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[Locked] A protest letter to 343

OP JEDI DNA

A protest letter to 343
343, you have done a great work with Halo so far, your big recurring mistake is that you keep forgetting where Halo came from. Halo 4 campaign was REALLY amazing and one of the best of all time. Halo 4 problem was that youguys forgot the arena multiplayer origins of Halo and tryed to mimic some other game things (like loadouts and ordinances) making the game loose some of its identity. Fortunately, all that could be disable by in game settings. Halo 5 really seems promising and I'm sure It will have one of the best campaigns ever, but no split screen at all? Not even in competitive multiplayer? Again youguys are forgetting about Halo's lanparty arena origins? And why? To keep it 60 fps? REALLY?
It's really troubling knowing that these magic numbers (1080, 60 fps) are becoming more important that actual gameplay. Specially when that comes from an important developer like 343 in the worlds most important franchise that is Halo. Youguys are forgetting about the very first Halo fan base this time around. The one that made Halo what is today. Besides, do youguys think that Halo fans don't have REAL friends that enjoy drinking some beer while killing each other and laughing about someone ridiculous death? 60 fps is great thing but I'm pretty sure no one would mind a much lower framerate just when splitting the screen with 4 friends.
I REALLY hope youguys reconsider this matter BEFORE its too late.
Sorry about my bad english, Its not my primary language.
PS: Halo split screen lanparties are the very reason Xbox One exist today.
There is two player split screen online for multiplayer.
JEDI DNA wrote:

PS: Halo split screen lanparties are the very reason Xbox One exist today.
XBL was in development before Halo proved to be popular.

As for the split screen, I would not mind a drop in frame rate for local play splitscreen. but for competitive and online play, I want my own screen. every day. but again, ive maintained side by side tv/xbox/halo since halo ce and playing on gstunnel/xbconnect days
If you're saying that 1080p and 60 frames contributes less to gameplay than splitscreen, then something isn't right. I want you to go play the MCC. I want you to experience how smooth those games are now. Then I want you to go play Reach. Go play the mission Tip Of The Spear. Watch what happens when a game at 30 fps has a lot of action on screen it can't handle. I want you to watch just how bad frame rate drops are.

Also, if you're saying the Xbox One exists solely because of Halo CE LAN parties, then you're mistaken my friend.
There's already a thread for this.
There's already a thread for this.
I just saw it... too late
If you're saying that 1080p and 60 frames contributes less to gameplay than splitscreen, then something isn't right. I want you to go play the MCC. I want you to experience how smooth those games are now. Then I want you to go play Reach. Go play the mission Tip Of The Spear. Watch what happens when a game at 30 fps has a lot of action on screen it can't handle. I want you to watch just how bad frame rate drops are.

Also, if you're saying the Xbox One exists solely because of Halo CE LAN parties, then you're mistaken my friend.
Yes, 1080p 60 contributes less to gameplay than splitscreen, As na original Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox one and every version of halo ever released on all these systems I can tell you that.
Besides the resolution/ framerate drop is ONLY necessary WHEN splitting screens. When playing solo the framerate/ resolution can be what is it now XXXp / 60 fps.

Halo CE and Halo 2 were the key to the original Xbox "success". Whitout those it wouldn't sold a fraction of what it sold, and lanpartys where a HUGE selling point. Don't fool yourself, without it MS would have dropped the Xbox for sure.
DSight wrote:
There is two player split screen online for multiplayer.
Not in Halo 5. There is no Split screen at all in Halo 5.
If you're saying that 1080p and 60 frames contributes less to gameplay than splitscreen, then something isn't right. I want you to go play the MCC. I want you to experience how smooth those games are now. Then I want you to go play Reach. Go play the mission Tip Of The Spear. Watch what happens when a game at 30 fps has a lot of action on screen it can't handle. I want you to watch just how bad frame rate drops are.

Also, if you're saying the Xbox One exists solely because of Halo CE LAN parties, then you're mistaken my friend.
Exactly. If anything, Split-screen imposes more technical limitations and demonstrably negatively impacts gameplay. It's also increasingly redundant with the ubiquity of online play (I say this as someone who has used split screen in every Halo to date). The idea the 60fps is purely an aesthetic choice is pretty goofy. 1080p I could take or leave (H2A Campaign still looks great, despite the horizontal scaling), but 60FPS is absolutely essential. Halo feels so much better that way. And for a campaign designed for the 4 player co-op experience, compromising that performance for split-screen would almost certainly create a lot of problems (particularly if you wanted to play with other people online as well). It's a shame, but that's just reality. If they want to increase the scope in certain areas, there are other legacy features that won't play well with it. That's just how it is. They can't do everything.
If you're saying that 1080p and 60 frames contributes less to gameplay than splitscreen, then something isn't right. I want you to go play the MCC. I want you to experience how smooth those games are now. Then I want you to go play Reach. Go play the mission Tip Of The Spear. Watch what happens when a game at 30 fps has a lot of action on screen it can't handle. I want you to watch just how bad frame rate drops are.

