Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

Can we get rid of spartan charge in all playlists

OP Peyote Wizard

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I have been playing since CE and I feel like it is an important feature in the new uptempo gameplay.

One of the biggest reasons it should stay in is because it encourages the usage of a cqc secondary. People talk about it like there is no counter. The problem is they are being caught with a br in a cqc situation and their secondary is likely going to be another precision weapon. So now you're really screwed because you have to go for gun punch, bxr, or maybe try to jump/dodge/beatdown from above and behind.

But it is only hard to counter with precision weapons. Weapons like the shotgun, sword, hammer, scattershot, etc are hard counters to spartancharge. Some strong counters are the brute plasma rifle and the storm rifle. A few shots of either plus a melee attack at the instant you're spartan charged will result in a melee kill

Even basic human weapons like the ar and smg can be potent when combined with walking backwards and using full auto fire and/or thrust evade. Thrust evade is best used backwards after you damage their shields. This is because they usually are forced to trigger the attack early or retreat. Otherwise you will hold a good advantage against them if they continue.

Ground pound imo is much more powerful but it is also more difficult to pull off. I think it is perfectly tuned. It is harder to counter and the best way to do it besides evading, is to use plasma grenades and stick them as they approach you in mid air. This must immediately be followed up with a thrust evade to the side. It's high risk, but high reward.
You have no idea what you're talking about dude. Spartan charge is not balanced at all and it promotes nooby gameplay. You'd think giving people sprint would be enough, but no, now they have to have a gamebreaking shoulderbash that cannot be effectively countered. Play the game enough and you'll understand why spartan charge sucks and is only praised by noobs.
I don't get it. Do you have multiple accounts? If not I have spent more time playing online than you have, according to halo tracker anyway.
How often do you actually die by Spartan charge? Once every few matches maybe? Can't be that big of a nuisance.
I don't die by the actual charge that often. But I do die by getting charged around a corner, stunned, unable to counter and then one shotted. So I would die by the effects of spartan charge quite a lot. It's a horrible mechanic. Anyone with an objective viewpoint that isn't a noob and uses it as a crutch for their bad gameplay agrees.
No true Scotsman is not an "objective viewpoint." The fact that you think SC is beyond repair and needs to be completely annihilated from all gameplay makes it seem more like you didn't adapt to/don't like the new, uptempo gameplay, and less like a colossal gaffe on the part of the developer to create a balanced game. Otherwise you would probably suggest a nerf to SC, but it seems like you don't like the way the franchise itself is evolving. You don't seem to think highly of sprint or use ground pound often either, which reinforces this imo.
Spartan charge isn't this unavoidable attack that guarantees a kill.
No but it's pretty close.

Example 1.

Example 2.

Example 3.

Since you were asking for a possible change, the only nerf I can really give is either a timer on Spartan Charge, or reduce all magnetism on it. Straight line or bust.

But then I got to thinking, why do we need Spartan Charge? You call it a "melee secondary", but why exactly does melee need a secondary? Most usages of Spartan Charge can be accomplished by you walking up and doing a regular melee, and can even be countered the same way too.

Realistally, it exists to limit Sprint, otherwise you could run around meleeing people all day and kill them before your opponent even gets a chance to react. But Sprint is a whole separate can of worms.

Sometimes the best solution is to remove it, or in your words "annihilate it from gameplay." We've done it before. It's why we don't have Dual Wielding, we don't have Loadouts, we don't have Armor Lock & Jetpack, and we don't have Ordnance.
I'm just going to point out that I have multiple times your game time in Halo 5 and I can say that this is not a question of adapting. I'm 100% certain that I'm better adapted to all aspects of this game than you. Spartan charge is an objecticely bad ability specially because it has an inconsistent counter to it. There are probably hundreds of instances where I should have survived but because the counter melee is somewhat inconsistent I ended up dying a very unnecessary death that shouldn't have happened.

