Ranking system

This game has the worst ranking system.
Why can’t it be fixed?
This is why so many people quit playing h5

eLantern wrote:

It's easily one of the, if not the, best ranking systems available.

What in your opinion needs to be fixed?

There are countless reasons for why any number of people may have moved on from playing Halo 5, but if their reason is a belief that the ranking system is broken or just a poor system they're simply deceiving themselves of a legitimate reason. But in the end, anyone is free to feel/believe however they want about it even if it's a wrongful perspective.

It's much better than it once was for sure, but many people left during the csr inflation time. That was a pretty bad time for this game. The ranking system is good, but like anything...it isn't perfect, nor is it full proof from certain types of exploits. I look forward to halo infinites ranking system since it should improve upon what we have now, and with a healthy population, really reflect how good it is...because right now, I can understand the frustration. I play almost every day.

Even still....people will still do the usual to try and sway MM in their favor. Hopefully it isn't that bad though.

eLantern wrote:

Pheinted wrote:

eLantern wrote:

It's easily one of the, if not the, best ranking systems available.

What in your opinion needs to be fixed?

There are countless reasons for why any number of people may have moved on from playing Halo 5, but if their reason is a belief that the ranking system is broken or just a poor system they're simply deceiving themselves of a legitimate reason. But in the end, anyone is free to feel/believe however they want about it even if it's a wrongful perspective.

It's much better than it once was for sure, but many people left during the csr inflation time. That was a pretty bad time for this game. The ranking system is good, but like anything...it isn't perfect, nor is it full proof from certain types of exploits. I look forward to halo infinites ranking system since it should improve upon what we have now, and with a healthy population, really reflect how good it is...because right now, I can understand the frustration. I play almost every day.

Even still....people will still do the usual to try and sway MM in their favor. Hopefully it isn't that bad though.

No doubt it's not perfect. The biggest issue remaining in my opinion is the 1-game delay or lag effect which will likely not get fixed unless Halo 5 received a full overhaul at some point down the road. And that assumes that the system being designed for Infinite has managed to remove that CSR lag. I do agree that it's in a much, MUCH better state nowadays than it was in the past. Nevertheless, given its current state it's easily one of, if not the, best ranking systems available which is why I say as much. And with a healthy population throughout the skill spectrum a lot of the current complaints aimed at CSR probably wouldn't exist; at least, to the percentage degree that they do now. Total complaints may go up only because a relation exists between the increase in population and an increase to the number of people who are likely ignorant of what CSR should actually be representative of. Some people just want their CSR to be a representation of playlist experience and/or pure win% which by themselves lack the necessary context to reflect skill accurately.

The thing about the common exploit is that it's often extremely temporary. And because many of those who may be motivated to engage in it are often quite ignorant of the underlying system's functionality and capability only the image of the exploit often remains after it has been initially enacted. This is deceptive not only to those believing they're continuing to enact it, but also to those they face off against because in actuality the visual indicator only remains as a false pretense of someone who previously did partake in the exploit. The visual indicator remains in-place for an extended period of time afterwards due to CSR gain/loss limits which then causes CSRs to appear significantly off from where an MMR may actually exist at the moment. That's not to say that there may not be some highly motivated groups of individuals who do understand the system well enough and are willing to make the extra effort needed to continue exploiting the system on a fairly regular basis like even creating new accounts for nearly every match or every few matches. But, that still comes with a very VERY high risk of being caught by the system and needless to say is extremely time consuming to keep doing on the regular.

EDIT: Oh, and let us not forget that complaints will always exists in some form or another because people more often than not believe that their skill in how it relates to game-to-game performance exists in a pretty linear fashion with a steady upward trend where as in reality game-to-game performance is usually quite volatile with a slight upward trend over an extended period of time when their play-time is able to remain somewhat consistent.

Totally get your points . Those individuals do exist. Honestly, when I encountered a certain player i actually played with months back...the entire exploit i was pretty unaware of just how much it can affect the matches, how it affects what players MM pulls to your matches, how the skill discrepancy within the team using the exploit affects the overal gains and losses, etc etc. It wasn't until recently that it all began to make sense....in terms of some of the matches I have at times. Those "wth" moments where it looks like 4 randoms brought together when in reality, it's a strategically crafted team. When you realize...oh....that's why the silver/ gold is on that team.

