Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

[Locked] 343i, stop ignoring the comp players

OP l Jinxed I

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The Limpo wrote:
Raven XCVl wrote:
The Limpo wrote:
Raven XCVl wrote:
The Limpo wrote:
Raven XCVl wrote:
The Limpo wrote:
Raven XCVl wrote:
H5 has the worst radar in the franchise, its unreliable and most of the time you never pay attention to it. I dont think it should be done away with, if anything it needs a tune up. Im a comp player and it doesnt bother me
Raven XCVl wrote:
As for the " Nerf the AR" really? For 15 years ive been listening to Comp and Cas players cry that they want a balanced AR that would be actually usefull and now that you have one, youre still unhappy
Raven XCVl wrote:
Solursus wrote:
Raven XCVl wrote:
As for the " Nerf the AR" really? For 15 years ive been listening to Comp and Cas players cry that they want a balanced AR that would be actually usefull and now that you have one, youre still unhappy
Hey buddy, believe it or not, you can have a viable weapon sandbox with crappy balance. That's not an impossible to comprehend concept.
Ive been comp Halo player for 15 years and its the most balanced Halo since CE. I also know what people have been saying for the past 15 years and when they finally get it, they cry about it and are still unhappy. Cant have your cake and eat it too. The AR is fine as it is. People need to learn to not get mad when they get out played by someone whos got an AR and stop yelling NERF! NERF! NERF! or NOOB WEAPON! NOOB WEAPON! If you get out played by someone its bc you allowed it to happen. The AR is a close to mid range weapon, deal with it. If you go into the fight with the wrong tools for the job, well its your fault buddy
Dude sorry to break this to you, but I don't think you are that kind of a competitive player with this mindset. And good players KNOWS when to use the AR that's not the problem.
u know nothing about me dude so dont make assumptions
I know only what you wrote here and I can see your service record. And if you are as old as your gamertag says you haven't been here for 15 years. (Those numbers maybe has some other meaning what do I know)
wow bc ive got numbers in my GT must put the nail in my coffin right? Again you know nothing about me. And as far as my stats, im an adult, meaning ive got more important things to do than playing video games all day, like work, college, completing my firefighter\EMT training. Ive been here for 15 years. Again dont make assumptions
Ok, sorry! No, but it's very common for people to do that. And I said that "those numbers maybe has some other meaning what do I know". For real what do they stand for? :)

I am also an adult. You might be older than me(what do I know), but I also have a job. I also have studied at a university. I also don't have the time to play all day too, even though I wish I could. But those opinions you had about competitive halo or what competitive halo is, is not very common in the competitive community. That's why I said what I said.
No disrespect lol Thats just what ive experienced over the years from other players and myself
I wasn't assaulting you. I was just stating that the way you looked at it, is not the same way most of the competitive community looks at it. Therefore making you not that kind of competitive person. Atleast not in halo 5. There was an EU pro scrim yesterday with no radar and they said "it was the most fun they have had in halo 5." They also said that "the AR wasn't that big of a problem when there was no radar. Cuz people weren't crouching around corners waiting for someone to pop up on the radar. Making the most fights happen with pistols."

There will be a 2 team, community founded, NA event on Friday when EnvyUs and Luminosity Gaming will face off eachother with no radar. To test how it plays. It will be streamed on twitch on team beyond' channel. I encourage everyone to watch it to see what you think think about it. :)
Thanks for the info I'll be looking forward to watching it
I thought Halo 5 catered the competitive crowd and left casuals in the dust...
One might've thought that to be true when the game first came out, but now the casual community has Warzone, Warzone Assault, Warzone Firefight, BTB, Action Sack, Infection, Griffball, and rotational playlists such as Super Fiesta. Warzone Firefight was a huge addition to this game that took months of 343's attention. Action Sack, Infection, BTB, Griffball--they all might have maps that were made by the community, but 343 had to take the time to run playtests on them and make sure they were fit to be played by the masses before creating playlists to home them. Not to mention that with every update comes a new Warzone map or maybe two along with multiple new REQ weapons and vehicles, while the competitive crowd gets one new second-rate map if they're lucky.

