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[Locked] 343i's Incompetent Game Design is Killing Halo

OP eman182

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OP I want to give you a hug. Everything about that post was 100% beautiful.
I wish even the mods could acknowledge this thread for what it is, the people here are speaking out against what Halo 5 has and neither the admins nor the heads of 343Industries are saying anything to there "fans"
IM RyterA wrote:
YFNP wrote:
Please, 343, take what eman182 has said to heart.


Has anyone from 343 even acknowledged this post? Pretty odd considering it's one of the most popular threads in recent memory.

The only one there actually paying attention to is the Beta Feedback Thread V2, otherwise no they're not, which is unfortunate because they could learn a lot from this thread
if that is the case can someone please copy emans passionate post and bring it to the appropriate thread
If you guys want classic Halo game play, get the MCC. That's the most you guys are probably going to get. Otherwise, move on. Moping and complaining about it won't do anything about this game's future, as far as we know anyway.
ArdAtak wrote:
eman182 wrote:
Morachip wrote:
eman182 wrote:
Adding sprint to Halo is a sympton of a greater disease: 343 Industries does not know how to create a compelling shooter, let alone fashion a great game befit the Halo series. If you recall, Microsoft did not pick 343 Industries to succeed Halo because of their merit as developers, but rather created them to house, feed, and milk the Halo cashcow Bungie abandoned in 2007. The only game that the in-house development team at 343 Industries made, Halo 4, was widely criticized as a terrible multiplayer game, so much so that 343 Industries had to strip it of all its "modernized" features to stymy the mass emmigration of its playerbase.


What rock have you been living under?
Bungie abandoned Halo in 2011, after BUNGIE released Reach, not 343. Everybody blames 343 for Reach's problems, they didn't make Reach, they were barely associated with it. You raise some legitimate concerns, but I can't take the majority of it seriously when you make such an obvious blunder in your opening paragraph.
Sprint was introduced by Bungie in Reach, along with armor abilities. 343 took armor abilities out again.
Did no one actually look at Reach's case? I find this way too often that someone thinks 343 made Reach. It is stamped in big letters "Bungie" on it. Is everybody else blind? Or am I just seeing things?



I may have gotten the date 343 Industries inherited the Halo series wrong.

But I show no favoritism to Bungie for developing Halo: Reach, nor am I a Reach apologist. Halo: Reach was a terrible multiplayer game with poor design choices (Aim Bloom being the worst offender) that are similar to the design choices that plague Halo 4 and Halo 5. In fact, I'd go as far to say that Bungie sabotaged 343 Industries by giving them an incorrect map to the Halo treasure when they released Halo: Reach and then handed over the reigns of the franchise. It's little surprise, then, that 343 Industries lost their way.

But I will state this: I don't care which company is at the helm of the Halo series. Companies are made of people, and people come and go, so a company's identity is ever-changing. What lives forever is the product those groups of people create, and that is why my post compares the gameplay of Halo 5 to the gameplay of Halos 1 to 3, the Halos that defined how the series's multiplayer plays.


Reach hooked me for years. The DMR brought even more skill to those who wish to fend for themselves with a precision weapon vs spray and pray. You seem to think everyone aspires to play this game from an MLG standpoint but that's not true. When I play the older Halos, they feel slow. I like sprint, I like the thruster, and I like clamber. OK, ground-pound is happy as !blam! but it's so rare I don't care. The volume of creative things you can do on the fly is magnified. Using thrusters to juke to a sword wielding noob charging at you is awesome and VERY satisfying. It's a different type of kill than 4 shotting with a BR which is all you seem to want to do over and over again. Using clamber to confuse and kill a guy chasing you around a corner is dope as !blam!. Love it. This might irritate some old-school die hards. I want to play Halo the same way Russell Wilson plays QB. You want to play it like Payton Manning. So ofcourse, you come out here and cry about how "QB shouldn't be allowed to run the ball", "the zone blitz" should be illegal, etc. Because you want to same predictable experience over and over again.

