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[Locked] Should Sprint/Flinch stay in the Halo series?

OP GH057ayame

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It's a very simple question with a very hard answer. I'm curious as to what the HaloWaypoint population thinks about these two mechanics. Please vote in the poll and leave your collective ideas in a well thought-out post if you wish. Thank you.



OP hijacked by snickerdoodle with Ghost's permission.

Basic rules people, let's heed them please!

Let's lay down some ground rules here people.

1. Ghost has asked for EVERYONE'S opinions, not just one side or the other. If I post and say I like flinch and I think it should stay, that is my opinion and is perfectly legitimate response to the question at hand. Just because my opinion is not the same as yours that does not negate it in terms of the survey.

2. If you cannot make your point without flaming others or putting digs in at a part of the community, then don't post.

3. If you're going to post, please do so constructively and without flaming parts of the Halo Community.

We're all in this together guys. Like it or lump it, EVERYONE makes up the Halo Community as a whole. The game is for everyone and we should be working together to make the experience the best possible for EVERYONE, not just some. If we weren't Halo fans, we wouldn't be on the forums. At the end of the day, we're all playing the game because we love it. For some that means they play professionally/competitively. Others play for fun (whatever that "fun" may be).

None of that matters though. Halo fans come in all types and we should be working to embrace that instead of divide it.

Link to post
Flinch, as it is currently, is awful. It will only be viable if they make flinch less random so that adjusting to it is a skill rather than a crapshoot.

I've seen good arguments for both sides of sprint however. I don't think there is one 'right' answer in this case. Just strong opinions.
No. Descoping is essential to Halo IMO. Flinching made weapons such as the DMR so overpowered at long distance.

Sprint however I believe should stay as an Armour ability like in reach. I like the idea of giving up another ability for it. It worked fine in Reach, but in Halo 4 it is just a melee and sticky fest. The amount of games I have been in with people that purposely sprint around the whole game throwing stickies....
Cheers to Descoping!
Speaking for myself purely, I enjoy sprint.

Flinch is ok for me also.

I think that we need to move past in idea of whether or not feature X is Halo...

If it is in the game it is Halo.


Debate on the merits or shortcomings of a feature is much more productive.
Just keep sprint ,remove flinch and bring descope back.
Flinch adds unnecessary randomness to the game, and also makes long-range weapons easy to pick off anyone that tries to make a move.
Sprint makes it too difficult for map makers to come up with map ideas that work, as it limits freedom in map design.

I say remove both as soon as possible from Halo multiplayer(at least from 1v1 to 4v4) if we want it to reclaim its throne.
Sprint should stay, descoping should return
Flinch, as it is currently, is awful. It will only be viable if they make flinch less random so that adjusting to it is a skill rather than a crapshoot.
Flinch isn't random. It is just highly irritating, makes the game more of a twitch shooter and lessens the skill gap.
Flinch is an absolute no-no, de-scoping was much better.

The quality of the maps seemed to decline as soon as sprint made it into Halo. I enjoyed Sword Base in Reach, I also enjoy Haven in Halo 4. However, these maps do not even begin to compare to Halo 3's The Pit and Guardian, or Halo 2's Lockout and Ascension. To me, even the mediocre maps in past Halo games (without sprint) outclass the good maps in Halo 4 and Reach.
Flinch, as it is currently, is awful. It will only be viable if they make flinch less random so that adjusting to it is a skill rather than a crapshoot.
Flinch isn't random. It is just highly irritating, makes the game more of a twitch shooter and lessens the skill gap.
I assumed the direction in which your reticule flinched was random. Was I mistaken?
Keep Sprint. I could care less about flinch or descoping. Sprint belongs in the Halo Universe. Also it doesnt make sense to have Spartans in High tech armor that makes them fast and all that jazz but doesnt allow them to sprint? Wheres that logic? Also im glad they made sprint default. Its easier to move from point A to point B. And id rather run away/run towards someone than fast walk.
Sprint is tolerable, but flinch must go.
Both must go. Sprint does not add any dimension to the game and has been constantly debunked by several different people as to why this is so.

You want to get to your allies faster? Learn different map routes and shortcuts (there always are.) You want to be able to get away? Learn different map routes and shortcuts. It should always be more effort to get out of a mistake, not less.

Also, I'm not going to bother with the people who bring up the realism argument; that should really speak for itself.
Sprint can ruin map flow fairly easy.Flinch is highly irritating.The only reason it works in other FPS games is because you ADS in them which helps with control, along with very fast kill times.

So, no sprint or flinch.They just don't feel like Halo.
Both must go as they cause far to many problem with map/game design. K2Five expains it far better than I ever will.

It pains me to know that there are people out there that don't fully understand the effects that sprint have on the game.

