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Team Slayer Feedback

OP MM Systems Team

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Don't get me wrong i have ALL the maps and would never get to play them if it wasn't DLC required but im willing to give that up for the people .
You, sir, have my respect.

With that said, it is wrong that you do not have a place to play the DLC you bought. I had hoped that the DLC requirement on the rotational playlist would be a good substitute (and posted that in the KoTH feedback), but given the population, it's not looking that way.

I'm wondering how making something like Ricochet DLC-required would fare. It's a cool gametype - and it wasn't part of the package that most of us bought initially - so it's really hard for any of us non-DLC folks to argue that making it DLC-required is unfair or wrong.

Failing that, I think there are only 2 real possibilities for H4:

1. 343i implementing a toggle for DLC owners to choose whether they want to be matched with ONLY DLC players (applied to all playlists), such that, if you want to play DLC, you can. But if you want quicker matching, etc., or don't mind non-DLC at that time, you can also join the non-DLC pool. This would only be viable if, when you select that toggle, the ONLY maps that come up are DLC . . . it would suck to take the wait penalty only to get Solace, Abandon, and Scythe.

2. Offering DLC at a massive discount (or free).

I know #2 would piss off some DLC owners (and Microsoft / 343i may not even consider it to begin with), but it would seem to be the only guaranteed way to ensure DLC owners could play it.
At no point in time should the jip system try and split my team/party up and put us in a game vs each other .

If it takes a few more min to fond a game fine but don't split up people searching together EVER
I REALLY don't play Xbox as often as I used to, though my children do and we use them for other purposes. My ONE series that I have followed and played whenever I do log onto play Xbox has been the Halo series. I haven't played for a couple of months and then tonight I logged in needing to update, fine, but then it would not let play the game I had paid good money for unless I updated the map pack. Previous editions always made required maps free to downloads, but tonight not only was it unclear which map packs were needed to play the game but all the map packs required payments?!?!? Yeah, I am NOT going to do that. It's time to move onto a new game that won't charge me fees for updates. Why would I pay $10 to keep playing a game that has been out for over a year??? Bad idea. Email me if you change the way you are doing business. Wondering if I can get anything from my Halo 4 didll VERY disappointed...I am NEVER going to pay the extortion. I would sooner pay $60 to play a new game than $10 to pay something you just added to. Also I am going to be far less likely to buy any further Halo titles you produce because I will think you are just going to add content that I will be required to pay in order to keep using my game.
Yesterday's weekly Halo Bulletin had the following announcement:

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Also, after reviewing the last month of feedback and data from the Team Slayer playlist, we’ve decided to remove the Majestic DLC requirement. One of the primary goals of this experiment was to determine the feasibility of required DLC in Matchmaking, and while we knew the population of the playlist would drop, we found that the resulting numbers did not allow for the optimal Matchmaking experience for this playlist. As of this coming Monday, no DLC will be required to play in the playlist.
Needless to say, this is great news! We truly appreciate that the 343i team listened to the community's feedback in this regard.

In the aftermath, I would ask for one more favor: when you create the "splash screen" that describes the Matchmaking Updates next Monday, please ensure that you prominently highlight this change. Most casual players don't read the Halo Bulletin, and unless you specifically tell them about the updates they won't know that they can access the Team Slayer playlist once again.

Thanks for your help!

Well, that does solve one problem (which I am very grateful for). But it reintroduces the problem for DLC owners not having any places to play their content. I hope that 343i is working on a solution to that. I got my piece back (so thank you) . . . but I want the DLC owners to have theirs, as well.
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Well, that does solve one problem (which I am very grateful for). But it reintroduces the problem for DLC owners not having any places to play their content. I hope that 343i is working on a solution to that. I got my piece back (so thank you) . . . but I want the DLC owners to have theirs, as well.
There isn't a solution, at least for Halo 4's life. With the population as low as it is, any "DLC exclusive playlist" will be saddled with extremely low numbers (2-300), and any attempts to add a second playlist as many suggest would leave abysmal numbers (1-200). Shoving those players to the side doesn't work as we still want to play the popular playlists like TS and BTB.

Honestly, there is one option I could think of with Halo 5:

1: Raise the price of the disk a little (Maybe $10-15 more) ad include a War Games Pass with every new copy as BF3 did with their Season Pass. This make sure that, at least initially, most people would have the DLC at the start and make it easier to find the maps in playlist, but possibly introduce DLC requirements if need be.
ATLEAST put some DMRs on the Map when I'm forced to use the BR in legendary BRs...

there are carbines but no DMRs (Preferably put a DMR loadout!). But currently I seriously hate legendary BRs...

Maybe a Precision/Rifle Legendary Slayer where all precision weapons have their own loadout (NOT LIKE SLAYER PRO THOUGH, 95% of the hate of pro was the no radar)

And forge is still crap, keep it out of the first slot even after this map playlist update
How come the match finding times are still so damn long?! Even after the no-DLC update.... And yet I never get matched with people my skill, whether on my team or the other.

Idk what's taking so long to find a game but idc, just fix it. It's obviously not for skill considering what I said just now but it needs to change.