Countering a charge doesn't have anything to do with automatics nor does it encourage their use. Of course it is easier to counter with a storm rifle but it doesn't really matter what weapon is in a proficient player's hands. In a situation where you don't have to rely on counter melee it doesn't matter a bit if I have a br, magnum, ar or a boltshot in my hands. If I can dodge a charge I will get an easy kill regardless of what weapon I'm carrying. And spartan charge otherwise is fine if paired with the ability tracker but the inconsistent counter melee is the real problem. There are situations where you just cannot dodge a charge so you have to go for a counter melee. Now if the counter melee hits I'm at a reasonably equal footing with my opponent and no problem. But the occasion that it does not hit I'm already dead, nothing left to do. Charge would be just fine were it not for that chance of an inconsistent counter melee, every time I do a counter melee I do it the same exact way and with same timing. Most of the time it hits but sometimes (that is seldom but too usually to ignore) it just doesn't hit. Such inconsistency and randomness is already reason enough to drop the ability alltogether (until it would be fixed, but we all knoe we are well beyond such things happening.)For the ground pound I'm just going to say that the way that an instant kill is calculated in this game is reason enough to drop the ability. There are yet again plenty of occasions when either I or my opponent has survived a situation just because of how ground pound instant kills people. The ground pound doesn't do damage based on what the height difference is between the pounder and his target. The damage is calculated from the height difference of the pounder and where he targets the pound. Because of this people can kill opponents in mid air while both of them are at the same height. This causes problems when a player clambers to safety: you cannot chase him because if you clamber after him he can just insta kill pound you by targeting past you while you're clambering. Were this situation to happen in any other Halo game the on clambering to safety would be dead because he could be chased down. But no, in Halo 5 he survives becuause of an artificial height advantage. To add to the ridiculousness: in warzone I can pick the speedbooster armor mod which increases my movement speed and jump height. With it I can go ahead and superslide and pair it with a hover jump and insta kill ground pound people who are on the same platform as I am. Sounds stupid right?So there, people are not using their stature just to remove mechanics they don't like. People use their stature to create discussion about mechanics that are unpolished for one reason or another and as they can't be easily fixed they should be removed. If as you say 'annihilating' mechanics is the only way to balanced and consistent gameplay then so be it. It's not about making it easy, it is about making it consistent and fair to everyone. It is you who is the unprofessional here, instantly accusing others of some bias or personal vendetta on certain aspects of the game. There are more arguments against these abilities that I haven't discussed here and also good things, but objectively I think the bad...
No offense, but you're not better adapted than I am in every last area. Yes, you have all of that extra play time yet we are fairly close in the spartan charge and ground pound departments anyway. According to halo tracker, I am already top one percent in ground pound damage in arena, same as you. It also says my "shoulder bash" damage in arena is higher than yours. So it's not going out on a limb to say that you're not better adapted in every area. These are also the areas in question.

I think you're probably not countering properly, based your statements concerning automatics. In spite of being recently nerfed, they are better than precision weapons in nearly all aspects of charge countering. That encourages their use. Automatics have better ttk speeds and missing a shot or 2 is not nearly as crippling for the ar as it is with the magnum. A counter melee as the spartan charge connects puts you at a disadvantage. You're going to be flying through the air, partially stunned, with lower health than your opponent.

Opening with a counter melee is a hail Mary when nothing else is going to work and you're likely to die anyway. Ideally you want to back up and use automatic fire to put them at a disadvantage. This will usually force them to either retreat or trigger the attack early enough for you to time your thrust evade, preferably backwards.

I disagree with your assessment concerning proficiency. Barring perhaps the highest levels of competitive play, player proficiency should not beat weapon selection imo. If 2 moderately skilled players engage someone using spartan charge, the one with the storm rifle should fare better than the one with the dmr. And that's the whole thing, you want to give yourself these advantages. You know they're coming into close range so you take the shotgun over the storm rifle, and the storm rifle over the dmr.

I do get what you're saying in unavoidable situations where you're going to get hit with SC. You want to go for the counter melee. I just think those don't happen very often and I don't find counter melee to be overly random. It is somewhat difficult to time but they are putting their entire body into a melee attack, so it should be somewhat difficult for the victim to counter with a punch.

I didn't know that was the way ground pound was calculated, but it seems to me that would be reason enough to fix the ability rather than remove it. But it can nonetheless be countered in the way that I highlighted earlier.

And this isn't me blindly defending anyone. This is people using their stature in the halo community to annihilate parts of gameplay and make it easier for themselves. They are not suggesting a nerf or a correction of something grossly overpowered in order to preserve diverse gameplay. They want it to be precisions all day.

One way I haven't adjusted well is to the amount of bullet magnetism or aim assist. I feel it's more difficult to take advantage of them on a higher sensitivity than it used to be. I play on boxer and I always have. I used to play on 10 and go for melee kills, but in this game I had to choose between being able to track someone who is jumping around right next to me and trying to dodge my melee attacks, and having aim steady enough to win br fights.
Higher sensitivities were so bad in halo 5 that I was better off wasting sniper ammo than trying to use it.

I chose the lower sensitivity and mostly rolled with it - in spite of my great frustration when I get out-maneuvered and beat down. The difference is that I try to offer thought out suggestions and small tweaks rather than to ask for my own playlist devoid of all things that bother me and like-minded players.
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@OmegaRogueGhost
No offense taken, nevertheless I think it's hard to evaluate skills regarding charge and ground pound by damage done. All it really tells is how much one uses the abilities. I've always used both of those abilities only when they are the best option. And in arena even I use them even less these days because I play almost exclusively HCS/Team Arena and Warzone. I rather rely on guns, melee and grenades in most situations.

The automatics thing is kind of funny, in my experience automatics work best in situations in which you can get the kill without relying on a counter melee and you get hit by the charge. If you can dodge the charge then I find that it doesn't matter which weapon you're using. The current AR is probably the best weapon when getting charged and you get the counter melee in due to the increased headshot multiplier. In counter melee situations I'd say AR > any precision weapon > other automatics. You're left with so little hp so you need a nigh instant kill so the AR and precision weapons are the only viable choice. In the past of course storm rifle and SMG would've been even better than AR but they got nerfed to oblivion. If there's enough distance to thrust back and still safely shoot a opponent attempting a charge the AR on par with precision weapons but the other automatics are once again almost obsolete. But that's my experience, I agree that AR is very effective in the situations mentioned but to me it seems that AR is the only automatic that is really promoted here, that's one out of four automatics.

