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Weapons Feedback

OP MM Systems Team

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Battle Rifle: Way, way, WAY too fast of a RoF. I noticed its new power on day one of the TU, but thought it was just me. Well, it's not. It's definitely the weapon.

It's more OP than the DMR was. Sure, the DMR kept its efficiency at longer ranges, but the BR just flat out dominates anything below long range.

Suppressor: I feel like this little guy got left out on the automatic weapon buffing. Each auto weapon got a buff of 3 shots, but since the Suppressor's shots-to-kill is much higher than the AR and SR, it really closed the gap on the Suppressor's niche. It needs more power.

Plasma Pistol: It was already impossible to get kills with it before the TU, now it's.....more impossible? With all the primaries (except the DMR) getting buffs, the Plasma Pistol should have had a slight buff as well to health damage. I'm really close to getting all the weapon commendations, but I'm dreading that Plasma Pistol...
I think I've been in denial for the longest time about the BR's OP-ness. I really noticed it on Pitfall, Vertigo, and in Rumble Pit this week. I really want to use the carbine or even a DMR, but I can't because the BR's ROF is a little too fast. Just earlier tonight I played three games of RP. The first game I used my carbine and got slaughtered, then I used a BR in the next two and pulled second place both times.

It should be given the Halo 2 BR's ROF if we are to have it as 4sk and hitscan. Then we'll have the precision loadout weapons in (theoretical) harmony.
Random ideas for side arms and grenades:

Weapon: Magnum
Idea: Increase bullet spread.
Why: Despite have a significant physical bloom, the actual rounds tend to stay in a close bunch. Accuracy only seems to decrease with a combination of rapid fire and long range.

Weapon: Plasma Pistol
Idea: Increase damage, decrease ammo consumption, reduce EMP effect.
Why: Despite being a side arm, it still fires white hot plasma. It should be able to burn through both shields and armor with minor effort. That being said, it shouldn't use up fuel like an old SUV; 1% per shot gives it the longevity a non-reloadable weapon deserves.
The EMP...need I say it? Make an EMP on a vehicle last only about 2 seconds. With the wheelman perk, make it as if the driver slammed the brakes on for a second. No soldier should be able to spawn with a bane of all vehicles.

Weapon: Boltshot
Idea: Increase primary damage, reduce overcharge damage.
Why: The Boltshots' primary fire is practically useless outside of SWAT. It would be nice if one could get a kill with at least one magazine. On that note, it should not be an alien Shorty. Make the damage so it is like standing on a grenade: only lethal if take prior damage. This would make it a truly tactical weapon.

Weapon: Frag grenade
Idea: Delay fuse.
Why: Everyone spawns with grenades, hail storms of grenades are fairly common. Giving it a second to rest before detonation will give a person the chance to react. As of now, two decently placed grenades tend to result in an instant kill. The rate at which explosions occur simply over rules a person's reaction time.

Weapon: Plasma grenade
Idea: Reduce damage or Limit one per spawn.
Why: This thing is a just blue ball of -yoink-. Two of these things turn a warthog into a bon-fire in no time. On top of that, people love to combine this with Promethean Vision and stick people around corners. Even if they miss a little, the explosion is still probably gonna take out shields.

Weapon: Pulse Grenade
Idea: Give two per loadout.
Why: Its a big glowing ball of destruction. Its dangerous, but only if your dumb enough to walk into it. It honestly reminds me of that slow explosion from an Invader Zim episode. You can literally walk out of the kill zone. Adding two will help bring out its zone cancelling properties.

Words for thought. Think it over, play a few games, think a little more. Try to have fun. :)
Anyone else think Slayer is just a bit too fast paced? It takes hardly any time to get a kill with any of the primary weapons. On top of that, there isn't very many drawbacks to balance out that speed.

How about slowing the Rof a touch?
*The DMR could have the Rof from Halo Reach.
*The BR could match the DMR like it does now.
*Take 2 shots off the AR and SR while keeping the Suppressor the same.
*Carbine could use one shot more, or tiny Rof reduction, only if previous are implemented.

This would slow the game down slightly and give people the tactical feel that Halo 4 seems to be lacking.
Feedback! Yeah!
The june update was largely perfect as far as the primary weapons go. I'll kind of gloss over those.

