Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

[Locked] 343i's Incompetent Game Design is Killing Halo

OP eman182

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Celestis wrote:
No it really isn't. How is it? Because its just a game. Don't know what country you come from but in the UK people have gang fights with like 100 people for their football (soccer) team. That's just a game, people get involved with games and obsessed by them it is just human nature.

Dito for Germany.

On a side note: I'm just getting sick of some of my favorite franchises changing to the point of being unrecognisable for the sake of chumming up new audiences.

People may call me obsessive if they want, and they might not be that far off. If I really enjoy a universe, I like to invest myself in it. I want to know the backstory, experience every release there is and just live it. Halo was one of just a few other video game series (the only other that comes to mind right now being The Elder Scrolls) that gave me the same amount of immersion that I got from TV/Movie-franchises.

In the meantime, Stargate SG1 and Atlantis was cancelled for the sake of Stargate Universe, a horrible travesty that blatantly ripped off Battlestar in order to attract a younger audience with a new "hip and cool" style.
In the meantime, 40 years of Star Trek continuity were erased for the sake of Jar Jar Abrams' reboot trilogy, with more explosions and a young and fresh cast in order to attract a younger audience with a new "hip and cool" style.
Star Wars might not have been turned inside out yet, but Jar Jar Abrams is already working on it, and at least Disney has already retconned the entire Expanded Universe, thereby negating a few thousand (!) books, comics, games, etc.
Now Halo is completely changing its gameplay, art style, sound and more, for the sake of attracting new (and younger?) audiences from different fanbases. Sound familiar?

I'm just sick and tired of being stabbed in the back or thrown away as a fan after years and decades of loyality because the companies have no more need for the old fanbase that helped them to greatness...
+1. SGU sucked, SG-1 and SGA were amazing
Arn Royale wrote:
Celestis wrote:
No it really isn't. How is it? Because its just a game. Don't know what country you come from but in the UK people have gang fights with like 100 people for their football (soccer) team. That's just a game, people get involved with games and obsessed by them it is just human nature.


Dito for Germany.

On a side note: I'm just getting sick of some of my favorite franchises changing to the point of being unrecognisable for the sake of chumming up new audiences.

People may call me obsessive if they want, and they might not be that far off. If I really enjoy a universe, I like to invest myself in it. I want to know the backstory, experience every release there is and just live it. Halo was one of just a few other video game series (the only other that comes to mind right now being The Elder Scrolls) that gave me the same amount of immersion that I got from TV/Movie-franchises.

In the meantime, Stargate SG1 and Atlantis was cancelled for the sake of Stargate Universe, a horrible travesty that blatantly ripped off Battlestar in order to attract a younger audience with a new "hip and cool" style.
In the meantime, 40 years of Star Trek continuity were erased for the sake of Jar Jar Abrams' reboot trilogy, with more explosions and a young and fresh cast in order to attract a younger audience with a new "hip and cool" style.
Star Wars might not have been turned inside out yet, but Jar Jar Abrams is already working on it, and at least Disney has already retconned the entire Expanded Universe, thereby negating a few thousand (!) books, comics, games, etc.
Now Halo is completely changing its gameplay, art style, sound and more, for the sake of attracting new (and younger?) audiences from different fanbases. Sound familiar?

I'm just sick and tired of being stabbed in the back or thrown away as a fan after years and decades of loyality because the companies have no more need for the old fanbase that helped them to greatness...

+1. SGU sucked, SG-1 and SGA were amazing

Just started watching SG-1 all over again, I love the series as much as I love Halo, also Atlantis was amazing as well.
I feel like Universe could have been so much better if it hadn't been like Battlestar, that's why it only lasted 2 Seasons, let that be proof that being "hip and cool" doesn't always work with fans.

I'm not saying stay with Halo1-3, but don't make so many drastic changes because you Hated X but would love to put Y in, that's not how it works and I'll quote the great Dr. Halsey for this, "343Industries act like children in the sandbox, mistaking its edges for the limits of the world."343 thinks that the features in CE-3 were awful, then why should they even be touching the game if they can't respect its fundamental laws established by Bungie.

