Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

Team Slayer Feedback

OP MM Systems Team

  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 28
  4. 29
  5. 30
  6. 31
  7. 32
  8. ...
  9. 45
Quote:
In December of 2012, I bought an Xbox, Halo 4, and a subscription to Live. Based on what everything I purchased said, these were the purchase requirements for unrestricted online play. So that's about $350 for equipment, and another $50 or so for the subscription (don't remember if I had a discount). So far as I knew, I was all set.

And then IS was made DLC required.

To those who say, "It's only another $10," I really don't care. That's not the point. Forums and customer service feedback is great, but there really is only one way for customers to influence corporate behavior: by choosing to buy - or not to buy - a product. I choose not to buy the product.

I do not choose this because $10 will break the bank. I choose this because I do not like having additional conditions placed on the service that were not present at the time I made the purchase. Choosing not to buy is the most effective way to provide this feedback, so long as a sufficient number of other people do the same. So your arguments that it is only $10 fall on deaf ears.

To those who say, "It was this way in past Halos," again, I really don't care. I did not play past Halos, and even if I did, that doesn't change the fact that I do not like when companies charge for additional gameplay-critical items beyond the initial purchase. That's precisely akin to arguing that since lynchings have been practiced for thousands of years that we should be okay with them occurring today. Simply because something was done in the past does not automatically confer the status of "right". The nickel-and-dime mentality (along with the increasing tendency of game developers to avoid full disclosure on the cost of making the game fully functional) is why - after almost two decades of playing EA sports games - I refuse to purchase anything else from EA. My PS3 sits gathering dust in a cabinet, and has done so since 2010.

To those who say, "What about those who bought DLC?" again, your frustrations should be with the company that sold the product without providing an adequate means for you to use it. Do not blame me. Do not tell me that I must be the one to shell out additional money (however small) or restrict my service that I also paid for so that you can use your optional purchase. It was not my decision for you to buy the DLC, nor was it my decision that a proper means for you to use it was absent. If you bought it with the full knowledge that usage might be limited or impossible, the fault is yours. If you bought it without that knowledge, the fault is 343i's or Microsoft's. In no case is the fault mine. My obligation to your use of your DLC purchase is precisely zero . . . and emphatically so, as I disagree with the pay-to-play marketing method to begin with.

And finally to 343i, based on the current IS population, it would appear that there are a number of others who feel the same. That DLC owners do not have sufficient use of their purchase is your doing. Feel free to take responsibility for selling a product without the providing the ability to use it. Note that passing it off onto the remainder of your customer base does not constitute taking responsibility.

There are several solutions to this, should anyone at Microsoft or 343i be willing to listen. The first general solution is to sell only items that are not critical to gameplay as DLC (such as skins, commendation packs, avatars, early release of features, etc.). There is still a fairly large market for those items, and the barriers to purchase are less, as anyone who is thinking about purchasing knows that his or her use of the items is not dependent on others making the same purchase.

The second solution is to provide the community the proper tools to develop their own content, thus limiting your financial obligation to testing and implementation and avoiding the more costly development phase. Profit comes from both increasing revenue or decreasing costs, and this addresses the latter.

By proper tools, there are Forge-related items discussed here. There is a discussion of a true developer kit here. Were these implemented, there would not be a need to charge for gameplay-critical items like maps because you would have no development costs to recover. The aesthetics, framerate, and gameplay aspects of maps developed with these tools would be just as good (or better) than the CA-produced ones. While testing and implementation costs would remain, feel free to use revenue from cosmetic items for the former, and the latter is trivial in comparison. Alternatively, feel free to use prominent members of the community to provide testing services without charge to handle the bulk of the testing - thus removing virtually all of the cost of providing DLC maps in the first place.

In the meantime, I suggest you try something other than obliterating the population of your playlists to provide DLC owners with a means to use what you sold them.
*slow clap*
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Legendary Carbines and BR's or removal or Legendary BR's and just have Slayer Pro
the best game type in slayer

Legendary BR's


it needs to stay as is
It's awful

Does having Carbine and SR starts harm anyone?
It's one game type
were everyone starts out with the same weapons
just one

you have the rest of the game.
Quote:
Quote:
Also the DLC required was a great move, totally improved the experience of the playlist I keep so dear and close to my heart.
This has become a recurring pattern.