I don't know if it's my connection or what but every time when I counter melee a charge succesfully the lunge of my melee makes me stay toe to toe with my opponent and I can just easily thrust past my opponent and shoot the easily. I'd say that almost every time I get a succesful counter melee I end up getting at least an trade - usually I survive and get the kill - unless I just plain choke real hard.

Regarding the player proficiency I never mentioned that proficiency should beat weapon selection. I merely mentioned that in a situation in which you don't have to rely on a counter melee to counter a charge it doesn't matter what weapon a good player uses. I'd like to think that even a bit above average player can do it due to unsuccesful charge leaving you wide open. I personally think there should be a middle ground between skill and weapon choice.

The counter melee inconsistency probably has a lot to do with connections and due to my high MMR and location I'm forced to play on quite bad connections so it might cause it to be more common for me than it is for others. Though it still happens even on good connections.

Now the aim thing I can relate to. This game's aim is so wonky, I've got a elite controller, great internet connection and a gaming monitor so no hardware problems for me. But the server connection effects the aim for certain, upon starting a match I always move my reticle in a certain way and from the feel of my aim I can instantly determine the connection quality. Not to mention the heavy aim issues which force me to spam the start menu in and out during a match to reset my aim. It will never cease to confuse me how aiming is associated with server connections. If something in this game should be fixed it's that. I've played this game on every sensitivity between 3 and 10 and all accelerations and most of the deadzones. In the end I've settled 4 sens, 3 accel, and 0% 0% deadzones because higher sensitivies just are too inprecise in competetive matches.

But in the end I think I never made it apparent in anyway: I'd certainly prefer if mechanics were fixed and rebalanced in the game rather than having them removed completely. I'd enjoy a diverse weapon sandbox and spartan moveset but in the end the game is so old that such fixes won't happen. Neither will charge be removed from any place other than HCS. It's just important to create discussion like this and make devs aware of all sides of the issues.
One of the most annoying things in a Halo game next to Armor Lock.
Spartan charge isn't this unavoidable attack that guarantees a kill.
No but it's pretty close.

Example 1.

Example 2.

Example 3.

Since you were asking for a possible change, the only nerf I can really give is either a timer on Spartan Charge, or reduce all magnetism on it. Straight line or bust.

But then I got to thinking, why do we need Spartan Charge? You call it a "melee secondary", but why exactly does melee need a secondary? Most usages of Spartan Charge can be accomplished by you walking up and doing a regular melee, and can even be countered the same way too.

Realistally, it exists to limit Sprint, otherwise you could run around meleeing people all day and kill them before your opponent even gets a chance to react. But Sprint is a whole separate can of worms.

Sometimes the best solution is to remove it, or in your words "annihilate it from gameplay." We've done it before. It's why we don't have Dual Wielding, we don't have Loadouts, we don't have Armor Lock & Jetpack, and we don't have Ordnance.
I'm starting to notice a trend.

Everyone I'm discussing spartan charge with in this thread is extremely reliant on magnums, then BRs in that order.

You asked: "Why do we need Spartan Charge?" The reason for it is to preserve diverse game play. Not everyone wants to go around plinking people at 13 meters with magnums. If you do, that's 100% fine because that's what you're comfortable with, what you're good at, and it probably increases your KD. But the BR/Magnum is not going to be a good counter to certain weapons and attacks. In my opinion, this is a good thing because it keeps the game play from stagnating.

With regards to your examples, the first and the third didn't even really see the charge coming and got hit from behind. The first attacker especially timed the attack well. Like what was supposed to happen?

The second one was a pretty solid tactic when defending against it. The first reason the defender lost by that slim margin is because they gambled by not thrust evading and missed a lot of followup shots after the charge landed. This was also true for one who used the charge as they only landed 1/4 shots. You'll also notice that the red spartan got double teamed by the retreating blue spartan from the beginning of the clip. That other blue spartan may have been the one to actually get the kill.
Like always people hate on the abilities that are easy to get kills with. Personally I don't mind Spartan Charge because all your doing is tackling your enemy and I would much rather get rid of auto aim on all the weapons except for weapons like the energy sword and those that need it. But if 343 made it harder to use Spartan Charge people wouldn't do it as much. All that needs to be done is turn the max to top seed to 200% from 100% and makes it so people don't do as much.
But in the future Halo games I hope they give us more abilities to use so its more about choice.
Spartan charge isn't this unavoidable attack that guarantees a kill.
No but it's pretty close.

Example 1.

Example 2.

Example 3.

Since you were asking for a possible change, the only nerf I can really give is either a timer on Spartan Charge, or reduce all magnetism on it. Straight line or bust.

But then I got to thinking, why do we need Spartan Charge? You call it a "melee secondary", but why exactly does melee need a secondary? Most usages of Spartan Charge can be accomplished by you walking up and doing a regular melee, and can even be countered the same way too.

Realistally, it exists to limit Sprint, otherwise you could run around meleeing people all day and kill them before your opponent even gets a chance to react. But Sprint is a whole separate can of worms.

Sometimes the best solution is to remove it, or in your words "annihilate it from gameplay." We've done it before. It's why we don't have Dual Wielding, we don't have Loadouts, we don't have Armor Lock & Jetpack, and we don't have Ordnance.
I'm starting to notice a trend.

