Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

Battle Rifle Tuning for BTB and Warzone

OP l3ackdraft

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https://youtu.be/CGwiGxyEm8c
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not bump.
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I agree 👍
the old br was a beast I miss using it lol
There is nothing random about the spread of the [current] H5BR. It's only vertical which is predictable (aka not random).

Also, you provided a link to an analysis video that was one of the revisionary attempts to retune the H5BR, but not of the final retune.

Here are the videos you should have linked: Second Last Update & Last (Final) Update
eLantern wrote:
There is nothing random about the spread of the H5BR.
Hey man if you check out the link to the YouTube video above and if you read the patch notes of the tuning update clearly before and after are very different. The before update H5 BR had higher bullet magnetization and all three shots of a burst hit if you were red reticle for the most part now there is a inconsistent ridiculous recoil that is very easy to spot in custom games when shooting against a wall comparing hip fire to ads fire. The spray is random you can even test it for yourself and take the word of all the top BTB players and teams that all know that the nerfed updates BR has a crazy recoil making it a random spray. Again YouTube link to a video that gives you full breakdown and proof.
l3ackdraft wrote:
eLantern wrote:
There is nothing random about the spread of the H5BR.
Hey man if you check out the link to the YouTube video above and if you read the patch notes of the tuning update clearly before and after are very different. The before update H5 BR had higher bullet magnetization and all three shots of a burst hit if you were red reticle for the most part now there is a inconsistent ridiculous recoil that is very easy to spot in custom games when shooting against a wall comparing hip fire to ads fire. The spray is random you can even test it for yourself and take the word of all the top BTB players and teams that all know that the nerfed updates BR has a crazy recoil making it a random spray. Again YouTube link to a video that gives you full breakdown and proof.
See my edited response above.
I truly suggest that everyone check out and link and tweet that video to unyshek it’s from the the YouTube channel “Aozolai” and the video name is “Halo 5 Nerfed BR (weapon tuning/analysis)” it perfectly describes the problems with the current BR and show video proof of mumtiple examples on how broken it is in general let alone for BTB’s primary weapon.
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l3ackdraft wrote:
I truly suggest that everyone check out and link and tweet that video to unyshek it’s from the the YouTube channel “Aozolai” and the video name is “Halo 5 Nerfed BR (weapon tuning/analysis)” it perfectly describes the problems with the current BR and show video proof of mumtiple examples on how broken it is in general let alone for BTB’s primary weapon.
Don't provide people misinformation regarding the current state of the H5BR and then tell them to use that bad info to try swaying 343i for further change. I provided you with Aozolai's last two analysis videos of the H5BR. Those are what you should be going by.

Here is a breakdown of the current H5BR in relation to the pre-tuned H5BR:

  • The final post-tuned H5BR does not suffer from random spread which is similar to its pre-tuned state. This allows it's bullet spread to be predictable which improves its consistency from having to deal with random spread.
  • The crouch mechanic does not reduce the weapon's recoil effect in its post-tuned state like it did in its pre-tuned state. This effectively removed depth that the weapon previously possessed. I think it was a mistake to remove this depth.
  • Its final post-tuned hip-fire recoil effect has however been increased from its pre-tuned state. It limits the weapon's effectiveness beyond its Red-Reticle-Ranges (RRRs). The old recoil amount wasn't nearly as sufficient at doing so.
  • Its final post-tuned ADS recoil effect has also been increased from its pre-tuned state when equipping the Recon, Classic, Hybrid, or Morph sight. Again, designed to limit its effectiveness at distances beyond its RRR which, in turn, improves map traversing. I personally believe the weapon should be consistent across all sights/scopes, but this gets into another type of discussion.
  • Its final post-tuned hip-fire RRR was reduced from 12 world units in its pre-tuned state to 10 world units. It was a grave mistake to reduce its hip-fire reliable range. Doing so gave it no real niche area of strength. In turn, it lacks a purposeful role in comparison to the other precision options.
  • Its final post-tuned [Recon] ADS RRR was reduced from 25 world units in its pre-tuned state to 20 world units. This was meant to reduce its max effective range.
  • Its final post-tuned zoom and draw speeds were increased from its pre-tuned state making the weapon snapper. This was done to make it more viable as a primary loadout weapon.
  • Its final post-tuned [Recon] sight was moved closer to the HUD verses in its pre-tuned state. This was done to reduce visual obstructions.
  • Its final post-tuned bullet damage output was increased in a very minor fashion in comparison to its pre-tuned state in order to ensure it could achieve 6 bullet (2 trigger pulls at minimum) + melee kills without really altering any of its other bullets-to-kill requirements; though, it may have also helped improve its Sub-Optimal TTK, but I'm not 100% sure about that.
  • Its final post-tuned cadence for the 3-shot burst was spaced out more in comparison to its pre-tuned state which was so tight that it acted in similar fashion to a single shot weapon. This increased its inconsistency, but made it more similar to past Halo BRs.
  • Its final post-tuned Optimal TTK was made slower than its pre-tuned state; in fact, it was made to match that of the [Legendary] H2BR. This directly reduced its lethality.
  • Its final post-tuned reticle magnetism (aka sticky aim) was modified slightly from its pre-tuned state. This was done to make it more difficult (read: skillful) to use at close range with the 6 bullet + melee kill ability.
  • The final post-tuned head and body bullet magnetism was increased from its pre-tuned state. This was done to ensure that the BR remained reliable within its RRRs given the increased recoil.
This subject has been brought up in the past but I enjoy the detail in explanation by I3ackdraft. Basically the H5 BR was tossed in the trash because of attempting BR in 4's and it was too OP. But instead of creating a new variant (I mean come on look at all the variant BR's we can choose from in WZ)... they killed the H5 BR for all game types. If they simply created a free card and called it "Test BR" or whatever. They could have used that particular variant to properly test 4's in a live Beta meanwhile keeping other gametypes that people were satisfied in tact.
OG Sandbox - Once pistol registration was fixed and dead zone allowed for player control the sandbox was a top 5 accomplishment of Halo5. True there were BTB adjustments. I mean the Warthogs and Gausshogs were paper at the beginning but once the upgraded hogs rolled in it was fine.

OT update - In a potentially nostalgia driven move the whipped maneuver to get BR starts in 4's really changes everything. It changed it in 4's but the changes were felt much
worse in BTB and WZ. The BR was complete trash and simply unusable. BTB community got hit hard with many Companies ditching Halo 5 all together for other games. Especially the more competitive BTB companies. The strangest part in this whole cluster eff was the fact the pro and competitive community successfully killed this experiment so they reset HCS and 4's but then left the disaster BR/Carbine etc in for the communities where it had an even more dramatic negative impact.

Next update - BR improves but only very slightly. Still never utilized in WZ until H2 BR card pops and BTB players sprinted to the nearest Light Rifle or Pistol.

Most current update - BR is at least functional albeit still inconsistent. It feels a little closer to a serviceable BR for 4's but still no one in their right mind ditches a pistol for it. For BTB its range seems too niche. Don't get me wrong the maps have a lot to do with it too. Like this BR feels more tasty on maps like Traffic Jam because a lot of the fights put you in its hottest range and can provide more consistency for accurate shooters. But using this sucker on Viking and Dispelled reminds you real quick it still needs some work.