Primary Weapons

Battle rifle: It's an excellent gun now. It's overused, but not unbalanced. Relatively short range balances its high power.

DMR: It retains its niche as the most versatile primary on offer. It can do anything, but it gets beat by the other primaries inside their respective domains. Good for people who like to do everything!
Perfectly balanced.

Covenant Carbine: Its superior accuracy gives it an edge on the battle rifle at long range, and its high DPS gives it an edge on the DMR at close range. The most difficult to use, but almost as versatile as the DMR. My favorite primary! Maybe consider changing that reload time, but it's not a big issue.

Light Rifle: My go-to gun on big maps! Very tough to use outside its niche (dat hipfire), but punishingly powerful inside it. Perfectly balanced.

Assault Rifle: Give yourself a big, sloppy kiss and a high five for this one. My beautious, blat-a-gat-ing assault rifle is actually competitive now! The pre-patch iteration was usable, but now I feel I'm actually at an advantage when I use it in close quarters. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Storm Rifle: Still not quite as useful as it could be. The assault rifle is clearly superior (hitscan, woo!), so maybe consider reducing shots needed to break shields and increasing shots needed to kill health, keeping overall shots to kill the same. It'd be great for teamshotting when your buddy has a precision gun, and it'd be more faithful to previous plasma rifles.

Suppressor: I don't use this gun. Can't give any feedback.

Secondaries

Magnum: Awesome. Don't change it.

Boltshot: Maybe consider making the primary fire a 10 shot kill, instead of an 11 shot. Not being able to kill someone in one magazine rustles my jimmies.

Plasma pistol: As a dedicated vehicle driver, I know how annoying the overcharge is. I don't, though, think it's fundamentally unbalanced. I have one critical issue though. Consider the following:
I'm in a mantis/scorpion/wraith. Someone EMPs me.
They then repeatedly EMP me while walking toward me. I sit unable to move for 10 seconds or more. They board and kill me! Wheelman doesn't resolve this issue, because the plasma pistol can fire overcharged shots too quickly. Consider increasing the overheat duration or something similar to resolve this.
Also make the primary fire a little better? It is kind of terrible.

Sniper Rifles

Beam Rifle: This gun is still just a little bit too delicious. Maybe consider increasing heat per shot to lower the sustained fire rate? I feel like the gun doesn't punish a quick second shot enough.

Other

Concussion Rifle: This gun is, like, not good. I find it actually hard to get kills with it. A perfect fix would be to significantly increase projectile speed.

Spartan Laser: Sometimes, when using this gun against infantry, I get hitmarkers. This is not okay. More infantry damage! (Please.)

SAW: This gun rocks my socks. Maybe too much. Give it less starting ammo please? I don't like seeing someone (even myself, as has happened on occasion) using this gun to fuel a Frenzy.

Rocket Launcher: Please consider reducing maximum ammunition to 6. 8 is just... Too much boom.

Incineration Cannon: Similar issue! Maximum ammo should be 4 or 5.

Plasma Grenade: Again, as a vehicle pilot, I used to have serious issues with these, but Survivor has calmed me down. Maybe make it a require three grenades to kill a warthog though? One person should not be able to take down a warthog so easily.

Pulse Grenade: Consider either increasing its effectiveness or giving people 2 to start. An interesting idea might be to add an EMP effect to it, to give people an anti-vehicle option that isn't a plasma grenade.
You might even transfer the plasma pistol's EMP ability to the pulse grenade, to make vehicle take downs require more teamwork!

The vehicle firepower is at a perfect spot right now, the only issue being the warthog's cardboard construction. I cannot emphasize enough my satisfaction with the Survivor ability. When I'm in my glorious mantis (may it live forever! [But seriously though, Halo for Xbox One... Keep the mantis]) and my stompy robot rampage is ended by some chumps swarming me... It isn't ended!
Primary weapons
Suppressor. Before the title update it was usable but With the TU this weapon is useless compared with the assault and storm rifles, it's clearly visible.

Secondary weapons
Plasma pistol. Buff the primary fire please, it's practically imposible to get kills with this weapon. Also increase the overcharge time in the secondary fire to balance it.

