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[Locked] 343i's Incompetent Game Design is Killing Halo

OP eman182

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>Play Halo 5 Guardians
>Suck at game and can't get any kills
>Go on forum to complain about how game sucks

You can't win with people like the OP. Same with the 194 people who liked his post filled with random ignorance, half-truths and disinformation. You all are really going out of your way to hate H5G and 343, hm?
I'm actually pretty good at the game, but sill would like to see sprint go. Clamber and thrust are the only two spartan abilities that I will stand behind. Ground pound and tackle are very risky and potentially useless during an evenly balanced match. 343 has done good with the campaign (I wouldn't mind if sprint was in the campaign), but for multiplayer... that is where they are lacking a bit. You have to really ask yourself why Halo 4's population decreased so much after the first 2 months, when Halo 3 had over a million players (more than COD 4 at the time) playing at once after a year the game already released.

The truth of the matter is Halo 5 multiplayer is changing too much all at once. If you gradually introduced these features over the course of the three games (Halo 4, 5, and 6), then there would probably be less backlash from the community. But as of now with Halo 5, there are too many changes to the core fundamental gameplay of Halo (Halo CE - Halo 3). Halo is not meant to be a fast-twitch type of shooter, which is more akin to Titanfall and COD. Halo is a steady paced shooter that rewards the chess like strategies between team players. With an ability like sprint, players can aimlessly run towards enemies, get hit, and then retreat and not really rely on their teammates. Sprint is a HUGE gameplay decision, especially for multiplayer and it should not be taken lightly.

Its a fact that spartan abilities killed the majority of the Halo multiplayer population and more specifically the competitive Halo scene. 343i is trying to appeal to the masses and draw the COD players into Halo. Halo should NEVER be like COD. The more features they have in common, the less people will ultimately continue to play Halo. That is why COD is released every single year, because the player base gets essentially bored of the game, which is exactly what happened to Halo 4. But when you look at Halo 3, you had loyal players playing till this day without a steep decline in the multiplayer population.

My advice to 343i...
(1) Don't introduce some many changes at once;
(2) Stop conforming to the general audience and the typical modern FPS;
(3) Respect your loyal fans who have made Halo 5 (and ultimately 343i) possible;

Do not forget the Purists that stuck with Halo since the beginning.
GoatKurry wrote:
>Play Halo 5 Guardians
>Suck at game and can't get any kills
>Go on forum to complain about how game sucks

You can't win with people like the OP. Same with the 194 people who liked his post filled with random ignorance, half-truths and disinformation. You all are really going out of your way to hate H5G and 343, hm?

I'm actually pretty good at the game, but sill would like to see sprint go. Clamber and thrust are the only two spartan abilities that I will stand behind. Ground pound and tackle are very risky and potentially useless during an evenly balanced match. 343 has done good with the campaign (I wouldn't mind if sprint was in the campaign), but for multiplayer... that is where they are lacking a bit. You have to really ask yourself why Halo 4's population decreased so much after the first 2 months, when Halo 3 had over a million players (more than COD 4 at the time) playing at once after a year the game already released.

The truth of the matter is Halo 5 multiplayer is changing too much all at once. If you gradually introduced these features over the course of the three games (Halo 4, 5, and 6), then there would probably be less backlash from the community. But as of now with Halo 5, there are too many changes to the core fundamental gameplay of Halo (Halo CE - Halo 3). Halo is not meant to be a fast-twitch type of shooter, which is more akin to Titanfall and COD. Halo is a steady paced shooter that rewards the chess like strategies between team players. With an ability like sprint, players can aimlessly run towards enemies, get hit, and then retreat and not really rely on their teammates. Sprint is a HUGE gameplay decision, especially for multiplayer and it should not be taken lightly.

Its a fact that spartan abilities killed the majority of the Halo multiplayer population and more specifically the competitive Halo scene. 343i is trying to appeal to the masses and draw the COD players into Halo. Halo should NEVER be like COD. The more features they have in common, the less people will ultimately continue to play Halo. That is why COD is released every single year, because the player base gets essentially bored of the game, which is exactly what happened to Halo 4. But when you look at Halo 3, you had loyal players playing till this day without a steep decline in the multiplayer population.