Everyone I'm discussing spartan charge with in this thread is extremely reliant on magnums, then BRs in that order.

You asked: "Why do we need Spartan Charge?" The reason for it is to preserve diverse game play. Not everyone wants to go around plinking people at 13 meters with magnums. If you do, that's 100% fine because that's what you're comfortable with, what you're good at, and it probably increases your KD. But the BR/Magnum is not going to be a good counter to certain weapons and attacks. In my opinion, this is a good thing because it keeps the game play from stagnating.

With regards to your examples, the first and the third didn't even really see the charge coming and got hit from behind. The first attacker especially timed the attack well. Like what was supposed to happen?

The second one was a pretty solid tactic when defending against it. The first reason the defender lost by that slim margin is because they gambled by not thrust evading and missed a lot of followup shots after the charge landed. This was also true for one who used the charge as they only landed 1/4 shots. You'll also notice that the red spartan got double teamed by the retreating blue spartan from the beginning of the clip. That other blue spartan may have been the one to actually get the kill.
I mean the Magnum is the utility weapon of the entire game, the whole sandbox revolves around it and is effective in all ranges. So...duh? A lot of people rely on the Magnum, the de facto "main weapon" of the entire game. Meanwhile the AR can only reliably handle itself in close to mid-range, and it was pretty overpowered at that. Even at the pro level, the Magnum is the weapon that people use the most, and they use it for a reason.

What gives you the impression that I rely on the Magnum and then BR? I'm going to assume you're looking at my stats, in which case good luck because I play a lot of Firefight, hence why my Halo 2 Battle Rifle kills are in 3rd place, with barely any H2 Battle Rifles present outside of Warzone. Even then the stats aren't wholly truthful because in almost every playlist, you are forced to start with a Magnum & AR or BR & AR, in maps that primarily put you around mid-distance with your opponent. You brought up the Storm Rifle, SMG, Brute Plasma, etc. etc., but you don't spawn with those, those are map pick ups. Which means in order to reliably counter Spartan Charge, you have to either stick with the AR, or go out and find a weapon on the map to counter a mechanic that can take place at any time at any location.

Someone else brought that up to you as well, but you kinda handwaved it away by assuming he was only using precision weapons and gave some situation about snipers, which didn't answer any of his concerns.

So your "reasoning" for having Spartan Charge is that it's more diverse than shooting people with a Pistol all day, but that didn't answer my question. Why do we need a melee secondary? How is Spartan Charge any better for gameplay than just running up and hitting someone with a normal melee? What is the "secondary" for that the "primary" cannot accomplish? You can give me a reason that the Pistol exists for something the AR cannot do, but what is something that melee cannot do that Spartan Charge is needed for?

The point of my examples was the fact that them using Spartan Charge made them travel at a 90 degree angle to hit the opponent who should have otherwise dodged it, because Spartan Charge comes with "bullet" magnetism, meaning a near-guaranteed hit on your opponent as long as the bracket was red when you press the button. That's part of why Spartan Charge is "overpowered."
Sprinting is one thing, but boosting and armor charging is another. Very annoying when I get someone to one shot and they're able to just boost away. Also annoying when I get one shotted by spartan charge.
Spartan charge isn't this unavoidable attack that guarantees a kill.
No but it's pretty close.

Example 1.

Example 2.

Example 3.

Since you were asking for a possible change, the only nerf I can really give is either a timer on Spartan Charge, or reduce all magnetism on it. Straight line or bust.

But then I got to thinking, why do we need Spartan Charge? You call it a "melee secondary", but why exactly does melee need a secondary? Most usages of Spartan Charge can be accomplished by you walking up and doing a regular melee, and can even be countered the same way too.

Realistally, it exists to limit Sprint, otherwise you could run around meleeing people all day and kill them before your opponent even gets a chance to react. But Sprint is a whole separate can of worms.

Sometimes the best solution is to remove it, or in your words "annihilate it from gameplay." We've done it before. It's why we don't have Dual Wielding, we don't have Loadouts, we don't have Armor Lock & Jetpack, and we don't have Ordnance.
I knew there was some lock on that move, because even when I jump over the person I still get hit.
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Spartan charge isn't this unavoidable attack that guarantees a kill.
No but it's pretty close.

Example 1.

Example 2.

Example 3.

Since you were asking for a possible change, the only nerf I can really give is either a timer on Spartan Charge, or reduce all magnetism on it. Straight line or bust.

But then I got to thinking, why do we need Spartan Charge? You call it a "melee secondary", but why exactly does melee need a secondary? Most usages of Spartan Charge can be accomplished by you walking up and doing a regular melee, and can even be countered the same way too.

Realistally, it exists to limit Sprint, otherwise you could run around meleeing people all day and kill them before your opponent even gets a chance to react. But Sprint is a whole separate can of worms.

Sometimes the best solution is to remove it, or in your words "annihilate it from gameplay." We've done it before. It's why we don't have Dual Wielding, we don't have Loadouts, we don't have Armor Lock & Jetpack, and we don't have Ordnance.
I'm starting to notice a trend.

Everyone I'm discussing spartan charge with in this thread is extremely reliant on magnums, then BRs in that order.