It goes a lot deeper than someone sprinting away one shot and not dying, it goes a lot deeper than someone sprinting off spawn to finish you off when you were still one-shot from the last battle, and it goes a lot deeper than 'its just copying COD'

It completely -Yoinks!- with scale - that is the issue. Please describe to me a perfect map for sprint, a map that would work better scaled up for sprint, instead of left normal for no sprint. Does such a thing even exist? Can a map possibly be better made for sprint and with sprint, than made for no sprint and without sprint? No, its impossible.

Geometry has to be scaled to the abilities of spartans; the jump height, how far you can strafe in 1 second, how far you can throw a grenade, a grenade explosion radius, the effective range of your starting weapon, how long it takes you to move from one piece of cover to the next, all of this stuff, is extremely important to how the game plays. Yet it is all thrown to the wayside in favor of making sprint work. Maps have to be scaled up (aka overscaled in relation to all previous factors) to account for sprint.

Gandhi has talked about this before; the lack of power positions, but he wrongfully accused the killtimes as the culprit. While slow killtimes don't help, sprint is what really ruins power positions. I have used this example before but I will use it again:

Pink on Midship in Halo 2. That was a true power position and functioned as such, but no matter what we do we haven't been able to replicate the power and feel of the power position in anything we have made since that game. Why is that? Its because of sprint, nothing else has fundamentally changed the game as much as sprint has since then. Currently not even top middle on dispatch rivals the power and counter-strategies (which are equally important to consider) that pink provided.

When you held pink in H2, you had effective means of gunning down your foes as they walked from the base to pink. There was a relatively long journey to make from the cover of the base, to the cover of pink. This meant that it was dangerous as you had to expose yourself for a long period of time to be able to take the tower over. What this meant for the person holding pink, is that as long as they periodically checked the walkways to pink, they were free to shoot from pink and deal damage across map.
But what happens when you add sprint? That long journey is now a quick one, you can now make it into or under pink alive even if the guy at pink was looking at you, the guy holding pink now has to *constantly* check the walkways to pink, instead of just periodically, which means he now cant shoot from there without the serious risk of someone backsmacking him or gunning him down from the side. He also has to have 'internal' battles with people sprinting at pink more often, than actually using the power position. This is why top mid of dispatch, and even pink and gold of simplex, are such clusterfucks and pale in comparison to the gameplay that pink provided in Halo 2.

The fix to this issue some say, is to scale the map up. Make those walkways to pink longer so that it is still along journey to make even with sprint. But that creates two issues:
1) Lessens the effect of shooting from pink - if the rest of the map is further away, the power position has less presence and effect on the map because you cant do as much damage or get as many angles (imagine if pink on simplex was pushed back an extra half-map length, goodbye angles into bases)

2) Over-punishes the attackers. If you make it so a distance is a long one for sprinters, that means it will be impossible to walk. it also means you cant freaking shoot while you push. It makes balancing any area of the map extremely difficult as it needs to be large enough so that you can track players and so that power positions are actually power positions, but not large enough that it disables attackers in such away (not to mention any up-scaling -Yoinks!- with the scale of all the other combat components I mentioned earlier).

And the 'but you get slowed down when you get shot' argument doesnt fix ANY of these absolutely serious issues.

Remove sprint now.
"Is Sprint Halo?" is an unpublicized poll I took on waypoint a while ago. You'll notice even the significantly casual community here at waypoint would rather see sprint go than stay by a small majority. With your poll being publicized there is no doubt in my mind that both mechanics will prove to be unpopular.

Sprint is not only hated in the competitive community. My brother and many of our friends quit Halo because of additions like sprint and they are by no means competitive players. If you are able to change these things please do. If sprint is removed from throwdown, even though my brother has never been very competitive, I'm sure he would return to playing Halo. At this point, with halo's stagnant population you really have nothing to lose.

also, you shouldn't be mad a Quinn for letting the truth come out. Throwdown has always been referred to as a community playlist by 343. All this situation does is give you an opportunity to listen to the community that this playlist is apparently for. Use this opportunity to prove you really have the halo community's needs at heart. Thank you!
As I have said before, the absense of descoping above all else is what's keeping me from playing this game. It's not that I harbour any real distaste for flinch. I just hate the style of gameplay that results from a lack of descoping. Too many people peeking over rocks at the edge of effective weapons range. Being unable to descope players and regroup make campy play too easy, so naturally the kids abuse an exploitable mechanic.

Like has been mentioned above, when sprint showed up the maps got worse. I've seen sprint threads go 16 pages deep, containing some good arguments for and against sprint(mainly against) but to me sprints biggest flaw is to do with how it hurts map control. Never mind the whole HIT X TO UNDO TERMINALLY STUPID POSITIONING thing.

I was also just about to post the link SloppyBottom provided. READ THAT THREAD!
I think neither sprint or flinch should be in halo. Because it just doesn't feel like halo :/
"I think we both know the answer to that."
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