My advice to 343i...
(1) Don't introduce some many changes at once;
(2) Stop conforming to the general audience and the typical modern FPS;
(3) Respect your loyal fans who have made Halo 5 (and ultimately 343i) possible;

Do not forget the Purists that stuck with Halo since the beginning.
Only addressing your bottom 3 points only.

1) I'm going to be 22 in 2 months. If I had to wait 6-8 more years to get where halo 5 is now I'd be bored and done with halo before then.
2) I'll believe halo is conforming when it plays exactly like another shooter. Until then all that is is hyperbull to me.
3) Don't speak for others. I've been with halo since a year after halo CE's release. I don't feel disrespected. Neither do any of my friends who've been with halo almost as long as I have. 343 released the MCC. That literally is the definition of fan service. 343 respects the series as well as the loyal players. That is evidence enough. Just because halo 5 isn't the way some "loyalists" like doesn't mean they don't respect them.
Halo 5 multiplayer is nothing like a Halo game! Since H3 its ridiculous. We have to be defensive, teamwork and watch the magnetic bullet pass tru wall. I'm tired of the new thing in the game they are ruining the old good one. For the first in 13 years im not willing to buy it at launch.
GoatKurry wrote:
>Play Halo 5 Guardians
>Suck at game and can't get any kills
>Go on forum to complain about how game sucks

You can't win with people like the OP. Same with the 194 people who liked his post filled with random ignorance, half-truths and disinformation. You all are really going out of your way to hate H5G and 343, hm?


I'm actually pretty good at the game, but sill would like to see sprint go. Clamber and thrust are the only two spartan abilities that I will stand behind. Ground pound and tackle are very risky and potentially useless during an evenly balanced match. 343 has done good with the campaign (I wouldn't mind if sprint was in the campaign), but for multiplayer... that is where they are lacking a bit. You have to really ask yourself why Halo 4's population decreased so much after the first 2 months, when Halo 3 had over a million players (more than COD 4 at the time) playing at once after a year the game already released.

The truth of the matter is Halo 5 multiplayer is changing too much all at once. If you gradually introduced these features over the course of the three games (Halo 4, 5, and 6), then there would probably be less backlash from the community. But as of now with Halo 5, there are too many changes to the core fundamental gameplay of Halo (Halo CE - Halo 3). Halo is not meant to be a fast-twitch type of shooter, which is more akin to Titanfall and COD. Halo is a steady paced shooter that rewards the chess like strategies between team players. With an ability like sprint, players can aimlessly run towards enemies, get hit, and then retreat and not really rely on their teammates. Sprint is a HUGE gameplay decision, especially for multiplayer and it should not be taken lightly.

Its a fact that spartan abilities killed the majority of the Halo multiplayer population and more specifically the competitive Halo scene. 343i is trying to appeal to the masses and draw the COD players into Halo. Halo should NEVER be like COD. The more features they have in common, the less people will ultimately continue to play Halo. That is why COD is released every single year, because the player base gets essentially bored of the game, which is exactly what happened to Halo 4. But when you look at Halo 3, you had loyal players playing till this day without a steep decline in the multiplayer population.

My advice to 343i...
(1) Don't introduce some many changes at once;
(2) Stop conforming to the general audience and the typical modern FPS;
(3) Respect your loyal fans who have made Halo 5 (and ultimately 343i) possible;

Do not forget the Purists that stuck with Halo since the beginning.


Only addressing your bottom 3 points only.

1) I'm going to be 22 in 2 months. If I had to wait 6-8 more years to get where halo 5 is now I'd be bored and done with halo before then.
2) I'll believe halo is conforming when it plays exactly like another shooter. Until then all that is is hyperbull to me.
3) Don't speak for others. I've been with halo since a year after halo CE's release. I don't feel disrespected. Neither do any of my friends who've been with halo almost as long as I have. 343 released the MCC. That literally is the definition of fan service. 343 respects the series as well as the loyal players. That is evidence enough. Just because halo 5 isn't the way some "loyalists" like doesn't mean they don't respect them.
And me addressing your points:

(1) Good for you! And if they add all those changes in at once, the majority of the player base will leave and get bored by the second month after release, just like with Halo 4. If you look at the changes from Halo CE to Halo 2 to Halo 3... there was much change, but these changes were small that ultimately added up to give a new experience. Yes there were some dislikes, like the Halo 2 and Halo 3 pistol, the removal of the AR, but these changes were nothing compared to changing how the game actually played with sprint, spartan abilities, loadouts, TTK, etc. (ultimately leading to Halo 4's steep decline in multiplayer population, which I fear will happen again for Halo 5 if 343i continues down this path). However, I am not opposed to these drastic changes in single player, as it would make sense with the lore. But when it comes to multiplayer, 343i has to be careful which buttons to press.

