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Everyone is Good in Their Own Way

OP THA LIMO DRIVER

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PapaLubie wrote:
this is quite a far away from the topic but why do people put HCS after their name? doesn't that mean Halo Championship Series?
Because everyone is a Halo Champion in their own way. That was too easy.
your too good my friend
i had troubles with some silvers too in swat
Noble 29 wrote:
I see a lot of smurfs on the battlefield. It's not something to be gloating and boasting about, if you are a smurf, thank you for driving away Halo's population. It will be you who ultimately won't benefit from your wrongdoing.
Except you CAN help people with those smurf accounts by giving them tips and tricks, and you can use them to play customs, which have NO EFFECT on playlists. Not all smurf users are griefers. Save that halo population crap for the farmers and people who are using them DESTRUCTIVELY. Smurf accounts aren't a basis of "one bad apple ruins the bunch"

(No, I'm not saying smurfing is justified, but rather, they can be used in a positive manner as well, or even to hide your main identity for customs/forge.)
Wrong. All smurfs distort the way the ranking system works. People who legitimately smurf will throw the first 10+ games away to get an awful rank because the game will think you're an absolutely dreadful player. Then when they're ranked in the Bronze or Silver ranking with people who are legitimately of that skill set, they turn up the heat and absolutely demolish them and there's nothing stopping them since it would take them so long to rank up even to the platinum rankings. That means bronze/silver/gold players are getting matched up with people who are actually high Diamond, Onyx, and Champion ranks which ruins the way the ranking system works for everyone else. Nobody cares about smurfs in custom games or forge or anything like that, this is about matchmaking and smurfing is destructive regardless of whether or not they actively grief teammates.
"Wrong. All smurfs distort the way the ranking system works."

Generalizations =/= the truth. Some people use alt/dummy accounts for customs, and to see where they would actually rank in 10 games on a clean slate (E.G. Proximitty's smurf/dummy account.)

"People who legitimately smurf will throw the first 10+ games away to get an awful rank because the game will think you're an absolutely dreadful player. Then when they're ranked in the Bronze or Silver ranking with people who are legitimately of that skill set, they turn up the heat and absolutely demolish them and there's nothing stopping them since it would take them so long to rank up even to the platinum rankings."

Again, Generalization. Where the hell is your evidence to backup what you're saying?

"That means bronze/silver/gold players are getting matched up with people who are actually high Diamond, Onyx, and Champion ranks which ruins the way the ranking system works for everyone else."

Um... hello? Smurfing happens in all ranks. Not just Bronze-gold. Hell, I've seen people that already have champs accounts get champs on their 2nd account in playlists such as breakout. Just because it might happen in lower ranks doesn't mean we should ignore it in the higher ranks.

"Nobody cares about smurfs in custom games or forge or anything like that, this is about matchmaking and smurfing is destructive regardless of whether or not they actively grief teammates."

Ok, where in the post that I quoted does it say that the player is referring to matchmaking? Go on, I'll wait. Also, in terms of the soft/hidden ranking system, why is it wrong for me to play infection on a second account for fun? Why is it justified for people in parties to boost for wins with nobody batting an eye towards them, but it is "not right" for people to relax on a dummy account so people don't target them due to their rank/stats? What about those players who want a clean slate in warzone to play like a person that just started out in halo? Is it wrong for them as to make a second account as well, possibly bypassing that hidden ranking system?
Honestly the point of the game is to have fun and challenge yourself. Also with the ranking system in halo 5 resetting the ranks every month kind of make it pointless IMO. So literally just have fun playing with friends and anyone who is talking -Yoink- probably has nothing better to do.
Its also nice that there actually is a forum out there where people actually like to say the just like to play the game instead of just trash talking people all the time.
Noble 29 wrote:
I see a lot of smurfs on the battlefield. It's not something to be gloating and boasting about, if you are a smurf, thank you for driving away Halo's population. It will be you who ultimately won't benefit from your wrongdoing.
"Wrong. All smurfs distort the way the ranking system works."