Majority, please see the reply I directed towards FUNZBOB just a handful of posts earlier. Just like him, you are a CSR 50 within the Infinity Slayer playlist, also! As a result, it's not terribly surprising that you would love the DLC-mandatory policy. However, for those of us who aren't top-tier players, we have spent the last week regularly playing against people with CSR ratings that are 20-40 levels higher than ours.

Once again, I enjoy playing on Landfall, Monolith, and Skyline, but if the new DLC requirement essentially breaks the skill-based matchmaking system because the population is so much smaller, it isn't really worth it.
Sounds like more of a problem of CSR and not the playlist or required maps, just as you said

ps, it should be tougher to get a 50 and there should be more of a skill gap ie, if you play like a 20 you should stay a 20, or if you play like a 50 you should stay a 50; it's all about consistency

sounds to me though like you are having more of personal problem, keep playing and you'll rank up if you do well and deserve it.

again, DLC required is FANTASTIC, seriously loving this playlist again
Are we now required to purchase DLC in order to play infinity slayer? I still reeling over the poor fps from the Crimson Map Pack when in split screen mode. So I am not going to purchase DLC. How hard is it to optimize for one freaking platform!!!!

Anyway, I was not aware when I purchased Halo 4 that I'd be required to make maintenance purchases to continue to play the multiplayer which already requires an xbox live subscription...

So... tell me a there is a way to play Infinity Slayer without purchasing DLC or give me a number that I can contact for a refund...

Please don't turn to the dark side 343... don't. I like the Halo universe to much.. I don't want to walk away. But I will if you go cheap on me...
Quote:
Sounds like more of a problem of CSR and not the playlist or required maps, just as you said
If that's what it sounds like to you, then you probably didn't read my previous posts as I had recommended. To review:

In the five months since CSR matchmaking was first implemented, I had been in exactly one Infinity Slayer 4-on-4 game when most of the opposing team members' CSR was much higher than mine. But since 343i made the Majestic Map Pack mandatory in order to play Infinity Slayer, it happens on a fairly regular basis. I will be the first to admit that I am not a great player like you are, nor am I a Rhodes Scholar, but do you really expect me to believe that this new trend is simply a VERY big coincidence in timing?

Quote:
sounds to me though like you are having more of personal problem...
There are others within this thread who have described the same problem, and I can solicit testimonial from several people on my Xbox Live friends list who would tell you the exact same thing. That being said, how many people would need to encounter that same unfortunate scenario before we admit that it's a actually systemic problem?

Quote:
...keep playing and you'll rank up if you do well and deserve it.
Now you are delving into a different subject: the flaws within the CSR ranking system. I play almost every day, my teams have won approximately 60% of our Infinity Slayer matches and my K/D in that playlist is about 1.3, but my CSR hovers around 10. This is because you rank-up based strictly upon your individual score, and deaths don't factor into the equation. That means that being overly aggressive gets rewarded, even if your team suffers as a result. This match provides a classic example of that. Notice the K/D of the top individual scorer in this game compared to everyone else on our team:

https://app.halowaypoint.com/en-us/Halo4/run5k/home/match-1872193bc1b81cde
Quote:
There are others within this thread who have described the same problem
I would say the exact same thing to them too, obviously there are your friends on your friends list due to the fact you matched up with them because they too are a low rank as you said

Quote:
Now you are delving into a different subject: the flaws within the CSR ranking system.
I agree, this is a problem with the CSR ranking, it's been in the game since before this update. I ALWAYS match up against people I shouldn't WAAAY before the DLC required update. Once again, this is a CSR PROBLEM

As for Gameplay and the playlist alone the DLC Required is one of the best things to happen to this playlist in a while
Quote:
Also the DLC required was a great move,
Quote:
the DLC Required is one of the best things to happen to this playlist in a while.
And if I was already a CSR 50 in the Infinity Slayer playlist I might feel the same way, perhaps even enough to utilize bright colors within my message board posts to illustrate how happy I truly am. But in the end, I hope that I would place the needs of the community (and the 99.9% of players who aren't a 50) ahead of my own desires.