I loose momentum for playing between matches and just stop playing.

People in the 21st century don't like any type of search time to take longer than 10 seconds even, especially 10 minutes!

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How come the match finding times are still so damn long?! Even after the no-DLC update.... And yet I never get matched with people my skill, whether on my team or the other.
To some extent, I think that we have covered this in previous discussions.

Your CSR within the Team Slayer playlist is 50! That's certainly something to be proud of, but it also means that there aren't too many other people of similar rank/skill, even with the DLC requirement removed. As a result your search times will be inordinately longer than they would be for the average player, and even then it might not find too many potential "peers" for you to compete with/against.

When I have watched some of the Halo 4 pros playing on their live stream like Tyler "Ninja" Blevins, they encounter the same problem. Essentially, it's something that they have come to accept as one of the side effects that they live with for having an unusually high rank.
I honestly can't really stand this playlist anymore. I never really liked being forced to choose between 3 options of slayer in one playlist.

I can't stand Infinity Slayer anymore, armour abilities + mods + POD's make this game not fun anymore for me, now I don't ever get to play what I want. As of now, this game is a complete washout - all I ask is absolutely do not divide the community between traditional and infinity slayer.

You tried Infinity and drove out about a total of 390,000 people from the game comparing initial peak play times to current max peak play times, keep it simple and fun next time.
Haven does not appear in the first slot enough
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How come the match finding times are still so damn long?! Even after the no-DLC update.... And yet I never get matched with people my skill, whether on my team or the other.
To some extent, I think that we have covered this in previous discussions.

Your CSR within the Team Slayer playlist is 50! That's certainly something to be proud of, but it also means that there aren't too many other people of similar rank/skill, even with the DLC requirement removed. As a result your search times will be inordinately longer than they would be for the average player, and even then it might not find too many potential "peers" for you to compete with/against.

When I have watched some of the Halo 4 pros playing on their live stream like Tyler "Ninja" Blevins, they encounter the same problem. Essentially, it's something that they have come to accept as one of the side effects that they live with for having an unusually high rank.
I remember you.

You complained that the reason for this was the low population in the playlist due to DLC and other CSR crap. You suggested to remove DLC required from the playlist to fix this problem. I said it wouldn't make a difference and that times to game would still be slow no matter what if 343 kept this current way of searching.

You were wrong. You honestly think there aren't enough fifties to play with in the playlist? Ridiculous!
All in all, my slayer experience has been a poor one. Here's some of what's happening.

    * Frame-rate issues with older Xbox 360 models on new maps [Generating Textures= and the map has about a 25% framerate drop on first hdmi xbox, ~60-70% on splitscreen.]

    * Model Collision Detection(CD) for hitboxes not properly tallying damage during ghosting.

    * JIP adding people to games that are hopelessly lost ( greater than 15 kill lead and one or more other issues on this list)

    * MM/JIP adding people to games where host latency is unplayable (major rubberbanding [packetloss/regional filter?] ).

    * Host not properly switching during player quits and JIP interaction.

    * 60 minute ban penalizing players for leaving unplayable games.

    * Excessive number of players exploiting hitbox CD to prevent damage by use of modified network gear. ( You know its bad when ads on Craigslist start advertising xbox sales including these devices where the console was verified to be in working order for XBL. i.e. not banned or flagged)

    * Auto-aim improperly adjusting aim towards objects that briefly run in front of intended targets (This includes models which are ghosting).

    * Radar doesn't update during ghosting states.

    * Kill cams need to be removed or fixed.
    [/li]
So that's a brief list of mostly game breaking issues that have been around for ... more or less since release. Here's a more detailed look at the problem.

Game breaking
Frame-rate issues, not much can be done. Engine optimizations rarely if ever happen I'm not expecting it to be fixed, but its a big issue since it affects a large swath of the casual gamer market.

JIP - Quite a number of important issues with this, mostly common sense like, throwing someone back into a game someone has left intentionally due to unplayability. Matching people with hosts that have an unusually large packetloss.

Modified Network Gear - basic / advanced. (blocks all traffic vs blocks outgoing traffic)
This is the epidemic that plagues every single FPS, the basic ones can be mitigated by good players for the most part on small closed maps (adrift) since no positions are updated during the spike but the advanced ones create a one-sided battlefield.

[Solution] It would be relatively simple to implement a check that determines if a outgoing spike is occuring and then checking whether model positions are being updated differently from the natural ghosting algorithm. The other alternative is some form of passive statistical analysis on events that aren't likely. Like running through a grenade around a corner and winning a firefight. While the former solution won't fix basic versions, it will all but eliminate the use of the advanced ones since you could auto banhammer them.

There needs to be a wall of shame. A very public list of gamertags that have been struck down by the banhammer for cheating. As long as there isn't one the general perception will be that these people are simply getting away with it. CSR reps at both microsoft and community relations can tow the company line all they want people won't believe a word until this happens.