I'm not saying H5 is perfect. Your points about the controls is valid. They can alleviate this by adding some custom mapping options to the control scheme. Kill cams, assasinations, and a handful of other controversial issues can be made optional. I love the new medals, I love the announcer's voice, I love hearing the spartan chatter. I love all the medals. Pile them on. But fi these things are annoying to some then they should be options. Sure some the info is unnecessary, but so what. You say you want to play this game for fun. But I get the feeling that what you really want is to reduce the game to 1 or 2 skills that you're good and be the only one who feels good at the end of the game. Not because it was a fun / dynamic experience but because you scored more points and crushed everyone.
You have a very different opinion as to what reach was like compared to me/mine. "The DMR brought even more skill to those who wish to fend for themselves with a precision weapon vs spray and pray" < How? Don't get me wrong I like reach, it's just that your statement makes no objective points since you can also spray and pray with precision weapons and bloom encourages spray and pray.
"You seem to think everyone aspires to play this game from an MLG standpoint but that's not true" < No they didn't.
"When I play the older Halos, they feel slow" < To me it felt more deliberate, as in the actions I made where through to my understanding of the map, weapons and careful planning instead of Legging it to the sounds of gun fire then going through the exact same sequence of events since the abilities take prevalence and cause everyone to move the exact same way. Side-note > Thrusters now cause more problems to how Halo now flows than sprint (which can be fixed) ever has.
"Using thrusters to juke to a sword wielding noob charging at you is awesome and VERY satisfying" < it's also excessively easy to perform, which is where the argument "making Halo more accessible is killing Halo, as it reduces skill gap" comes from.
"you want to same predictable experience over and over again" No we don't, that's why we are arguing that the changes 343 have made are wrong or at least require major amendments/fixes.
"I love the new medals, I love the announcer's voice, I love hearing the spartan chatter. I love all the medals. Pile them on" < When everything's a medal nothings a medal, also I thought the announcer sounds overly cheesy this time round.

The techniques which got you out of tricky situations in previous Halos required skill, knowledge, awareness, timing, and talent. In H4&5 the techniques are purely a sequence of repetitive button presses that don't gel/transition well with each other, and also don't require as much skill, knowledge, awareness, timing or talent to implement. The movement features disjoint gun play, to the point where TTK is made longer through to people spamming thrusters (which takes no skill, only a shred of timing) instead of someones ability to strafe or return fire more accurately (f'ed up through to that flinch bull-plop being so prevalent like how bloom was so prevalent in reach) or knowing where to position ones self more safely (map knowledge).

My main point is I miss strafing like a boss to win gunfights, and planning/timing how to get power weapons over the enemy team, and winning a match actually meaning something.
Whoever developing sprint is a moron to think that COD sprint would work in Halo. Halo needs its own sprint that suits a Spartan (68-100kmh or 35-60mph) alongside far more effects/mechanical limitations placed upon it in order to balance it.

ArdAtak < You feel like a boss because the game became more accessible not because you utilized anything to greater effect, at least from the examples you gave. @_o!
If you guys want classic Halo game play, get the MCC. That's the most you guys are probably going to get. Otherwise, move on. Moping and complaining about it won't do anything about this game's future, as far as we know anyway.
if you know that worked 100%. Yea buy a pretty much broken game and encourage they do that too. This isn't moping or complaining. This is criticizing what should be rightfully criticized. Did you not read any of the first posts? He eloquently stated everything wrong with the game and how it might be improved. Why these design choices don't mesh well with Halo and why the old system is better. Just because you don't agree doesn't make it moping and complaining.
Benti86 wrote:
If you guys want classic Halo game play, get the MCC. That's the most you guys are probably going to get. Otherwise, move on. Moping and complaining about it won't do anything about this game's future, as far as we know anyway.


if you know that worked 100%. Yea buy a pretty much broken game and encourage they do that too. This isn't moping or complaining. This is criticizing what should be rightfully criticized. Did you not read any of the first posts? He eloquently stated everything wrong with the game and how it might be improved. Why these design choices don't mesh well with Halo and why the old system is better. Just because you don't agree doesn't make it moping and complaining.
I didn't say I disagreed, I'm just saying that this 'criticism' is not going to get anywhere. It's a waste of time. Do you guys honestly think 343i will listen?

Eventually Xbox 360 will no longer be supported, and MCC will be the last glimpse of the old Halo that everyone will get.

You guys are kicking a dead horse.
OP needs to be hired as a 343 adviser. Nothing gets in the game without prior approval. Some people understand what makes Halo, Halo. 343 clearly does not.
OP needs to be hired as a 343 adviser. Nothing gets in the game without prior approval. Some people understand what makes Halo, Halo. 343 clearly does not.
And if Halo 5 is a disappointment, what are you going to do about it?
OP needs to be hired as a 343 adviser. Nothing gets in the game without prior approval. Some people understand what makes Halo, Halo. 343 clearly does not.
amen, i agree totally, the original poster should be head 343i advisor, he knows true halo more then anyone currently working there, especially when most are former cod developers who hate traditional halo, frank oconnor admitted to purposely hiring people who hated halo so they could change and casualize it
OP needs to be hired as a 343 adviser. Nothing gets in the game without prior approval. Some people understand what makes Halo, Halo. 343 clearly does not.


amen, i agree totally, the original poster should be head 343i advisor, he knows true halo more then anyone currently working there, especially when most are former cod developers who hate traditional halo, frank oconnor admitted to purposely hiring people who hated halo so they could change and casualize it
Yes, he should be, but will he?