You asked: "Why do we need Spartan Charge?" The reason for it is to preserve diverse game play. Not everyone wants to go around plinking people at 13 meters with magnums. If you do, that's 100% fine because that's what you're comfortable with, what you're good at, and it probably increases your KD. But the BR/Magnum is not going to be a good counter to certain weapons and attacks. In my opinion, this is a good thing because it keeps the game play from stagnating.

With regards to your examples, the first and the third didn't even really see the charge coming and got hit from behind. The first attacker especially timed the attack well. Like what was supposed to happen?

The second one was a pretty solid tactic when defending against it. The first reason the defender lost by that slim margin is because they gambled by not thrust evading and missed a lot of followup shots after the charge landed. This was also true for one who used the charge as they only landed 1/4 shots. You'll also notice that the red spartan got double teamed by the retreating blue spartan from the beginning of the clip. That other blue spartan may have been the one to actually get the kill.
I mean the Magnum is the utility weapon of the entire game, the whole sandbox revolves around it and is effective in all ranges. So...duh? A lot of people rely on the Magnum, the de facto "main weapon" of the entire game. Meanwhile the AR can only reliably handle itself in close to mid-range, and it was pretty overpowered at that. Even at the pro level, the Magnum is the weapon that people use the most, and they use it for a reason.

What gives you the impression that I rely on the Magnum and then BR? I'm going to assume you're looking at my stats, in which case good luck because I play a lot of Firefight, hence why my Halo 2 Battle Rifle kills are in 3rd place, with barely any H2 Battle Rifles present outside of Warzone. Even then the stats aren't wholly truthful because in almost every playlist, you are forced to start with a Magnum & AR or BR & AR, in maps that primarily put you around mid-distance with your opponent. You brought up the Storm Rifle, SMG, Brute Plasma, etc. etc., but you don't spawn with those, those are map pick ups. Which means in order to reliably counter Spartan Charge, you have to either stick with the AR, or go out and find a weapon on the map to counter a mechanic that can take place at any time at any location.

Someone else brought that up to you as well, but you kinda handwaved it away by assuming he was only using precision weapons and gave some situation about snipers, which didn't answer any of his concerns.

So your "reasoning" for having Spartan Charge is that it's more diverse than shooting people with a Pistol all day, but that didn't answer my question. Why do we need a melee secondary? How is Spartan Charge any better for gameplay than just running up and hitting someone with a normal melee? What is the "secondary" for that the "primary" cannot accomplish? You can give me a reason that the Pistol exists for something the AR cannot do, but what is something that melee cannot do that Spartan Charge is needed for?

The point of my examples was the fact that them using Spartan Charge made them travel at a 90 degree angle to hit the...
Yeah, I did check your stats out and because you played so little arena, I made sure to check out your warzone stats too. They weren't much different proportionally and you are heavily reliant on the magnum/br in both. But just because that's what you choose to use extensively doesn't mean that the game is based on the magnum. That one dimensional thinking is what is getting you killed because it's obviously not countering spartan charge.

Spawning with an assault rifle is a sufficient counter to spartan charge. Your second clip showed that much, where someone who got spartan charged AND double teamed nearly brought down their attacker. If you need additional firepower against rushing enemies, it's your job to go pick it up. You're not going to spawn with a hard counter to everything. You get that second weapon slot for a reason.

Furthermore, you're going to have to switch to and use that cqc weapon in tight quarters, making sure to use your thrust evade as well. Because as you know, trying to open with a counter melee against a stronger melee attack puts you at a disadvantage even if your melee connects. This is compounded by using an inappropriate weapon and banking on a difficult headshot.

What I told the other guy to do was to hang back and provide overwatch if he was not able to to stop getting charged. This keeps him more out of harms way and there's no shortage of targets running all over the place trying to spartan charge his teammates. That "Some situation about snipers" that you referred to was a petty detail.

I feel like you kind of answered your own "secondary melee" question with your example as well. Like you said, the ar and the magnum fulfill different roles, right? So do melee and spartancharge. So does ground pound for that matter.

I feel like I could ask the same questions of the magnum. Why do we need to spawn with a secondary gun if we spawn with the ar? How is the magnum any better for gameplay than just running up and shooting someone with the ar? I hope you see the irony. Honestly, you seem to have noticed that spartan charge can do things melee cannot; that's the reason we are here.

You even have an reason that you do not like the charge and believe it is op: it has too much magnetism in your opinion. Why is getting rid of it better than proposing a nerf? It's your reluctance to do that which makes it seem like you would rather have a more simple, streamlined game instead of having a more complicated one where you have a tough learning curve and have to grind to learn all of the different weapons and attacks.

Personally I dislike the magnum but I know it has an important niche in midrange combat. I look forward to getting better with it in time as well. But spartan charge has an important niche too - in countering people using midrange weapons in cqc situations.
Yeah, I did check your stats out and because you played so little arena, I made sure to check out your warzone stats too. They weren't much different proportionally and you are heavily reliant on the magnum/br in both. But just because that's what you choose to use extensively doesn't mean that the game is based on the magnum. That one dimensional thinking is what is getting you killed because it's obviously not countering spartan charge.

