Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

Been away from Arena, what happened to the balance

OP The Kerminater

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I haven't been consistently playing Halo 5 for the past year or two. Arena had some pretty spot-on balancing until I got back into it recently.

When did they essentially remove all power weapons and make the magnum so dominant?

For god's sake Empire literally has no power weapons. It has an overshield and a suppressed AR. And the magnum seems easier to use now, to the point that it's like Reach again where the AR kills so slowly in comparison that it's completely overshadowed by your literal sidearm.

Seems like they decided to go the "pro" route and remove a lot of the variety/interest/fun the name of "competitive balance" that involves a meta that applies to less than 1% of players. But you gotta keep those pro streamers happy. I missed when video games were balanced with the actual bulk of the player base in mind instead of going "oh they're just noobs, they won't notice".
Somewhere along the line, there was a whole lot of Anti-automatic weapon negativity going around because getting kills with automatics took "no skill", so most of those got removed a couple years ago. Arena now is a pretty neutered experience where about 99% of gunfights is magnum vs. magnum.
Somewhere along the line, there was a whole lot of Anti-automatic weapon negativity going around because getting kills with automatics took "no skill", so most of those got removed a couple years ago. Arena now is a pretty neutered experience where about 99% of gunfights is magnum vs. magnum.
Yeah those toxic players have been saying the same thing since the beginning of time. Don't know why they keep being listened to. Neither Bungie nor 343 had the spine to stand up to them it seems.
Yeah H5 is a pistolfest but it's the main utility weapon...kinda like the BR used to be. They never got the H5BR right IMO. It never felt good to use, always felt like a nail gun to me and not a good burst fired rifle. The AR in H5 can be quite effective in close ranges. But you have to burst fire it and aim for the head...and try to zoom in if you can.
I just checked theater and WTF it's literally 20 rounds to kill someone with an AR now?! That's one more than even the Reach AR had and this game is way faster-paced!

God, it makes me furious when devs do stuff like this. Stop intentionally breaking your own game balance to appease irrational complaints.
LethalQ wrote:
The AR in H5 can be quite effective in close ranges. But you have to burst fire it and aim for the head...and try to zoom in if you can.
See, no.

Bursting only takes its excessive kill time and makes it even longer, and aiming for the head is just not something to be done intentionally with an automatic, especially at close range.

Most of the time, it ends up being what it used to be in 3 and Reach: a melee assister. The only effective way to use it is to run straight at an enemy and shoot only as much as it takes to melee kill them. Trying to actually gunfight with it is only going to get you popped by a magnum.

I miss the way it was in the beta. Zooming took away bloom and added recoil, and it became a significantly deeper and more satisfying gun to use. Magnum also had recoil but it was faster shooting, so skilled players could beat an AR at mid instead of just anyone who happened to shoot first. But oh no, recoil mechanics are "like CoD" and it's just a travesty any time Halo innovates and evolves.
I haven't been consistently playing Halo 5 for the past year or two. Arena had some pretty spot-on balancing until I got back into it recently.

When did they essentially remove all power weapons and make the magnum so dominant?

The magnum hasn't changed, though you might not be able to tell because you've been gone for a while. Nerfing other weapons has made the magnum so dominant.
For god's sake Empire literally has no power weapons. It has an overshield and a suppressed AR. And the magnum seems easier to use now, to the point that it's like Reach again where the AR kills so slowly in comparison that it's completely overshadowed by your literal sidearm.

For a small map like Empire having a power weapon on top of two power ups would be unbalanced. Not to mention in Team Arena it has the plasma pistol which technically is a power weapon. If you aim for the head with the AR the TTK is actually quicker now than it was at release. The only way the magnum can defeat the AR at close range is if the player wielding the magnum misses a shot.
Seems like they decided to go the "pro" route and remove a lot of the variety/interest/fun the name of "competitive balance" that involves a meta that applies to less than 1% of players. But you gotta keep those pro streamers happy. I missed when video games were balanced with the actual bulk of the player base in mind instead of going "oh they're just noobs, they won't notice".
So, you admit taking away the AR adds more skill? There is literally only one playlist in the entire game without the AR why are you complaining?
Seems like they decided to go the "pro" route and remove a lot of the variety/interest/fun the name of "competitive balance" that involves a meta that applies to less than 1% of players. But you gotta keep those pro streamers happy. I missed when video games were balanced with the actual bulk of the player base in mind instead of going "oh they're just noobs, they won't notice".
So, you admit taking away the AR adds more skill? There is literally only one playlist in the entire game without the AR why are you complaining?
Uhh, no?