Generalizations =/= the truth. Some people use alt/dummy accounts for customs, and to see where they would actually rank in 10 games on a clean slate (E.G. Proximitty's smurf/dummy account.)

"People who legitimately smurf will throw the first 10+ games away to get an awful rank because the game will think you're an absolutely dreadful player. Then when they're ranked in the Bronze or Silver ranking with people who are legitimately of that skill set, they turn up the heat and absolutely demolish them and there's nothing stopping them since it would take them so long to rank up even to the platinum rankings."

Again, Generalization. Where the hell is your evidence to backup what you're saying?

"That means bronze/silver/gold players are getting matched up with people who are actually high Diamond, Onyx, and Champion ranks which ruins the way the ranking system works for everyone else."

Um... hello? Smurfing happens in all ranks. Not just Bronze-gold. Hell, I've seen people that already have champs accounts get champs on their 2nd account in playlists such as breakout. Just because it might happen in lower ranks doesn't mean we should ignore it in the higher ranks.

"Nobody cares about smurfs in custom games or forge or anything like that, this is about matchmaking and smurfing is destructive regardless of whether or not they actively grief teammates."

Ok, where in the post that I quoted does it say that the player is referring to matchmaking? Go on, I'll wait. Also, in terms of the soft/hidden ranking system, why is it wrong for me to play infection on a second account for fun? Why is it justified for people in parties to boost for wins with nobody batting an eye towards them, but it is "not right" for people to relax on a dummy account so people don't target them due to their rank/stats? What about those players who want a clean slate in warzone to play like a person that just started out in halo? Is it wrong for them as to make a second account as well, possibly bypassing that hidden ranking system?
1. There is no generalization. You're using "smurf" and "alternate account" synonymously when they are not synonymous. A person who is labeled as a smurf means they are experienced at the game and are posing as someone who is inexperienced so that they can play with less skilled players (thus essentially looking like a god in the game). If you're using an alternate account to legitimately rank up again and experiment with how you do with a clean slate, that is not smurfing by definition.

2. How could I possibly provide evidence of that? You don't need to provide evidence to what is considered general knowledge. In the gaming world, the definition of a smurf is common knowledge, I simply applied it to how smurfs abuse the Halo 5 ranking system. Just because you don't know he difference between a smurf and a legit alternative account doesn't mean my argument is moot.

3. Again, you're using smurf synonymously with alternate account. No, you do not smurf at the Champ level or Onyx level. That literally makes no sense and completely goes against the definition of smurfing. Smurfing = highly experienced/skilled players cheating the ranking system on a new account to play with inexperienced/unskilled players. That is why I used bronze/silver rankings as examples. Players in those ranks are TYPICALLY below average skill. Not always, but usually. And again, if you're using a 2nd account to legitimately play and rank up, you, by definition, are not a smurf.

4. First off, I was responding to your post not the one you quoted. You specifically mentioned customs/forge which is why I said nobody cares if anyone smurfs in customs or forge because it makes no impact on the public portion of the game. Second, is Infection ranked or social? Social. Therefore ranks don't matter. Therefore smurfing matters far less because there is no ranking system to abuse there. Third, this entire thread is about matchmaking, not customs/forge hence my comment. And lastly, I'll state this one last time to really drive home the definition: people using alternate accounts to start over with clean slates / play legitimately are NOT smurfs. It's as simple as that. Nobody has an issue with people who use alternate accounts legitimately. They do not distort the rankings system because they are not abusing it. Unlike smurfs who deliberately try to break the ranking system so that they have a significant competitive advantage.
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Can't agree more..most of the time I'm in the middle of the pack but every once in awhile I can be #1 of the group or the anchor getting cussed at..lol that's what makes it fun
Noble 29 wrote:
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"There is no generalization."

Yea there is, and you just proved it in your first reply with smurf accounts, claiming that everyone that uses them ends up ruining MM for everyone else.

"You're using "smurf" and "alternate account" synonymously when they are not synonymous. A person who is labeled as a smurf means they are experienced at the game and are posing as someone who is inexperienced so that they can play with less skilled players (thus essentially looking like a god in the game). If you're using an alternate account to legitimately rank up again and experiment with how you do with a clean slate, that is not smurfing by definition."

