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343i, it's time to wake up.

OP iShylock

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DreDre345 wrote:
Does anyone else smell first world problems? I just can't make out where it's coming from...

It's a game, OP. A game. Get over it, or find a new hobby or something. Easy.
What? Where do you think you are right now? This is the "Halo 5" section of the official Halo website where we talk about Halo. Complaining or otherwise, that's all "first world". And I give to charity, so now I get to indulge in some whining about video games. M'kay? M'kay.
Ramir3z77 wrote:
Quote:
But you're not really wrong on your other points. Many of them are subjective, like Halo 5's level design; I actually quite enjoy it. Of course it's linear. What the hell are you expecting, to be plopped down in a San Andreas style map?
If possible you should get Halo Custom Edition and The Silent Cartographer Evolved (a re-imagining of the level of the same name).

It's linear in the sense you go from a starting point to a finish point, but you're given multiple ways to approach the level, even more than the original level, you aren't confined to just going a single direction.

If I want to go to structure B instead of structure A, I can.

If I want to run straight to the bottom of Structure B and enter it, I can. If I want to take the long way across the map that leads to a vantage point overlooking structure B for a safer entrance, I can do that as well.
It does have stuff like that. Especially Sangheilios. Multiple routes and passages. Maybe it's a matter of scale that I'm missing here. Was Custom Edition just bigger? I never played it. I probably should.
PolyG3D wrote:
Mr Zed wrote:
I honestly think it's not 343 who needs to wake up, its the community that needs to wake up.
No, you wake up.

The community is gone.
He's right. The community is bent on halo reach style gameplay and modes when the only game they played was halo reach. I'm not saying everyone is like this but a majority are. Older generations remember the fun on old ce and h3.
I feel 343 did a good job and everything is free. I havnt spent a penny on this game and I'm already getting legendary gear. Lvl 108 atm. I loved the old halos but you gotta remember that Spartans evolve. Prometheans are part of the halo story. They are forerunner machines and that's what the actual halo rings are.
H5 did have a lack luster campaign but I understood where it was going and why it ended the way it did. H2 had a cliffhanger as well. Every halo has its strengths and weaknesses.
H6 needs to learn from its mistakes. The 60 fps is great and all but why can't they keep splitscreen and good graphics. It will take more time but time that is worth it. Gamemodes need to be in halo mainly for the social players. People that are competitive can go do their own thing.
I played halo to have fun and mess around with my friends but I end up raging more than having fun
Infection was a breakthrough cuz now I can actually not get mad and frustrated but actually have fun surviving cuz I think they did a good job with it.
Now we need classics like fat kid and cops and robbers and a whole assortment of modes.
I didnt really play juggernaut or anything in that sorts but still. The good side of the h5 community can make amazing things with halo 5s forge and it's newly added customization in custom games.
Hopefully 343 learns from h5 and is able to keep new and old from other halos into the H6.
iShylock wrote:
I'm a 35 year old, married & college educated professional. Thoughtout the years, I have been, and remained, a dedicated/diehard fan of this franchise...

and i must say.

343i, your company has DESTROYED a franchise I loved so dearly for nearly TWO DECADES!

Between the MCC and Halo 5 Guardians, you have unequivocally & undeniably shown Microsoft made a catastrophic decision by ENTRUSTING you with the Halo franchise.

There are so many GLARING failures that I don't know where to begin. Let's look at H5G:

1). The campaign. Easily THE WORST IN FRANCHISE HISTORY. it's not even a contest. The AI and fireteam concepts are shameful. The story, bad. The engine, belonged on the 360, not the Xbox One. The level design, incomplete and linear. The character development, non existent. The marketing campaign, misleading to the extent of appearing intentional. The list could go on and on
2). The User Interface, not friendly, clunky, slow and complicated. What exactly was going through the minds of the developers who created this unorganized and hard to use mess? How could you allow something so bad to ship?
3). The lack of anything social in MP! Was your intent to cause a large percentage of your fanbase to develop an early onset of cardiac problems?
4). The servers. 343i, Inspite of your recent work product, You have a fan base that spans THE KNOWN WORLD (otherwise known as) PLANET EARTH. how could you fail to have the proper infrastructure laid out for fans who enjoy multiplayer? especially after the MCC debacle?
5). The lack of common sense to perform badly needed maintence on your servers after each new ccontent update (the lag in multiplayer is now out of control).