It used to be skillful back when it was a 13 round kill with less aim assist. There's nothing "unskillful" about a gun that's less likely to get you a kill. Don't know why that logic is so hard for some people.

The meta they're pandering to is all about a bunch of dudebros flexing their e-pecs and seeing who's a better shot with one individual precision weapon that everyone is using, rather than a varied and dynamic battlefield. If anyone isn't on 100% equal grounds with their firefight they get mad and complain that whatever they got killed with takes no skill.

"Oh there's only one playlist without an AR so why are you complaining?" ...seriously? Yeah, let me just hop into BTB and run an AR. Or hop into Ranked Slayer and see how negative it gets me. It's not enough to just give me an AR if it doesn't actually work. This isn't a game where you can use any weapon based on preference. There's got to be a gameplay niche to fill in order for a weapon to bother being used. So if I never have a reason to use it and it never fires a single round, it might as well not exist in the loadout.
LethalQ wrote:
The AR in H5 can be quite effective in close ranges. But you have to burst fire it and aim for the head...and try to zoom in if you can.
See, no.

Bursting only takes its excessive kill time and makes it even longer, and aiming for the head is just not something to be done intentionally with an automatic, especially at close range.

Most of the time, it ends up being what it used to be in 3 and Reach: a melee assister. The only effective way to use it is to run straight at an enemy and shoot only as much as it takes to melee kill them. Trying to actually gunfight with it is only going to get you popped by a magnum.

I miss the way it was in the beta. Zooming took away bloom and added recoil, and it became a significantly deeper and more satisfying gun to use. Magnum also had recoil but it was faster shooting, so skilled players could beat an AR at mid instead of just anyone who happened to shoot first. But oh no, recoil mechanics are "like CoD" and it's just a travesty any time Halo innovates and evolves.
See...yes... You can get head shot multipliers with the AR so the TTK can be short. The SMG is what our want if you just want to spray them down with bullets. The H5 AR has been the best AR ever in Halo if used correctly.
LethalQ wrote:
LethalQ wrote:
The AR in H5 can be quite effective in close ranges. But you have to burst fire it and aim for the head...and try to zoom in if you can.
See, no.

Bursting only takes its excessive kill time and makes it even longer, and aiming for the head is just not something to be done intentionally with an automatic, especially at close range.

Most of the time, it ends up being what it used to be in 3 and Reach: a melee assister. The only effective way to use it is to run straight at an enemy and shoot only as much as it takes to melee kill them. Trying to actually gunfight with it is only going to get you popped by a magnum.

I miss the way it was in the beta. Zooming took away bloom and added recoil, and it became a significantly deeper and more satisfying gun to use. Magnum also had recoil but it was faster shooting, so skilled players could beat an AR at mid instead of just anyone who happened to shoot first. But oh no, recoil mechanics are "like CoD" and it's just a travesty any time Halo innovates and evolves.
See...yes... You can get head shot multipliers with the AR so the TTK can be short. The SMG is what our want if you just want to spray them down with bullets. The H5 AR has been the best AR ever in Halo if used correctly.
It USED to be the best Halo AR ever, until whatever update made it literally 20 rounds to kill. The mid years of this game had the balance nailed down, and then the community died and got taken over by the sweaties who only like one specific style of gameplay and know that if they mass-complain they can manipulate the devs into changing the game. This ain't my first rodeo, it's not the first nor last time I'll see it happen to a game.

Headshotting with the AR is something you can only do once their shields are popped and it requires you to let off the trigger if you want to actually go for them instead of leaving it up to chance. There's no two ways around it. It's going to be a slower effective kill than the magnum in actual, real gameplay rather than best case scenarios.

Also, the SMG has been nerfed too. It's got essentially the same kill time as the AR which is puzzling to me.
LethalQ wrote:
LethalQ wrote:
The AR in H5 can be quite effective in close ranges. But you have to burst fire it and aim for the head...and try to zoom in if you can.
See, no.