The truth is even the most competitive playlists don't cater to the competitive crowd as much as they should. While the casual community has been making demands and at least seeing half of those demands become reality, the competitive community has been asking 343 for changes and receiving silence for the most part. I believe the most recent handout to the competitive crowd was the Doubles playlist and that was after people had been pleading for the playlist for months.

Competitive playlists and settings are in desperate need of a refresh catering more to the crowds they're intended for.
and yet we still play on mostly 4v4 maps(still no dedicated 2v2 maps).I will also try to watch the no radar team beyond stream mentioned in I limpo i's post since i watched a pro scrim with no radar.But they should remove spartan charge for this
Watched SeptiQs team scrim the Buks with no Radar - looked excellent. Comms will be key though......

(glares at players from last night sitting mute......)
I played a few arena games this morning and pay particular attention to how radar effected the game. 2 main things happened:

I was unable to help teammates quickly enough cuz radar and crouching is slow af
Crouching shotgun and storm rifle plays dominated the games.

Both of those scenarios happened multiple times per game.

just saying... nothing about that is fun to play or watch
Apoll0 wrote:
I played a few arena games this morning and pay particular attention to how radar effected the game. 2 main things happened:
I was unable to help teammates quickly enough cuz radar and crouching is slow af
Crouching shotgun and storm rifle plays dominated the games.
Both of those scenarios happened multiple times per game.
just saying... nothing about that is fun to play or watch
The other posts obviously didn't read what I said but this deserves mention.

This reads "I played a few games and did so conservatively. I never took risks and therefore I couldn't help my teammates, whom themselves may have been taking risks thinking they would have backup."
And yes, it is understandable there are those that do not wish to play that style.
But perhaps this will help a PoV for you.

When you train for something, you push yourself harder than the actual event you're getting ready for. The idea is that you push your body to extremes under controlled conditions, that way you can react to "slower paced" scenarios within the actual game.
Direct Halo analogy, many train in the octagon in custom Halo games to work on their spawning reactions, to get used to countering a spawn trap.... But a game is not entirely spawn trapping, it just can happen. So we train for those events, but we don't rely on them.

Hardcore indeed can exist separate from HCS, which as of now, still intends to represent H5G as a whole.
The very idea is that you are always training with precision or PW weapons (like full PW tier), and no Motion Tracker. This style of gameplay is direct training for high level play WITHOUT having to be THE high level play.

You get to take this hardcore style of play into Arena/HCS and "pwn", not because you rule at the hardcore settings but because you train in a way that League Rules assist your skill.

It's untrue to state that competition only revolves around the highest levels of play BY DESIGN. The highest level of play comes from players creating their own meta-game, not designing it.
It's untrue to believe the major sports league didn't go through these same growing pains (plus others), and don't create games from everyone's input (especially the untapped market of those not watching). The majors constantly change their rules to account for player injuries, desire way of playing and the audiences wishes to see.

(And again, HCS wants to make changes for more viewers. More viewers than just the hardcore crowd.... MORE VIEWERS THAN JUST THE HARDCORE CROWD.)
You can't claim to want a health competitive scene but only include the elite's PoV on how it should be. It is not why RTS leagues, or even CoD leagues are (some where) bigger than Halo. They're bigger because they're more accessible! (which is where the issue of making HCS different than the game's universal settings).
Please, don't repost your same arguement worded differently. I won't reply.
Apoll0 wrote:
I played a few arena games this morning and pay particular attention to how radar effected the game. 2 main things happened:
I was unable to help teammates quickly enough cuz radar and crouching is slow af
Crouching shotgun and storm rifle plays dominated the games.
Both of those scenarios happened multiple times per game.
just saying... nothing about that is fun to play or watch
The other posts obviously didn't read what I said but this deserves mention.

This reads "I played a few games and did so conservatively. I never took risks and therefore I couldn't help my teammates, whom themselves may have been taking risks thinking they would have backup."
And yes, it is understandable there are those that do not wish to play that style.
But perhaps this will help a PoV for you.