This list is by no means all inclusive.

Im sorry for ranting. But something's gotta give

Halo is too important to allow 343i's bush league amateurs to continue making a mockery out of what we have come to love so dearly.
How did they ruin halo? Can't you just play them on the 360? Did the great memories of past halo games on Xbox you obtained disappear when h5 comes out? Also it doesn't take a college degree to freakin Judge how fun something is because you can't . It's jubjective.
Sure. I apologize if i coming across as judgmental and if I'm implying H5G's multiplayer isn't enjoyable/fun, because it is.

But if you look at 343i's body of work from a Macro/Birdseye perspective, they make poor business decisions (not having the proper infrastructure with respect to their servers, operational errors like creating a bad UI, creative errors with respect to the story)

I want 343i to be successful, I want to champion their work on all things Halo, but their continuous mistakes are making that extremely difficult.
Ramir3z77 wrote:
It does have stuff like that. Especially Sangheilios. Multiple routes and passages. Maybe it's a matter of scale that I'm missing here. Was Custom Edition just bigger? I never played it. I probably should.
Sanghelios basically has tunnels within a singular area.
What I'm talking about is multiple routes that divide up the entire mission.

Halo Custom Edition is a version of Halo PC that was created to allow people to make custom multiplayer maps. Over time people figured out how to use the tools to create custom campaign levels, custom weapons and vehicles for the multiplayer maps, custom modes, so on, and some pretty crazy stuff has been made as a result.

This is the level I mentioned earlier. Surprisingly that is the Halo 1 engine it's based on. Though you probably won't be able to appreciate the level design without playing through it yourself.
K27R wrote:
I understand your concerns but you need to back up more than just these flaws to prove that Halo is now a failure. This is actually the only game launched in 2015 that, although at first glance seem inferior, has actually managed to continually entertain most players.

Hell I played Fallout. Great game, but I prefer skyrim and my journey ended some while ago. I played the Division, and that was the most boring piece of crap I've ever played. Tell me if you'll play Quantum Break more than 2 times this year?

Halo 5 has some flaws that disappointed me dearly. I used to dislike Halo 4 but now I love it. Halo 6 will be the main factor whether or not Halo is doomed or instead it's absolute peak.

Main problem with MCC is that it's not cross-platform with Xbox 360. If it was we could join matches all the time.
Please define "continually entertain most players"

from what i understand the population of the game has been plummeting since launch. Just yesterday, a Friday, another forum member used the Xbox.com most played list and other games population counters to estimate the halo 5 population at 20k players.... On a Friday.... Just after the update for released.... 7 months from launch.... Downright pathetic
K27R wrote:
I understand your concerns but you need to back up more than just these flaws to prove that Halo is now a failure. This is actually the only game launched in 2015 that, although at first glance seem inferior, has actually managed to continually entertain most players.

Hell I played Fallout. Great game, but I prefer skyrim and my journey ended some while ago. I played the Division, and that was the most boring piece of crap I've ever played. Tell me if you'll play Quantum Break more than 2 times this year?

Halo 5 has some flaws that disappointed me dearly. I used to dislike Halo 4 but now I love it. Halo 6 will be the main factor whether or not Halo is doomed or instead it's absolute peak.