Similar enough to be close enough, yes. You are matching up against those players intentionally with that new account regardless. Unless you want to be a special snowflake and ban muti-accounting entirely (which, in return, would screw over halo even more when it comes to family members and friends playing halo on the same xbox), you can't stop "gods" from playing in the lower tier playlist rankings. Someone might be amazing in warzone but absolutely suck in arena. Should they be banned for "smurfing" then? All you're doing is throwing the term "smurfing" so loosely to the point of where we might as well say it's just a bunch of people who are higher levels facing against lower levels in general.

""How could I possibly provide evidence of that?"

Statistics, gameplay experience of players who faced against said "smurfs" and the accounts in question. That's how you prove it

" You don't need to provide evidence to what is considered general knowledge. In the gaming world, the definition of a smurf is common knowledge, I simply applied it to how smurfs abuse the Halo 5 ranking system. Just because you don't know he difference between a smurf and a legit alternative account doesn't mean my argument is moot."

Never said your argument was entirely invalid, just partially. I will happily admit that the halo 5 ranking system is flawed in it's own respective. However, there are other factors to weigh in, such as parties facing up against solo player. And I know what a smurf account is, but again, you're throwing the term out so loosely that we might as well just apply it to anyone for any reason gameplay wise.

"3. Again, you're using smurf synonymously with alternate account. No, you do not smurf at the Champ level or Onyx level. That literally makes no sense and completely goes against the definition of smurfing."

What about the diamond level where you said that "Oh... smurfing can't happen there!" Make up your mind. Where do you think it can or can't happen? Stop contradicting yourself and give me a straight forward answer.

"Smurfing = highly experienced/skilled players cheating the ranking system on a new account to play with inexperienced/unskilled players. That is why I used bronze/silver rankings as examples."

So basically if you suck during those 10 placement matches, let's just say because you were warming up, and then all of a sudden you, being warmed up and all, started doing good, all while on a new account, that you're "Intentionally ruining matchmaking by sucking?" Makes no sense. Yes I know i'm using "situational" evidence, but my point still stands. If you legitimately suck/aren't good, then that's not griefing. That's just you playing poorly.

"Players in those ranks are TYPICALLY below average skill. Not always, but usually. And again, if you're using a 2nd account to legitimately play and rank up, you, by definition, are not a smurf."

Unless you legitimately aren't the best player during those 10 matches, which again, situational, but my point still stands.

"First off, I was responding to your post not the one you quoted. You specifically mentioned customs/forge which is why I said nobody cares if anyone smurfs in customs or forge because it makes no impact on the public portion of the game."
*Points to custom browser*"Second, is Infection ranked or social? Social. Therefore ranks don't matter. Therefore smurfing matters far less because there is no ranking system to abuse there."

Did I not just mention the hidden rank system? -_- come on, at the very least read, what I type. I'm not asking you to agree with me, but rather, to see it from a different point of view.

"Third, this entire thread is about matchmaking, not customs/forge hence my comment. And lastly, I'll state this one last time to really drive home the definition: people using alternate accounts to start over with clean slates / play legitimately are NOT smurfs. It's as simple as that. Nobody has an issue with people who use alternate accounts legitimately. They do not distort the rankings system because they are not abusing it. Unlike smurfs who deliberately try to break the ranking system so that they have a significant competitive advantage."

I'm not sure what "advantage" they are getting here, as none of this applies to their main account, and anyone who looks at their gameplay/screenshots will easily see that it's a smurf/second account. All they are doing is griefing, which yes, is a problem. However, if griefing is the end goal of what you are trying to stop, then why not do it entirely by disabling team killing, kicking for mass suicides (with the placement match not counting), and so on, instead of just punishing those who use 2nd accounts for destructive purposes? (or "smurfing" as you would call it)