(2) Isn't it on its way? LT to ADS ("Smart Scope"), sprint, quick TTKs, medal overload, power weapon callouts, fast-twitch gameplay, etc. It is slowly, but surely conforming to the modern day FPS, which is not what Halo was traditionally about. Halo 1-3 and even Reach at it's time were vastly unique from other shooters. With the recently released COD:AW with thruster packs and abilities, the gap is closing between Halo and the overtly bland gameplay style of the modern FPS.

(3) I'm not speaking for others, I'm speaking for myself based on the majority of the forums' comments. Besides, I just stated that 343i should "respect there loyal fans"... do you not agree with this?
Arkham wrote:
Soulburnin wrote:
Sprint needs to go.

Essentially if h5 didnt have sprint it would be amazing. With its not worth a purchase.


I feel the opposite. I will not buy the game if they ditch sprint.


Now that's just stupid, you're gonna leave the entire game because one thing might be removed, how does that help anything, why not tell us why Sprint should still be in there and how it could be improved on.

But people saying they won't buy the game with sprint included isn't stupid? I believe I see a gap in logic here!
Both statements are stupid, a single ability doesn't make or ruin the game :p
So a super soldier shouldn't be able to run or be able to do anything with his powered up suit? I don't understand why you all just want the same game copied and pasted over and over again. If you want that, then go play CoD.

I love what they have brought to the table for Halo 5. There are some things that need fixed but that's what a Beta is for. Some of you are crucifying 343 and Halo 5 already and the game doesn't even release until the end of the year.
So a super soldier shouldn't be able to run or be able to do anything with his powered up suit? I don't understand why you all just want the same game copied and pasted over and over again. If you want that, then go play CoD.

I love what they have brought to the table for Halo 5. There are some things that need fixed but that's what a Beta is for. Some of you are crucifying 343 and Halo 5 already and the game doesn't even release until the end of the year.
Sprint isn't a bad thing being put in, the way it works now is bad now, the player shouldn't be punished for using Sprint
So a super soldier shouldn't be able to run or be able to do anything with his powered up suit? I don't understand why you all just want the same game copied and pasted over and over again. If you want that, then go play CoD.

I love what they have brought to the table for Halo 5. There are some things that need fixed but that's what a Beta is for. Some of you are crucifying 343 and Halo 5 already and the game doesn't even release until the end of the year.
This game is becoming CoD. It blows my mind that you would be so hypocritical.

Speaking of CoD, there is a reason they produce the same games every year: Because it works. That is Call of Duty's niche. They don't fix what isn't broken for them. Halo should have done the same.
Man I'm so sick and tired of reading everybody crying about the 343i halo games mainly sprint in halo. Just so you know and anybody else that wants to blame 343i for sprint. You should probly go play Reach the first halo to feature sprint and look at what developer name pops up before the game starts I believe it'll say BUNGIE. GEEZ!! get over sprint get over ADS the Halo series is gonna evolve like it or not.
alienNnja wrote:
Man I'm so sick and tired of reading everybody crying about the 343i halo games mainly sprint in halo. Just so you know and anybody else that wants to blame 343i for sprint. You should probly go play Reach the first halo to feature sprint and look at what developer name pops up before the game starts I believe it'll say BUNGIE. GEEZ!! get over sprint get over ADS the Halo series is gonna evolve like it or not.
Sprint actually worked in that game but the Armor Abilities broke the game, mainly Armor Lock, Halo 4 did a bit better with fixing the problem of Armor Abilities, but it became unfare and unbalanced with the unknown factor of who had what.