Other
SAW. Reduce the initial ammo, only that. It's easy to get too kills with this beast.
Spartan laser. UnNerf the Splaser!
The spartan laser in Halo 4 has been ridiculously nerfed. In Halo 3 the spartan laser was capable of destroying scorpion tanks in a single shot. Described as being the most powerful laser 2nd only to the scarab Cannon.
“It's not overpowered, it's an elegant weapon from a more civilized age.”
—Luke Smith of Bungie, as describing the spartan laser as a reference to the lightsaber of starwars in the words of obi wan kenobi.
please reduce the charged bolt shot range, there is no point of the hammer and the sword, because the bolt-shot stops it EVERY TIME!
The battle rifle is way to overpowered its ridiculous that it only takes 3 to 4 shots with it to kill someone with it there needs to be an update that reduces the power of it so that when it shoots the three round burst its the same power as one DMR shot. And the suppresser is way underpowered as well as all the covenant weapons. In all reality the unsc weapons need to be toned down so that when someone with a suppressor gets into a firefight with someone with a battle rifle is not a Battle rifle victory every time
Battle Rifle:I think it should require all 12 bullets from 4 burst should hit in order to get a kill. The rate of fire should get a slight decrease, I find this weapon is too effective in close range against the storm rifle and the suppressor.

DMR: I think this weapon is really balanced with the other weapons.

Carbine: The Carbine's reload time be reduced because everytime I use the carbine I always feel I have to use dexterity so the reload time is bearable.

Light rifle:I think this gun is balanced with the other weapons. The gun could use a reduction in reload time.

Assault rifle : I think this gun is balanced well with the storm rifle, but the suppressor feels extremely underpower and useless.

Storm rifle: I think this gun is well balanced with the assault rifle, but the suppressor feels useless. This gun works really well with bust firing

Suppressor: This gun feels really underpowered, the boltshot dominates the suppressor in this range. The assault rifle and storm rifle out class the suppressor. The suppressor should take fewer shots to kill opponents in its extremely short range. The reload time of this gun is also very slow.

Saw: This gun seems a bit overpowered, its doesn't seems to have a counter other than use another power weapon.

Overall the weapon balance is well done.
ok, please tell me if anyone else agrees that the rockets and frags is weak as -Yoink-.. i swear man.. i could have gotten an exterm in so many PIT matches if it was not for the weak rockets.. im about to show video proof.
Food for thought (incoming long essay, but I think it's worth it; conclusions aka TL;DR are in the last paragraph):

When we ask for hypothetical "minimum" killtimes, the actual killtimes of the weapons tend to be significantly higher.

To all of the testers at 343: You're not first time FPS players. You're looking to make Halo accessible - how about trying the game out with deliberately increased shots to kill, to emulate players unused to Halo missing shots.

To everybody who's not a tester: Go into a custom game and set the damage resistance to 150%. Play with a 6sk BR. Imagine that as the 5sk BR to a player new to Halo.

Does the game slow down drastically because players are able to sprint away before being killed? YES.

This is the experience of every novice FPS player when they try to get into Halo. It's inaccessible because individuals can't kill fast enough by themselves. With poor teammates like 99% of new players will get because of CSR/ranking systems, it becomes even more difficult and frustrating for players to finish kills.

This is why Halo is having a tough time attracting people. The game we play, "we" being those of us who are concerned enough with the game to post about it and the developer, is very different from what players see on their first time in. Kills in Halo will take a ridiculous amount of time for first time players.

This makes Halo more inaccessible than "alien weapons" or such. Alien weapons can be learned after a few games. The long killtimes won't go for days, weeks or even months, and people will put down the game by then.

What's the solution? Certainly not to make aiming easy so new players can get the same killtimes as experienced players. The only evident solution is to bring down the average killtimes.

The BR buff were in line with this mentality. A weapon with a 1.73s MINIMUM killtime is like a nerf gun; in the hands of somebody new to competitive console FPSes - it's a super soaker.

Reducing killtimes to near nothing will not work with Halo's shield mechanics. It will unfairly buff weapons that do well against health (automatics) while nerfing weapons that do well against shields (headshot capable weapons). So what's the solution? A weapon that has a low minimum killtime (compared to the primary weapons we've gotten in the various iterations of Halo) that is difficult to achieve (this will fulfill the dual purposes of balancing the anti-shield and anti-health niches of the sandbox and creating a shooting skillgap that will make the competitive players happy), with the average killtime around the "middle" for previous Halo weapons (we know "high" killtimes won't work for the reasons mentioned above).