Here's another quote I think fits us fans very well, "We are Forerunners, guardians of all that exists. The roots of the galaxy have grown deep under our careful tending. Where there is life, the wisdom of our countless generations has saturated the soil, Our strength is a luminous sun towards which all intelligence blossoms. And the impervious shelter beneath which it has prospered.

I stand before you. Accused of the sin of ensuring Forerunner ascendancy. Of attempting to save us from this fate where we are forced to... recede...343Industries stands as the greatest threat in the galaxy, Refusing to eradicate them is a fool's gambit.

We squander eons in the darkness, while they seize our triumphs for their own, The Mantle of Responsibility, for all things, belongs to Forerunners alone!

Think of my acts as you will, but do not doubt the reality, The reclamation... has already begun, and we are hopeless to stop it."

let this quote ring out across the message boards and other parts of the forums, show 343industries we won't let them push us any further, refuse to preorder the game, wait a month to even purchase the full game and don't give 343Industries any of our money until they can prove they are worthy of Halo's Mantle.

We are the dawn of a new age, we must show we can't be pushed by these gaming companies any longer, RISE UP AND TAKE A STAND!
Celestis wrote:
No it really isn't. How is it? Because its just a game. Don't know what country you come from but in the UK people have gang fights with like 100 people for their football (soccer) team. That's just a game, people get involved with games and obsessed by them it is just human nature.

Dito for Germany.

On a side note: I'm just getting sick of some of my favorite franchises changing to the point of being unrecognisable for the sake of chumming up new audiences.

People may call me obsessive if they want, and they might not be that far off. If I really enjoy a universe, I like to invest myself in it. I want to know the backstory, experience every release there is and just live it. Halo was one of just a few other video game series (the only other that comes to mind right now being The Elder Scrolls) that gave me the same amount of immersion that I got from TV/Movie-franchises.

In the meantime, Stargate SG1 and Atlantis was cancelled for the sake of Stargate Universe, a horrible travesty that blatantly ripped off Battlestar in order to attract a younger audience with a new "hip and cool" style.
In the meantime, 40 years of Star Trek continuity were erased for the sake of Jar Jar Abrams' reboot trilogy, with more explosions and a young and fresh cast in order to attract a younger audience with a new "hip and cool" style.
Star Wars might not have been turned inside out yet, but Jar Jar Abrams is already working on it, and at least Disney has already retconned the entire Expanded Universe, thereby negating a few thousand (!) books, comics, games, etc.
Now Halo is completely changing its gameplay, art style, sound and more, for the sake of attracting new (and younger?) audiences from different fanbases. Sound familiar?

I'm just sick and tired of being stabbed in the back or thrown away as a fan after years and decades of loyality because the companies have no more need for the old fanbase that helped them to greatness...
i too am sick of companies that do this, i agree with all the things you mentioned above. these companies will only harm the franchises and move them into irrelevance by making said changes. 343 with their codification of the halo franchise will kill it, halo 5 will be the last straw
Rippendeil wrote:
You may like H5, or you may not, but please don't come here and tell that H5 feels faster than older Halos. It does not. OP proved that already. Maybe it "feels" faster because you are herpderping around the map without obstacles, but when it comes down to gunplay, it is not fast. Peek shooting and running on endless deadzones does not make the game play fast. Hectic game play does not equal fast game play.

Just watch H2 Midship 4v4 and H5 Truth 4v4 and tell me which one is faster. I'm not seeing too many H2 midship games ending at the time limit...
sprint elongates the maps, and when you add all the armor abilities I MEAN SPARTAN ABILITIES people just run away and dodge and escape. combine all these changes and games become like cat and mouse.halo has nearly completed is transformation into a full on generic dudebro twitch shooter.
I'm starting to think all these people complaining about sprint and smart scope are just bad players who can't adapt to change. I am wrecking people in multiplayer and loving all these new abilities. I feel more in tune with my Spartan than I ever have in any past halo game and believe me when I say I am a very seasoned veteran of the halo franchise.
Smart Link is certainly not a good change. I can see where you are coming from with Sprint, but not Smart Link. It takes up space on the screen and helps some weapons too much.
I'm starting to think all these people complaining about sprint and smart scope are just bad players who can't adapt to change. I am wrecking people in multiplayer and loving all these new abilities. I feel more in tune with my Spartan than I ever have in any past halo game and believe me when I say I am a very seasoned veteran of the halo franchise.