Halo 5 actually is balanced out save for the Spartan Abilities that need a few tweeks
GoatKurry wrote:
GoatKurry wrote:
>Play Halo 5 Guardians
>Suck at game and can't get any kills
>Go on forum to complain about how game sucks

You can't win with people like the OP. Same with the 194 people who liked his post filled with random ignorance, half-truths and disinformation. You all are really going out of your way to hate H5G and 343, hm?


I'm actually pretty good at the game, but sill would like to see sprint go. Clamber and thrust are the only two spartan abilities that I will stand behind. Ground pound and tackle are very risky and potentially useless during an evenly balanced match. 343 has done good with the campaign (I wouldn't mind if sprint was in the campaign), but for multiplayer... that is where they are lacking a bit. You have to really ask yourself why Halo 4's population decreased so much after the first 2 months, when Halo 3 had over a million players (more than COD 4 at the time) playing at once after a year the game already released.

The truth of the matter is Halo 5 multiplayer is changing too much all at once. If you gradually introduced these features over the course of the three games (Halo 4, 5, and 6), then there would probably be less backlash from the community. But as of now with Halo 5, there are too many changes to the core fundamental gameplay of Halo (Halo CE - Halo 3). Halo is not meant to be a fast-twitch type of shooter, which is more akin to Titanfall and COD. Halo is a steady paced shooter that rewards the chess like strategies between team players. With an ability like sprint, players can aimlessly run towards enemies, get hit, and then retreat and not really rely on their teammates. Sprint is a HUGE gameplay decision, especially for multiplayer and it should not be taken lightly.

Its a fact that spartan abilities killed the majority of the Halo multiplayer population and more specifically the competitive Halo scene. 343i is trying to appeal to the masses and draw the COD players into Halo. Halo should NEVER be like COD. The more features they have in common, the less people will ultimately continue to play Halo. That is why COD is released every single year, because the player base gets essentially bored of the game, which is exactly what happened to Halo 4. But when you look at Halo 3, you had loyal players playing till this day without a steep decline in the multiplayer population.

My advice to 343i...
(1) Don't introduce some many changes at once;
(2) Stop conforming to the general audience and the typical modern FPS;
(3) Respect your loyal fans who have made Halo 5 (and ultimately 343i) possible;

Do not forget the Purists that stuck with Halo since the beginning.


Only addressing your bottom 3 points only.

1) I'm going to be 22 in 2 months. If I had to wait 6-8 more years to get where halo 5 is now I'd be bored and done with halo before then.
2) I'll believe halo is conforming when it plays exactly like another shooter. Until then all that is is hyperbull to me.
3) Don't speak for others. I've been with halo since a year after halo CE's release. I don't feel disrespected. Neither do any of my friends who've been with halo almost as long as I have. 343 released the MCC. That literally is the definition of fan service. 343 respects the series as well as the loyal players. That is evidence enough. Just because halo 5 isn't the way some "loyalists" like doesn't mean they don't respect them.

And me addressing your points:

(1) Good for you! And if they add all those changes in at once, the majority of the player base will leave and get bored by the second month after release, just like with Halo 4. If you look at the changes from Halo CE to Halo 2 to Halo 3... there was much change, but these changes were small that ultimately added up to give a new experience. Yes there were some dislikes, like the Halo 2 and Halo 3 pistol, the removal of the AR, but these changes were nothing compared to changing how the game actually played with sprint, spartan abilities, loadouts, TTK, etc. (ultimately leading to Halo 4's steep decline in multiplayer population, which I fear will happen again for Halo 5 if 343i continues down this path). However, I am not opposed to these drastic changes in single player, as it would make sense with the lore. But when it comes to multiplayer, 343i has to be careful which buttons to press.

(2) Isn't it on its way? LT to ADS ("Smart Scope"), sprint, quick TTKs, medal overload, power weapon callouts, fast-twitch gameplay, etc. It is slowly, but surely conforming to the modern day FPS, which is not what Halo was traditionally about. Halo 1-3 and even Reach at it's time were vastly unique from other shooters. With the recently released COD:AW with thruster packs and abilities, the gap is closing between Halo and the overtly bland gameplay style of the modern FPS.