It's crazy bro. I don't get why people do it...the visual representation....yea...I'm sure it looks cool...but it's empty at that point man. I myself just play because I love the game.

I share this story...because it really hit me at that point. It hit me why In some of my matches I face what I think...is a group of 4 randoms where 1 or 2 can be onyx or even champ level at times....running with lower players. So sometimes....sure....it's quite possible that they're all just friends...but....I'm not that naive. I know it isn't always the case...and seeing God tier low spartan rank players or dummy accts just occupying space....is becoming the norm sometimes unfortunately .

So when people throw up their arms at the game not understanding it....I kinda get it you know? Not many of them venture into waypoint unfortunately, and don't get how things work...why they happen, etc. ESPECIALLY why winning 20 games in a row doesn't necessarily mean you'll jump up a few ranks. It just doesn't work that way.

And at the age of 35...with these tired as hell thumbs..I know ALL about match to match inconsistencies man haha.

I feel like there should be a link in the game to explain the ranking system sometimes. Some of us have played this game since the beginning and still don't fully get it. In the fire teams I'm in daily..bro its a daily discussion.

"Why does this dude gain so much progress and I gain nothing? We both won...I got more kills, less deaths, more damage, more everything except deaths. "

I think I understand it and try to explain it. Sometimes it helps, sometimes the player just Shruggs it off. At least we're having a good time. Sometimes I don't understand it either though.

Kashyy wrote:

eLantern wrote:

It's easily one of the, if not the, best skill-based ranking systems available.

What in your opinion needs to be fixed?

There are countless reasons for why any number of people may have moved on from playing Halo 5, but if their reason is a belief that the ranking system is broken or just a poor system they're simply deceiving themselves of a legitimate reason. But in the end, anyone is free to feel/believe however they want about it even if it's a wrongful perspective.

Gears 5 ranking is more accurate and miles better than this.

In regards to accuracy: Not. Even. Close.

While Gears 5 uses TrueSkill2 as its skill assessor system it’s not featured within the function and reflection of its visual ranking system; meaning, a player’s visual skill rank that‘s earned isn’t held to, or defined by, the player’s TrueSkill.

Halo 5’s visual ranking system (CSR) is designed to do exactly that, but it also features rules that are aimed at ensuring match outcomes dictate a specific type of rank adjustment while also curbing the adjustment volatility in comparison to the match-to-match changes that can be achieved in TrueSkill. In other words, CSR is intended to converge and follow a player’s Match-Make Rating (MMR) while acting as a refined reference indicator in order to smooth out the match-to-match adjustments.

Even Gears 5’s ranked matchmaking process doesn’t feature TrueSkill2 at the forefront in formulating its competitively balanced matches. It seems to be reserved for lobby balancing by the team picker system while leaving the matchmaking system to rely on the game’s visual progression ranks and Gear Points (GP) to dictate player availability.

Those visual progression ranks are not even in the same stratosphere as TrueSkill2 in terms of accurately predicting player performance and match outcome relative to player skills. Therefore Gears 5’s matchmaking system isn’t focused on promoting an optimal skill-based matchmaking experience due to relying on its visual progression ranks for its search parameters instead of TrueSkill2. Not to mention, the GP system ultimately adds an extra limiting factor towards the available population for matchmaking.

Gears 5 clearly isn’t focused on providing a visual rank system aimed at accurately representing a player‘s TrueSkill. Nor is it prompt in reflecting any sense of a player’s actual skill. While the ranking system offers a form of player skill representation by design it functions as a hybrid system. A system that’s highly influenced and focused around an experience progression grind instead of accurately representing a player’s TrueSkill.

And while you may personally prefer a hybrid ranking system, which promotes an engaging progression grind, that does not equate to it being a more accurate skill-based ranking system. But, [I repeat myself] you’re free to believe whatever you want even if it’s extremely wrong.