Main problem with MCC is that it's not cross-platform with Xbox 360. If it was we could join matches all the time.
Because this post has proven statistics to back up that Halo 5 is the only game launched in 2015 that "continually entertains most players", right?
Ramir3z77 wrote:
Ramir3z77 wrote:
It does have stuff like that. Especially Sangheilios. Multiple routes and passages. Maybe it's a matter of scale that I'm missing here. Was Custom Edition just bigger? I never played it. I probably should.
Sanghelios basically has tunnels within a singular area.
What I'm talking about is multiple routes that divide up the entire mission.

Halo Custom Edition is a version of Halo PC that was created to allow people to make custom multiplayer maps. Over time people figured out how to use the tools to create custom campaign levels, custom weapons and vehicles for the multiplayer maps, custom modes, so on, and some pretty crazy stuff has been made as a result.

This is the level I mentioned earlier. Surprisingly that is the Halo 1 engine it's based on. Though you probably won't be able to appreciate the level design without playing through it yourself.
If modding teams like CMT can make awesome campaign levels on an old engine like Halo CE's engine (or frequently referred to as the Blam! engine) like Silent Cartographer Evolved and the SPV3 missions, but professional developers with years of experience in game design can't and the best they can do are the Sangheilios missions, then something is wrong.
But you're not really wrong on your other points. Many of them are subjective, like Halo 5's level design; I actually quite enjoy it. of course it's linear. What the hell are you expecting, to be plopped down in a San Andreas style map? :). That would be nice, but something like the Halo CE feel of being in an open world with less bottlenecks and forced traffic patterns would be great.

But anyway, yeah they've definitely hit a few bumps along the way, but they've also hit a few home runs in my opinion. I'm a big lore fan and they've catered to us quite well. I also think they've done a good job with finding a nice middle ground in regards to classic style arena (equal starts, power weapons on maps, no perks, no flinch, descope, etc.) while also utilizing modern movement mechanics. That said, it would be nice if Microsoft would get their servers in order. I am in 100% agreement with you here. Like you, I'm a huge extended lore fan and 343i has done a fantastic job by adding new characters and interesting back stories into Halo's extended universe.

Also, I'm 30 years old, also married & college educated ... only I'm extremely unprofessional. lol :) I'm right there with you my fellow spartan!
I really love the gameplay mechanics. I even dare to say, the gameplay is, in my opinion, the best of the halo games so far and feels new and fresh.

The multiplayer, it's good, gameplay makes it fun and the new gamemodes are fun to play. Arena feels really competative, but the lobby's are too boring. I can see some random squares and triangles of different colours.

The campaign... I'm still trying to forget it, it had 0 relation to what promoted to us, 0 character development, and I did not like Locke at all, who was pushed right in my face. I didn't even do a 2nd play through of the campaign...

All in all a good game, but please.... The campaign.... why you do this to me?!?! I hope the next part will be really really good and explain why a lot of stuff has happened. Suddenly Cortana is evil? I mean I have read the books, but suddenly all these aspirations. Stuff like this breaks it for me.

TL;DR: Multiplayer is good, campaign... I crie everytiem
I don't see any thing wrong with halo 5 and the multiplayer is easier to navigate than halo's 3
Being constructively critical is one thing, but being unnecessarily harsh is something else entirely.

To respond to your five points:

  1. The quality of the campaign is completely preference-based. You say that it is the worst campaign ever, others say that it is the best. It's actually funny, because this reminds me a lot of the Halo 2 campaign and the different opinions people had of it. My point is there is no right or wrong answer; you either like it or you do not, and either option is fine.
  2. The User Interface might be a little clunky, but that hardly qualifies as a factor to the "destruction of the franchise". Instead of saying how terrible the UI is in this game, perhaps you could explain why it is subpar in your opinion.
  3. This is a problem that stretches back a few years; the community complained that Halo 4 was too casual, and so 343 Industries decided to make Halo 5: Guardians more competitive as a result. Now people are complaining that Halo 5: Guardians is too competitive, which is making 343 Industries add in more social playlists to create a balance. Sometimes it is necessary to put yourself in the shoes of the developer to try and understand the difficulties that they face.
  4. The servers of Halo 5: Guardians are dedicated servers. Any issue involving these servers is a Microsoft issue and not a 343 Industries issue.
  5. Once again, 343 Industries has little to no control over maintenance of these servers. Please learn the facts first before making such points.
There is no point in getting as angry as you are right now; you have a wife to keep you company for many years to come, and that's awesome. You want to rant? That's what your wife is for, to comfort you. I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but this forum is meant for constructive criticism and civilized debate, not rants.
Being constructively critical is one thing, but being unnecessarily harsh is something else entirely. While harsh, I believe the tone & verbiage to be justified.
To respond to your five points.
  1. The quality of the campaign is completely preference-based. You say that it is the worst campaign ever, others say that it is the best. It's actually funny, because this reminds me a lot of the Halo 2 campaign and the different opinions people had of it. My point is there is no right or wrong answer; you either like it or you do not, and either option is fine. The majority of reviews written by independent journalists contradicts this statement. some examples: http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2015/11/16/halo-5-guardians-review-not-worthy-of-the-mantle/ https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2015/10/halo-5-guardians-single-player-review.html
  2. The User Interface might be a little clunky, but that hardly qualifies as a factor to the "destruction of the franchise". Instead of saying how terrible the UI is in this game, perhaps you could explain why it is subpar in your opinion. I never stated the UI is the contributing factor to the destruction of the franchise, its only an example of what I found to be frustrating in H5G.
  3. This is a problem that stretches back a few years; the community complained that Halo 4 was too casual, and so 343 Industries decided to make Halo 5: Guardians more competitive as a result. Now people are complaining that Halo 5: Guardians is too competitive, which is making 343 Industries add in more social playlists to create a balance. Sometimes it is necessary to put yourself in the shoes of the developer to try and understand the difficulties that they face. It's incumbent upon 343i to consider its entire fanbase as a whole, rather than cater to a small percentage of it.
  4. The servers of Halo 5: Guardians are dedicated servers. Any issue involving these servers is a Microsoft issue and not a 343 Industries issue. 343i is a fully owned subsidiary of the Microsoft Corporation. Bonnie Ross has 2 job titles, one of managing director of 343i, and the other. Vice President within the Microsoft Corporation.
  5. Once again, 343 Industries has little to no control over maintenance of these servers. Please learn the facts first before making such points. Please see above. If you care to share anything that would shed light as to why i am incorrect, I would be happy to read it.
  6. There is no point in getting as angry as you are right now; you have a wife to keep you company for many years to come, and that's awesome. You want to rant?That's what your wife is for, to comfort you. I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but this forum is meant for constructive criticism and civilized debate, not rants. I don't believe this paragraph merits a response.


Thank you for your feedback. I believe we all have the same end goal in mind, to make Halo the best experience it can possibly be. Please accept my apologies if my tone offended you.
  • Not every Halo fan is an independent journalist. Some movies get bad reviews, and they end up being awesome.
  • That's fair I suppose. You are entitled to dislike whatever it is you find irritating; however it does not hurt to specifically describe what's wrong with what it is that irritates you.
  • Believe me, it is not a small percentage. Many people that play Halo are competitive players, and their percentage is most probably larger than you think. Do not mistake my stance, however; I do not agree with the current ratio of ranked and social playlists at all. In fact, I have asked for more social playlists on multiple occasions. I was simply explaining a different perspective because this kind of stuff is not as easy as it seems; it's very hard to please an entire population.
  • It is a subsidiary, which means it is controlled by a parent company. Being controlled =/= having control.
  • Bonnie Ross is a Corporate Vice President at Microsoft Studios, and even then the only power she has is to report the issue so that it may be resolved.
  • It is true that we have that shared goal, but that goal can only be achieved through calm discussion. I know you were frustrated (your rant kind of indicated that), and that's why I made my previous post; I know from experience that anger can cloud one's judgement, which is why I suggested talking to someone you care for that can calm you down (your wife). Your tone did not offend me at all. The point I wanted to make was if you want your voice to be heard, you need to do things in a way that will attract the attention of 343 Industries, not turn it away.
iShylock wrote:
I'm a 35 year old, married & college educated professional. Thoughtout the years, I have been, and remained, a dedicated/diehard fan of this franchise...

and i must say.

