Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

Ranking is now pointless...

OP VirtualMark

  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. ...
  7. 5
I don't know if 343 has released any details on their exact implementation, but many MMR systems work using 2 values: your actual rating and a confidence factor. When you first start playing, the system assigns you some default rating and has no confidence that the number is accurate. This makes it so early games tend to cause a bigger jump in your MMR, both positively and negatively, as it figures out where you belong. As you play more games, the system becomes more confident that your current rating is accurate and the MMR you gain or lose per game will be less. To increase your rating, you need to prove to the system that you are getting better by winning more games.

It seems like the current system keeps your CSR/MMR/ELO between seasons. I have no proof of this but I am guessing the confidence factor is loosened up a bit to allow your rating more room to fluctuate again during placement matches.

Ultimately the goal of the rating system is to find a point where you win ~%50 of your games when playing other people of the same rank. The rating/rank shouldn't be something you can just grind out games to climb. If you want to rank up you should need to have a positive win rate against people of a similar rank.
MAD S1X wrote:
Your highest rank is always the first and most prominent rank on waypoint. It's still there lol
Personally I like the reset, but feel we should be given the choice, like prestige in CoD
yeah the problem is that the ranking in CoD has no bearing on how you match against other players. its just personal progression, not a skill rank.

If you let people reset their own ranks in Halo you would get the bad kids always trying to rank up, the really really good kids trying to maintain their Champion no matter what, then you would get a whole population of Diamond/Onyx players, that worry too much about their K/D, resetting their rank just so they can play against BK's again and again and essentially pubstomp them. This would of course make the Diamond/Onyx tiers less populated with appropriate players and the Bronze -> Platinum lists overpopulated with Diamond/Onyx's.

Skill Ranks are good, your highest rank ever is preserved on Waypoint, they just need to make it visible in the Halo 5 UI as well:
"Highest Rank Achieved [highests rank],[season]" The important thing is season length and the number of required placement matches. Since you cant really start your climb until you get your initial placement, they need to find the sweet spot between ranking accuracy/number of placement matches.
MAD S1X wrote:
Your highest rank is always the first and most prominent rank on waypoint. It's still there lol
Personally I like the reset, but feel we should be given the choice, like prestige in CoD
Sure we can still see it, but I want to see it myself every time I log onto the game. I wanna be able to see the ranks I worked hard for when I go to matchmaking, and now the rank I worked hard for is gone. Using Halo 3 as an example, if I worked hard to get a 50 in, say, Team Slayer, why would I wanna have to redo all of that hard work after I already did my time for the rank? I don't know how else to describe the way I feel about it to someone who doesn't feel the same way. I just want to keep having the pleasure of seeing my hard earned rank whenever I go into the matchmaking menu, you know? I like the grind for ranks, I just don't want the rank taken away from me every month and a half or so

If we were given the choice to reset ranks, I would choose not to. I play Halo often enough that I'm not gonna just start getting bad all of a sudden, so if I reached Onyx and I continue to play and improve, chances are I'm still gonna deserve that Onyx by the end of January
Yeah but in a 50 system it took you likely months to get that 50. Some people got Onyx after 10 games.
It took me about 2 weeks to get my first 50 in Halo 3.
I find that the ranking system does a good job of matching you up with players of similar skill (which is good). I also find that I don't care that much about my rank after my 10 placement games. I don't play nearly enough to even rank up a whole level after my placement. I find good guys to play with for my placement games and after that, sure I want to win, but I'm not stressed about it nor do I care after that.
MAD S1X wrote:
Your highest rank is always the first and most prominent rank on waypoint. It's still there lol
Personally I like the reset, but feel we should be given the choice, like prestige in CoD
Sure we can still see it, but I want to see it myself every time I log onto the game. I wanna be able to see the ranks I worked hard for when I go to matchmaking, and now the rank I worked hard for is gone. Using Halo 3 as an example, if I worked hard to get a 50 in, say, Team Slayer, why would I wanna have to redo all of that hard work after I already did my time for the rank? I don't know how else to describe the way I feel about it to someone who doesn't feel the same way. I just want to keep having the pleasure of seeing my hard earned rank whenever I go into the matchmaking menu, you know? I like the grind for ranks, I just don't want the rank taken away from me every month and a half or so

If we were given the choice to reset ranks, I would choose not to. I play Halo often enough that I'm not gonna just start getting bad all of a sudden, so if I reached Onyx and I continue to play and improve, chances are I'm still gonna deserve that Onyx by the end of January
Yeah but in a 50 system it took you likely months to get that 50. Some people got Onyx after 10 games.
It took me about 2 weeks to get my first 50 in Halo 3.
Right, if you never lost you could get a 50 in about 35 - 40 games or so in Halo 3 as you would skip over some of the lower levels, provided you did that with the first games you played. The more you played in a particular playlist, the harder it was to move your rank.

