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[Locked] Should Sprint/Flinch stay in the Halo series?

OP GH057ayame

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to debunk some things said about sprint,( plz read all), with sprint, players traverse distances between each other faster, while the maps are made bigger, and you do have the illusion you are moving from point A to point B faster, the distance between you and an enemy player near you is where sprint speeds up the gameplay, with it you have more options to you, you can sprint and jump over the player, assassinate them, shoot them, or double melee them, without sprint, you two keep your distance as you out shoot an grenade each other, without sprint you only have shoot and grenade, the rest of the options are less likely to be used, with it you have shoot, grenade, melee, assassinate, jump over, and flank, a range of combat options, without sprint power positions are OP, and makes holding them too easy, along with making sniping easy, with sprint holding a power position is more difficult and more intense, making the power position more important, along with making sniping more difficult, this separates the good players from the GREAT players. Saying sprint is a COD element is kinda wrong, as COD has sprint, but it isn’t the first to have it, and because halo has something COD has, doesn’t mean its bad or that it is added due to COD influence, you may argue sprint works in COD due to lower health, well, with health like health in halo, sprint makes positioning all the more important, in COD there is the I see you first, I shoot first, I get the kill, in halo without sprint, like it or not, this was the same thing, let me explain in a scenario with no sprint, 2 equal players, both aware of the threat made by the next, both with equal starts, since both know and can see each other, the game is fair and balanced, the better player wins, lets say one player is aware of the other player, but the other no aware of them, this player has the element of surprise, a higher advantage, they are no longer on even footing, and the game is no unbalanced, without sprint the element of surprise aids in giving the player an easy kill, with sprint, the element of surprise is broken by giving the unaware player a chance to get a short distance away, turn around and think of how to defeat their attacker, and create a flanking strategy, returning both players on even footing, the player who got the first shots has his prey with some shields down, but his prey is now aware of the situation and is behind a cover, the player pursues, if his prey nades him and drop shots him, then he is the lesser player, if he follows and get the kill, then he is the better player

to debunk some things said about sprint,( plz read all), with sprint, players traverse distances between each other faster, while the maps are made bigger, and you do have the illusion you are moving from point A to point B faster, the distance between you and an enemy player near you is where sprint speeds up the gameplay, with it you have more options to you, you can sprint and jump over the player, assassinate them, shoot them, or double melee them, without sprint, you two keep your distance as you out shoot an grenade each other, without sprint you only have shoot and grenade, the rest of the options are less likely to be used, with it you have shoot, grenade, melee, assassinate, jump over, and flank, a range of combat options, without sprint power positions are OP, and makes holding them too easy, along with making sniping easy, with sprint holding a power position is more difficult and more intense, making the power position more important, along with making sniping more difficult, this separates the good players from the GREAT players. Saying sprint is a COD element is kinda wrong, as COD has sprint, but it isn’t the first to have it, and because halo has something COD has, doesn’t mean its bad or that it is added due to COD influence, you may argue sprint works in COD due to lower health, well, with health like health in halo, sprint makes positioning all the more important, in COD there is the I see you first, I shoot first, I get the kill, in halo without sprint, like it or not, this was the same thing, let me explain in a scenario with no sprint, 2 equal players, both aware of the threat made by the next, both with equal starts, since both know and can see each other, the game is fair and balanced, the better player wins, lets say one player is aware of the other player, but the other no aware of them, this player has the element of surprise, a higher advantage, they are no longer on even footing, and the game is no unbalanced, without sprint the element of surprise aids in giving the player an easy kill, with sprint, the element of surprise is broken by giving the unaware player a chance to get a short distance away, turn around and think of how to defeat their attacker, and create a flanking strategy, returning both players on even footing, the player who got the first shots has his prey with some shields down, but his prey is now aware of the situation and is behind a cover, the player pursues, if his prey nades him and drop shots him, then he is the lesser player, if he follows and get the kill, then he is the better player
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And sure, some custom game will "suffer", but in the end, custom gametypes is not a justification to keep assets that require modeling, animation, extensive programming and so forth. Which could also be regarded as an integral part of the game.
-Naqser
So you are saying not to do it because it is too much work? Wow, and they say what I suggest is lazy.
Well yes, I am, but you do not understand the reason for it, clearly.