The 60 Minute Ban - or - Deterrence and unintended consequences
To keep it short, this is supposed to discourage people from needlessly quitting games. JIP aside, the only thing this does is encourage people not to play, it has no benefit and many unintended consequences. Being triggered by 5 quits, a ban like this will affect many people who left games for good reasons. The decision a person makes after getting one of these isn't at all about the game, at best its what will I spend my time on instead. At worst, its such a bad experience people reconsider playing for some time if ever. The golden rule of deterrence in games is if its annoying it will have a better effect. The more annoying the better, if it provokes anger then your in trouble. People generally move away from strong negative things consciously or unconsciously and spend their time on more positive outcomes. 15-20 minute ban for 6-8 quits per hour with a clock counting down should be sufficient. Anything more stringent and the problem becomes one of attrition.
[Edit] Also, inconsistently, the ban server seems to reban people later on midgame from disconnects that happened host side like getting stuck on a loading screen and having to reset the console. All in all ... epic fail.

Hitbox Damage and Ghosting Conditions -
There are quite a number of times where damage isn't calculated properly during ghosting conditions or where one person has packet loss and the movement algorithm keeps them moving in the same direction when last they ACKed. When they finally resync if they happened to walk through an area where a grenade happened to go off most of the time they won't take any damage or if they do its negligible compared to the full shields it should have taken.

Annoyances

Auto-aim jilting away from intended target due to moving object between target and gunner.

Kill-Cams don't properly represent what's happening from opponents perspective. Stealthed objects show up as regular moving objects through walls in promethean vision.

Infinity Slayer and Non-Slayer gametypes.
Most people are unaware of the options for nonstandard (not infinity) gametypes. For example, Team Slayer / Legendary Slayer both have Friendly Fire turned on. Something most casual gamers are blissfully unaware of when they decide to toss those grenades into the midst of allies and foes alike. Its not counted as a betrayal even if your the only one that died as long as it damages a foe.
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You complained that the reason for this was the low population in the playlist due to DLC and other CSR crap. You suggested to remove DLC required from the playlist to fix this problem. I said it wouldn't make a difference and that times to game would still be slow no matter what if 343 kept this current way of searching.

You were wrong. You honestly think there aren't enough fifties to play with in the playlist? Ridiculous!
You honestly think there are enough fifties to play within this playlist to allow for speedy matchmaking searches? I'm sorry, but you don't have any type of data to support your subjective assessment.

On the other hand, I have seen the matchmaking search times become noticeably faster since the DLC requirement was removed Monday. If it's still a rather slow process for you and I have seen the same thing happen to other players with a CSR 50 during their Twitch live streams, logic would seem to dictate that your high rank is the primary reason.
I played Halo 4 every day for hours when the DLC was required.
After it changed back to no DLC i haven't played Halo 4.

I'm not sure if i can take the stress of so many forge maps again.

Please come up with some kind of a solution for players who wish to play on real maps.
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You complained that the reason for this was the low population in the playlist due to DLC and other CSR crap. You suggested to remove DLC required from the playlist to fix this problem. I said it wouldn't make a difference and that times to game would still be slow no matter what if 343 kept this current way of searching.

You were wrong. You honestly think there aren't enough fifties to play with in the playlist? Ridiculous!
You honestly think there are enough fifties to play within this playlist to allow for speedy matchmaking searches? I'm sorry, but you don't have any type of data to support your subjective assessment.

On the other hand, I have seen the matchmaking search times become noticeably faster since the DLC requirement was removed Monday. If it's still a rather slow process for you and I have seen the same thing happen to other players with a CSR 50 during their Twitch live streams, logic would seem to dictate that your high rank is the primary reason.

and your solution is? i'd love to de-rank if it didn't take so long for me to find games to do so.

i'd also love to start another account but I don't want to have to unlock all my loadouts and Armor mods again...

perhaps if I had a way to reset my CSR for certain playlist of my own accord and play as a "closet colonel" for short match times for a limited time

do you personally get short search times?
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I played Halo 4 every day for hours when the DLC was required.
After it changed back to no DLC i haven't played Halo 4.

I'm not sure if i can take the stress of so many forge maps again.

Please come up with some kind of a solution for players who wish to play on real maps.
Love it.
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On the other hand, I have seen the matchmaking search times become noticeably faster since the DLC requirement was removed...
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Do you personally get short search times?
Yes, I do.
So... Has the Team Slayer gametype been removed completely, even though the playlist is still called Team Slayer? That was my favorite gametype. We had our choice of loadouts without the BS of random or personal ordnance. It's a shame really, as that was pretty much the only thing I could count on to play in matchmaking. Legendary Slayer never gets voted through (bad kids love their randomness), BTB is still a horribly broken BTB Heavies playlist, SWAT isn't very balanced in this game, and the lack of descoping and the addition of flinch ruins Team Snipers. Every other playlist doesn't really appeal to me.

The only thing keeping me on Halo 4 is the Forge and custom games community, and even THAT is dying. I think that alone speaks volumes. If the Forge community is even giving up on the game, well... It's not a good sign.

Please bring back Team Slayer and stop perpetuating the problems with Infinity Slayer.
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On the other hand, I have seen the matchmaking search times become noticeably faster since the DLC requirement was removed...
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Do you personally get short search times?
Yes, I do.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.

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