Smart Link is certainly not a good change. I can see where you are coming from with Sprint, but not Smart Link. It takes up space on the screen and helps some weapons too much.
i also abhor ads, i agree it takes up way too much space on the screen. 343 needs to bring back classic zoom or a variation on it, not this ads rip off from call of dooody and boringfield
Arn Royale wrote:
I disagree with your post because I quite enjoy H5's multiplayer

Killcams are not useful? Go live on Australian internet and tell me that again, 8 times out of ten you can't tell how you died because you were shot through a wall and that has been a problem in every game I have ever played on every halo and I have one of the best gaming connections in the country, bar the military grade which is unobtainable.


You might have been killed even though you were behind a wall, because of bullet magnetism(which has been a new phenomenon within the newer installments of the Halo series). Bullets now curve towards your enemies, might even hit you behind walls.

I do not like kill cams because I want to use my death cam to help my team by calling out locations of the enemies, where they are headed, as well as I want to see whether the grenade I tossed, killed my enemy.
bullet magnetisim must completely go away and reduce the auto aim, make halo based on skill and stop catering to cod kiddies who want instant gratificationa dn success without effort or difficulty.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
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How is one game going to make the entire series irrelevant?
to all those who are new to this thread , please read eman182's original post on page 1, its a brilliant, beautiful and eloquent worded synopsis on how the majority of halo fans feel about 343's direction. its a bit long but its worth reading. please read it all before jumping the gun and commenting. if 343 listens to emans criticizims halo will come back to the forefornt of gaming. reach was a step in the wrong direction, a bungie/343 effort, then call of failo 4 was released. it bombed, it had 400 k active daily peak players at launch and in a single pathetic month it dropped to less then 30 k players and the population has dwindled since. this is not only bad for a halo game but any game in general, reach was strike one, and halo 4 was a BIG strike 2. halo 5 seems set to repeat this, i and many others do not see halo surviving past this iteration should it fail as hard as 4 did.

halo2 was the most played game on xbox live well into the 36-'s life, then replaced by halo 3. halo 3 had nearly a million people playing when it launched and after 2 years of release had a active daily peak population of over 200k. classic skill based balanced teamwork halo trumps the codified 343 generic dudebro twitch shooter halo every day of the week. halo was a arena/tactical shooter and it has lost its spirit, its identity. the online numbers and sales prove it. the massive fan outcry proves it. if halo 5 fails the series will become irrelevant.
Arn Royale wrote:
I disagree with your post because I quite enjoy H5's multiplayer

Killcams are not useful? Go live on Australian internet and tell me that again, 8 times out of ten you can't tell how you died because you were shot through a wall and that has been a problem in every game I have ever played on every halo and I have one of the best gaming connections in the country, bar the military grade which is unobtainable.



You might have been killed even though you were behind a wall, because of bullet magnetism(which has been a new phenomenon within the newer installments of the Halo series). Bullets now curve towards your enemies, might even hit you behind walls.

I do not like kill cams because I want to use my death cam to help my team by calling out locations of the enemies, where they are headed, as well as I want to see whether the grenade I tossed, killed my enemy.

bullet magnetisim must completely go away and reduce the auto aim, make halo based on skill and stop catering to cod kiddies who want instant gratificationa dn success without effort or difficulty.
I agree with bullet magnetism being reduced and hit boxes shrinking But the Auto aim is the lowest its been since halo ce Most of what people are saying is an issue with bullet magnetism and hit boxes is also and issue of netcode, lag, and issue with killcams and video capture not really showing what happens.
Arn Royale wrote:
Celestis wrote:
No it really isn't. How is it? Because its just a game. Don't know what country you come from but in the UK people have gang fights with like 100 people for their football (soccer) team. That's just a game, people get involved with games and obsessed by them it is just human nature.


Dito for Germany.