Now it only takes 10 games to achieve the same effect. Obviously the system has been (over)corrected to prevent players from ranking up too easily, so they will need to tone it down for the next season.

Personally, I think the rank system shouldn't place players in Onyx or Champion immediately after the placement matches. Only bronze -> diamond should be eligible upon initial placement, then Onyx and Champion can be achieved by continuing to play. Players should also be able to fall down a tier. Why a Diamond 1 shouldn't rank down to a Platinum 6 if they lose a bunch of games in a row is beyond me now that social lists exist.
tsassi wrote:
You're missing the point of a ranking system. It's not a progression system. The purpose of the system is not to give you something to work for, but to give an estimate of your skill compared to other players. Sure, you can work to get better at the game, but you shouldn't get too attached to your rank, or think that you need to get to the highest rank.

In this context, resetting ranks every now and then makes some sense because people's skills change over time. Resetting the ranks ensures that the rank remains responsive to changes in skill.

If you're more interested in having some kind of permanent trophy for your achievements, then maybe you shouldn't be so concerned about your current rank. Your service record does retain your all time highest CSR, which is probably what you should be working for if that's your thing.
Someone understands.
Apoll0 wrote:
MAD S1X wrote:
Your highest rank is always the first and most prominent rank on waypoint. It's still there lol
Personally I like the reset, but feel we should be given the choice, like prestige in CoD
Sure we can still see it, but I want to see it myself every time I log onto the game. I wanna be able to see the ranks I worked hard for when I go to matchmaking, and now the rank I worked hard for is gone. Using Halo 3 as an example, if I worked hard to get a 50 in, say, Team Slayer, why would I wanna have to redo all of that hard work after I already did my time for the rank? I don't know how else to describe the way I feel about it to someone who doesn't feel the same way. I just want to keep having the pleasure of seeing my hard earned rank whenever I go into the matchmaking menu, you know? I like the grind for ranks, I just don't want the rank taken away from me every month and a half or so

If we were given the choice to reset ranks, I would choose not to. I play Halo often enough that I'm not gonna just start getting bad all of a sudden, so if I reached Onyx and I continue to play and improve, chances are I'm still gonna deserve that Onyx by the end of January
Yeah but in a 50 system it took you likely months to get that 50. Some people got Onyx after 10 games.
It took me about 2 weeks to get my first 50 in Halo 3.
Right, if you never lost you could get a 50 in about 35 - 40 games or so in Halo 3 as you would skip over some of the lower levels, provided you did that with the first games you played. The more you played in a particular playlist, the harder it was to move your rank.

Now it only takes 10 games to achieve the same effect. Obviously the system has been (over)corrected to prevent players from ranking up too easily, so they will need to tone it down for the next season.

Personally, I think the rank system shouldn't place players in Onyx or Champion immediately after the placement matches. Only bronze -> diamond should be eligible upon initial placement, then Onyx and Champion can be achieved by continuing to play. Players should also be able to fall down a tier. Why a Diamond 1 shouldn't rank down to a Platinum 6 if they lose a bunch of games in a row is beyond me now that social lists exist.
I actually agree with everything here. I was just saying that it didn't take long for me to make it to 50 in Halo 3. Then I became bored very quickly.

Edit: One more thing is should someone drop from Onyx? I am Champion in Swat. Only 1514 CSR. But I can barely move up because everyone is lower. I won like 6 games straight and moved up 0 CSR last night. Lost one and went down to 1500. I would be upset if I dropped from Onyx even though I was like 20-2.
Yeah like whats the point of ranking for month like other games do a yearly rank system, but maybe thats not the best for halo.
but still they should of made rank last 3 months or maybe even more.
You must hate anything competitive. Especially sports.
It really was a dumb idea to do ranks this way. I understand the idea behind resetting the ranks, but I put in a bunch of work to get to Onyx in Slayer during the pre-season and I hated that I only got to enjoy Onyx for two days. Maybe they will make a better ranking system in the next Halo game
Yeah thats the thing next halo game which is ridiculous why do we have wait, why was halo 5 terribly made and why all the bad changes people dont like
its pure and simple 343i has officially taken out every aspect of reward and achievements. You cant have permanent rank or something to represent you reach that rank, and like game achievement dont reward squat like beating the game on legendary=no armor. Im starting to see a pattern one that doesnt reward players. And rewarding players is what keeps them playing duh, thats why online playerbase is droping
the way i see it, people will complain about not being matched against evenly ranked players with the old system and blaming your team because you can't get rankedup to your "real" skill level. with the new system the complaint is that you can't progress up past your achieved rank. i believe this is because the ranking system matches you up with people of very even skill...so what do you people want?