It's not what's lazy or not, it's what kind of resources are spent, what kind of game mechanics they are and the impact they have on the gameplay. AA's are of such an "important" nature to the gameplay, that first developing them and dumping them into Customs could make the game feel lacking.

Customs is not a dumping ground for cut content.

Why aren't we asking for Prone, ADS, Brawling, and so on for Customs only then?

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Well, first of all, instead of asking people to please read what you write, atleast try to properly structure your sentances and divide your post into paragraphs. Use punctuation as well, I found one dot in that single post. Now that I've cleaned it up and made it more enjoyable to read, let's dive into it.

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To debunk some things said about sprint,( plz read all). With sprint players traverse distances between each other faster, while the maps are made bigger, and you do have the illusion you are moving from point A to point B faster.

The distance between you and an enemy player near you is where sprint speeds up the gameplay, with it you have more options, you can sprint and jump over the player, assassinate them, shoot them, or double melee them. Without sprint, you two keep your distance as you out shoot an grenade each other. Without sprint you only have shoot and grenade, the rest of the options are less likely to be used.
With sprint you have shoot, grenade, melee, assassinate, jump over, and flank, a range of combat options.
In the second paragraph that I created, you say that sprint enables a lot more different actions than without sprint. And that sprint speeds up gameplay when players are closer to each other. None of which is true. Sprint doesn't speed up gameplay, it speeds your travel speed up, there's a difference. It doesn't either enable more options to perform. All of the options you numbered could be made in previous games without sprint.

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Without sprint power positions are OP, and makes holding them too easy, along with making sniping easy. With sprint holding a power position is more difficult and more intense, making the power position more important, along with making sniping more difficult. This separates the good players from the GREAT players.
If power positions are overpowered, it's a map design issue, not an issue that always will be regardless of how the map is designed. Either way, seeing as they're called power positions, why shouldn't they be advantageous for those controlling it? Pulling down the usefullness of a power position just makes it less of a power position which damages the flow and map movement. If there are no real points of interests on the map, there's no interest to actually move.

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Saying sprint is a COD element is kinda wrong, as COD has sprint. It isn’t the first to have it, and because Halo has something COD has, doesn’t mean its bad or that it is added due to COD influence. You may argue sprint works in COD due to lower health, well, with health like health in halo, sprint makes positioning all the more important. In COD there is the I see you first, I shoot first, I get the kill. In Halo without sprint, like it or not, this was the same thing, let me explain in a scenario with no sprint.
I'd say you have to ignore anyone referencing CoD when talking about what to have in Halo or not. Instead concentrate on the posts which look at sprint in a pure game mechanical way.

Could you elaborate on how positioning becomes more important in Halo with sprint involved? Because you give an example of how someone in a bad position makes an escape with sprint and gets away with being in a bad position.

Let's move to the scenario then.

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2 equal players, both aware of the threat made by the next, both with equal starts, since both know and can see each other, the game is fair and balanced. The better player wins, lets say one player is aware of the other player, but the other no aware of them. This player has the element of surprise, a higher advantage, they are no longer on even footing. The game is no unbalanced, without sprint the element of surprise aids in giving the player an easy kill.
I think you mean "The game is now unbalanced". Right?

I'm going with that because that's kind of the angle you're shooting for here.

So, one player outplays the other, gets better positioning and has the element of surprise on the other. That's well played compared to the other right? Well now you go in and say that the game is unbalanced, and the reason being that the first player played better. That is the whole point of playing a multiplayer game in order to win, play better and create your own unbalance. Player created unbalance is how a game is won. Even then, sprint doesn't eliminate surprise elements, it's still there. Constant waypoints over players eliminate surprises.

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With sprint, the element of surprise is broken by giving the unaware player a chance to get a short distance away, turn around and think of how to defeat their attacker and create a flanking strategy. Returning both players on even footing, the player who got the first shots has his prey with some shields down. But his prey is now aware of the situation and is behind a cover, the player pursues, if his prey nades him and drop shots him, then he is the lesser player, if he follows and get the kill, then he is the better player.
In other words, a player with a positioning advantage should be denied the advantage because it's unbalanced, and sprint is the way to deny advantageous players their advantage.

So all in all, what I can draw from that scenario is that sprint lessens the skillgap as players who get advantages are denied it. Players at a bad positions gets away with bad decisions and even gets the upper hand.

