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Doubles - Feedback Thread

OP Unyshek

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In the spirit of Valentine's Day, Team Doubles has received its very own refresh, which includes an updated mode and refreshed maps!
Doubles


Please use this feedback thread to provide your thoughts and opinions on the changes made in the Valentine's Day refresh!

Thank you and Happy Valentine's Day!

Mod note: This is the general feedback thread for Doubles as well.
Holy cow!!!! I literally cannot wait to get in and play these new settings! I got more and more excited the more I read all the changes. My co-workers probably think I'm weirder now due to my loud clap and 'woop' of excitement.

Anyways, these changes seem amazing. Like ya'll actually put some effort into this and listened to the community, and made changes that we didn't even think of.
Great job guys. I appreciate the effort to reduce camping. Just one thing to add. As long as there is Radar people will always camp and be more successful than they would be if there was no Radar. Thank you 343
So why after promising over a year ago that there would be no Req variant weapons in arena do they all of a sudden go to town and pour them into team doubles, and "are excited because it adds variety." Updating the maps to match HCS would have been perfect, but nope 343 always has to screw something up. Quite honestly i love the binary rifle that is an instakill continuous beam rather than a precision sniper rifle. As well as a dmr that shows enemies full state of health. And oh yea the suppressor thats n more powerful than the original. All of these are beautiful on top of the twitch shooter type gunfighter pisto Il. All of these truly do deepen the play and improve it tremendously, thank you for this amazing refresh. Please just stick to your word for once, if thats even possible.
Very glad to see doubles getting a refresh as it is one of my favorite playlists. I've only played a few maps, but so far it feels pretty good. The decreased respawn time is a huge improvement leaving me with less time all alone, and overall a much more team oriented experience. I'm excited to see how the modified weapons change the game, especially the COG DMR. Thanks Uny!

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Love the changes, However the spawns are still really bad. For example I kill a guy and my team mate gets killed, The enemy team spawned together and my team mate spawned across the map. Happens the most on Eden, Empire, Truth, and Regret. Any chance of you guy's looking into this in the future or will it remain "Luck of the draw" Like it has thus far?
I was hoping you would use some of the maps from the Community Doubles playlist last year.

Or at least the 'Breakout' style maps (Trident,Trench, etc).
Well you've effectively killed this playlist for me after it was my favorite. You basically turned it into a long range shooting fest, and removed any close quarter combat. Yay people can just sit across a map and pick me off without having to engage at all! That's the most fun halo experience ever! /s. Thanks for nothing.
I genuinely hate the new system of doubles, especially as an Aussie who can't find balanced games anymore. I played for more than 5 hours today to give it a fair crack around the block, and I found many infuriating issues.

Firstly, the pros:
- A massive reduction in power weapons - Great because having 4-5 power weapons, three of which are 10 second respawns after despawn, between four players in a game gets very tiring very quickly.

- More availability to BRs amd DMR precision weapons - This doesn't need an explanation.

- Replacing second tier power weapons such as shotgun with an SMG, which suddenly becomes much more counter-able.

Now, the (HUGE) cons:
- The Spawn Locations - More often than not the other player's teammate will spawn in line of sight to myself or my teammate when we are collapsing for that last kill and are weak. This is highly infuriating as it ruins the flow of what halo is meant to be (chip away at the opposing team until you get a kill, collapse as a team to secure the second kill, take control, rinse and repeat). Instead it turns into, against high level players especially, get a kill, initiate the collapse, see the person you just killed spawn in front of you, get killed, your teammate gets killed. GGWP. This, in my mind, MASSIVELY reduces the competitiveness of the playlist. Some may argue that it raises competitiveness, but I would say that it just cheapens the experience and is just another skill-gap leveller.

- Sporadic Spawns - Sometimes you will spawn on the other side of the map as far away as possible, just after dying to someone who spawned right next to their partner. In what world is this fair? If you're gonna make a new spawn system, at least make it consistent.

- The Spawn Times - Having a five second spawn is frankly ridiculous, especially due to the aforementioned problems of spawning locations. There was nothing wrong with the eight second timer. If you died first, and then your teammate dies, you need to hunker down and wait for them to spawn and then push together as a team, using strategy, instead of running off on your own and initiating the "snowball" effect everyone complains about. If you die, then respawn before your teammate dies and make it to them in time to save them, then that's a great play by both of you and increases the competitive nature of the playlist. As it is now, the five second timer promotes a lack of consequence to dying, and simply makes it who can attrition the other side down first, usually in a very small part of the map. Again with the spawn locations, it becomes a pander to those who don't know how to work selectively with their teammate.

