[Locked] The Halo: CE playlist will be 2v2? What a waste.

Big T Mac10 wrote:

The real reason I want to play this game online is for Halo: CE multiplayer. True multiplayer, not 2v2 hack jobs. I want the full experience. I understand there may be issues with it online right now and that was the need to pull the dedicated playlist at launch until it gets sorted out. I get that. I can wait. To say that it will arrive but as 2v2 and essentially be useless? No thanks. I find that to be more patronizing than anything.

Essentially this change will ruin the potential of the multiplayer to make it useless. It will arrive as doubles, tons of people will play it once or twice until they realize it maxes out at 2v2 and then never touch it again. Once that happens, you'll say "well we can sit here and try to optimize this game, but nobody plays this playlist so we won't bother," when in fact the only reason people won't play the playlist is because you gimped it to begin with by making it 2v2. And if it is still popular you'll just say "well clearly people like it as 2v2 so we can't change it," even if it is popular despite the fact that it's 2v2 and not because of it.

I'm sure there are some people that prefer 2 on 2 and for them I say have a team doubles playlist with all the games.

Not Kevin Brand wrote:

But 2v2 is what made Halo CE so fun.

z CobraKai z wrote:

Why can't 343 just give us both 2v2 & 4v4 as H1 playlists?

I love playing both.

Not Kevin Brand wrote:

But 2v2 is what made Halo CE so fun.

Not Kevin Brand wrote:

Teapot Yo wrote:

shadow walkerOZ wrote:

Not Kevin Brand wrote:

But 2v2 is what made Halo CE so fun.

You do know that you could play Halo: CE with up to 16 players right?
The only reason people seem to remember it as 2 v 2 is because people don't like playing split screen, so it usually ended up 4 TV's, 4 consoles and 4 players. It was limited by the hardware and the lack of xbox live at the time, and that's just not the case anymore so they should keep up with the times.

*DISCLAIMER* I wouldn't want to see either or, but would rather see both 2v2 and 4v4 an option.

There's some truth to this but that isn't the sole reason, but also you have to realize what the developers intended. The developers made a game that was geared towards playing well at a 2v2 level because they figured that the highest majority would be played at a 2v2 or 1v1 level. The xbox supported 4 players at the time so it just made sense. Another huge plus for 2v2 is that the level of gameplay for that involves more nuances than it would at 4v4.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy 4's as well. However the spawn system for 2's creates an incredibly deep meta that really plays differently from any other Halo in the series. I cannot even begin to explain the depth of Halo CE compared to others who dissected it. Basically, all spawns are proximity based meaning that if your teammate is standing in a location, you will always spawn at the closest available spawn point. Often, that results in spawn killing due to there being basically no "weight" on grenades effecting spawns, and players have to be relatively close to you to block your teammates spawn. That said, in competitive 2's players would know where to stand or how to position themselves to prevent getting spawn trapped. When I mean position themselves, I mean they purposely stand over 17.5 meters away from a spawn point, or they stand directly on a single spawn point to block it, thus being far enough from any of the set-spawn points. What this does is give you a "RANDOM" spawn, meaning that 100% of the time if you stand in that location, you will ALWAYS give your teammate a randomized spawn on the map. It's an extremely important factor in playing at a high level considering players will purposely abuse the spawn system in order to rack up kills. The only way to prevent this is to learn the game, play selfless, and play smart. Halo CE already gave you huge incentive not to camp by having weapons on static timers come up on various intervals. However, this system takes it a step further. Your teammate is at the mercy of not only the other team, but the decisions you make. Where you decide to stand can either screw you over, or create a great opening play for your team.

It might not seem like a great system, but go play Wizard 4v4 CTF, a game that would play beautifully in any other game and tell me how much you enjoy that. That incorporates the same spawn system of spawning near your teammate. In a 4v4 setting though, it would be impossible to random your teammate as he will just spawn next to another one of your teammates instead of the game giving him your random spawn.

To each their own though, there are plenty who would read my post and determine wow, that system doesn't seem fair. (of course it's not fair playing someone who does know it) but that's the sad part of the generation of shooters today. Nobody wants to go beyond the surface of the game to learn all the nuances and become really good at it. They simply want to push, set up, and teamshoot.

We received an incredibly great, deep, and skillful game that was actually intended to be competitive. I hope we can see it pushed in a similar light, and if you don't believe the game was supposed to be this deep meaningful game, google Hardy Lebel who designed basically the entire multiplayer.