I don't know if it's any indication of anything, would need far more samples, but I have far less melee kills in Halo 4 per game than I have in Halo 3. So melee kills are far less frequent for me atleast. I melee whenever the opportunity presents itself, but it rarely does. Just recently got to the last stage on the melee commendation, and I'm over 1000 games completed.
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And sure, some custom game will "suffer", but in the end, custom gametypes is not a justification to keep assets that require modeling, animation, extensive programming and so forth. Which could also be regarded as an integral part of the game.
-Naqser
So you are saying not to do it because it is too much work? Wow, and they say what I suggest is lazy.
Well yes, I am, but you do not understand the reason for it, clearly.

It's not what's lazy or not, it's what kind of resources are spent, what kind of game mechanics they are and the impact they have on the gameplay. AA's are of such an "important" nature to the gameplay, that first developing them and dumping them into Customs could make the game feel lacking.

Customs is not a dumping ground for cut content.

Why aren't we asking for Prone, ADS, Brawling, and so on for Customs only then?
Of course it's not a duping ground. I never said it was. I said that it would suffer immensely (and it would). I would do it the way halo 4 does it. Have a slayer type that has armor abilities, and a type that is Halo 3 standard. Then have them side by side in one playlist. That way its up to the lobby weather they want armor abilities. I don't think writing them off as not worth the time is right.

I think they the way the do armor abilities and sprint should be like this... they are on map items (more specifically, you pick what armor ability you have. then have to find an on map item/power-up to enable it. Sprint has its own separate on map device. This creates more Risk/Reward options.

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What you are saying is not promoting balance. The way you explain it, its a penalty because I have enough combat awareness to get to a tactical position. Why should someones bad combat decisions be compensated for with the ability to sprint away?
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And sure, some custom game will "suffer", but in the end, custom gametypes is not a justification to keep assets that require modeling, animation, extensive programming and so forth. Which could also be regarded as an integral part of the game.
-Naqser
So you are saying not to do it because it is too much work? Wow, and they say what I suggest is lazy.
Well yes, I am, but you do not understand the reason for it, clearly.

It's not what's lazy or not, it's what kind of resources are spent, what kind of game mechanics they are and the impact they have on the gameplay. AA's are of such an "important" nature to the gameplay, that first developing them and dumping them into Customs could make the game feel lacking.

Customs is not a dumping ground for cut content.

Why aren't we asking for Prone, ADS, Brawling, and so on for Customs only then?
Of course it's not a duping ground. I never said it was. I said that it would suffer immensely (and it would). I would do it the way halo 4 does it. Have a slayer type that has armor abilities, and a type that is Halo 3 standard. Then have them side by side in one playlist. That way its up to the lobby weather they want armor abilities. I don't think writing them off as not worth the time is right.

I think they the way the do armor abilities and sprint should be like this... they are on map items (more specifically, you pick what armor ability you have. then have to find an on map item/power-up to enable it. Sprint has its own separate on map device. This creates more Risk/Reward options.
But that is what it's becoming.

Sprint is proven to not work well with Halo. Well have an option in Customs.
AA's are getting cut, well have an option in customs.

So the solution to the problem is dividing the gameplay up into two or more parts? Reducing the gameplay mechanics and features in each subsequent part?

How can it be worth the time implementing big gameplay assets with it's own set of game mechanics as a Custom option? If it requires a lot of resources but it's not going to be part of the main default playing experience, I do not regard it as something that's worth the time.

I agree that Armor Abilities could have had a spot on the map as pick ups. I however do not see sprint being a part of that. I do not wish for sprint at all and I do not understand why we're trying to shoehorn it in one way or the other.
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What is flinch?
You know in Halo 4 if you are scoped in and someone shoots are you, you aren't getting de-scoped like in the older halo's, but instead the scope is flinching up and down.
Oh okay thanks....
Ninja wrote:
Honestly there are so many Valid opinions being posted on flinch and sprint that it warms my heart the community understands how imbalanced it is. Great analyzing that Descope is necessary to balance out the snipers and dmrs in the game!

Loving the feedback guys lets make halo 5 the best yet :)
You mustve been dissapointed
Chipmmunk wrote:
You mustve been dissapointed
Please don't revive very old threads, this one is over 2 years old
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