Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

Battle Rifle Tuning for BTB and Warzone

OP l3ackdraft

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eLantern wrote:
Thank you and yes... for the most part. To clarify, there is actually two separate bullet magnetisms in effect on top of the reticle magnetism that is best described as "sticky aim". The two different bullet magnetisms are in reference to two different hitboxes -- the head and the rest of the body. Now these bullet magnetisms don't directly reduce the weapon's bullet spread (which relates to its recoil), but they do indirectly influence that spread by bending the bullets onto the target.
Yeah, I think most of us understand that.

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I was merely describing how aiming for center mass becomes the most effective method to land a full burst outside of RRR. And I acknowledged the frustrations this can seemly cause, but also pointed out how it manages to create what I perceive as a benefit to the mode's experience.
That doesn't really benefit the whole mode as it's only one weapon. It basically gives you a disadvantage when you first spawn, until you can grab a better weapon. So I'd say that negatively affects freedom to traverse the map.

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Generally speaking, I agree with what you're saying which is why I'd like to point out that aiming center mass with the intent of landing the second or third bullet within a burst into the head is still a form of skillful aiming under the understanding of what's required to land a full burst and achieve a headshot when outside RRR. This isn't terribly different than understanding you have to lead your shots in a projectile-based FPS when firing at longer ranges. With the current H5BR, if an opponent's shields are broken and all that's needed for the kill is a headshot then aiming for the head will still make the most sense because that first bullet will travel where your reticle is pointed -- given that you've got a solid connection to the server.

In terms of hip-fire RRR they are tied as both have a hip-fire RRR of 30.5 meters or 10 world units. Having the same hip-fire RRR was what I was referring to when I said they were tied. I was not suggesting that their lethality was equal within that range. By the way, the Carbine has a hip-fire RRR of 32 meters or 10.5 world units.
Oh okay I see what you mean now.

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  • The H5BR has an Optimal TTK of ~1.4 seconds (11 bullets or 4 trigger pulls w/ headshot) and a Sub-Optimal TTK of ~1.9 seconds (16 bullets or 6 trigger pulls to the body).
  • The Light Rifle has an Optimal [Hip-Fire] TTK of ~1.2 seconds (4 shots w/ headshot), an Optimal [ADS] TTK of ~1.1 seconds (3 shots w/ headshot), a Sub-Optimal [Hip-Fire] TTK of ~1.6 seconds (5 body shots), and a Sub-Optimal [ADS] TTK of ~1.6 seconds (4 body shots).
  • The Carbine has an Optimal TTK of ~1.2 seconds (7 shots w/ headshot) and a Sub-Optimal TTK of ~1.9 seconds (10 body shots).
Clearly, the Light Rifle and Carbine are more deadly (aka lethal) weapons within the basic H5BR's hip-fire range. This is a reason why I believe the H5BR should be given a better hip-fire range then these "other" two precision weapons and why I advocate for the Long-Barrel H5BR. There would be a range where it received all three types of aim assistance (reticle, body, and head magnetisms) and these other two precision weapons would not. Players would need to understand where this weapon's strength was and actively manage to engage these "other" precision weapons within it's ideal range when facing them.
I mean yeah ideal TTK stats are nice but you have to test them out in real fights and try different stuff to see how those stats really apply. I just don't think that RRR is the fix we need in BTB man.

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I'm a little confused by what you're asking me here. I'll just say that the pre-tuned BR was a cross-map laser which felt good to use, but it negatively impacted the Big Team experience. The final post-tuned BR feels pretty crappy and it gets overshadowed by pretty much every "other" precision weapon, but in my opinion it has led to an improved BTB experience.
So you agree that it's overshadowed. Maybe in your experience it's been better, but that could be because the skill gap was narrowed.

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There are a finite amount of Carbines, Light Rifles, DMRs, or H2BRs on these maps and they have to be actively sought out just like the power weapons. This restricts and limits their uses where as everyone automatically spawns with the H5BR. Is it possible that a team could take control of all these items and use them to suppress the opposing team into a spawn trap? Sure, but it would require plenty of coordination and skill to do so given the two opposing teams equate out to having fairly similar overall skill.
Actually on most maps these weapons respawn 30s or 60s after the weapon has been picked up. They do not have to despawn. The number of these weapons allowed is infinite.

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Again, I agree that the basic H5BR isn't ideal which is why I've been actively advocating for the Long-Barrel variant, but I still think there's a benefit to the Big Team experience by having the standard loadout weapon lose a decent amount of its effectiveness beyond the extended ranges afforded to the Long-Barrel variant. Thus leading to less stalemate like standoffs with long-sight line coverage which encourages more map movement; especially, along a map’s boundaries.
I mean this is where we understand each other but we just flat out disagree. The current BR is too much of a handicap when you're being prefired by Carbines or Light Rifles.