please explain the system you would like to have.
I like it, not for its idea, but because I'm always put in platinum rank after my first ten games. For the next six tiers until diamond, it becomes very easy for me to obtain a 2.0 or positive KD.
Maestro SW wrote:
the way i see it, people will complain about not being matched against evenly ranked players with the old system and blaming your team because you can't get rankedup to your "real" skill level. with the new system the complaint is that you can't progress up past your achieved rank. i believe this is because the ranking system matches you up with people of very even skill...so what do you people want?

please explain the system you would like to have.
The system 343 has using the Agile Methodology :)
I just thought rank only matters if your going to play for money. Or in tournaments. Let's face it, most of us aren't good enough to compete with the pros so why care about rank?
I don't mind the reset, but is one month long enough? Why not every two or three months would that be better?
Apoll0 wrote:
MAD S1X wrote:
Your highest rank is always the first and most prominent rank on waypoint. It's still there lol
Personally I like the reset, but feel we should be given the choice, like prestige in CoD
Sure we can still see it, but I want to see it myself every time I log onto the game. I wanna be able to see the ranks I worked hard for when I go to matchmaking, and now the rank I worked hard for is gone. Using Halo 3 as an example, if I worked hard to get a 50 in, say, Team Slayer, why would I wanna have to redo all of that hard work after I already did my time for the rank? I don't know how else to describe the way I feel about it to someone who doesn't feel the same way. I just want to keep having the pleasure of seeing my hard earned rank whenever I go into the matchmaking menu, you know? I like the grind for ranks, I just don't want the rank taken away from me every month and a half or so

If we were given the choice to reset ranks, I would choose not to. I play Halo often enough that I'm not gonna just start getting bad all of a sudden, so if I reached Onyx and I continue to play and improve, chances are I'm still gonna deserve that Onyx by the end of January
Yeah but in a 50 system it took you likely months to get that 50. Some people got Onyx after 10 games.
It took me about 2 weeks to get my first 50 in Halo 3.
Right, if you never lost you could get a 50 in about 35 - 40 games or so in Halo 3 as you would skip over some of the lower levels, provided you did that with the first games you played. The more you played in a particular playlist, the harder it was to move your rank.

Now it only takes 10 games to achieve the same effect. Obviously the system has been (over)corrected to prevent players from ranking up too easily, so they will need to tone it down for the next season.

Personally, I think the rank system shouldn't place players in Onyx or Champion immediately after the placement matches. Only bronze -> diamond should be eligible upon initial placement, then Onyx and Champion can be achieved by continuing to play. Players should also be able to fall down a tier. Why a Diamond 1 shouldn't rank down to a Platinum 6 if they lose a bunch of games in a row is beyond me now that social lists exist.
I actually agree with everything here. I was just saying that it didn't take long for me to make it to 50 in Halo 3. Then I became bored very quickly.

Edit: One more thing is should someone drop from Onyx? I am Champion in Swat. Only 1514 CSR. But I can barely move up because everyone is lower. I won like 6 games straight and moved up 0 CSR last night. Lost one and went down to 1500. I would be upset if I dropped from Onyx even though I was like 20-2.
Right, i agree also.

I still think you should be able to drop ranks from one tier to another when you lose too much. I would be upset if i dropped from Onyx too if i went 20-2, but if you had been gaining points for those 6 games that you won, it wouldn't be an issue. There should be at least a minimum number of points that you gain by winning regardless of competition, you should never gain 0 points if you win. Period.
Apoll0 wrote:
Apoll0 wrote:
MAD S1X wrote:
Your highest rank is always the first and most prominent rank on waypoint. It's still there lol
Personally I like the reset, but feel we should be given the choice, like prestige in CoD
Sure we can still see it, but I want to see it myself every time I log onto the game. I wanna be able to see the ranks I worked hard for when I go to matchmaking, and now the rank I worked hard for is gone. Using Halo 3 as an example, if I worked hard to get a 50 in, say, Team Slayer, why would I wanna have to redo all of that hard work after I already did my time for the rank? I don't know how else to describe the way I feel about it to someone who doesn't feel the same way. I just want to keep having the pleasure of seeing my hard earned rank whenever I go into the matchmaking menu, you know? I like the grind for ranks, I just don't want the rank taken away from me every month and a half or so