- Camo/OS on every map now - You don't need to put an OS or Camo on every map just because you take out some power weapons. It's not needed. At all.

- Changes to power weapon plates - The binary rifle on plaza is a perfect example of this. Yes it only has 4 shots, but instakill body shots are still instakill body shots, especially with that delicious 280 ping I have. Please leave standard power weapons in place.

- Useless filler weapons - Gunfighter magnum instead of SMG? Tactical magnum instead of carbine? COG DMR instead of plasma rifle (I agree with this one as the plasma rifle is OP). Sentinel beam is now a thing? Song of Peace on EVERY MAP?? Why do we need them? We don't is the answer to that question. Having them is just a gimmicky way of drawing attention to weapons that no one outside of War Zone cares or knows about.

-Lack of Objective Play - Where is oddball, KOTH, and Flag? Staples of halo since H2. Straight slayer 100% gets stale.

The Verdict:
This iteration of doubles almost makes me want to stop playing the game entirely. It is such a bad change of pace and ends up breaking the entire flow that Halo 5 has established for itself, and the flow of team doubles that has been established since H2 and H3. Initiating the final collapse only to watch as the person you just killed spawns in front of you whilst you're in a battle with the other person is heartbreaking and infuriating. You should never feel like you're fighting a 4v4 battle in doubles. It's team doubles for a reason. Whilst the changes to power weapons is very welcome, the changes to the game mode itself are not.

TL;DR
Please, I am BEGGING you, revert the playlist settings to how they were, whilst leaving the changes to power weapons.
So I now have a more experienced opinion after I put some time into the Doubles refresh. Love it!

The changes made to weapons and power ups on map, I thought was just about perfect. There is less ammo in snipers, some maps you took the rockets off, which is excellent. The changes to Molten and Mercy are sublime. Those 2 maps being the ones me and my Doubles partner would avoid if possible. I actually like them now. So a BIG thank you there. The one thing I wasn't sure about was Binary Rifle on Plaza. Got that map twice, and I gotta say I am absolutely ok with it. And the Rig!!! it plays soooo much better with the matching to HCS lay out, and less power weapons.

The biggest thing I noticed on a positive note was this: The respawn timer change was HUGE! When I read about it in the article I was excited due to the potential of it. But experiencing it was amazing. It massively increases the pace of the game. So now the pace feels more like an aggressive 4's match. Doubles matches used to commonly go to time instead of kills. It felt soooo good to have it sped up. Great job there.

It's not perfect though. Idk if it was done on purpose or its a unforeseen consequence to the respawn timer change, but spawns seem really jacked up. I experienced some really strange spawns on map. Like just weird spots that didn't make sense. And as I saw someone else said earlier on here, some really unfair spawns. whether for us or them. For example on Rig.(which I experienced this) If we are having a battle near Blue spawn or where needler is (technically called garage? idk) and it turns into a 1 on 1 battle with the other 2 guys on respawn. It makes no real sense that the opposing team gets their team mate to spawn at barrels. and the other guys gets the Engine 1 spawn or something like that.

And lastly it would be really amazing to have at least a lil bit of objective in there. Well! Those are really the only negative things I found in this refresh. All in all great job 343!
I really, really dislike the update. It feels like 343 just wants to kill the game. First they remove the two most popular social playlists and then they destroy the most popular ranked playlist.

1) Spawn times - This has made the game really unpredictable. I don't know if this is the only gameplay aspect that was tweaked, but somehow it seems like the spawns are more broken than ever. Maybe in the higher levels it will make things better, but in the gold/platinum world is just makes the games a mess. I hate it.

2) Weapons - While there were some maps with way too many big weapons (Eden), the direction that was taken to address this seems all wrong. I don't like the gunfighter magnum, the tactical magnum, the suppressor, the COG sight, the sentinel beam, the binary rifle, the gravity hammer, or the silenced AR.

3) Powerups - There does not need to be a powerup on every map, especially not TWO of them.

4) Maps - I was so very happy when Mercy suddenly stopped showing up in doubles as was everyone I talked to about it.