(3) I'm not speaking for others, I'm speaking for myself based on the majority of the forums' comments. Besides, I just stated that 343i should "respect there loyal fans"... do you not agree with this?
1) Considering we've had half of these things in some forum or another we arn't really being overloaded with changes. imo.

2) Not imo. Halo has always had ADS in some forum or another. Adding it to every weapon isn't a problem. If halo never had ADS I might give you that. Weve had sprint since reach. quick TTK's? all guns are the same bar the SMG and the scoped fire from the light rifle....Halo is still unique at the core. No other game plays like halo.

3) They should. But in your context it can be easily inferred you don't think they are. Which is why I stated they do with examples.
eman182 wrote:
ROBERTO jh wrote:
The amount of absolute negativity in the initial few sentences tells me this post is heavily biased. Not without merit for sure, but I why should I care to read something that long when the post opens with insulting the subject? Why should I expect any kind of improvement on rational, constructive grounds?

Seeing as how the game was co designed alongside a team of professional halo players who know the game inside and out, I find it hard to believe they're "incompetent."

Please do not disregard my points for the catchy title--no one would bother reading a volume of text at all if they weren't enticed by something.

My first paragraph was not meant to insult 343 Industries. I looked up their Wikipedia page and sought information about them on Google, and I learned that their developmental accomplishments are few and that they were, indeed, created and appointed by Microsoft as Halo's caretakers.

I do not argue that all my points are without reproach in logic, nor do my fierce words mean I hate 343 Industries. I believe that hating a company is fruitless because a company does not feel; I only want to speak plainly about the design choices of 343i's Halo games that are in conflict with each other and in conflict with the gameplay of older Halos.
l'm not sure you realize this, but a good number of 343i's team members are former Bungie employees, so yes, they have played the original games.
Also, your points are solid, but I have to say, it's ok to be prosaic. You could ratchet your soap box down a wee little bit to address us foundering plebs and we wouldn't be any less appreciative of your message. Intelligence is not correlated with word count or with uses of the synonym button. As Mark Twain said, "I have made this letter longer than usual, only because I have not had time to make it shorter."
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not bump.

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
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eman182 wrote:
ROBERTO jh wrote:
The amount of absolute negativity in the initial few sentences tells me this post is heavily biased. Not without merit for sure, but I why should I care to read something that long when the post opens with insulting the subject? Why should I expect any kind of improvement on rational, constructive grounds?

Seeing as how the game was co designed alongside a team of professional halo players who know the game inside and out, I find it hard to believe they're "incompetent."


Please do not disregard my points for the catchy title--no one would bother reading a volume of text at all if they weren't enticed by something.

My first paragraph was not meant to insult 343 Industries. I looked up their Wikipedia page and sought information about them on Google, and I learned that their developmental accomplishments are few and that they were, indeed, created and appointed by Microsoft as Halo's caretakers.

I do not argue that all my points are without reproach in logic, nor do my fierce words mean I hate 343 Industries. I believe that hating a company is fruitless because a company does not feel; I only want to speak plainly about the design choices of 343i's Halo games that are in conflict with each other and in conflict with the gameplay of older Halos.

l'm not sure you realize this, but a good number of 343i's team members are former Bungie employees, so yes, they have played the original games.
Also, your points are solid, but I have to say, it's ok to be prosaic. You could ratchet your soap box down a wee little bit to address us foundering plebs and we wouldn't be any less appreciative of your message. Intelligence is not correlated with word count or with uses of the synonym button. As Mark Twain said, "I have made this letter longer than usual, only because I have not had time to make it shorter."
Only about 4 members at 343 used to be from bungie.
I'm not a fan of 343 but Bungie really lucked into Halo 1 and 2. They threw the H1 multiplayer together last minute and it turned into the most balanced multiplayer ever made. Halo 2 was garbage at launch and didn't turn into a great game until the patch and the arrival of BR starts. Halo 3 was a step backwards and was just a dumbed down slow version of H2 with inferior maps. Reach was an absolute joke. All that being said 343 is much worse. H4 is horrible and I could only stomach it for a month or so. H5 beta had we super excited after hearing "Halos going back to its roots". Boy was that a lie. H5 might as well aim for you bc it does everything else for you. It's a hand holding gimmicky nightmare. Hopefully everyone can agree if H5 fails that's 3 straight "Evolved Halo games" that have failed. Let's maybe go back to what actually worked.
AceM12 wrote:
I'm not a fan of 343 but Bungie really lucked into Halo 1 and 2. They threw the H1 multiplayer together last minute and it turned into the most balanced multiplayer ever made. Halo 2 was garbage at launch and didn't turn into a great game until the patch and the arrival of BR starts. Halo 3 was a step backwards and was just a dumbed down slow version of H2 with inferior maps. Reach was an absolute joke. All that being said 343 is much worse. H4 is horrible and I could only stomach it for a month or so. H5 beta had we super excited after hearing "Halos going back to its roots". Boy was that a lie. H5 might as well aim for you bc it does everything else for you. It's a hand holding gimmicky nightmare. Hopefully everyone can agree if H5 fails that's 3 straight "Evolved Halo games" that have failed. Let's maybe go back to what actually worked.
...Okay then.
Erik L wrote:
Erik L wrote:
Erik L wrote:
The C Milk wrote:
The last three posts were actually level headed and good ways to improve the game, not just complaining.