In a nutshell, Walshy can showcase some of this.
Halo CE Spawn Manipulation in 2v2

Teapot Yo wrote:

Not Kevin Brand wrote:

Teapot Yo wrote:

shadow walkerOZ wrote:

Not Kevin Brand wrote:

But 2v2 is what made Halo CE so fun.

You do know that you could play Halo: CE with up to 16 players right?
The only reason people seem to remember it as 2 v 2 is because people don't like playing split screen, so it usually ended up 4 TV's, 4 consoles and 4 players. It was limited by the hardware and the lack of xbox live at the time, and that's just not the case anymore so they should keep up with the times.

*DISCLAIMER* I wouldn't want to see either or, but would rather see both 2v2 and 4v4 an option.

There's some truth to this but that isn't the sole reason, but also you have to realize what the developers intended. The developers made a game that was geared towards playing well at a 2v2 level because they figured that the highest majority would be played at a 2v2 or 1v1 level. The xbox supported 4 players at the time so it just made sense. Another huge plus for 2v2 is that the level of gameplay for that involves more nuances than it would at 4v4.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy 4's as well. However the spawn system for 2's creates an incredibly deep meta that really plays differently from any other Halo in the series. I cannot even begin to explain the depth of Halo CE compared to others who dissected it. Basically, all spawns are proximity based meaning that if your teammate is standing in a location, you will always spawn at the closest available spawn point. Often, that results in spawn killing due to there being basically no "weight" on grenades effecting spawns, and players have to be relatively close to you to block your teammates spawn. That said, in competitive 2's players would know where to stand or how to position themselves to prevent getting spawn trapped. When I mean position themselves, I mean they purposely stand over 17.5 meters away from a spawn point, or they stand directly on a single spawn point to block it, thus being far enough from any of the set-spawn points. What this does is give you a "RANDOM" spawn, meaning that 100% of the time if you stand in that location, you will ALWAYS give your teammate a randomized spawn on the map. It's an extremely important factor in playing at a high level considering players will purposely abuse the spawn system in order to rack up kills. The only way to prevent this is to learn the game, play selfless, and play smart. Halo CE already gave you huge incentive not to camp by having weapons on static timers come up on various intervals. However, this system takes it a step further. Your teammate is at the mercy of not only the other team, but the decisions you make. Where you decide to stand can either screw you over, or create a great opening play for your team.

It might not seem like a great system, but go play Wizard 4v4 CTF, a game that would play beautifully in any other game and tell me how much you enjoy that. That incorporates the same spawn system of spawning near your teammate. In a 4v4 setting though, it would be impossible to random your teammate as he will just spawn next to another one of your teammates instead of the game giving him your random spawn.

To each their own though, there are plenty who would read my post and determine wow, that system doesn't seem fair. (of course it's not fair playing someone who does know it) but that's the sad part of the generation of shooters today. Nobody wants to go beyond the surface of the game to learn all the nuances and become really good at it. They simply want to push, set up, and teamshoot.

We received an incredibly great, deep, and skillful game that was actually intended to be competitive. I hope we can see it pushed in a similar light, and if you don't believe the game was supposed to be this deep meaningful game, google Hardy Lebel who designed basically the entire multiplayer.

In a nutshell, Walshy can showcase some of this.
Halo CE Spawn Manipulation in 2v2

That is an example, and while I'm glad to see pro's coming back and making content, that's barely even what I consider just the tip of the iceberg. That's a forced spawn, and works by blocking a specific spawn point which is on the ground level. The only spawn point left in proximity would be the one up there by blue pistol. You know the sniper on Hang Em? If you stand underneath it against the giant pillar that holds it, you'll random your teammate every time.

Anyone who wants a better understanding of the CE Spawn System I can post a few things. It looks like the MLG boards are down, and while 99% of the great threads are gone, we still have a couple useful ones. I may post later. Here is an example of the spawn zones. Think of them like giant bubbles. There are only two spawn points in walshy's video inside the bubble where he is blocking. http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w156/ceeTheory/hb.jpg

heres another outdated picture that could use a bit of updating. A BIG DEAL OF THE SPAWN SYSTEM INFO GOES TO CHAOSTHEORY and INSIDIOUS

http://i13.tinypic.com/5y2i8fl.jpg

here is the reddit thread that goes over this stuff. http://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/1j4dko/

However, if anyone wants to fully learn the depth of the CE spawn system, the greatest site ever was just created. Everyone should share, feature, learn and love this site thanks to Relyx/Mintograde as well as whoever helped him. It gives you real changing percentage factors on spawn weight in real time and position.

halospawns.com

Again, this stuff is really only applicable in 2v2s where you only have on teammate that can spawn you in a location.

edit: I apparently suck at including links