Doubles wasn't broken so why not do a gradual change? Remove some splinter grenades, lower some ammo counts, etc.

No, instead we completely change the game by messing with one of the main game dynamics and completely changing many of the weapon and powerups. Ugh.

It feels like 343 thinks that if we just try thing enough (like the map Mercy) at some point we will start liking it. But no, we don't, so just stop.

Please fix doubles.
Oh, and if you want something to fix in doubles, how about changing the game matching so these champions that team up with purposely bronze 1 accounts don't get to play gold and platinum all day. If you have a champion on your team you should be playing other champions or onyx.
cheesygr3m wrote:
I really, really dislike the update. It feels like 343 just wants to kill the game. First they remove the two most popular social playlists and then they destroy the most popular ranked playlist.

1) Spawn times - This has made the game really unpredictable. I don't know if this is the only gameplay aspect that was tweaked, but somehow it seems like the spawns are more broken than ever. Maybe in the higher levels it will make things better, but in the gold/platinum world is just makes the games a mess. I hate it.

2) Weapons - While there were some maps with way too many big weapons (Eden), the direction that was taken to address this seems all wrong. I don't like the gunfighter magnum, the tactical magnum, the suppressor, the COG sight, the sentinel beam, the binary rifle, the gravity hammer, or the silenced AR.

3) Powerups - There does not need to be a powerup on every map, especially not TWO of them.

4) Maps - I was so very happy when Mercy suddenly stopped showing up in doubles as was everyone I talked to about it.

Doubles wasn't broken so why not do a gradual change? Remove some splinter grenades, lower some ammo counts, etc.

No, instead we completely change the game by messing with one of the main game dynamics and completely changing many of the weapon and powerups. Ugh.

It feels like 343 thinks that if we just try thing enough (like the map Mercy) at some point we will start liking it. But no, we don't, so just stop.

Please fix doubles.
Bro, what map has two power-ups?
cheesygr3m wrote:
Oh, and if you want something to fix in doubles, how about changing the game matching so these champions that team up with purposely bronze 1 accounts don't get to play gold and platinum all day. If you have a champion on your team you should be playing other champions or onyx.
That was addressed in the Jan 30th Matchmaking Feedback thread. I think its safe to say changes are coming soon to prevent this.
This feedback is coming from someone who has been playing Doubles for a decade, has played thousands of Doubles games in H5, and has been a top Champion in nearly every single Doubles rendition in H5. I love Doubles so I really just want the best for the playlist and for the playlist to thrive.

That said, the BIGGEST issue across ALL maps is the drastically reduced spawn time. No longer are teams reliably able to take one member of the opposing team down and then DOUBLE TEAM the remaining player. Pinching is now essentially non-existent. Due to Halo 5's incredibly fast gameplay and one's ability to traverse the map so quickly, unless the pinch is completely instantaneous, there is a 0% chance of not being flanked by the player that was just killed. The player who is killed first on the opposing team spawns too fast and is often immediately able to put fire into his opponent's back (see Truth, Empire, Rig, Col, Mercy -- all great examples of this flaw). This is rewarding deaths (or, perhaps it can be argued, not punishing deaths as severely as needed), not rewarding teamwork. This is not how Doubles should be.

In reference to weapons modifications across all maps, there is NO need for the DMR to change to the COG DMR. The justification in the HaloWaypoint post is that the COG function "increases its value on a map" since "a player is able to see the shield strength and health of the Spartan they are targeting." Perhaps this is an example of the catering to non-competitive players that competitive players always like to speak about, or perhaps this is just some random change but in my mind, in no circumstance should the DMR be increased in power (and honestly, it just makes the DMR more difficult/annoying to use when scoped in). The COG DMR is a Warzone or BTB weapon. The shield/health identifier feature shouldn't be put into play in close quarter, competitive combat. No matter the reason, there was no call (that I ever heard, at least) for the DMR > COG DMR change. It just doesn't make any sense other than to just change things up for the heck of it. I'll throw this in as well: The silenced pistols are weird but I don't mind them that much. I just don't really understand why they'd even be put in the playlist, though. If its just for testing, that's fine, but to me it's needless but not necessarily a critiquing point.

Map Updates: I've only played the maps I list below but I've heard insane complaints about Coli, Plaza, and also Rig.