343i, your company has DESTROYED a franchise I loved so dearly for nearly TWO DECADES!

Between the MCC and Halo 5 Guardians, you have unequivocally & undeniably shown Microsoft made a catastrophic decision by ENTRUSTING you with the Halo franchise.

There are so many GLARING failures that I don't know where to begin. Let's look at H5G:

1). The campaign. Easily THE WORST IN FRANCHISE HISTORY. it's not even a contest. The AI and fireteam concepts are shameful. The story, bad. The engine, belonged on the 360, not the Xbox One. The level design, incomplete and linear. The character development, non existent. The marketing campaign, misleading to the extent of appearing intentional. The list could go on and on
2). The User Interface, not friendly, clunky, slow and complicated. What exactly was going through the minds of the developers who created this unorganized and hard to use mess? How could you allow something so bad to ship?
3). The lack of anything social in MP! Was your intent to cause a large percentage of your fanbase to develop an early onset of cardiac problems?
4). The servers. 343i, Inspite of your recent work product, You have a fan base that spans THE KNOWN WORLD (otherwise known as) PLANET EARTH. how could you fail to have the proper infrastructure laid out for fans who enjoy multiplayer? especially after the MCC debacle?
5). The lack of common sense to perform badly needed maintence on your servers after each new content update (the lag in multiplayer is now out of control).

This list is by no means all inclusive.

Im sorry for ranting. But something's gotta give

Halo is too important to allow 343i's bush league amateurs to continue making a mockery out of what we have come to love so dearly.
Your point 4 is what I'll respond to. I put 100s of hours into Halo CE and Halo 2 MP over the years and to finally play CE over Xbox Live for the first time ever and Halo 2 for the first time since 2009 and to have it crushed because of the MCC. Yes I still play the MCC for those two titles but the bugs and the decision for cross game playlists who was the genius on that decision? I honestly believe there's good people at 343 who want to make Halo great again but there being turned down by the higher ups who wish to gain a new audience. Yet these higher ups don't understand math you gain 1 new customer yet you lose 2 or 3 with how you've changed Halo into another FPS like COD. Halo was great because it was unique in the FPS crowd now it's just like all the other but instead of shooting humans your shooting machines and aliens.
omarlotrc wrote:
  • Not every Halo fan is an independent journalist. Some movies get bad reviews, and they end up being awesome.
  • That's fair I suppose. You are entitled to dislike whatever it is you find irritating; however it does not hurt to specifically describe what's wrong with what it is that irritates you.
  • Believe me, it is not a small percentage. Many people that play Halo are competitive players, and their percentage is most probably larger than you think. Do not mistake my stance, however; I do not agree with the current ratio of ranked and social playlists at all. In fact, I have asked for more social playlists on multiple occasions. I was simply explaining a different perspective because this kind of stuff is not as easy as it seems; it's very hard to please an entire population.
  • It is a subsidiary, which means it is controlled by a parent company. Being controlled =/= having control.
  • Bonnie Ross is a Corporate Vice President at Microsoft Studios, and even then the only power she has is to report the issue so that it may be resolved.
  • It is true that we have that shared goal, but that goal can only be achieved through calm discussion. I know you were frustrated (your rant kind of indicated that), and that's why I made my previous post; I know from experience that anger can cloud one's judgement, which is why I suggested talking to someone you care for that can calm you down (your wife). Your tone did not offend me at all. The point I wanted to make was if you want your voice to be heard, you need to do things in a way that will attract the attention of 343 Industries, not turn it away.
Your last statement makes perfect sense. Thank you for the feedback Spartan! I will keep this in mind on a move forward basis.
PolyG3D wrote:
Mr Zed wrote:
I honestly think it's not 343 who needs to wake up, its the community that needs to wake up.
No, you wake up.