-snip because I quoted most of this-

Personally I dislike the magnum but I know it has an important niche in midrange combat. I look forward to getting better with it in time as well. But spartan charge has an important niche too - in countering people using midrange weapons in cqc situations.
Warzone stats include Warzone Firefight. So that's quite a bit unfair when the most numerous enemies (Grunts, Jackals, Crawlers) don't even have shields, and being in close range is not in your favor because everything can kill you in one hit. So I would never use an automatic weapon when I could stay back with the safety of a ranged precision weapon, or better yet, use a vehicle that surpasses both by a country mile.

And even just Warzone is a little bit misleading. You start with the Pistol (and AR), and you get the Battle Rifle before any other automatic weapon (minus the Suppressor, which isn't suitable for close range), you're also on a map that is essentially designed around mostly mid range engagements and vehicles. Like most automatic kills involve rushing/defending a base, and even then a Magnum can still perform fine there.

"But just because that's what you choose to use extensively doesn't mean that the game is based on the magnum." - That's not why. It just is based around the Magnum. It's the utility weapon and 343i designed the sandbox as such. Your "go-to" weapon for most situations. The DMR used to be literally "better Magnum" in terms of stats, and the BR almost had an identical TTK to the Magnum. You don't have to use the Magnum 24/7 if you don't want to, but that doesn't stop it from being the utility weapon of the game.

I don't know who told you that I can't counter Spartan Charge, because that's not what i said. I said that there's no reliable counter to Spartan Charge, due to the bullet magnetism, the ease of use, and the damage of it. The best way to stop it is to prevent Spartan Charge from activating in the first place, which is taking them down at range. You can dodge it with Thrust evade, but again bullet magnetism doesn't care, it'll turn and hit you anyway. That's the point of my examples.

"What I told the other guy to do was to hang back and provide overwatch if he was not able to to stop getting charged. This keeps him more out of harms way and there's no shortage of targets running all over the place trying to spartan charge his teammates." - Because that doesn't stop Spartan Charge, that just means he never encounters a Spartan Charge. Again, that wasn't his concern. His concern was the fact that Spartan Charge can happen at any time, yet your counter is a weapon you may or may not have. So while there is not always a counter to Spartan Charge, there is always a counter to ranged weapons...which is Melee/Spartan Charge as you described.

"I feel like you kind of answered your own "secondary melee" question with your example as well. Like you said, the ar and the magnum fulfill different roles, right? So do melee and spartancharge." - How? That's my question. I didn't answer it, I said melee and Spartan Charge are the same thing that fulfills the same role. (Well, technically no, Spartan Charge's role is to limit Sprint, but otherwise for all intents and purposes it is melee).

The AR and Pistol are very straightforward. AR is for nonaccurate shots at close range. Pistol is for accurate shots at mid range. Boom, two different roles. It even goes deeper than that, but that's just the surface level.

"How is the magnum any better for gameplay than just running up and shooting someone with the ar?" - Because without it, the time it takes to get from the Magnum's optimal range to close range while firing the AR (meaning less than perfect accuracy, because you're outside of the AR's optimal range), is much longer than using a Magnum. It also forces every battle from spawn to take place at close range. Finally, it means that once you do get a precision weapon (Carbine, Battle Rifle, especially Sniper Rifles), you are basically unstoppable because no one can get close enough to hit you without having a power weapon or extremely bad positioning. We've seen this in Halo 2 when the Battle Rifle was king and you started with a weak Pistol. That's a really bad argument.

"Honestly, you seem to have noticed that spartan charge can do things melee cannot" - Other than the bullet magnetism (which is a bad thing), and it being used while Sprinting (which is a nonissue, once you disable Spartan Charge you just melee instead), it's really not different. They're both melee attacks on the horizontal plane to deal damage to someones shields to finish off with a weapon or second melee.

"You even have an reason that you do not like the charge and believe it is op: it has too much magnetism in your opinion. Why is getting rid of it better than proposing a nerf?" - Because it doesn't answer why Spartan Charge exists, and it's dependent on a whole different mechanic that I would rather see removed (Sprint) and without it, it has no reason to exist. Eventually you real a point where you nerf something so hard, you question it's existence. And if no one uses it due to said nerf, then it's almost the same thing as removing it. Removing things is a perfectly valid method of balancing the game.

" It's your reluctance to do that which makes it seem like you would rather have a more simple, streamlined game instead of having a more complicated one where you have a tough learning curve and have to grind to learn all of the different weapons and attacks." - That's kinda the opposite of a learning curve. It's more like a 90 degree wall. Or in other words, you're raising the skill floor but not the skill ceiling, and that gap between the two is that determines the "learning curve." It's like telling me Loadouts is the best answer because you had to learn the right time to use the right weapon to counter everyone else's right weapons. But we removed that in Halo 5's Arena to go back to equal starts.

People consider Halo CE the most competitive Halo game to date and it was entirely due to how streamlined it is on the surface, but how complicated it is under that surface. In that game you had different melee hiboxes depending on what weapon you were holding. There were less than 10 weapons in the entire sandbox, yet every weapon had a niche role that couldn't be fulfilled by another (except the Needler).