The blatantly unfair CSR mismatches aren't just a coincidence... it is primarily because the Infinity Slayer population has now fallen from 50-55% of the size of the Big Team playlist to about 10-12% since the DLC requirement.
Quote:
Quote:
Also the DLC required was a great move,
Quote:
the DLC Required is one of the best things to happen to this playlist in a while.
And if I was already a CSR 50 in the Infinity Slayer playlist I might feel the same way, perhaps even enough to utilize bright colors within my message board posts to illustrate how happy I truly am. But in the end, I hope that I would place the needs of the community (and the 99.9% of players who aren't a 50) ahead of my own desires.

The blatantly unfair CSR mismatches aren't just a coincidence... it is primarily because the Infinity Slayer population has now fallen from 50-55% of the size of the Big Team playlist to about 10-12% since the DLC requirement.
I apologize that you are not a 50, I truly am sorry. But I play this playlist more, I put uncountable hours into it and it's how I like to experience Halo 4. Now please don't think I'm bragging, it just takes time to become a 50 in this playlist. I obviously play a lot more than you so don't you think my say should weigh more than yours? If you played as much INFINITY SLAYER as I do, you should be a 50 CSR or at least have improved enough that you can achieve it, but you don't play this as much as I do. And you are blaming YOUR OWN DOWNFALL in the DLC required change; if you can't beat 50s how do you expect to be a 50?

I understand you play casually and so do I sometimes, but this is a VERY competitive playlist and CSR ranking is flawed as well and it honestly seems like you are making this more about your skill than how the playlist has ACTUALLY IMPROVED

I've said it twice and I'll do it again, this time in pink

The changes to Infinity Slayer are an improvement to the playlist, Keep DLC required.
Quote:
I obviously play a lot more than you so don't you think my say should weigh more than yours?
Wow. Even if that were true, I sincerely doubt that I would sound quite that self-righteous.

That being said, check our Service Records within Halo Waypoint. My "Total Playtime" is actually twice as much as yours.
Quote:
Quote:
I obviously play a lot more than you so don't you think my say should weigh more than yours?
Wow. Even if that were true, I sincerely doubt that I would sound quite that self-righteous.

That being said, check our Service Records within Halo Waypoint. My "Total Playtime" is actually twice as much as yours.
I was always under the impression that Infinity Slayer was the equivalent of Social Slayer from Halo 3. It is the basic Slayer experience, the quintessential "Halo", the one that any average Joe who buys the game may want to give a shot to see "what Halo multiplayer is all about". This is also why I find the DLC stuff appalling and hope it's changed. The basic Halo experience has always been available out of the box, even in H3, where like 90% of the playlists required DLC. Maybe "Big Team" is now the "basic/true" Halo experience, as it's now the main one you can play when you buy a new game.

I thought Throwdown (DLC required) was the main competitive playlist, like Ranked Team Slayer from Halo 3. It requires DLC. It has competitive settings. You play to win.

Run5k, I agree with you about the Infinity Slayer playlist. I don't have DLC so I may be biased in that I want to be able to play it again, but I understand what you're saying when you say that you play for fun and stuff. I know the pop's low but didn't know it was so bad that it screws up skill matchups (again as I can't play IS anymore). I've definitely quit my fair share of games that are overweighted against me, my reasoning being that I paid $60 to enjoy myself and I don't enjoy seeing the respawn/loadout screen more often than the first person perspective of my BR. I didn't know the low pop would screw up rank matchups, and it sucks that that's the case.

Majority, perhaps you should go into Throwdown if that's more of your playstyle. Throwdown is the competitive playlist; Infinity is supposed to be casual fun. Run5k's actual skill is not the issue; it's his/her relative skill. Also, at the risk of sounding rude, the kind of elitism you express by assuming your opinion matters more because you play or pay more is the exact kind of elitism that will destroy this game's population. Doing so risks alienating a large portion of the player base. Your opinion isn't marginal or stupid. It matters. But it shouldn't matter more than a casual players'.

The main thing I'm wondering is why not keep the Majestic-required Slayer and open up a new/old 4v4 DLC-free Slayer playlist. That way those who are currently playing Majestic-Infinity Slayer who are enjoying it, like you, can keep playing it without population drops and enjoy your maps, and the rest of us can play Infinity Slayer as usual. Make everyone happy.