Bursting only takes its excessive kill time and makes it even longer, and aiming for the head is just not something to be done intentionally with an automatic, especially at close range.

Most of the time, it ends up being what it used to be in 3 and Reach: a melee assister. The only effective way to use it is to run straight at an enemy and shoot only as much as it takes to melee kill them. Trying to actually gunfight with it is only going to get you popped by a magnum.

I miss the way it was in the beta. Zooming took away bloom and added recoil, and it became a significantly deeper and more satisfying gun to use. Magnum also had recoil but it was faster shooting, so skilled players could beat an AR at mid instead of just anyone who happened to shoot first. But oh no, recoil mechanics are "like CoD" and it's just a travesty any time Halo innovates and evolves.
See...yes... You can get head shot multipliers with the AR so the TTK can be short. The SMG is what our want if you just want to spray them down with bullets. The H5 AR has been the best AR ever in Halo if used correctly.
It USED to be the best Halo AR ever, until whatever update made it literally 20 rounds to kill. The mid years of this game had the balance nailed down, and then the community died and got taken over by the sweaties who only like one specific style of gameplay and know that if they mass-complain they can manipulate the devs into changing the game. This ain't my first rodeo, it's not the first nor last time I'll see it happen to a game.

Headshotting with the AR is something you can only do once their shields are popped and it requires you to let off the trigger if you want to actually go for them instead of leaving it up to chance. There's no two ways around it. It's going to be a slower effective kill than the magnum in actual, real gameplay rather than best case scenarios.

Also, the SMG has been nerfed too. It's got essentially the same kill time as the AR which is puzzling to me.
I am pretty sure you can get the multipliers even if their shields are still up. The AR without a doubt would kill faster as a burst fired weapon aimed for the head vs just spraying the body down. But use it as you like.
LethalQ wrote:
LethalQ wrote:
LethalQ wrote:
The AR in H5 can be quite effective in close ranges. But you have to burst fire it and aim for the head...and try to zoom in if you can.
See, no.

Bursting only takes its excessive kill time and makes it even longer, and aiming for the head is just not something to be done intentionally with an automatic, especially at close range.

Most of the time, it ends up being what it used to be in 3 and Reach: a melee assister. The only effective way to use it is to run straight at an enemy and shoot only as much as it takes to melee kill them. Trying to actually gunfight with it is only going to get you popped by a magnum.

I miss the way it was in the beta. Zooming took away bloom and added recoil, and it became a significantly deeper and more satisfying gun to use. Magnum also had recoil but it was faster shooting, so skilled players could beat an AR at mid instead of just anyone who happened to shoot first. But oh no, recoil mechanics are "like CoD" and it's just a travesty any time Halo innovates and evolves.
See...yes... You can get head shot multipliers with the AR so the TTK can be short. The SMG is what our want if you just want to spray them down with bullets. The H5 AR has been the best AR ever in Halo if used correctly.
It USED to be the best Halo AR ever, until whatever update made it literally 20 rounds to kill. The mid years of this game had the balance nailed down, and then the community died and got taken over by the sweaties who only like one specific style of gameplay and know that if they mass-complain they can manipulate the devs into changing the game. This ain't my first rodeo, it's not the first nor last time I'll see it happen to a game.

Headshotting with the AR is something you can only do once their shields are popped and it requires you to let off the trigger if you want to actually go for them instead of leaving it up to chance. There's no two ways around it. It's going to be a slower effective kill than the magnum in actual, real gameplay rather than best case scenarios.

Also, the SMG has been nerfed too. It's got essentially the same kill time as the AR which is puzzling to me.
I am pretty sure you can get the multipliers even if their shields are still up. The AR without a doubt would kill faster as a burst fired weapon aimed for the head vs just spraying the body down. But use it as you like.
If this is true, that's a first for Halo because it's always been a hardline rule that no weapon other than sniper weapon can deal extra damage to a shielded head because there's no reason an energy shield would be weaker in one area over another.
They changed it a bit ago, it’s mainly just because sweatier players go there, I personally keep my distance from it since I’m no sweat that snorts G-Fuel and plays Halo 5 all day trying for an Unfrig in Arena. Now with the Magnum being the meta, AR and SMG use really just got thrown out the window. Why players say spray weapons such as AR, SMG, SAW, etc take no skill to use is because they’re weapons with high DPS and high rate of fire and take barely any skill to use other than aiming and pulling the trigger. I don’t really like Arena, I mainly keep my distance from it and play WZ, but if you like it, I guess play it and expect sweats that snort G-Fuel every single day of their lives.
LethalQ wrote:
LethalQ wrote:
LethalQ wrote:
The AR in H5 can be quite effective in close ranges. But you have to burst fire it and aim for the head...and try to zoom in if you can.
See, no.