The one thing I will commend 343 for standing firm on the functionality of the Pistol. There was a crazy cry for nerfing the H5 pistol because it seemed OP compared to the nerf city special on all the other precision weapons. That was a very misguided complaint by our community. Thank the stars above they never caved on that. While some may not love Pistol starts in 4's few can debate the Halo 5 pistol is one of the best competitive precision weapons in Halo History. If you lose a fight its because 99% of the time you got outplayed. Losing to skill is WAY more digestible than losing to RNG sprays and weapon inconsistency. So I do need to recognize this. Because if they nerfed the Pistol to try and cover for the other broken weapons it would have completely destroyed H5 as we know it and crushed its identity in the MP community. In conclusion most in the BTB community and the entire company I am in still want a better BR.
Simple fix - increase the effective range and reduce the recoil. BAM improvement made. And while they are at it, can we get a BTB map refresh? Recycle old maps?
Definitely agree here!
I've long been on record saying that the Halo 5 Sandbox requires at least one final re-tuning effort with the H5BR at its crux. The default Recon H5BR has been tuned to the point where it's pretty much completely overshadowed by the utility standard Magnum within the arena environment. Removing one of the advantages the Magnum has over the BR while boosting the BRs primary advantage is why I've constantly advocated for the Long-Barrel Recon H5BR to replace it within the arena environment as a simple fix. The Magnum would still retain advantages over the BR in its optimal TTK, consistency (primarily outside RRR), and ability to maintain comfortable reserve ammunition when its featured as the utility weapon. If they hadn’t nerfed the BR's hip-fire RRR I don't think it'd be in nearly as bad of a state as it currently is which, again, is why it makes sense to use the Long-Barrel attachment as a simple fix in light of no further sandbox tuning. Pairing the BR’s old hip-fire RRR and most of its old ADS RRR, which is made possible with the Long-Barrel attachment, to its’ retuned recoil (increased), burst cadence (slower), TTKs (slower), snappiness (quicker), and tweaked aim assistance (slightly adjusted) gives it a much more appropriate role and fit amongst the weapons often used and found within the arena environment.

Magnums:
  • Has a decent amount of reticle and bullet magnetism throughout its RRRs. It requires 3 shots + a melee for a kill. A very effective and appropriate utility weapon. I'd argue that the standard & tactical Magnums could use some minor RRR reductions. The standard Magnum's ADS RRR should be reduced to 54.9 meters (18 world units) and the hip-fire RRR to 33.5 meters (11 world units). The tactical Magnum's ADS RRR should be reduced to 62.5 meters (20.5 world units) and the hip-fire RRR to 33.5 meters (11 world units). Everything else should stay pretty much the same between those two weapons.

    CURRENT STATS:

    [Standard] Hip-Fire RRR = 36.6 meters or 12 world units | [Tactical] Hip-Fire RRR = 36.6 meters or 12 world units

    [Standard] ADS RRR = 58 meters or 19 world units | [Tactical] ADS RRR = 69.5 meters or 22.8 world units

    Optimal TTK (headshot) = 1.3 seconds (5 bullets)

    Sub-optimal TTK (no headshot) = 1.9 seconds (7 bullets)

H5BR:
  • Remember that the H5BR was specifically tuned to become the arena environment's primary loadout weapon, but it obviously did not catch-on due in great part to the unpopularity of its nerfing. Nevertheless, the changes have proven to be fairly beneficial to the BTB playlist, where the re-tuned Recon H5BR is the default loadout weapon, because it allows for better map movement/traversing since it doesn't act like the cross-map laser it used to be. The current H5BR still possesses a decent amount of reticle and bullet magnetism throughout its RRRs after some minor adjustments. Damage wise, it very much mimics the classic BRs just as it also only requires 6 bullets (2 trigger pulls at min) + a melee for a kill.

    The following are the tuning changes I'd personally like to see made to the H5BR in order to make it a more effective weapon while giving it a more defined role, but it's highly unlikely to occur. The hip-fire RRR should be returned to its previous 36.6 meters (12 world units) while its ADS RRR could be left in its new state. I'd like to see the crouch mechanic once again have an effect on the weapon's recoil amounts as it would provide further depth to the weapon. Hip-firing while standing should equal the current standing hip-fire recoil, hip-firing while crouching should be given slightly less recoil, ADSing while standing even less recoil though fairly similar to the current ADS recoil for shorter range sights, and finally ADSing while crouch-firing being approximately zero recoil which would be similar to the current ADS recoil seen in the high magnification scopes. To reduce any potential visual discomfort when ADSing and firing while standing with the COG, Longshot, or Sentinel scopes (since they possess high magnifications) they should simply lessen the visual view-kick a bit without actually creating a special performance differential between the long range and shorter range scopes/sights. I understand why they made the performance differences, but I still think it was a mistake not to make the BR's performance consistent across all of the sight attachments. Beyond those changes I'd like to see the BR's reticle magnetism reduced a tiny bit more at close ranges, but not nearly as drastic as the DMR.