No, that's how you want it to read. you're projecting. it reads, "I could not get to my teammates fast enough to make a play without show on radar and getting killed. If i had sprinted, i would have died and they would have taken control of that entire side of the map. Not a worthy trade for maybe picking up one kill." I was paying attention to the way radar effects decision making, not playing any differently than I usually would. I also never said that i was always on the receiving end. I was the beneficiary of whoring radar multiple times. got kills that I IN NO WAY DESERVED because I got lucky seeing a little red dot.

When you train for something, you push yourself harder than the actual event you're getting ready for. The idea is that you push your body to extremes under controlled conditions, that way you can react to "slower paced" scenarios within the actual game.
Direct Halo analogy, many train in the octagon in custom Halo games to work on their spawning reactions, to get used to countering a spawn trap.... But a game is not entirely spawn trapping, it just can happen. So we train for those events, but we don't rely on them.

No. first, your description of how to train for things is oversimplified. Its not a one size fits all situation. If football players and basketball players trained harder than they played in games, their bodies would fall apart. same with marathon runners. and of course the opposite is true too, depending on the sport, occupation, whatever. Training is different for video games too and im sorry but you can't make an assumption as to what works best in that regard either. Players play octagon to improve their shot and warm up. It has nothing to do with "escaping from spawn traps". Spawn traps are also not something that "just happens". Good players can manipulate the spawn system by blocking certain other spawn to get the enemy to spawn where they want them to. Octogan has nothing to do with that.... Its all about your shot.

Hardcore indeed can exist separate from HCS, which as of now, still intends to represent H5G as a whole. Did Josh Holmes tell you this or something? this is not fact. You are presenting it as such, but you are making a leap. The fact that there is no breakout, only certain maps and gametypes directly refutes this statement... if it was meant to represent H5 as a whole, it would have more (worse) maps, gametypes, AI and stuff like that.... But its not.

The very idea is that you are always training with precision or PW weapons (like full PW tier), and no Motion Tracker. This style of gameplay is direct training for high level play WITHOUT having to be THE high level play. No it's not.... Octagon is training for your shot. MM is training for team chemistry and cohesion and just grinding muscle memory. Scrims against other top teams are training for tournaments. those need to use the same settings so that you are ingraining the same tactics into your brain and making it instinctive. training with only pistols and no motion tracker is going to give you habits that will not carry over to a game with tons of autos and radar. To get really good at an individual thing, you have to practice that individual thing. This insistence that its OK to separate a more difficult, higher skill gap, faster game variant from the tournament settings (ie hardcore with no radar and league and tournaments with it) is backwards.

You get to take this hardcore style of play into Arena/HCS and "pwn", not because you rule at the hardcore settings but because you train in a way that League Rules assist your skill. same as above. if you get habits from playing without radar, like faster flanks that will show you on radar when it is turned on, or less reliance on hiding with automatics, you will be at a disadvantage. Simple Law of specificity article. Professionals of all types (athletes and others) have known this for a very long time.