Also, if you're saying the Xbox One exists solely because of Halo CE LAN parties, then you're mistaken my friend.
Exactly. If anything, Split-screen imposes more technical limitations and demonstrably negatively impacts gameplay. It's also increasingly redundant with the ubiquity of online play (I say this as someone who has used split screen in every Halo to date). The idea the 60fps is purely an aesthetic choice is pretty goofy. 1080p I could take or leave (H2A Campaign still looks great, despite the horizontal scaling), but 60FPS is absolutely essential. Halo feels so much better that way. And for a campaign designed for the 4 player co-op experience, compromising that performance for split-screen would almost certainly create a lot of problems (particularly if you wanted to play with other people online as well). It's a shame, but that's just reality. If they want to increase the scope in certain areas, there are other legacy features that won't play well with it. That's just how it is. They can't do everything.
Yes they can. Why don't drop the framerate/res ONLY when splitting screen? The Split screen option would have no impact at all when playing alone, just like in EVERY halo game released to the date. Online mp can't replacement to Split screen at all, its entirelly another beast. Its not about just play with your friends, its about play with your friends AND have a beer AND make fun from whoever its loosing... Its VERY diferent.
Another thing is that I don't really care about the campaing don't splitting screen. It would be great if it could but I would be satisfied only with spliting screen on the arena mp.
JEDI DNA wrote:
DSight wrote:
There is two player split screen online for multiplayer.
Not in Halo 5. There is no Split screen at all in Halo 5.
Yes. Yes it does. It has two player split screen for online multiplayer.

https://twitter.com/JoshingtonState/status/545000766969114625
If you're saying that 1080p and 60 frames contributes less to gameplay than splitscreen, then something isn't right. I want you to go play the MCC. I want you to experience how smooth those games are now. Then I want you to go play Reach. Go play the mission Tip Of The Spear. Watch what happens when a game at 30 fps has a lot of action on screen it can't handle. I want you to watch just how bad frame rate drops are.

Also, if you're saying the Xbox One exists solely because of Halo CE LAN parties, then you're mistaken my friend.
excuse me, but i have to sincerely disagree.
and i'll take your argument as a proof.
i want you to play tip of the spear, twice.
the first time, all alone.
the second time, with your best buddy, girlfriend, wife, children, who ever suits you the best.
and then try to tell me, that 60fps does add more to immersion & gameplay than splitscreen with your beloved ones at your side.
JEDI DNA wrote:
If you're saying that 1080p and 60 frames contributes less to gameplay than splitscreen, then something isn't right. I want you to go play the MCC. I want you to experience how smooth those games are now. Then I want you to go play Reach. Go play the mission Tip Of The Spear. Watch what happens when a game at 30 fps has a lot of action on screen it can't handle. I want you to watch just how bad frame rate drops are.

Also, if you're saying the Xbox One exists solely because of Halo CE LAN parties, then you're mistaken my friend.
Exactly. If anything, Split-screen imposes more technical limitations and demonstrably negatively impacts gameplay. It's also increasingly redundant with the ubiquity of online play (I say this as someone who has used split screen in every Halo to date). The idea the 60fps is purely an aesthetic choice is pretty goofy. 1080p I could take or leave (H2A Campaign still looks great, despite the horizontal scaling), but 60FPS is absolutely essential. Halo feels so much better that way. And for a campaign designed for the 4 player co-op experience, compromising that performance for split-screen would almost certainly create a lot of problems (particularly if you wanted to play with other people online as well). It's a shame, but that's just reality. If they want to increase the scope in certain areas, there are other legacy features that won't play well with it. That's just how it is. They can't do everything.
Yes they can. Why don't drop the framerate/res ONLY when splitting screen? The Split screen option would have no impact at all when playing alone, just like in EVERY halo game released to the date. Online mp can't replacement to Split screen at all, its entirelly another beast. Its not about just play with your friends, its about play with your friends AND have a beer AND make fun from whoever its loosing... Its VERY diferent.
Another thing is that I don't really care about the campaing don't splitting screen. It would be great if it could but I would be satisfied only with spliting screen on the arena mp.
Actually, Halo 5 cannot run on 30 FPS. It has been designed and coded to run on 60 FPS, with very little variation. The graphics aren't the biggest reason why, because it all hinges on the underlying simulation. I've had personal experience with lowering the framerate of Halo 4, a game designed to run at 30 FPS, to about 10 FPS or less due to a glitch with Sniper bullets and certain Forge objects. The framerate obviously drops, but that's not the biggest issue. The big issue is that the gameplay also worked at 1/3 the speed. Imagine the entirety of Halo 4 running at 1/3 the speed it normally does. I actually explain why this happens in the following post:
Quote:
I've been scanning through the posts, and I realize that no one really understands that split screen would affect far more than just graphics. This isn't an attack on those people, it's not very obvious, and it requires a lot of digging to understand. Hopefully, I can simplify this for everyone. ;)

Frank O'Connor wrote that "[the lack of split-screen] sucks, but underlying simulation runs at 60fps. Split screen compromised gameplay as well as fidelity." For those of you wondering what "underlying simulation" is, it refers to "the way the game tracks and computes everything from other players to trigger pulls."