Assuming we consider "low" in the first quarter of data, we're talking something between the CE Pistol and the Halo 4 BR for minimum killtime. If we consider "middle" to be the 50th percentile, we are looking at an average killtime similar to that of the Halo 2 BR.

So (this doubles as a TL;DR) what the above reasoning suggests is: Minimum killtime between .6 (~CE) and 1.3 (~H4) seconds and average killtime around 1.4 (~H2) seconds. This retains accessibility for newer players while retaining the sandbox balance for experienced players.
Primary Weapons
Battle Rifle
Sounds like nails on a chalk board, if anything is worth fixing its this.

Every other Weapon
Well I think all weapons need to go one tick slower on the kill speed. This would require to much work in balancing in H4 but I have to get it out there to keep my hopes up. The current fast Rof just makes the battles less engaging, like a bad date.
Since you guys are thinking about another weapon tuning...

#1: Lower the BR's RoF just a tad bit more. An essentially 4sk DMR with lowered RRR (basically a modified weapon of the very thing everyone complained about) just doesn't make sense. It should not shoot as fast as the DMR. Right now, the overall Loadout weapon sandbox is balanced, and while the rest of the weapons can compete now, the BR is now the dominating weapon. Not as much as the old DMR, of course, but still. Lower its RoF a tad bit more, and I feel like it'd be perfect, so perfect.

#2: Beam Rifle's no scope aim assist/bullet magnetism/whatever makes it so easy to snapshot. Lower it. I know you guys considered it in the first weapon tuning, but now see it all the way through.

#3: The Suppressor needs to do good. It's so terrible. I want to like it, but I feel like its the Plasma Pistol of the Loadout weapons. No me gusta on this. I say make it where it takes lesser bullets to reach full Bloom. Like, if it's currently 3-5, then make it 8-10. This gives it some better range, so it can get those first very essential shots to allow it to compete against the other ARs, but not too much to make it where it can keep up with the other ARs at longer ranges. A slighter damage buff might either also be nice or the alternative.

#4: The Machine Gun Turret. It's bigger than the SAW, and slows your movement, which I'm assuming means it's supposed to pack more punch, but it's losing to the SAW. Bump up the Machine Gun Turret's damage so it can defeat the SAW (this might mean a slight weapon damage decrease for the SAW, so find it where the SAW is better than the ARs, worse than the MGT, but also make it where the MGT doesn't completely destroy like it's a joke; In other words, find the perfect mix between the three).

#5: Boltshot's primary function needs a damage buff. Right now, it's completely pointless. A whole clip to get rid of the shields? Make it where it takes 7 shots to get rid of the shields. The amount of body shots are fine since getting a heashot becomes necessary. But getting rid of the shields damage needs to be bumped up. I say 7 because it shoots very fast, can miss 2 shots at max so it has some forgiveness thanks to it not be very accurate, and needing to get the headshot becomes more necessary.

Other than that, I feel like every other weapon is completely fine.
Quote:
Random ideas for side arms and grenades:

Weapon: Magnum
Idea: Increase bullet spread.
Why: Despite have a significant physical bloom, the actual rounds tend to stay in a close bunch. Accuracy only seems to decrease with a combination of rapid fire and long range.

Weapon: Plasma Pistol
Idea: Increase damage, decrease ammo consumption, reduce EMP effect.
Why: Despite being a side arm, it still fires white hot plasma. It should be able to burn through both shields and armor with minor effort. That being said, it shouldn't use up fuel like an old SUV; 1% per shot gives it the longevity a non-reloadable weapon deserves.
The EMP...need I say it? Make an EMP on a vehicle last only about 2 seconds. With the wheelman perk, make it as if the driver slammed the brakes on for a second. No soldier should be able to spawn with a bane of all vehicles.

Weapon: Boltshot
Idea: Increase primary damage, reduce overcharge damage.
Why: The Boltshots' primary fire is practically useless outside of SWAT. It would be nice if one could get a kill with at least one magazine. On that note, it should not be an alien Shorty. Make the damage so it is like standing on a grenade: only lethal if take prior damage. This would make it a truly tactical weapon.

