, that is a huge advantage and doesn't completely remove an otherwise iconic function in the motion sensor.
Fishztikz wrote:
Unknown wrote:
Really isn't true when you say halo has always had radar. No radar has always been the ideal thing for competitive play, 343 just refuse to remove it so this test is the next best thing. I just wonder how many of you will continue acting like this is even for the base game, at best it's going into team arena aka the HCS playlist. It's for the people who asked for it, you still have your other playlists if you dislike this one so much.
But have they said that? Honestly I could see them putting it in every playlist for "consistency" even though Quinn apparently said it was "anti-casual"

As long as its just for HCS, and not for every playlist, I will be OK. I just don't want team skirmish and low-ranked slayer games to become Team Storm Rifles.
Don't you think its weird you call the same playlist "anti-casual" and Team Storm Rifles?

Am I understanding this correctly? Or is the 18m Radar "team storm rifles"? That one makes more sense to me, but I can't tell. I personally do think that this kind of radar will become standard too.
I don't understand why we just can't have the motion tracker that Halo Reach had. It told you what was around you and to combat that you had to crouch to stay off the tracker. It also displayed if the player was above you, on the same level, or below you.

The radar in this does not do any of this it makes cheap kills and surprises all the plenty. I'm 27 and have played each entry in the series at its prime, and honestly feel that people who are now liking these changes simply haven't experienced previous entires properly. The Halo multiplayer experience has moved too far from its roots, I understand change needs to happen, but not at the expense of the fundamental basics.
I could go on about player movement speed being too fast as well as the use of constant sprint, but I feel this would simply fall on deaf ears.
Fishztikz wrote:
Unknown wrote:
Really isn't true when you say halo has always had radar. No radar has always been the ideal thing for competitive play, 343 just refuse to remove it so this test is the next best thing. I just wonder how many of you will continue acting like this is even for the base game, at best it's going into team arena aka the HCS playlist. It's for the people who asked for it, you still have your other playlists if you dislike this one so much.
But have they said that? Honestly I could see them putting it in every playlist for "consistency" even though Quinn apparently said it was "anti-casual"

As long as its just for HCS, and not for every playlist, I will be OK. I just don't want team skirmish and low-ranked slayer games to become Team Storm Rifles.
Don't you think its weird you call the same playlist "anti-casual" and Team Storm Rifles?

Am I understanding this correctly? Or is the 18m Radar "team storm rifles"? That one makes more sense to me, but I can't tell. I personally do think that this kind of radar will become standard too.
Quinn called it anti-casual. But I think that the new radar promotes people running around with autos (Storm rifles and SMGs specifically) more than the 18m radar does. Or I could just be facing lower levels, I dunno.

I seriously hope this does not become standard in all playlists. Vehicles will be made EVEN WORSE because radar will not pick up someone coming up to hijack, BTB will be come more of a "who shoots first wins," Crouching will literally have 0 purpose other than to slow you down, and I won't go into the dramatic gameplay differences that will go down.

I can live with it being in HCS and maybe ranked, but BTB, Warzone, and many other modes, it would be a catastrophe
I'm 27 and have played each entry in the series at its prime, and honestly feel that people who are now liking these changes simply haven't experienced previous entires properly. The Halo multiplayer experience has moved too far from its roots, I understand change needs to happen, but not at the expense of the fundamental basics.
This is nonsense lol. You really think people who prefer no radar, or even a fair compromise between no radar vs OP radar comes from a lack of Halo experience? What kind of bullocks is that lmao..