Why not just end all of it in one swift blow, instead of punishing for X actions but allowing Y actions (X and Y being variables, of course.)
Yah it's all about the game. Everyone has their days were they suck but just keep playing spartains.
I never pay attention to the ranking because I usually only play arena to rank then I play warzone. Ital so really depends on what teammates you get as well. If you get decent players you'll probably end up doing well and vice versa. Just play to have fun but winning does help too lol
Ya I agree when ur teammates don't play well you don't play well I remember back in my reach days carrying the team. still no good match and then you get those players who kill you just cause. On the top of that they get mad when you hit them back. Or when you kill them by accident an they hunt you down like your on the opposite team lol.
My responses will be in bold italics within the quote box after I say this:

Dude, seriously you need to do a couple things here. 1) Chill out. It gets increasingly frustrating and less desirable to debate when you can literally feel someone's snarky attitude in their writing. You should write as if you're confident that you're correct, but when you're incorrect, you shouldn't keep trying to justify your original thoughts. This becomes especially evident when you can't pull tangible arguments but HAVE to resort to trying to classify hypothetical situations as evidence. 2) You need to read the post more than a few times apparently because of a lot of what you said was either irrelevant, completely ignored what I said in my response, or was completely infeasible.
Noble 29 wrote:
"There is no generalization."

Yea there is, and you just proved it in your first reply with smurf accounts, claiming that everyone that uses them ends up ruining MM for everyone else.
If you paid attention to the rest of this section, you would have seen the my definition of a smurf which is the generally accepted definition of what a smurf is in the gaming world. The term "smurf" in itself is a generalization used to describe ANY person who uses an alternative account for the SOLE PURPOSE of abusing a system to give themselves a competitive advantage."You're using "smurf" and "alternate account" synonymously when they are not synonymous. A person who is labeled as a smurf means they are experienced at the game and are posing as someone who is inexperienced so that they can play with less skilled players (thus essentially looking like a god in the game). If you're using an alternate account to legitimately rank up again and experiment with how you do with a clean slate, that is not smurfing by definition."

Similar enough to be close enough, yes. You are matching up against those players intentionally with that new account regardless. Unless you want to be a special snowflake and ban muti-accounting entirely (which, in return, would screw over halo even more when it comes to family members and friends playing halo on the same xbox), you can't stop "gods" from playing in the lower tier playlist rankings. Someone might be amazing in warzone but absolutely suck in arena. Should they be banned for "smurfing" then? All you're doing is throwing the term "smurfing" so loosely to the point of where we might as well say it's just a bunch of people who are higher levels facing against lower levels in general.
"Similar enough to be close enough"? I'm not even being rude but that literally does not make one lick of sense. There is no "loose" definition of smurfing. I told you exactly what it was. You're either choosing to ignore my provided definition because you think it makes your argument stronger, you don't have the reading comprehension skills to understand the definition, or you didn't read the definition at all. I tend to think it's the former of the 3 because clearly you are not an idiot and I assume you would read an entire post that you are responding to. Going from warzone to arena and having different skill levels has nothing to do with smurfing, so I don't see how that's relevant at all. And yes, you can stop "gods" from playing in low ranked playlists. It's called a ranking system that matches you up with people of similar skill and assigns an appropriate rank. I have never said to ban alternative accounts so please do not put words on my fingers. Yet again, I will reiterate the definition of a smurf: "Smurf- An experienced or skilled player who creates a secondary account for the sole purpose of cheating a ranking system in order to disguise himself as an inexperienced and less skilled player. Subsequently, this places him at a rank far lower than his skill level causing him to match up with other players who are vastly inferior to him, thus giving him a competitive advantage and ruining the game for his opponents."Please tell me how that's a "loose" definition..""How could I possibly provide evidence of that?"

Statistics, gameplay experience of players who faced against said "smurfs" and the accounts in question. That's how you prove it
Umm I was speaking from direct experience being someone who has faced smurfs repeatedly and also basing my judgement on posts from other users of this very forum over the past months. However, there are no statistics. This is a video game. There is no scientific research on smurf accounts. This is what I'm talking about your remarks being infeasible. This doesn't make any sense. My inability to provide stats in this instance does not strengthen your argument because it is an impossible request." You don't need to provide evidence to what is considered general knowledge. In the gaming world, the definition of a smurf is common knowledge, I simply applied it to how smurfs abuse the Halo 5 ranking system. Just because you don't know he difference between a smurf and a legit alternative account doesn't mean my argument is moot."