If we were given the choice to reset ranks, I would choose not to. I play Halo often enough that I'm not gonna just start getting bad all of a sudden, so if I reached Onyx and I continue to play and improve, chances are I'm still gonna deserve that Onyx by the end of January
Yeah but in a 50 system it took you likely months to get that 50. Some people got Onyx after 10 games.
It took me about 2 weeks to get my first 50 in Halo 3.
Right, if you never lost you could get a 50 in about 35 - 40 games or so in Halo 3 as you would skip over some of the lower levels, provided you did that with the first games you played. The more you played in a particular playlist, the harder it was to move your rank.

Now it only takes 10 games to achieve the same effect. Obviously the system has been (over)corrected to prevent players from ranking up too easily, so they will need to tone it down for the next season.

Personally, I think the rank system shouldn't place players in Onyx or Champion immediately after the placement matches. Only bronze -> diamond should be eligible upon initial placement, then Onyx and Champion can be achieved by continuing to play. Players should also be able to fall down a tier. Why a Diamond 1 shouldn't rank down to a Platinum 6 if they lose a bunch of games in a row is beyond me now that social lists exist.
I actually agree with everything here. I was just saying that it didn't take long for me to make it to 50 in Halo 3. Then I became bored very quickly.

Edit: One more thing is should someone drop from Onyx? I am Champion in Swat. Only 1514 CSR. But I can barely move up because everyone is lower. I won like 6 games straight and moved up 0 CSR last night. Lost one and went down to 1500. I would be upset if I dropped from Onyx even though I was like 20-2.
Right, i agree also.

I still think you should be able to drop ranks from one tier to another when you lose too much. I would be upset if i dropped from Onyx too if i went 20-2, but if you had been gaining points for those 6 games that you won, it wouldn't be an issue. There should be at least a minimum number of points that you gain by winning regardless of competition, you should never gain 0 points if you win. Period.
Yes - I agree. There would have to be a tweak to the Onyx CSR if you could drop tiers.
I love it... I've even dropped since the reset... So what am I gonna do... Well once I have more time to play, I'll grind away and do even better... I'm for it

I think I'm becoming a fanboy
Apoll0 wrote:
MAD S1X wrote:
Your highest rank is always the first and most prominent rank on waypoint. It's still there lol
Personally I like the reset, but feel we should be given the choice, like prestige in CoD
Sure we can still see it, but I want to see it myself every time I log onto the game. I wanna be able to see the ranks I worked hard for when I go to matchmaking, and now the rank I worked hard for is gone. Using Halo 3 as an example, if I worked hard to get a 50 in, say, Team Slayer, why would I wanna have to redo all of that hard work after I already did my time for the rank? I don't know how else to describe the way I feel about it to someone who doesn't feel the same way. I just want to keep having the pleasure of seeing my hard earned rank whenever I go into the matchmaking menu, you know? I like the grind for ranks, I just don't want the rank taken away from me every month and a half or so

If we were given the choice to reset ranks, I would choose not to. I play Halo often enough that I'm not gonna just start getting bad all of a sudden, so if I reached Onyx and I continue to play and improve, chances are I'm still gonna deserve that Onyx by the end of January
Yeah but in a 50 system it took you likely months to get that 50. Some people got Onyx after 10 games.
It took me about 2 weeks to get my first 50 in Halo 3.
Right, if you never lost you could get a 50 in about 35 - 40 games or so in Halo 3 as you would skip over some of the lower levels, provided you did that with the first games you played. The more you played in a particular playlist, the harder it was to move your rank.

Now it only takes 10 games to achieve the same effect. Obviously the system has been (over)corrected to prevent players from ranking up too easily, so they will need to tone it down for the next season.

Personally, I think the rank system shouldn't place players in Onyx or Champion immediately after the placement matches. Only bronze -> diamond should be eligible upon initial placement, then Onyx and Champion can be achieved by continuing to play. Players should also be able to fall down a tier. Why a Diamond 1 shouldn't rank down to a Platinum 6 if they lose a bunch of games in a row is beyond me now that social lists exist.
So you get your rank easy and players who are better than you have to grind for theirs? The only thing I see here is "I didn't get Onyx so why should other people? It's not fair!". I like the current system. It's better now than during the pre-season because you can actually rank higher in the Tiers. In the pre-season, even if you played good enough to be Diamond 6, you'd still place Diamond 1.
  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. ...
  7. 5