You ever stop to think maybe, just maybe there are Halo fans who have played since 2001 but prefer Halo without an overpowered radar? And it's not just "competitive" players as people love to throw around, 343 included. There are many, many casual and/or lesser-skilled players who prefer Halo multiplayer without radar. The radar in Proving Grounds is a fair middle ground to test, so consider the people who have been putting up with radar all these years when they understand what it feels like to play Halo without it.
Well sadly this radar set up it makes the gap from skilled to unskilled huge..
Swords are OP. And makes ctf unplayable if your not in a Mic up team.
Now if this all stayed in its own playlist then I am fine with it. But if it makes it live on all other game types. I am gonna have to say my game time is about over cept for warzone playlist.
Dear 343,
I would first like to say thank you as of late to listening to fans as of the past yeas and so. You've shown this threw the addition of classic Halo weapons and art style mergers in HW2. As to the main topic of the conversation, I do not really see the need to remove walking from the radar. The entire point of a motion sensor is to pick up motion. I have played an entire 10 matches and while I did still enjoy, there was far too much chaotic ambushes, crouching, camping IS still an issue with this radar as it encourages it in the manner of waiting for an opponent and then just firing a silenced weapon. Additionally grenades are constantly being thrown all,over the maps and are annoying. I do though approve of the range increase as it does encourage more tactical thinking. While I can understand more competitive players opinions of removing the walking from the sensor, they've used the same sensor since 2001. They can get over it and instead improve their skills against spirinting/charger players. This radar adds more random grenade tossing, doesn't really help to decoupage sprinting to a very large degree, and does encourage only camping and stealth play. Halo, since its release has encouraged all forms of gameplay. You can switch from playing authomatic weapons to long range, but this new system only encourages stealth and camping. Please do keep the range, but add walking back into the mix. Try making just a range increase test, the less competitive need this radar, and older and competitive players are arguing the opposite as it gives the newer, and less inexperienced some form of support. Experienced players have easily adapted to the current 18mm radar, and can adapt and improve themselves with the 18mm radar. My bottom line is to keep the range, and keep waking on the motion sensor. Just boost the range, please.

-Ultra Grade
Thank you for this. Motion Sensor was/is a great thing for Halo. I never have had too much of a problem against Spartan Charge in Arena... I pay attention to my motion sensor. I can see where they were coming. I find that Motion Sensor allowed newer players to get really good at the game, It also allows more experienced players to counter the newer ones as well as actually having a challenge and proving that their the best/elite. It brings back the chess game of sacrifice/victory and knowing with to fight and win, or when you're fighting for a lost cause. If you're teammate is hurt and you want to sacrifice being able to be seen on motion sensor to run to get them.

Krom088 wrote:
I may have many grips against this game (aiming, SC, Sprint, etc.), but I wanted to try this playlist and clearly : this new radar is a GREAT improvement to the gameplay and to most of the negatives I found about SA.
Basically :
- promotes players movement
- empowers Run&Gun gameplay
- tempers SA abuse (SC especially)
- forces players to actually think about their move and the use of SA
--> Feels more like classic HaloI haven't played for months, but for now I enjoy this playlist.
"- promotes players movement"Not really, as players just move around freely. It makes the game so easy to play, all the skill of knowing when to move and when to not and play a more slow and defensive game is gone. I got over 7 assassinations, with the animations, in one game. Just by simply walking around with an SMG. And they were against Onyx 1700-1800 level players in Arena.
"- empowers Run&Gun gameplay"Never had a problem with this in the base game. Running and gunning is just moving around the map. these new changes do the opposite, as you never actually sprint at all.
"- tempers SA abuse (SC especially)"That's easy to say as it makes them all useless what so ever. I played 10 games without sprinting and doing any of the abilities. Of which Sprint should just be in the game and considered part of base movement capability. Not a Spartan Ability. I'm not a spartan, I can sprint and run.
Spartan Abilities are part of the game and even then, you didn't have to use them all the time. I didn't sprint all the time.
If you don't want to use Spartan Abilites, don't play Halo 5 and stick to the past.
"- forces players to actually think about their move and the use of SA"Not really as you never have to use the Spartan Abilites to be good in this playlist. Just pick up an SMG, Storm or Brute Plasma Rifle and walk around. Super easy and require no skill.
"--> Feels more like classic Halo"Classic Halo, Halo:CE was about combat evolved, it was even in the title of the game. Halo 2, evolved parts about the gameplay, the dual wielding, vehicle boarding, arena style maps. Halo evolves. Games have evolved because of Halo. Halo as a series is arguably the most influencial series to have come out. Mordern gaming wouldn't be what it is today without it. Or else it would've taken a bit longer to get to where we are.
Halo evolved gameplay, games had to adapt to be able to compete with it. Now it's the other way around. Halo fell into a slump, and no matter what it has done to improve, it would revert back. Halo needs to evolve, it needs Sprint, it needs Clamber, Slide, Smart Scope.
Halo 5 made a lot of improvements, especially in the Beta. Best Halo experience ever... except Halo needs to bring back the Health Packs.
Classic MLG didn't feel competitive to me at all. In halo 2, Halo 3 or in Halo Reach. I have always found it way to easy to play in. I can do whatever I want and never have to worry about playing the defensive, even when getting hit.

I don't like this new playlist(putting it ina PG/G term), and if it's put in Halo I'm highly considering to selling or not playing Halo forever, or a long long time. It's saddening to see this in Halo.
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