Never said your argument was entirely invalid, just partially. I will happily admit that the halo 5 ranking system is flawed in it's own respective. However, there are other factors to weigh in, such as parties facing up against solo player. And I know what a smurf account is, but again, you're throwing the term out so loosely that we might as well just apply it to anyone for any reason gameplay wise.
Parties playing against solo players are irrelevant to smurfing. There is also a failsafe set in place that typically parties will be matched up with other parties. It does not always work, but it is an active matchmaking function. Yes, that does somewhat alter the ranking system too, however if anything that will boost a player's rank to a higher level than they deserve, which ultimately hurts them when they search solo. It does not do a lot of harm to the people who consistently play solo and earn their rank playing by themselves. But again, you ignored my definition of a "smurf" claiming you know what it means and then tell me that it can be applied "to anyone for any reason gameplay wise" thus implying you, in fact, do not understand what a smurf is. It is not a loose definition and I did not provide a loose definition. Refer to above."3. Again, you're using smurf synonymously with alternate account. No, you do not smurf at the Champ level or Onyx level. That literally makes no sense and completely goes against the definition of smurfing."

What about the diamond level where you said that "Oh... smurfing can't happen there!" Make up your mind. Where do you think it can or can't happen? Stop contradicting yourself and give me a straight forward answer.
This is what I meant in the intro about your snarky attitude seeping through to your writing. I didn't contradict myself anywhere and I don't owe you anything. Diamond level smurfing COULD happen if there were a case of a top tier Champion being in that playlist, but again it is unlikely because it is one of the higher ranks. Onyx and Diamond skill levels are comparable where Champion and low Diamond skill levels are less comparable. This is where smurfing COULD come into play, but it is FAR FAR FAR more common that higher ranks (high diamonds, onyx, champion) smurf to achieve VERY low ranks (bronze, silver, low gold) to gain the highest competitive advantage possible.
Noble 29 wrote:
"Smurfing = highly experienced/skilled players cheating the ranking system on a new account to play with inexperienced/unskilled players. That is why I used bronze/silver rankings as examples."

So basically if you suck during those 10 placement matches, let's just say because you were warming up, and then all of a sudden you, being warmed up and all, started doing good, all while on a new account, that you're "Intentionally ruining matchmaking by sucking?" Makes no sense. Yes I know i'm using "situational" evidence, but my point still stands. If you legitimately suck/aren't good, then that's not griefing. That's just you playing poorly.
Nope. I've sucked plenty during my 10 ranking matches (this season for example) and still placed low to mid platinum simply because of my previous rankings in the playlist. I've been ranked as high as Onyx. If I was a brand new account and started out playing this way, I could've been low gold for all I know, but the game keeps history on your rank and matches you accordingly EVEN in your initial 10 games for a season. And no, this is the point you don't seem to be understanding. Using a secondary account LEGITIMATELY is NOT smurfing. If you're using it to warm up and you are legitimately playing but you're just sucking, that is not smurfing. Your intentions are to play the game as intended and not cheat the system, therefore you are not intentionally blowing games to be ranked low and then turn on the heat and demolish all opposition. If you're playing legitimately, you're not smurfing. It is not a hard concept to grasp."Players in those ranks are TYPICALLY below average skill. Not always, but usually. And again, if you're using a 2nd account to legitimately play and rank up, you, by definition, are not a smurf."