I doubt 343 will even look at this thread and/or consider it.
OP needs to be hired as a 343 adviser. Nothing gets in the game without prior approval. Some people understand what makes Halo, Halo. 343 clearly does not.


amen, i agree totally, the original poster should be head 343i advisor, he knows true halo more then anyone currently working there, especially when most are former cod developers who hate traditional halo, frank oconnor admitted to purposely hiring people who hated halo so they could change and casualize it

Yes, he should be, but will he?

I doubt 343 will even look at this thread and/or consider it.
if people are willing to share his post via e-mails , youtube videos etc maybe they just might, why dont you help share? im making a youtube video tonight and ive e-mailed and copied his message to many halo youtubers in comments and messages. im doing everything i can to ensure his message gets heard and seen. do you want halo to be cod?
Benti86 wrote:
If you guys want classic Halo game play, get the MCC. That's the most you guys are probably going to get. Otherwise, move on. Moping and complaining about it won't do anything about this game's future, as far as we know anyway.


if you know that worked 100%. Yea buy a pretty much broken game and encourage they do that too. This isn't moping or complaining. This is criticizing what should be rightfully criticized. Did you not read any of the first posts? He eloquently stated everything wrong with the game and how it might be improved. Why these design choices don't mesh well with Halo and why the old system is better. Just because you don't agree doesn't make it moping and complaining.

I didn't say I disagreed, I'm just saying that this 'criticism' is not going to get anywhere. It's a waste of time. Do you guys honestly think 343i will listen?
With enough complaints and lack of buying of there games, yes.
This thread and everybody on it has to make their way to the halo 5 feedback v2 or 343 won't see all this!!!!
I just don't know what it is about halo 5, but if I had to sum it up in one word it probably be "Irritating" the game just irks me the wrong way, maybe its the sounds, the spartan chatter, the way everything makes a clicking noise, the announcer, the super annoying death music. maybe its the graphics the dark areas, the blinding lights, all the flashes and doodads on the screen when in a firefight. maybe its people spamming thrust and smartscope. maybe its the controls and the clunky feeling, it might even be flinch or sprint. I just know that when I play halo 5 the only thing I can think about is how much I don't want to be playing halo 5, wether I'm winning or losing I'm not having FUN, and thats whats important in a game for me, its why I started playing halo 3 with my friends in the first place, I could always have fun on Halo 3 and Reach not so much with 4 but I had a few good customs, and thats what I really feel 343 has done to the franchise, halo 5 is a solid game, its well balanced its got a good skill gap,its competitive, its simple but deep. but its not FUN for me and I really don't want to play it. and it makes me sad that I can't have fun on halo anymore..

and I totally don't remember where I was going with this... blah blah, something deep, blah blah, its not FUN if I could even describe what Fun is? FUN is playing on guardian and your on top mid with the hammer and some one takes the grave lift from camo spawn, and they don't realize your standing there till its to late, and you scream PULL, and smash them in the face and there dead body goes flying through the air, yah thats fun, and halo 5 just doesn't have enough of those moments.

so yah maybe it needs more fusion coils?
Agree with the OP, however I think your well written plight will only fall on deaf ears. Anyone who played the original Halo 2 (the true Halo fans) will appreciate this analogy...

343 Industries are the Prophets.
They will claim to lead their followers to salvation. Halo 4 was supposed to return Halo to a golden era. Now Halo 5 is supposed to do the same. But in truth, they only seek to pursue their own selfish interests.

The disgruntled Halo veterans are the Elites.
Once age old and loyal followers, we were betrayed by the hierarchs. We now realise their deceit, that the great journey was a lie. 343 Industries don't know how to make a good Halo game. They never did.

The remaining fanbase are the Brutes.
Too headstrong and deluded, they think they are special ambassadors chosen to escort the Prophets to salvation. Yet they are blinded by the promises of the hierarchs. They continue to believe 343 Industries will make a good game. But their faith will not be rewarded.

I would like to proclaim a prophecy:
The Prophets will fade out, driven to near extinction and disappear. The Brutes will fall into disorder and tear each other apart. Whilst the Elites will move on to greener fields and greater things.

Return to Sanghelios whilst you still can.
Yours truly, a voice to be silenced,
But not the last to be heard,

Sesa 'Refumee
Holy -Yoink-, are you some kind of oracle?
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Honestly just don't buy the game.

If you want to play campaign, buy it used. 343 doesn't get that money.
The mods are unpaid community volunteers lol.
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