On a side note: I'm just getting sick of some of my favorite franchises changing to the point of being unrecognisable for the sake of chumming up new audiences.

People may call me obsessive if they want, and they might not be that far off. If I really enjoy a universe, I like to invest myself in it. I want to know the backstory, experience every release there is and just live it. Halo was one of just a few other video game series (the only other that comes to mind right now being The Elder Scrolls) that gave me the same amount of immersion that I got from TV/Movie-franchises.

In the meantime, Stargate SG1 and Atlantis was cancelled for the sake of Stargate Universe, a horrible travesty that blatantly ripped off Battlestar in order to attract a younger audience with a new "hip and cool" style.
In the meantime, 40 years of Star Trek continuity were erased for the sake of Jar Jar Abrams' reboot trilogy, with more explosions and a young and fresh cast in order to attract a younger audience with a new "hip and cool" style.
Star Wars might not have been turned inside out yet, but Jar Jar Abrams is already working on it, and at least Disney has already retconned the entire Expanded Universe, thereby negating a few thousand (!) books, comics, games, etc.
Now Halo is completely changing its gameplay, art style, sound and more, for the sake of attracting new (and younger?) audiences from different fanbases. Sound familiar?

I'm just sick and tired of being stabbed in the back or thrown away as a fan after years and decades of loyality because the companies have no more need for the old fanbase that helped them to greatness...


+1. SGU sucked, SG-1 and SGA were amazing


Just started watching SG-1 all over again, I love the series as much as I love Halo, also Atlantis was amazing as well.
I feel like Universe could have been so much better if it hadn't been like Battlestar, that's why it only lasted 2 Seasons, let that be proof that being "hip and cool" doesn't always work with fans.

I'm not saying stay with Halo1-3, but don't make so many drastic changes because you Hated X but would love to put Y in, that's not how it works and I'll quote the great Dr. Halsey for this, "343Industries act like children in the sandbox, mistaking its edges for the limits of the world."343 thinks that the features in CE-3 were awful, then why should they even be touching the game if they can't respect its fundamental laws established by Bungie.

Here's another quote I think fits us fans very well, "We are Forerunners, guardians of all that exists. The roots of the galaxy have grown deep under our careful tending. Where there is life, the wisdom of our countless generations has saturated the soil, Our strength is a luminous sun towards which all intelligence blossoms. And the impervious shelter beneath which it has prospered.

I stand before you. Accused of the sin of ensuring Forerunner ascendancy. Of attempting to save us from this fate where we are forced to... recede...343Industries stands as the greatest threat in the galaxy, Refusing to eradicate them is a fool's gambit.

We squander eons in the darkness, while they seize our triumphs for their own, The Mantle of Responsibility, for all things, belongs to Forerunners alone!

Think of my acts as you will, but do not doubt the reality, The reclamation... has already begun, and we are hopeless to stop it."

let this quote ring out across the message boards and other parts of the forums, show 343industries we won't let them push us any further, refuse to preorder the game, wait a month to even purchase the full game and don't give 343Industries any of our money until they can prove they are worthy of Halo's Mantle.

We are the dawn of a new age, we must show we can't be pushed by these gaming companies any longer, RISE UP AND TAKE A STAND!
I'm in agreement there since they have changed so much, changed anything that makes a Halo game fun, well they seem to be trying to make a game that feels nothing like a Halo game, they know their changes are not popular with most people.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not bump.
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Salty much lol.
What's this about the "majority of halo fans"?
The majority don't bother with the forums.

I only turn up when I am at work. :D
I really wish this thread would die. People are quoting the lore that 343 wrote, antagonizing them. Unless there is a way to guarantee a true number count of player opinions, people need to stop saying this negativity is the view of the "majority" for players. Not everyone that grew up with the old games is in that group (I very much intend to buy the game, and have played every Halo game in the main series mo re times than I would want to admit).

FYI, Microsoft is one of the reasons for these changes. So going to them to complain is asinine. If you truly hate a company, get off of their forums and stop playing their games. Find a better Avenue for your time and money than to criticize and condemn a business for appealing to a wider audience.
W-WHAT ARE YOU DOING, STOP THIS AT ONCE!