    CURRENT STATS:

    Hip-Fire RRR = 30.5 meters or 10 world units | Long-Barrel Hip-Fire RRR = 36.6 meters or 12 world units

    [Recon] ADS RRR = 61.1 meters or 20 world units | Long-Barrel [Recon] ADS RRR = 73.1 meters or 24 world units

    Optimal TTK = 1.4 seconds (11 bullets or 4 trigger pulls)

    Sub-optimal TTK = 1.9 seconds (16 bullets or 6 trigger pulls)
I would add the SMG and Gunfighter Magnum as two other weapons that could certainly use some further modifications if Halo 5's sandbox were to ever receive another tuning effort which is unlikely. I also wouldn't mind seeing the AR be given a little more depth via the crouch mechanic; though, it'd be very minor as it's in a pretty appropriate state right now. Heck, the sandbox in general is in a fairly good spot right now even if there are some minor REQ cost changes I'd support too.
Anion wrote:
The problem with making the BR a laser again is that it stagnates gameplay on certain maps (Deadlock especially) and makes the DMR and Lightrifle redundant in the weapon sandbox (which I think was one of the catalysts for the weapon tuning).

If you want to get rid of less talented players winning fights you should be arguing for the removal/limitation of vehicles.

I believe your post would have more clout if you weren't all in the same company.
You misunderstand, we don't want the BR to be a laser. We just want it to be consistent. As mentioned above, if you leave the aim assist distance the same, but make the shots more consistent it will not be a laser. Maps like Deadlock are stagnant anyways with the Hydra, Plasma Pistol, and Carbine on the map.
Hahaha yeah there's a reason it's called "Standoff" and "Deadlock" @hidden klmm
Halo logic : 500 hundred years in the future and super soliders can’t control gun recoil and humans make their weapons worst
Quoting you from your private message to me...
l3ackdraft wrote:
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Dude. Really? This is how you communicate toward people you disagree with?

Also, my stats have no bearing on the value of what I'm discussing or my perspective; especially so in the cases where I'm simply sharing facts.

Add to this, the comment above, where you said...
l3ackdraft wrote:
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By the way, despite having never bragged about my stats or records for the BTB playlist, or any other playlist for that matter, because I know I'm not a Pro level talent (so what's the point in referencing it) allow me to at least provide you with a little more context of my BTB record than what you managed to glimpsed from my recent game history (not that it matters). Also, take note that I don't play BTB with my Spartan Company and rarely with anyone other than myself or maybe one other friend (aka I'm primarily a solo or two-some searcher).

  • BIG TEAM STRONGHOLDS:
K/D: 1.13
K/G: 12.98
Win%: 51.8%

  • BIG TEAM SLAYER
K/D: 1.32
K/G: 11.94
Win%: 59.1%

  • BIG TEAM CTF
K/D: 1.28
K/G: 16.18
Win% 52.7%

  • BIG TEAM ASSAULT
K/D: 1.66
K/G: 22.20
Win%: 20.0%
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other members. This includes stat-flaming.
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dopesolja wrote:
eLantern wrote:
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Embarrassing stats.
Probably. And so what? Even if I had a negative K/D, K/G below 10, or a win percentage below 50%... it would have zero bearing on what I've communicated.

These kinds of responses is an excellent example of the toxicity, and elitism, that plague aspects of the Halo community.
Are we gonna start comparing stats now or actually stick to the topic? I may not have good stats but all I want is the original BR back please!

I do agree that majority of players want the original BR back. I'm sure most of us are very uncomfortable with the recoil and the slightly reduced rate of fire. I truly believe that the BR deserves to be better than the magnum at least because what would be the point if the magnum is way better than the BR. I highly doubt 343 is ever gonna bring back the original BR, and this is the result of their logic.

And before anyone else starts crying about the BR being OP, its a skilled weapon. Learn to aim and be better at it.

Rant over...
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