Unless you legitimately aren't the best player during those 10 matches, which again, situational, but my point still stands.
You keep saying your point stands but you're proving yourself wrong in the very same sentence by saying "I'm speaking situationally". None of my argument is hypothetical. My argument is describing exactly who smurfs are, what they do, why they do it, and how they do it. You're grasping at straws making up hypothetical situations trying to find a valid argument and it's not working. Like I said previously, your ranking per season is still impacted by previous seasons. You're not going to be Onyx season A then unintentionally suck during rankings of season B and be ranked a silver. You're still going to be ranked in an average to above average ranking because the quality of the players you matched up against during those ranking matches were better than a silver rank. This is all basic knowledge of how the Halo 5 ranking system works. You don't have a clean slate from season to season although the UI would have you think as such."First off, I was responding to your post not the one you quoted. You specifically mentioned customs/forge which is why I said nobody cares if anyone smurfs in customs or forge because it makes no impact on the public portion of the game."
*Points to custom browser*"Second, is Infection ranked or social? Social. Therefore ranks don't matter. Therefore smurfing matters far less because there is no ranking system to abuse there."

Did I not just mention the hidden rank system? -_- come on, at the very least read, what I type. I'm not asking you to agree with me, but rather, to see it from a different point of view.
Custom browser has nothing to do with anything because it is CUSTOM GAMES. They may be able to be accessed publicly now, but they don't mean anything and they have no impact whatsoever on any sort of public ranking. That is why I said they do not matter and make no impact. By "public portion" I was referring to matchmaking.AND hidden ranking systems don't function the same way as the hard, definitive system set in place in the ranked playlists therefore your argument is still invalid. The social playlists will attempt to match you up with people of similar skill level, but it does not differentiate nearly the same way as the ranked playlists do. You can get into plenty of games with teammates who are FAR inferior or FAR superior to your skill level, and it's actually pretty common."Third, this entire thread is about matchmaking, not customs/forge hence my comment. And lastly, I'll state this one last time to really drive home the definition: people using alternate accounts to start over with clean slates / play legitimately are NOT smurfs. It's as simple as that. Nobody has an issue with people who use alternate accounts legitimately. They do not distort the rankings system because they are not abusing it. Unlike smurfs who deliberately try to break the ranking system so that they have a significant competitive advantage."

I'm not sure what "advantage" they are getting here, as none of this applies to their main account, and anyone who looks at their gameplay/screenshots will easily see that it's a smurf/second account. All they are doing is griefing, which yes, is a problem. However, if griefing is the end goal of what you are trying to stop, then why not do it entirely by disabling team killing, kicking for mass suicides (with the placement match not counting), and so on, instead of just punishing those who use 2nd accounts for destructive purposes? (or "smurfing" as you would call it)
DING DING DING. THAT'S THE POINT. THEY ARE GRIEFING. THEY ARE RUINING THE GAME FOR OTHER PLAYERS BY DIRECTLY RUINING THEIR OPPONENTS' EXPERIENCE WHILE ALSO TAINTING THE RANKING SYSTEMS MAKING IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR LEGITIMATE PLAYERS TO BE RANKED AND MATCHED WITH APPROPRIATE OPPONENTS. The "advantage" they are getting is that they are playing other players who cannot possibly compete with them.Also, mass suicide and betrayals DO result in kicking from games in Halo 5 and suspension if happening to much.Removing friendly fire would open up a whole other can of problems (such as increased grenade/power weapon spamming). This has been tried in previous Halos and the response was outrage. Why not just end all of it in one swift blow, instead of punishing for X actions but allowing Y actions (X and Y being variables, of course.)
Because X is not always equal to Y and they have different levels of severity when impacting gameplay. An end-all-be-all solution is not a good way to make something balanced.
Apologies for the double post, but I was over the character count.
I always get such a crappy team that brings me down it SUCKS
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I see a lot of smurfs on the battlefield. It's not something to be gloating and boasting about, if you are a smurf, thank you for driving away Halo's population. It will be you who ultimately won't benefit from your wrongdoing.
* slow claps *
this is very true some people may not be good at certain things but are amazing at others, many players over or under estimate their own skill level based on a single game type or on how they do on a certain map, you might be great at swat on plaza, and you might not do well when you play on the rig, its not that your bad at swat, you just aren't as good or as comfortable on that map than you are others, you might not me good at 4v4 slayer games but you might be amazing at warzone and big team battle when everything is chaotic, learn your strengths and weaknesses and try to get better, you won't get anywhere if you give up because you dont do well at something you have to keep trying and practice
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