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I'm sure it has made shooting those within vehicles harder, but that can also be seen from the flip-side as potentially a good thing. When you say that farming has gotten worse I take it that you mean it happens more often now, correct? I would say it's debatable that it's solely because of the retuned H5BR. I'd even argue that it has more to do with normal progression relating to population loss in a title that's ~3 years old. They're constantly tinkering with the matchmaking parameters to ensure search times don't get too ridiculous.
I didn't say that it's solely beacuse of the retuned BR. Yes the population is declining, but that's not the time to restrict people from playing against each other. My team literally can't find a match and will sit in the search for over an hour if we play on our mains with a full team.

Also, it's really not a good thing for vehicles to become even more overpowered. When players have mastered vehicles they are pretty much unstoppable, and you need to be able to spawn and immediately land a shot on a hog gunner or ghost driver to suppress them if you don't want to be spawn killed the entire game. Trust me you'd rather have the H5BR if I'm driving and my boy Heavies is on the turret. We don't really farm at least though.

I kinda like the Long Barrel but the fact that it solely improves RRR doesn't do anything for high level BTB gameplay. Long range firefights take a lot of skill without aim assist, and the BR needs to be able to at least defend itself against a Carbine/Light Rifle, even if it's still at a slight disadvantage.

To revitalize BTB we need the pros and semi-pros to search the playlist and enjoy it. A lot of them have said that they hate the new BR and they would actually search BTB again for fun if the Stabilization was added. Look on Twitter.
I'm in for br with stabilization jets!
I have all but quit playing Halo 5 after the BR update completely ruined it I spent years mastering it and then they changed it way to deep in the life cycle of the game I can understand changing it for arena but it totally destroyed Warzone Warzone assault and big Team Battle.
I have all but quit playing Halo 5 after the BR update completely ruined it I spent years mastering it and then they changed it way to deep in the life cycle of the game I can understand changing it for arena but it totally destroyed Warzone Warzone assault and big Team Battle.
August 2017 - RIP Halo 5 Battle Rifle
dopesolja wrote:
The only advantage of the Long Barrel is RRR. This advantage does not address any of the issues I broke down. A massive portion of BTB game-play takes place outside RRR.
The Long-Barrel variant, in part, addresses some of the issues you’ve broken down while also providing the weapon an actual niche area of strength over other precision weapons, but it certainly doesn’t fulfill the primary aspect that you and your cohorts are seeking. The short RRRs of the default H5BR lends itself to ensuring most Big Team game-play, regardless to play level, will take place outside RRR which again goes back to why I advocate for the Long-Barrel variant which extends the reticle ranges.
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Halo has evolved ... It's about the movement and gun-play, not the spread and recoil patterns.
Yes, it has evolved. I think Halo 5 has taken the franchise to a really good place with its movement mechanics as well as its gun-play in that it has removed most of the randomness from its precision weapons. I personally hope Infinite builds on what H5 has provided as a foundation.
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The current state of the H5BR has a negative effect on map movement. When you spawn you need a fair chance to fight your way out of a spawn trap. You can't fairly keep up with the real precision weapons or fight a Gauss Hog with the vertical bullet spread of this BR.
I agree that the default H5BR is not ideal, but I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree about the role of its recoil having a positive or negative affect on mobility freedom. I hear what you’re saying about wanting a BR that’s easier to use at long ranges and I don’t fully disagree w/ you. This is why I also advocate for Stabilization Jets as another possible replacement to the default H5BR, but I and others have concerns which is why we prefer the Long-Barrel variant.
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Pistols would be better than the current BR.
I’ve been a part of several Big Team map tests with Standard Magnums and I’ve always thought it played fairly well, but I really love the tradition that was created in H2 and H3 then repeated here in H5 of using the BR as the Big Team environment's primary loadout choice. This is despite the fact that its design hasn't been ideal (pre-tune or post-tune). I just find it to be iconic within this particular mode.
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They (343i) were focusing on the current H5BR changes for HCS. When that fell through, they didn't truly fix the problem or seriously consider the effects that it had on BTB. Given our limited options the Stabilization Jets BR makes the most sense [to me].
The tuning update focused on several aspects. One of which was to modify the H5BR so that it might become a viable primary loadout option within 4v4 maps. I believe the final changes have made it a better primary loadout option in general, but they went too far in removing any discernible advantages it may have had over other precision weapons. In other words, it’s been left in a state where it’s overshadowed and kind of pointless.