Making a game more complicated doesn't necessarily mean it's better. That's why people always say "easy to use, hard to master" for things
I'd just like an HCS FFA playlist
I know 343 says that they tried, but I call -Yoink-!
How often do you actually die by Spartan charge? Once every few matches maybe? Can't be that big of a nuisance.
I don't die by the actual charge that often. But I do die by getting charged around a corner, stunned, unable to counter and then one shotted. So I would die by the effects of spartan charge quite a lot. It's a horrible mechanic. Anyone with an objective viewpoint that isn't a noob and uses it as a crutch for their bad gameplay agrees.
No true Scotsman is not an "objective viewpoint." The fact that you think SC is beyond repair and needs to be completely annihilated from all gameplay makes it seem more like you didn't adapt to/don't like the new, uptempo gameplay, and less like a colossal gaffe on the part of the developer to create a balanced game. Otherwise you would probably suggest a nerf to SC, but it seems like you don't like the way the franchise itself is evolving. You don't seem to think highly of sprint or use ground pound often either, which reinforces this imo.
You shouldn't have to "adapt" to bad game design dude that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. That's basically saying that if you don't like a feature you're just not good enough to adapt to how bad it ruins the game. Why people think we should just bend over and allow 343 to screw up the games we love is complete lunacy. Oh here's something that doesn't work in halo, i'll just ADAPT to it instead of trying to actually make the game better and remove it. Think for yourself dude.
How come, and if it's because you kept on dying in matches cause of it then don't even bother posting. There is nothing wrong with it and it would make no sense to remove it.
I assume halo infinite won't be out for a while.. maybe it would bring back players and keep veteran players playing H5 if you got rid of the worst feature in the entire game. Just speculation.
Sadly not but I think the only way you can get those type playlists is in the throwback Halo 1-3 playlists that they sometimes put up.
How often do you actually die by Spartan charge? Once every few matches maybe? Can't be that big of a nuisance.
I don't die by the actual charge that often. But I do die by getting charged around a corner, stunned, unable to counter and then one shotted. So I would die by the effects of spartan charge quite a lot. It's a horrible mechanic. Anyone with an objective viewpoint that isn't a noob and uses it as a crutch for their bad gameplay agrees.
No true Scotsman is not an "objective viewpoint." The fact that you think SC is beyond repair and needs to be completely annihilated from all gameplay makes it seem more like you didn't adapt to/don't like the new, uptempo gameplay, and less like a colossal gaffe on the part of the developer to create a balanced game. Otherwise you would probably suggest a nerf to SC, but it seems like you don't like the way the franchise itself is evolving. You don't seem to think highly of sprint or use ground pound often either, which reinforces this imo.
You shouldn't have to "adapt" to bad game design dude that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. That's basically saying that if you don't like a feature you're just not good enough to adapt to how bad it ruins the game. Why people think we should just bend over and allow 343 to screw up the games we love is complete lunacy. Oh here's something that doesn't work in halo, i'll just ADAPT to it instead of trying to actually make the game better and remove it. Think for yourself dude.
It's easy to adapt to a bad game. It's even easy to be good at a bad game. But the fact that it's a bad game means people won't be playing that game very long. That's why you see a small population on H5 and even why you still see some halo veterans playing it. The fact of it is that spartan charge is a VERY annoying part of the game and in my opinion was put in to complement sprint which a lot of people don't like as well.
Yeah, I did check your stats out and because you played so little arena, I made sure to check out your warzone stats too. They weren't much different proportionally and you are heavily reliant on the magnum/br in both. But just because that's what you choose to use extensively doesn't mean that the game is based on the magnum. That one dimensional thinking is what is getting you killed because it's obviously not countering spartan charge.

-snip because I quoted most of this-

Personally I dislike the magnum but I know it has an important niche in midrange combat. I look forward to getting better with it in time as well. But spartan charge has an important niche too - in countering people using midrange weapons in cqc situations.
Warzone stats include Warzone Firefight. So that's quite a bit unfair when the most numerous enemies (Grunts, Jackals, Crawlers) don't even have shields, and being in close range is not in your favor because everything can kill you in one hit. So I would never use an automatic weapon when I could stay back with the safety of a ranged precision weapon, or better yet, use a vehicle that surpasses both by a country mile.

And even just Warzone is a little bit misleading. You start with the Pistol (and AR), and you get the Battle Rifle before any other automatic weapon (minus the Suppressor, which isn't suitable for close range), you're also on a map that is essentially designed around mostly mid range engagements and vehicles. Like most automatic kills involve rushing/defending a base, and even then a Magnum can still perform fine there.

"But just because that's what you choose to use extensively doesn't mean that the game is based on the magnum." - That's not why. It just is based around the Magnum. It's the utility weapon and 343i designed the sandbox as such. Your "go-to" weapon for most situations. The DMR used to be literally "better Magnum" in terms of stats, and the BR almost had an identical TTK to the Magnum. You don't have to use the Magnum 24/7 if you don't want to, but that doesn't stop it from being the utility weapon of the game.

I don't know who told you that I can't counter Spartan Charge, because that's not what i said. I said that there's no reliable counter to Spartan Charge, due to the bullet magnetism, the ease of use, and the damage of it. The best way to stop it is to prevent Spartan Charge from activating in the first place, which is taking them down at range. You can dodge it with Thrust evade, but again bullet magnetism doesn't care, it'll turn and hit you anyway. That's the point of my examples.