Weapon: Frag grenade
Idea: Delay fuse.
Why: Everyone spawns with grenades, hail storms of grenades are fairly common. Giving it a second to rest before detonation will give a person the chance to react. As of now, two decently placed grenades tend to result in an instant kill. The rate at which explosions occur simply over rules a person's reaction time.

Weapon: Plasma grenade
Idea: Reduce damage or Limit one per spawn.
Why: This thing is a just blue ball of -yoink-. Two of these things turn a warthog into a bon-fire in no time. On top of that, people love to combine this with Promethean Vision and stick people around corners. Even if they miss a little, the explosion is still probably gonna take out shields.

Weapon: Pulse Grenade
Idea: Give two per loadout.
Why: Its a big glowing ball of destruction. Its dangerous, but only if your dumb enough to walk into it. It honestly reminds me of that slow explosion from an Invader Zim episode. You can literally walk out of the kill zone. Adding two will help bring out its zone cancelling properties.

Words for thought. Think it over, play a few games, think a little more. Try to have fun. :)
yes, yes and more yes.

I agree with almost everything you said, magnum and stickies being the only things I don't. I also would like to add in:

weapon: suppressor
idea: increase accuracy.
why: since the TU, unless you're at point blank range, the thing is useless and is really only good for holding the trigger while you run at the enemy and finishing them off with a melee.

weapon: beam rifle
idea: reduce auto aim
why: in the hands of any player this weapon becomes a long range shotgun. you can get 10 noscopes easy with one beam rifle. on smaller maps it's a serious issue, you round a corner and shot in the head, spawn and shot in the head. even if they miss the head that first shot and it hits you the second shot can be fired of instantly and finish you.
People over look this so much but I seriously miss the 100% movement speed.

It was smooth and made encounters less sloppy and it was just fun walking around on the maps. NO ONE complained about this but it was changed anyway. I think it's so people can run from the ridiculously overpowered BR...

The Scattershot seems A LOT weaker than before due to the new movement speed as well

go back to 100% speed and a reduced ROF BR

and buff the Spartan Laser and Gravity Hammer (I'd prefer a Boltshot over a hammer LOL)
I played reach and Halo 3 the other days and I have to say that the Assault Riffle is way to overpowered. It takes up to no skill to use it.
[u]WTF... is wrong with everyone???

I'm tired. I'm tired of all YOU babies that keep crying about H4. Everyone screamed and carried on for a 4sk BR "...like in Halo 3.." They (343) listened and made it so. They actually OBLIGED! - along with numerous other changes that were being demanded. So, now that "we" (H4 community & players) got what we've asked for; "we" don't take a moment to thank, appreciate or even enjoy what "we" initially wanted/threw a tantrum for. NOPE!! "We" just find something else to demand and complain about. So now it has to be "like Halo 2," huh? WTF guys??! WTF?! 'If you keep messing with the mechanics, then it will no longer be the same machine.' I suggest that if you want to experience the previous Halo titles (which I will always cherish and love), QUIT LOOKING FOR THEM ON A DIFFERENT GAME!!! Wait... You know what? I think I will hop on the bandwagon here... HEY 343... WHERE THE HECK IS SEPHIROTH?? I demand SEPHIROTH as a playable Spartan IV in the next T/U. Thanks! <<(^_^)>>. Lolz...

Sincerely,
JJ
Its a feedback thread and the Assault Riffle is way to overpowered in my (and a lot of good peoples) opinion.

Whats your problem?

I can also give good feedback. I love the 4 shot BR and that the DMR is not overpowered anymore.
Just wanted to drop by and put down my requests for the newer weapon update approaching.

-Buff Plasma's.
They used to have a certain splash damage to them that does not exist anymore. Now they are more like land mines only working when your opponent lands on them for the kill.
They could most definitely feel stronger and be more worth picking up as laid out on the maps.

-Introduce Weapon De-Scope for Precision Rifles
Let's face it. Classic Halo has always had De-Scope for the precision rifles and should make it's return.
It adds a certain Meta to Halo that has just been removed. Forces players to be better shooters without relying on zoomed in shots the entire match.
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