Bursting only takes its excessive kill time and makes it even longer, and aiming for the head is just not something to be done intentionally with an automatic, especially at close range.

Most of the time, it ends up being what it used to be in 3 and Reach: a melee assister. The only effective way to use it is to run straight at an enemy and shoot only as much as it takes to melee kill them. Trying to actually gunfight with it is only going to get you popped by a magnum.

I miss the way it was in the beta. Zooming took away bloom and added recoil, and it became a significantly deeper and more satisfying gun to use. Magnum also had recoil but it was faster shooting, so skilled players could beat an AR at mid instead of just anyone who happened to shoot first. But oh no, recoil mechanics are "like CoD" and it's just a travesty any time Halo innovates and evolves.
See...yes... You can get head shot multipliers with the AR so the TTK can be short. The SMG is what our want if you just want to spray them down with bullets. The H5 AR has been the best AR ever in Halo if used correctly.
It USED to be the best Halo AR ever, until whatever update made it literally 20 rounds to kill. The mid years of this game had the balance nailed down, and then the community died and got taken over by the sweaties who only like one specific style of gameplay and know that if they mass-complain they can manipulate the devs into changing the game. This ain't my first rodeo, it's not the first nor last time I'll see it happen to a game.

Headshotting with the AR is something you can only do once their shields are popped and it requires you to let off the trigger if you want to actually go for them instead of leaving it up to chance. There's no two ways around it. It's going to be a slower effective kill than the magnum in actual, real gameplay rather than best case scenarios.

Also, the SMG has been nerfed too. It's got essentially the same kill time as the AR which is puzzling to me.
I am pretty sure you can get the multipliers even if their shields are still up. The AR without a doubt would kill faster as a burst fired weapon aimed for the head vs just spraying the body down. But use it as you like.
If this is true, that's a first for Halo because it's always been a hardline rule that no weapon other than sniper weapon can deal extra damage to a shielded head because there's no reason an energy shield would be weaker in one area over another.
To follow up that, the reason they nerfed the SMG was because it was a melter in CQC and the AR I really don’t see why, but 343 now is making us players who would like to use an AR in CQC required to outplay the Magnum’s overall supremacy from buffs and it being the meta. Myself included in the group of non-sweat Arena players, I find most the time I still have to use a BR or Magnum more than I get to use an AR or SMG. From just my point of view alone, I think that the spray weapons should get a little bit better against the meta leaders (BR, DMR, and especially Magnum) seeing that one of the guns you start with (AR) is supposed to be on even playing fields with the other (Magnum).
I don't entirely agree, but I would like to see 343 take advantage of the full sandbox. There are a lot of interesting weapons like the Razors Edge and Blissful Slumber that could be available as power weapon pickups.
The Weapon Balance got completely screwed over in late 2017 with the game's last big update. It really urks me now that the assault rifle is way better than the smg at close range like Jesus Christ...I understand people didn't want automatics in their playlist and yeah...that sucked -Yoink- that it took 2 years to get legit comp settings in a ranked playlist. But these changes...THESE CHANGES, ugh it's like a third of the reason why I despise this game now. The weapon balance was on par with halo 3's originally imo, where autos did good at close range, while precision did good at their respective ranges, short to long. Now the pistol is the defining weapon to use, the BR is now a backup weapon (wtf...) and the carbine and dmr did start off being absolutely horrible when the weapon tuning update dropped, but got changed into a more fight-able state where they could beat the magnum after a few months. I'm not even someone that has a thing for autos cause for god sake the storm rifle was better than almost every weapon in arena during that update. Some autos got a bad nerf, while others didn't get a nerf at all. It was a big mess. I've gotten used to the weapon balance changes, although that doesn't mean they're good to me. I'm just saying at least every weapon had a purpose before these weapon tuning updates and despite the broken br till then, the pistol, dmr and carbine could all still beat it in their respective ranges no problem, along with the autos.
It used to be skillful back when it was a 13 round kill with less aim assist. There's nothing "unskillful" about a gun that's less likely to get you a kill. Don't know why that logic is so hard for some people.