"What I told the other guy to do was to hang back and provide overwatch if he was not able to to stop getting charged. This keeps him more out of harms way and there's no shortage of targets running all over the place trying to spartan charge his teammates." - Because that doesn't stop Spartan Charge, that just means he never encounters a Spartan Charge. Again, that wasn't his concern. His concern was the fact that Spartan Charge can happen at any time, yet your counter is a weapon you may or may not have. So while there is not always a counter to Spartan Charge, there is always a counter to ranged weapons...which is Melee/Spartan Charge as you described.

"I feel like you kind of answered your own "secondary melee" question with your example as well. Like you said, the ar and the magnum fulfill different roles, right? So do melee and spartancharge." - How? That's my question. I didn't answer it, I said melee and Spartan Charge are the same thing that fulfills the same role. (Well, technically no, Spartan Charge's role is to limit Sprint, but otherwise for all intents and purposes it is melee).

The AR and Pistol are very straightforward. AR is for nonaccurate shots at close range. Pistol is for accurate shots at mid range. Boom, two different roles. It even goes deeper than that, but that's just the surface level.

"How is the magnum any better for gameplay than just running up and shooting someone with the ar?" - Because without it, the time it takes to get from the Magnum's optimal range to close range while firing the AR (meaning less than perfect accuracy, because you're outside of the AR's optimal range), is much longer than using a Magnum. It also forces every battle from spawn to take place at close range. Finally, it means that once you do get a precision weapon (Carbine, Battle Rifle, especially Sniper Rifles), you are basically unstoppable because no one can get close enough to hit you without having a power weapon or extremely bad positioning. We've seen this in Halo 2 when the Battle Rifle was king and you started with a weak Pistol. That's a really bad argument.

"Honestly, you seem to have noticed that spartan charge can do things melee cannot" - Other than the bullet magnetism (which is a bad thing), and it being used while Sprinting (which is a nonissue, once you disable Spartan Charge you just melee instead), it's really not different. They're both melee attacks on the horizontal plane to deal damage to someones shields to finish off with a weapon or second melee.

"You even have an reason that you do not like the charge and believe it is op: it has too much magnetism in your opinion. Why is getting rid of it better than proposing a nerf?" - Because it doesn't answer why Spartan Charge exists, and it's dependent on a whole different mechanic that I would rather see removed (Sprint) and without it, it has no reason to exist. Eventually you real a point where you nerf something so hard, you question it's existence. And if no one uses it due to said nerf, then it's almost the same thing as removing it...
I disagree, Halo is not based around the magnum as the primary go to weapon. You spawn with an AR and the BR as well, and many people make use of both rather than foolishly relying on the magnum for everything. Even giving you the benefit of the doubt about your warzone stats, it was a trend consisting of multiple players. It is interesting to see someone suggest the removal of spartan charge after suggesting they are mostly playing against the AI in warzone. Hanging back and providing overwatch so that you never encounter spartan charge is a pretty good counter. It's akin to getting sniped less by avoiding open areas, that's just how you counter certain things. That tactic is especially good if you like precision weapons exclusively and hate losing to melee attacks in CQC like the OP does. As for the roles of spartan charge and melee, you realize there is a difference in their roles because you're complaining about one and not both. You even listed range as the difference between the pistol and AR. If you can make that connection, then you can make the same connection with spartan charge and melee. And that brings me to my next point: with the difference being range, you also understand why "Most usages of Spartan Charge can be accomplished by you walking up and doing a regular melee" just isn't true. You don't have that range while casually walking up to someone and hitting them, but with spartan charge, you do. You also have to sneak up or around people to use it very effectively, otherwise you usually get shot a few times and wrapped up with a melee if you even make it to your target. It's not this easy, spammable, guaranteed kill you make it out to be.
How often do you actually die by Spartan charge? Once every few matches maybe? Can't be that big of a nuisance.
I don't die by the actual charge that often. But I do die by getting charged around a corner, stunned, unable to counter and then one shotted. So I would die by the effects of spartan charge quite a lot. It's a horrible mechanic. Anyone with an objective viewpoint that isn't a noob and uses it as a crutch for their bad gameplay agrees.
No true Scotsman is not an "objective viewpoint." The fact that you think SC is beyond repair and needs to be completely annihilated from all gameplay makes it seem more like you didn't adapt to/don't like the new, uptempo gameplay, and less like a colossal gaffe on the part of the developer to create a balanced game. Otherwise you would probably suggest a nerf to SC, but it seems like you don't like the way the franchise itself is evolving. You don't seem to think highly of sprint or use ground pound often either, which reinforces this imo.
You shouldn't have to "adapt" to bad game design dude that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. That's basically saying that if you don't like a feature you're just not good enough to adapt to how bad it ruins the game. Why people think we should just bend over and allow 343 to screw up the games we love is complete lunacy. Oh here's something that doesn't work in halo, i'll just ADAPT to it instead of trying to actually make the game better and remove it. Think for yourself dude.
Well I think it's a great addition to Halo. If you don't then there are (apparently) playlists for you where you're safe from bad old spartan charge so you don't have to adapt. If I were you though, I would be more concerned with spartan charge or a similar feature being included in the next game.
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