Small, tight maps with battle rifles and exclusive spartan play isn't what makes Halo special to me.
It's the larger landscapes with loud Warthogs, chain guns and other iconic Halo vehicles and warfare between Elites and Spartans which makes Halo, Halo to me.
Halo 4 and its removal of Elites from multiplayer entirely, along with Ordnance dropping power weapons, making Warthogs suicidal and worthless - disappointed me.
And it would appear that with Halo 5 and its beta, there's no change to that.

Halo was the reason I ditched my playstation 2 and went Xbox.
And so it continued with the 360.
Halo was reason that I would've bought an Xbox One but now Halo is the reason to why I won't.
The multiplayer has been heading away from the themes and features that I loved the most and which had me playing for years, whilst Halo 5 will no doubt be fun in its own right, if it will only last me and most others in the community ( Online activity dropped in Halo 4 drastically and fast post launch compared to Halo Reach which had its community torn in the first place. ) as long as Halo 4 did, then one's better off holding onto their money for something else.
I'm a huge Halo Universe/Lore follower and if the multiplayer will fail to entice me, then a youtube walk-through will provide for me.

I for one believe that ''Next-Gen'' Halo should've been bolder and strived to provide multiplayer and conflict in greater scales akin to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn84-U_6jE8
TripleT219 wrote:
Not everyone that grew up with the old games is in that group (I very much intend to buy the game, and have played every Halo game in the main series mo re times than I would want to admit).
This point is really irrelevant to the discussion. DIsregard what I am about to say if you are talking about the campaign and not the multiplayer.

You seem to think that every FPS game needs to give the player relatively the same experience. 343 could have innovated on top of Halo's core principles and took inspiration from games like Counter-Strike or other traditional arena shooters on PC. Doing so would not have introduced such tired and generic elements that are in every single FPS game on consoles. And while its not like Halo plays like those games, some of the foundational principles of gameplay are similar. Example: They could have looked to see how games like that alter player movement speed.

Instead 343 has chosen to be inspired from the trendiest console games like COD, TF, etc. So now we have stuff like ADS and Running With Guns Down. The new mechanisms that have been inspired by the trendiest of console shooters are fundamentally a different style of shooters than Halo. These mechanisms are unnatural and cause deep underlying issues to gameplay. Example: Reduced effectiveness of strafing due to increased bullet magnetism and slower base movement speed.

As WerepyreND stated earlier in the thread, "Instead of trying to pander to a completely different audience with loadouts and killstreaks, they are pandering to a different audience with the recent 'mobility' craze." Is the evidence from Halo 4 and Halo 5 pure coincidence? Or are we starting to see the direction 343 wants to take Halo.

Growing up with the old games is really irrelevant. Its about Halo preserving its identity in FPS circles and remaining unique in a sea of FPS games that has over-saturated the market. If someone doesn't like the way Halo plays then they can choose an experience they prefer. Halo shouldn't be a game that just conforms to the trends around release date. Halo has alway been a rare breed in the FPS genre. But now its becoming just another shooter.

Do people really think casuals, non-XBox console gamers, PC gamers, non-FPS gamers are suddenly going to take notice of Halo because the totality of the experience is so similar to other trendy console shooters? Not in the least. They will now look at Halo and say, "its just another shooter." This was never the case before because not only did Halo provide a unique experience in gameplay, but the mechanics weren't overly homogenized to make it feel and look like other games.

343 could have found inspiration in other kinds of FPS games, but they decided to look to the trendiest games available on console. Want to know bad business? When you take something unique in a market and then make it more similar to the alternatives.
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the xbox one needs halo 5 to be good, if it isnt and it turns out to be just another cod clone, a generic dudebro twitch shooter thats indistinguishable in the vast sea of generic twitch shooters, the series will become irrelevant and will make alot of people turn away from the xbox one. that will either kill the series and we wont see a 6 or if we do 6 will sell terribly. xbox one's success i believe is tied to halo. halo sold the original xbox, and the 360, i believe it will kill the xbox one if 343 is allowed to continue down this dark path!
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