Why is this important? Well, Halo has historically used a 30 fps simulation. This means that the game does certain checks during each visual frame that determine player location and velocity, projectile position and velocity, and a variety of other very important stuff. I actually stumbled across a very helpful article that details the potential difference that 6 fps can make here. Yes, I know this is about the original CE, but it details many differences between the PAL Xbox (which uses around 25 fps) and the NTSC Xbox (which uses around 30 fps). Visually, there's not much difference, but the underlying simulation actually differs rather significantly. Now, imagine the difference that 30 fps would make, compared to 60 fps. Mathematically, you would probably be able to fall twice as far, bullets would be half as fast, you would be half as fast, etc.

There are a few solutions to this issue that would keep split screen in: you could take out as much visual noise and lower the resolution until you achieved a consistent 60 fps, but this would really hurt the graphics, more than I think we realize. You could also take the framerate down to 30 fps for split-screeners, but this would also have to take down the framerate for other players in the game to 30 fps. Even if split-screeners were prevented from playing with full-screen players, the underlying simulation would have to be modified to run at 30 fps. This is no small feat, and would probably have to delay the release date of Halo 5 just to insert a second underlying simulation that could run at 30 fps.

The 60 fps simulation may seem unnecessary, but it makes a huge difference in how the game operates, and results in a much smoother performance than a 30 fps simulation. I imagine that the decision to cut split-screen was a very difficult one, and it was likely made with best intentions. Whether or not you agree with their decision is fully up to you guys, but I felt like some more information needed to be given on this issue. Hope this helps!
Halo 5 can support 2-player split screen in the Multiplayer, but that's because the Xbox One can only support two instances of 60 FPS on one screen if the processors aren't overwhelmed with loading new environments. At the moment, it is unable to support more instances of 60 FPS than this. We may see a change later, but lowering the framerate IS NOT a solution for Halo 5. It has come too far in the development cycle for them to completely remake the underlying simulation so that it can run at 30 FPS.
DSight wrote:
JEDI DNA wrote:
DSight wrote:
There is two player split screen online for multiplayer.
Not in Halo 5. There is no Split screen at all in Halo 5.
Yes. Yes it does. It has two player split screen for online multiplayer.

https://twitter.com/JoshingtonState/status/545000766969114625
dude, i don't like to be the one who bursts your bubble, but you should check the date of the tweet.
since then a lot of things have changed.
I Then I want you to go play Reach. Go play the mission Tip Of The Spear. Watch what happens when a game at 30 fps has a lot of action on screen it can't handle. I want you to watch just how bad frame rate drops are.

Uh, if anything having a higher FPS will causes this to happen more. 60 FPS is harder to maintain, meaning more drops in frame rates.
SMOK69KMK wrote:
DSight wrote:
JEDI DNA wrote:
DSight wrote:
There is two player split screen online for multiplayer.
Not in Halo 5. There is no Split screen at all in Halo 5.
Yes. Yes it does. It has two player split screen for online multiplayer.

https://twitter.com/JoshingtonState/status/545000766969114625
dude, i don't like to be the one who bursts your bubble, but you should check the date of the tweet.
since then a lot of things have changed.
If you can find any info that says it will not support online split screen for two players, then be my guest.
1. There is 2 player split-screen across al the multiplayer experiences.
2. They cut Campaign split-screen, not because graphics>gameplay, but because the game uses the fps to procces data. That means, when there is an fps drop, the system fails. An example of this are multikills in Halo 2 A. The game uses the same system. If you are playing that and get a kill, you have 4.5 (it was in Halo 4, not sure if it now has Halo 2 numbers) seconds to get another kill and get a double. The game uses the fps to count that time, so if there is an fps drop, you won't have 4.5 seconds, you will have more. I don't know the problems this may cause to Halo 5's Campaign, but they have to be big to make 343i cut it for the final game.
OP,

We already have quite a lengthy thread discussing this exact topic. Two rather long threads in fact. First one got so long that we had to lock it and start another. Here are the links:

The Official Splitscreen Thread 1.0
The Official Splitscreen Thread 2.0

Secondly, Here are some links to the status of splitscreen in Halo 5
References to split screen from 343