Empire: WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING? Seriously? This was one of the most ideal Doubles maps pre-change (excluding the inclusion of SMGs) and now it's arguably the worst. One of my first Doubles games last night had ALL FOUR -- YES ALL FOUR -- players in the game carrying around a Sentinel Beam. PLEASE don't make me live the days of H2A Warlord again. WHY does that weapon spawn so frequently (and with so much ammo)? The time required to drain the shields off of someone, it seems, is equivalent to a close-ranged SMG spray. Except, with the beam, this bad boy can go cross map. Is this Doubles, or is this Team Sentinel Beam? Removing plasma pistol instantly overpowers overshield even with the addition of camo. My biggest gripe, though, obviously is the aforementioned Sentinel Beam abundance. This map shouldn't have been changed so drastically.

Tyrant: Camo is completely and utterly useless if the opponent has a plasma caster. On some maps (for example, Regret) the caster works fine since the space is mostly open. On other maps, like Tyrant, the caster is the weapon that enables camping, excessive slow-playing, and non-confrontational gameplay. Every single fighting point on Tyrant is a hallway. What is the best weapon to have in a hallway? That's right. A caster. I played two games on Tyrant yesterday and both were HORRIBLE. The addition of the caster increases the likelihood of just standing in one spot, looking in one spot, and doing absolutely nothing (until, MAYBE, every two minutes "fight" for camo). Tyrant turned from an awful map into a map that will be dodged in even higher frequency,

Truth: I like the removal of storm rifle and the addition of silenced AR (I prefer less powerful autos). Well done. I also like how BRs are now in bases and not just P2 to reduce snowbally-ness. There was no reason to remove the sword for the hammer. I don't get that and no justification was present on Waypoint. The main issue with this map is, again as previously mentioned, the inability that teams have to pinch the one remaining living player without getting shot in the back off their opponent's spawn. Tactical magnum in place of the carbine and BR also don't make any sense at all.

Regret: Funnily enough, I mentioned earlier (without remembering the changes on this map) that Regret was ideal for a plasma caster since it wasn't full of hallways (like Tyrant). Is it surprising, then, that the weapon that fits this map well was removed and in its place is a weapon that is ridiculous and overly OP? Of course not. Thankfully, however, the redeeming quality of the railgun on this map is that it has such low ammo. The tactical/silenced magnum addition on this map still don't make sense.

Overall, this new Doubles is crappy. It's needlessly fast and chaotic due to reduce spawn times (oh, by the way, I forgot to mention... the spawns themselves are bad. If a player doesn't spawn behind you and scurry over to shoot you in the back, they spawn right next to their teammate even if their teammate is currently in a gun fight. This literally happened yesterday when it was 24-24). The weapon changes don't make sense from a competitive POV and it seems the majority of the changes were made as if to say "we changed stuff (that no one asked for). Are you happy now?" *continues to ignore core aspects of the game where there is a competitive consensus to alter)

I know I'm not alone in the disapproval of the new changes as evidenced by Tweets from both yesterday and today. I have seen just one person prefer the new settings.
Ok I finally got a chance to play some doubles last night. I didn't play all the maps but what I did play I enjoyed. A change up in the weapons and power up's is nice. Changes the strategy of each map a bit. Good job on that guys.

The only thing I can say is that the spawns are really fast. I haven't played enough to really decide if I like it or not but my initial impression is that it's too fast. Like other people have said, there isn't enough time to push in and kill the other player after you kill one. I think 8 seconds was fine.
I'm glad fuel rod was removed from truth.
i hardly noticed honestly. but it feels like it was better... idk
You made it too fast. Way too fast. Slow down the respawns. Also, put something back in to counteract the fast gameplay. Unless of course you're going for call of duty type play, then congratulations you did a great job. I will be quitting soon unless you switch it back. So will my partner.

Also, this is halo. You have removed most of the weapons that male this game great. I'm fine with removing tickets from Col. but you removed sniper and smg from way too many maps. You effectively killed the balance of the game. Like I mentioned before. You sped up the game way too much. I sincerely hope you put it back and only make small changes at a time. You made us wait way too long to have this Playlist, and then you screw it up only months after we finally get it. Please fix it. In response to the guy above who is happy it feels like an aggressive 4s match. Go play Slayer or Arena, we dont play Doubles for fast gameplay, we play for strategic, methodical, and communicating gameplay. By eliminating the balance between short and long range gameplay and between spawn times, you've simply ruined this Playlist.
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