It's untrue to state that competition only revolves around the highest levels of play BY DESIGN. The highest level of play comes from players creating their own meta-game, not designing it. Half true, its both. I never claimed otherwise, but design can help significantly. This is why the rules for professional leagues are always different than they are for lower leagues. The NBA has different 3 second rules, shot clocks, 3 point line. same with the NFL, MLB (Edit: originally said MLG, Freudian slip), NHL, etc etc. If your sentiment on this were true, the professionals would play by the same rules as i do when i go to the gym. That clearly is not the case, and wouldn't make any sense if it was. It's untrue to believe the major sports league didn't go through these same growing pains (plus others), and don't create games from everyone's input (especially the untapped market of those not watching). The majors constantly change their rules to account for player injuries, desire way of playing and the audiences wishes to see. No, they take their cues from players, coaches, and experts in other areas (like sports writers, trainers, etc) and the history of their sport. not the casual fan that watches games on sundays. i would like to know where you are getting this information?(And again, HCS wants to make changes for more viewers. More viewers than just the hardcore crowd.... MORE VIEWERS THAN JUST THE HARDCORE CROWD.)
You can't claim to want a health competitive scene but only include the elite's PoV on how it should be. It is not why RTS leagues, or even CoD leagues are (some where) bigger than Halo. They're bigger because they're more accessible! (which is where the issue of making HCS different than the game's universal settings).
Please, don't repost your same arguement worded differently. I won't reply. Ok, lets use the best example there is. Countersrike. The most successful FPS out there in the esports arena. it does NOT use the same settings as the casual, "for fun" matchmaking. Rounds are shorter, you get less money per round, more total rounds need to be played to win, different weapons cost different prices and BTW there is no radar. When Competitive Halo was in a state where it was sustaining itself with 0 developer support (bungie was terrible for this), bigger open lans that built the MLG brand, and had higher viewership, the competitive settings were much much much different than default. Much moreso than what we are asking here. Keeping the settings vanilla for the past year has not built viewership either, so there is already evidence with H5 showing that your idea here is wrong.
Competitive and causal playlist need to have separate settings. H1-Reach had separate settings for the two vastly different scenes. I understand what you(343) were trying to do with universal settings, it just does not work in practice.

I do not want the causal scene to have no radar, I want them to have the settings that they desire and like the most. The benefit of one scene does not mean the death of the other.

343 needs to realize that they will not please everyone by riding the fence. Give the causal players their settings, and the comp players theirs. We each have fun playing in different ways, give us a game that reflects that. Stop coasting on the Halo brand and let us thrive again.
I notice that if you don't push the joystick forward all the way you won't show up on radar but are still slower, not crouching slow but it may be something
I notice that if you don't push the joystick forward all the way you won't show up on radar but are still slower, not crouching slow but it may be something
I have done that before, but its not consistent and the only way to know if you are not on radar, is to stare at your radar intently so you lose awareness of anything else that is going on. With crouching you can still look around and just glance at your radar without worrying if you are showing up or not. Both are still way too slow to move around the map any appreciable distance. :(
Apoll0 wrote:
I notice that if you don't push the joystick forward all the way you won't show up on radar but are still slower, not crouching slow but it may be something
I have done that before, but its not consistent and the only way to know if you are not on radar, is to stare at your radar intently so you lose awareness of anything else that is going on. With crouching you can still look around and just glance at your radar without worrying if you are showing up or not. Both are still way too slow to move around the map any appreciable distance. :(
True true. The solution to this whole mess is so simple but everyone is seeming to over complicate things
Apoll0 wrote:
I notice that if you don't push the joystick forward all the way you won't show up on radar but are still slower, not crouching slow but it may be something
I have done that before, but its not consistent and the only way to know if you are not on radar, is to stare at your radar intently so you lose awareness of anything else that is going on. With crouching you can still look around and just glance at your radar without worrying if you are showing up or not. Both are still way too slow to move around the map any appreciable distance. :(
True true. The solution to this whole mess is so simple but everyone is seeming to over complicate things
I am in 100% agreement haha.
Apoll0 wrote:
Apoll0 wrote:
I notice that if you don't push the joystick forward all the way you won't show up on radar but are still slower, not crouching slow but it may be something
I have done that before, but its not consistent and the only way to know if you are not on radar, is to stare at your radar intently so you lose awareness of anything else that is going on. With crouching you can still look around and just glance at your radar without worrying if you are showing up or not. Both are still way too slow to move around the map any appreciable distance. :(
True true. The solution to this whole mess is so simple but everyone is seeming to over complicate things
I am in 100% agreement haha.
I only wish for 343 to create CTF, Strongholds, and Assault as their own ranked playlists like Slayer is. Like why is slayer so special it gets its own personal playlist And I feel like the chance you get a slayer game in team arena is much higher then the objective based games.
Halo started as the competitive arena shooter, and so should it return to being a competitive arena shooter.

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