The AR is ever more skillful now since the reticle is smaller and there is actual bonus damage with headshots. Compared to the previous one where you just held the trigger and got kills. You are saying this is skill? There was literally no effort compared to the magnum.
"Oh there's only one playlist without an AR so why are you complaining?" ...seriously? Yeah, let me just hop into BTB and run an AR. Or hop into Ranked Slayer and see how negative it gets me. It's not enough to just give me an AR if it doesn't actually work. This isn't a game where you can use any weapon based on preference. There's got to be a gameplay niche to fill in order for a weapon to bother being used. So if I never have a reason to use it and it never fires a single round, it might as well not exist in the loadout.
If you use the AR right in BTB(close quarters, you know where it is designed to be effective at) you could probably get some kills. Also, I don't see your point with slayer. I played with a friend and he decided to use his AR. He is a lower rank than I am and had more kills. If you look at all the previous matches where we both use magnums I have more kills. Is that not proof how much easier it is to use an AR? Therefore the AR takes less skill. You shouldn't go negative in slayer using an AR because we played against mid-high diamonds and the highest you've gone is Diamond 1. You should be playing against easier opponents.
This is one of the reasons why if infinite comes out with multiplayer, I wouldn’t trust it. There’s a chance that the game would be ruined after I paid for it. I literally bought h5 about 3 times over the course of its lifespan because the disk kept getting screwed up and I really liked halo 5, only for it to be ruined with a final permanent irreversible update that soiled one of the best things h5 had going for it.

It makes me feel cheated, and now I don’t know if they’ll do the same thing to future games.
It used to be skillful back when it was a 13 round kill with less aim assist. There's nothing "unskillful" about a gun that's less likely to get you a kill. Don't know why that logic is so hard for some people.

The AR is ever more skillful now since the reticle is smaller and there is actual bonus damage with headshots. Compared to the previous one where you just held the trigger and got kills. You are saying this is skill? There was literally no effort compared to the magnum.
"Oh there's only one playlist without an AR so why are you complaining?" ...seriously? Yeah, let me just hop into BTB and run an AR. Or hop into Ranked Slayer and see how negative it gets me. It's not enough to just give me an AR if it doesn't actually work. This isn't a game where you can use any weapon based on preference. There's got to be a gameplay niche to fill in order for a weapon to bother being used. So if I never have a reason to use it and it never fires a single round, it might as well not exist in the loadout.
If you use the AR right in BTB(close quarters, you know where it is designed to be effective at) you could probably get some kills. Also, I don't see your point with slayer. I played with a friend and he decided to use his AR. He is a lower rank than I am and had more kills. If you look at all the previous matches where we both use magnums I have more kills. Is that not proof how much easier it is to use an AR? Therefore the AR takes less skill. You shouldn't go negative in slayer using an AR because we played against mid-high diamonds and the highest you've gone is Diamond 1. You should be playing against easier opponents.
💯 percent disagree just because some one had a game where they got more kills with it than a pistol user means it's less skill. Perhaps that player had more QCQ fights than the other player...perhaps the AR player got a few more mop up kills because he came across more enemy with their shields down... Also as I have said many times why is ability with precision weapons considered the only skill? How about knowing what weapon to use in certain areas of the map or in which engagements would be more effective? If the only skill you want is ability with precision weapons are you really that skilled? To me one thing 343 got right (or close to right as it is not perfect by any means) is the weapon balance as there are more actually useful weapons on the maps compared to previous games.
Yeah I think I'm done with 4v4. It's trashed.

It's literally nothing but magnums. It has replaced not just AR usage, but the pickup precision rifles too. It's just spawn, "pop pop pop pop pop", die, repeat. Mindless.

The AR is supposed to be your co-primary with the magnum only being good insofar as helping you have a fighting chance with anyone who picks up a precision rifle. It's not supposed to be the gun.

The "duels" mindset ruins every team shooter it infects.
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