The community is gone.
Is it? Why do I see hundreds of threads complaining about literally everything there is to complain about even when it isn't worth to complain about?
Oh it is here, alive and well. Except the community is so focused on complaining about crap that shouldn't be complained about instead of moving on for god's sake and realising this isn't H2 or H3.
People are so fixed on hating 343 and their games after their quite colossal failures which is to some degree very understandable but there is a limit to everything even to this crying about H5.
People need to start removing their nostalgia-goggles and move the hell on, this is ridiculous beyond measure.
Mr Zed wrote:
PolyG3D wrote:
Mr Zed wrote:
I honestly think it's not 343 who needs to wake up, its the community that needs to wake up.
No, you wake up.

The community is gone.
Is it? Why do I see hundreds of threads complaining about literally everything there is to complain about even when it isn't worth to complain about?
Oh it is here, alive and well. Except the community is so focused on complaining about crap that shouldn't be complained about instead of moving on for god's sake and realising this isn't H2 or H3.
People are so fixed on hating 343 and their games after their quite colossal failures which is to some degree very understandable but there is a limit to everything even to this crying about H5.
People need to start removing their nostalgia-goggles and move the hell on, this is ridiculous beyond measure.
Halo is a big deal to the community; you cant expect them to leave quickly and quietly when they feel their favorite game has been destroyed.
Mr Zed wrote:
PolyG3D wrote:
Mr Zed wrote:
I honestly think it's not 343 who needs to wake up, its the community that needs to wake up.
No, you wake up.

The community is gone.
Is it? Why do I see hundreds of threads complaining about literally everything there is to complain about even when it isn't worth to complain about?
Oh it is here, alive and well. Except the community is so focused on complaining about crap that shouldn't be complained about instead of moving on for god's sake and realising this isn't H2 or H3.
People are so fixed on hating 343 and their games after their quite colossal failures which is to some degree very understandable but there is a limit to everything even to this crying about H5.
People need to start removing their nostalgia-goggles and move the hell on, this is ridiculous beyond measure.
Halo is a big deal to the community; you cant expect them to leave quickly and quietly when they feel their favorite game has been destroyed.
That's the thing, it is not which is precisely my point. People are so blinded by hatred that they hate things just for the sake of hating, the hate for H4 and the MCC I fully understand but the hate that H5 still get's is purely unjustified.
K27R wrote:
I understand your concerns but you need to back up more than just these flaws to prove that Halo is now a failure. This is actually the only game launched in 2015 that, although at first glance seem inferior, has actually managed to continually entertain most players.

Hell I played Fallout. Great game, but I prefer skyrim and my journey ended some while ago. I played the Division, and that was the most boring piece of crap I've ever played. Tell me if you'll play Quantum Break more than 2 times this year?

Halo 5 has some flaws that disappointed me dearly. I used to dislike Halo 4 but now I love it. Halo 6 will be the main factor whether or not Halo is doomed or instead it's absolute peak.

Main problem with MCC is that it's not cross-platform with Xbox 360. If it was we could join matches all the time.
Please define "continually entertain most players"

from what i understand the population of the game has been plummeting since launch. Just yesterday, a Friday, another forum member used the Xbox.com most played list and other games population counters to estimate the halo 5 population at 20k players.... On a Friday.... Just after the update for released.... 7 months from launch.... Downright pathetic
Thanks for the shout out, it was actually lower than 17k at that period. The hate isn't irrational when there is a continuance of mistakes, this is why were clamoring for better results.
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