I get that the Stabilization Jets variant makes the most sense to you and your cohorts because it allows it to be more competitive at the distances outside its RRRs, but it still doesn’t really give it any discernible niche where it has an advantage worth using it for. The Long-Barrel does this, but it also restricts its effectiveness at distances outside of its RRRs which I (and others) feel is better for all of the Arena Environments including BTB.
dopesolja wrote:
[Recoil] doesn't really benefit the whole mode as it's only one weapon. It basically gives you a disadvantage when you first spawn until you can grab a better weapon. So I'd say that negatively affects freedom to traverse the map.
The primary loadout weapon will always be a critically important one. The BR’s recoil simply limits its cross-map effectiveness which means most players will inherently have more freedom to move about the map. And it incentives active searches for other weaponry for potential cross-map firing purposes.
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...ideal TTK stats are nice, but you have to test them out in real fights ... to see how those stats really apply. I just don't think that RRR is the fix we need in BTB.
Fair enough. We're entitled to our opinions, so we'll have to agree to disagree here too.
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Maybe in your experience it (the BTB mode) has been better, but that could be because the skill-gap was narrowed.
It's not just my opinion that is suggesting the Big Team experience got better by restricting the H5BR's effectiveness beyond RRRs. I've heard ExO Delta Gaming members saying as much as well as other general players. Nobody is saying the default H5BR is ideal. Saying the skill-gap has narrowed is subjective; in fact, it could be argued that it got wider.
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[General pick-up] weapons respawn [every] 30s or 60s ... They do not have to despawn. The number of these weapons allowed is infinite.
True, but my point was that, generally speaking, they have to be actively sought out. And often continuously due to having somewhat limited reserve ammunition. It's not as if everyone will automatically have a cross-map capable precision weapon since they're not the loadout option.
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I mean this is where we understand each other, but we just flat out disagree. The [recoil] is too much of a handicap when you're being fired on by Carbines or Light Rifles.
Yes. We continue our amenable agreement to disagree.
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The population is declining, but [now] is not the time to restrict people from playing against each other. My team literally can't find a match and will sit in the search for over an hour if we play on our mains with a full team.
Matchmaking has a 60:40 odds restriction rule that will bend a little beyond those odds for truly high level players. This bending is done by treating all MMR players above a certain limit (I think its 1800, but it might have gotten reduced) as being at that limit. The matchmaker, generally speaking, doesn't want to create matches that are going to be completely unfair. The primary method used to loosen the matchmaker (to help high level players find matches) is to widen the allowable skill differential between top players to lower level players during a search. This means that really good players can get paired with quite low level players in an attempt to create an average skill between the two that'll match-make to other available players.

All of this together simply means that highly skilled players often can't match-make in a full team or if they do they won't likely find a match until another full team of highly skilled players are searching at the exact same time. This is where using social media or other such methods to try coordinating a match with another fairly equal opposing team becomes required. The Halo Discord Server, Halo Xbox Clubs, Twitter, Forums, etc are all likely your best tools to foster high-level full-team matches.
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It's really not a good thing for vehicles to become even more overpowered. When players have mastered vehicles they are pretty much unstoppable.
I hear ya. It's certainly a valid argument.
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Long range firefights take a lot of skill without aim assist and the BR needs to be able to at least defend itself against [other precisions] even if it's still at a slight disadvantage. To revitalize BTB we need [players] to search the playlist and enjoy it. A lot of [people] hate the new BR.
Fair points and I somewhat agree. And getting more people playing again is the best remedy for BTB. I support a change, but still feel that the Long-Barrel variant is the ideal choice. But either change is welcomed.
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Original BR or Stabilization BR - Either of these choices would be a positive addition to BTB! Win/Win in my book. 👍
I think H2BR is the answer
I am here for change. I might not agree with most of yous or we have our disagreements. I am 100% for what the community wants. I quit playing because of the br. I know several people who have. If its a change to somehow fix the the problem, lets goooo. Dont stat check me.
H2br would be lit though to! haha
The BR changes happened right after a lot of my friends switched to BTB and after that they all quit playing so I did too for 7 or 8 months. I started playing again recently but not BTB, I don't pick up the BR in arena like I used to, and all of us stick with the pistol in warzone until we hit level 5 and then we switch to the H2 BR and/or BR with stabilization jets.
Big team battle died when it wasn’t ranked anymore, with that being said halo 2 battle rifle or pistol starts are the 2 best choices. 3rd choice is the long barrel br.
As a frequent BTB player i think the BR needs a tune for BTB only!
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Karnivool wrote:
Original BR or Stabilization BR - Either of these choices would be a positive addition to BTB! Win/Win in my book. 👍
Sounds great! I love the stabilization BR idea
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Yeah hide behind your main account tool basket.

What I think both sides are really overlooking is how hot the stacks of Cornbread are on Cornbreadmans' account.
This should also affect how the BR is used(rather not used) in competitive play now. The BR used to be a weapon pickup advantage. I dont think any competitive player would even touch the BR as it is now if it was still in arena play.
This should also affect how the BR is used(rather not used) in competitive play now. The BR used to be a weapon pickup advantage. I dont think any competitive player would even touch the BR as it is now if it was still in arena play.
Worth mentioning that the default H5BR is a map pick-up on most, if not all, HCS maps. Pro players will occasionally pick it up; however, I believe the primary reasons they grab it are (1) to use it as an animation cancel via the Y button and (2) as an emergency option. It doesn't really serve much purpose beyond those two things, but this is just another reason why I advocate for the Long-Barrel H5BR variant to replace the default H5BR throughout all of the Arena Environment.
This should also affect how the BR is used(rather not used) in competitive play now. The BR used to be a weapon pickup advantage. I dont think any competitive player would even touch the BR as it is now if it was still in arena play.
I would like to eventually see the BR takes its rightful place as the main weapon again. Doubtful to see in H5 now, but maybe infinite. Not sure I can take another game if the pistol is the main.
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