Well done guys I agree with a lot of your improvements/ideas.


Right now we have a bunch of mechanics that need fine tuning and admittedly Spartans need to feel a bit like Spartans again, I'm not bashing on Halo 1-3, but the Spartans felt more like a normal Marine in armor that was just there for protection and didn't feel like what you read about in the many books published by Bungie/343Industries.


How does couch jumping up to a ledge while simultaneously no-scoping somebody in the face, followed by immediately picking up their rocket launcher and blasting two more Spartans for a double kill, followed by a 180 degree turn to stick somebody with a plasma nade, followed by running across the map as you 4 shot somebody with the BR feel like a normal marine?
I mean, yeah, I do that everyday on my way to work.


Because that's something you can do in Call of Duty, you can easily do all that and yet they are these normal Marines.
These Spartans don't feel like Spartans except for in Halo 5, Halo 4 and Halo Reach

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not calling Halo 1-3 CoD, I'm just stating the Spartans we all read about in the books are lacking in that Spartan quality you loved to read up on, even the Spartan III's of Halo Reach didn't feel AT ALL like the Spartan III's you first heard about in Ghost of Onyx, where was all of that that we read about, a lot of people that I atleast know would have loved to actually been a Noble Six that was actually a Spartan III instead of a Spartan II with 3 slapped onto them


Then it's COD that isn't accurate. What kind of human, outside of Arnold, could do what I said??

And yes, the sniper was dropped for rocks... of course ;)


They honestly don't feel like Spartans to me, it was Halo, but not quite how I read about them in the books :P


Fair enough... But how does reducing base movement speed, adding Sprint and Thruster make you feel like a Spartan? It feels like I'm the same thing, basically. If the only difference between a Spartan and a regular human is that he can Sprint and Thrust? Not very impressive!

Because Spartans have had these long and rigorous training and augmentations to allow them to run faster (Kelly) and be a lot stronger then a normal human, in Halo 1-3 it didn't feel like I was fast like the Spartans I read about or strong like them, cause both an ODST and Spartan can use a Gravity Hammer like it weighs nothing, again, Spartans acted like a normal human, in Halo 5, I actually felt more like a Spartan should feel like.
The Spartans in Halo 5 aren't running any faster than I can, was my point.
Equipping a suit with Thrusters doesn't have anything to do with how strong or fast a Spartan is.
My car is fast. Am I a super human?
Regardless, I doubt 343i will even bother with our concerns and will continue to forge the game in their vision. I will play it anyway. I agree, it isn't like the old Halo games, but I mean, what can we do? I mean, honestly? Not everyone agrees with the whole 'Halo is dead' notion. They will still have a player base.
Regardless, I doubt 343i will even bother with our concerns and will continue to forge the game in their vision. I will play it anyway. I agree, it isn't like the old Halo games, but I mean, what can we do? I mean, honestly? Not everyone agrees with the whole 'Halo is dead' notion. They will still have a player base.
yup, i'm a stubborn -Yoink- loyalist, it doesn't matter how much i don't like the addition to the halo franchise, i'm still going to buy it cause it's chief, ya know?
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