And please don't say "we can't have two such playlists because the population can't handle it". Making Infinity DLC-required has already kicked out approx 5k people who haven't shown up elsewhere (Big Team is about the same). Other playlists have not seen such a drastic (approx 80% or so) drop in population so it's not an "overall Halo" thing (e.g. "Halo players are playing GTA V"). It's purely an Infinity Slayer thing. 5k people left Infinity Slayer and didn't show up elsewhere.

If you like how things currently are, why not then create an extra playlist for that extra 5k people? Your experience won't change. Others' will improve. Seems like a win-win.
If this is indeed an experiment, in addition to requiring DLC, why not tighten up skill and team size matching? Allow DLC owners to play their new maps, but at the cost of increased matchmaking times to allow for fair games.

Or, keep the list as it was but overweight DLC when putting together matches. Everyone can play but matchmaking times will increase so DLC owners can get a good shot at using their maps.

To Majority, FUNZBOB, Vorian, Chemist, and the rest of the pro-change guys:

How is this situation better than having a permanent Majestic-required 4v4 Slayer list in addition to the pre-existing IS list?
Edited by Moderator - Please do not flame/attack others.

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
Spoiler:
Show
Quote:
To Majority, FUNZBOB, Vorian, Chemist, and the rest of the pro-change guys:

How is this situation better than having a permanent Majestic-required 4v4 Slayer list in addition to the pre-existing IS list?
in normal Infinity Slayer play list you have 99.9% chance you play on a standard map. and 0,01% chance that dlc users play on a dlc map.

with Infinity Slayer has majestic required is the chance to play on dlc map 75% chance that you play on a dlc map and 25% on a standard map.

you see the different when a play list has dlc required and when not.
Quote:
Quote:
To Majority, FUNZBOB, Vorian, Chemist, and the rest of the pro-change guys:

How is this situation better than having a permanent Majestic-required 4v4 Slayer list in addition to the pre-existing IS list?
in normal Infinity Slayer play list you have 99.9% chance you play on a standard map. and 0,01% chance that a dlc users play on a dlc map.

with Infinity Slayer has majestic required is the chance to play on dlc map 75% chance that you play on a dlc map and 25% on a standard map.

you see the different when a play list has dlc required and when not.
You did not answer the question. I said how is making 4v4 slayer DLC-required better than having a separate 4v4 playlist that is DLC-required while leaving the existing 4v4 playlist alone?
more lagg,split population,to much play list in matchmaking, and to low population to make 2 separate dlc play list.
Quote:
more lagg,split population,to much play list in matchmaking, and to low population to make 2 separate dlc play list.
Incorrect. The population in IS is the same as what the population in a separate DLC-required list would be. The problems you describe above - if they are real problems - already apply to IS right now.

You can't say that the population cannot support 2 playlists when you change the existing playlist such that 80% of its population disappears.

Would anyone else like to try? Majority? Chemist? Beuller?
Quote:
Quote:
more lagg,split population,to much play list in matchmaking, and to low population to make 2 separate dlc play list.
Incorrect. The population in IS is the same as what the population in a separate DLC-required list would be. The problems you describe above - if they are real problems - already apply to IS right now.

You can't say that the population cannot support 2 playlists when you change the existing playlist such that 80% of its population disappears.
wrong
when the dlc packs have come out it score's good but after a long time you have only round the 60/100 players on it for 3 maps.

Infinity Slayer has score more each time round the 500 and in weekends it can reach to 700 players.
you can play on all 9 dlc maps in 1 play list + the standard maps.

lets tell 343 wane make 2 dlc play list then we have a other problem.
for 2 new maps most become place that means.
you most move 2 play list in 1 new play list.
what for play list most become 1.
but then you have problems with the players that play on that play list that they wane have they own play list back.
Quote:
hmmmmm, for having "twice as much" time played than me you have HALF the amount of kills I do in mm...... makes me believe the time you play isn't primarily in mm or EVEN INFINITY SLAYER...
Take a closer look at our respective Halo 4 service records. Currently, I have completed 3490 matchmaking games (2089 slayer) while you have finished 1921 matches (1171 slayer).

So, now it sounds like the following condescending quote should be reversed:

Quote:
I obviously play a lot more than you so don't you think my say should weigh more than yours?
Edited by Moderator - Please do not flame/attack others.

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
Spoiler:
Show
  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 28
  4. 29
  5. 30
  6. 31
  7. 32
  8. ...
  9. 45