You should really give this GDC talk a watch and read over some of the posts from ZaedynFel
https://www.gdcvault.com/play/1025241/Significantly-Improving-Your-Skill-System

Kashyy wrote:

A system that doesn’t track details such as assists, weapon pick-ups, protection that serves importance in games is not accurate in the slightest. Bungle tried that approach with reach and it didn’t work. There are so many other variables that occurs in a game that makes the “skill-based” ranking system useless. I’ll say it again; getting ONE CSR when you go up against champions is ridiculous and there’s absolutely nothing that you can say that will validate it. To win, it takes more than a high KPM and a Low DPM. Any competitive person will tell you that. Once again, There are things where you can’t put a number on that determine whether you win or lose the game.

A system that tracks details such as assists, weapon pick-ups, so-called “protection” (that may be important in your eyes), etc. but in turn is made less accurate at predicting match outcomes, as well as player performances, isn’t actually serving its primary purpose which is to accurately predict outcomes. Regardless of what you or I may believe is necessary information in order to be a more accurate system the fact is that the win itself (as a measurable factor) already encompasses many metrics we may think are critical from a stand-alone perspective.

As Josh Menke has explained, 343i tested every possible performance metric available in order to maximize the TrueSkill2’s accuracy at predicting match outcomes. This included assists, damage dealt, aim accuracy, and numerous others. This even included all the in-game medals too. What they discovered in their search for maximum predictive accuracy was that many metrics caused redundancy and complexity issues that lessened accuracy. Tracking Kills-Per-Minute (KPM), and to a much lesser weight Deaths-Per-Minute (DPM), relative to opponent skill proved to be the actual vital individual performance metrics that led to maximum predictive accuracy regarding match outcomes. So why do you demand that metrics which were proven to detract from reaching peak accuracy be included?

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I’ll say it again; getting ONE CSR when you go up against champions is ridiculous and there’s absolutely nothing that you can say that will validate it.

You seem to be overlooking the fact that Halo 5’s foundational design caused a limitation regarding the capability of the CSR to update with information in real time. It can’t do so with all information. This has left the CSR adjustments, relative to the most recent individual match performance, delayed by at least a match.

This is because the CSR system is restricted to comparing pre-match MMRs post-match and not post-match MMRs post-match. Therefore, CSR adjustments aren’t able to reflect the concluded match’s individual skill performance adjustments. It’s only able to adjust based on the W/L outcome relative to the known pre-match skills. In other words, the real drawback to this CSR system is the minimum 1-match lag that exists regarding individual performance influences; otherwise, it’s an outstanding system that still centralizes TrueSkill as it’s purposeful reflection. The hope is that Infinite will be designed to provide a more real time reflection instead of dealing with a lag factor.

As for earning 1 CSR after defeating a team with a champ, or champs, you’ll have to be a bit more specific (and ideally provide links to particular examples) because without context there could be any number of reasons why it occurred.

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That is why gears matchmaking system is more superior to halo 5. It’s premise is that every single thing that you do gets awarded, and at the end of the match, the winners gets a well deserved bonus.

The reward you refer to is essentially superficial. It’s not tied to an accurate metric of skill that possesses rank integrity. But I’m sure it feels good to see in-game achievements and accomplishments receiving obvious and gracious recognition, so I get the sentiment. Heck, it’s why I’ve said you’re free to prefer a hybrid style rank system. It’s okay to like a system that’s less concerned about reflecting accurate player skill indications or providing quality skill-based matchmaking. It’s okay to prefer a system that prioritizes an experience grind, but with skill-based components. And then ties a lavish point-based recognition system to it that gatekeeps the ranked population.

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And if I’m so wrong; why did the majority of the halo community abandoned halo 5 if the system is so superior? I’ve been a consistent halo 5 player since launch and I experience a huge dip in population and skill level ever since the implementation of the revised truskill. The system is inaccurate and ridiculous.

TrueSkill2 wasn’t fully implemented until nearly 3 years post release.
TrueSkill2 (the Skill Assessor), CSR, the Team Picker, and the Matchmaker were receiving improvement tweaks up until early-ish 2020.
Community ignorance remains a big problem.
Personal preference differences do exist.
The title is over 5 years old now.
It hasn’t received any new content or updates beyond playlist rotations for some time.
343i’s attention has been directed elsewhere for quite awhile.
Population loss often creates a downward spiral for a title.
Etc.

For a title of its age, that’s exclusive to the Xbox One platform, and naturally possesses an aggressive skill curve with a high skill floor and ceiling I’d say it’s doing alright for itself on many accounts.