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Halo 5 pistol

OP nhojsselesu

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To be clear, the magnum doesnt need to be nerfed because every weapon serves a purpose in the sandbox. The only weapon that is now weak in comparison would be the BR. The BR could use a buff.

If everything gets nerfed, we would get weak weapons to compensate for the BR. Not gonna happen.
x N7 117 x wrote:
The majority of the players use the pistol because it fires quickly and is insanely accurate but isn't guaranteed a win.
x N7 117 x wrote:
The majority of the players use the pistol because it fires quickly and is insanely accurate but isn't guaranteed a win. No weapon is.
The thing is it's a pistol. It's not supposed to be used as a primary weapon. And most people use it as a primary weapon.
Who says it's not meant to be a primary weapon?
Ce it was,
2/3 it was the br
reach and 4 the dmr
5 its the pistol
The Halo CE pistol was OP because a change of code slightly before the release, while in Halo 5 the power it has was because of a post-release update, supposed to be a "nerfing update" to balance all the weapons and give them their respective roles (AR, BR, DMR, SMG, and every other weapon except from pistols, like boltshots, plasma pistol, and magnum, to be a promary weapon, and the pistols, the role of a pistol, a secondary weapon). Why do you think they released the CE pistol in the Req weapons?? Even in warzone at level 5 (level where you can get the CE pistol) people still use the Simple magnum, and they still win the face-to-face firefights because of the extreme accurracy and magnetism of the Halo 5 magnum, even with the 5 body-shots kill of the CE pistol
In Ce the pistol was an immediate swap.
Same as h5 magnum is an immediate swap, who cares why, the fact remains that in both their respective titles, they are your primary weapon of choice.
What i'm trying to say if they wanna make it a primary weapon go ahead but at least balance it with the other guns. Right now the pistol is the go to weapon if you wanna have a high chance of winning.
x N7 117 x wrote:
The majority of the players use the pistol because it fires quickly and is insanely accurate but isn't guaranteed a win.
x N7 117 x wrote:
The majority of the players use the pistol because it fires quickly and is insanely accurate but isn't guaranteed a win. No weapon is.
The thing is it's a pistol. It's not supposed to be used as a primary weapon. And most people use it as a primary weapon.
Who says it's not meant to be a primary weapon?
Ce it was,
2/3 it was the br
reach and 4 the dmr
5 its the pistol
The Halo CE pistol was OP because a change of code slightly before the release, while in Halo 5 the power it has was because of a post-release update, supposed to be a "nerfing update" to balance all the weapons and give them their respective roles (AR, BR, DMR, SMG, and every other weapon except from pistols, like boltshots, plasma pistol, and magnum, to be a promary weapon, and the pistols, the role of a pistol, a secondary weapon). Why do you think they released the CE pistol in the Req weapons?? Even in warzone at level 5 (level where you can get the CE pistol) people still use the Simple magnum, and they still win the face-to-face firefights because of the extreme accurracy and magnetism of the Halo 5 magnum, even with the 5 body-shots kill of the CE pistol
In Ce the pistol was an immediate swap.
Same as h5 magnum is an immediate swap, who cares why, the fact remains that in both their respective titles, they are your primary weapon of choice.
What i'm trying to say if they wanna make it a primary weapon go ahead but at least balance it with the other guns. Right now the pistol is the go to weapon if you wanna have a high chance of winning.
But it's the same thing in H2/3, with the BR , Reach with the dmr. Each title has a loadout weapon that the viable primary. If you don't like the pistol fine but otherwise I really don't understand the point your trying to make. It really doesn't matter if it's in slot 1 or 2 to be a primary it's in your starting loadout. Every title has the go to weapon H5 is no different
H4 is the exception different due to the loadout system.
x N7 117 x wrote:
The majority of the players use the pistol because it fires quickly and is insanely accurate but isn't guaranteed a win.
x N7 117 x wrote:
The majority of the players use the pistol because it fires quickly and is insanely accurate but isn't guaranteed a win. No weapon is.
The thing is it's a pistol. It's not supposed to be used as a primary weapon. And most people use it as a primary weapon.
Who says it's not meant to be a primary weapon?
Ce it was,
2/3 it was the br
reach and 4 the dmr
5 its the pistol
The Halo CE pistol was OP because a change of code slightly before the release, while in Halo 5 the power it has was because of a post-release update, supposed to be a "nerfing update" to balance all the weapons and give them their respective roles (AR, BR, DMR, SMG, and every other weapon except from pistols, like boltshots, plasma pistol, and magnum, to be a promary weapon, and the pistols, the role of a pistol, a secondary weapon). Why do you think they released the CE pistol in the Req weapons?? Even in warzone at level 5 (level where you can get the CE pistol) people still use the Simple magnum, and they still win the face-to-face firefights because of the extreme accurracy and magnetism of the Halo 5 magnum, even with the 5 body-shots kill of the CE pistol
In Ce the pistol was an immediate swap.
Same as h5 magnum is an immediate swap, who cares why, the fact remains that in both their respective titles, they are your primary weapon of choice.
What i'm trying to say if they wanna make it a primary weapon go ahead but at least balance it with the other guns. Right now the pistol is the go to weapon if you wanna have a high chance of winning.
But it's the same thing in H2/3, with the BR , Reach with the dmr. Each title has a loadout weapon that the viable primary. If you don't like the pistol fine but otherwise I really don't understand the point your trying to make. It really doesn't matter if it's in slot 1 or 2 to be a primary it's in your starting loadout. Every title has the go to weapon H5 is no different
H4 is the exception different due to the loadout system.
My point is i want it to be balanced with the rest of the guns because it outperforms them.
x N7 117 x wrote:
The majority of the players use the pistol because it fires quickly and is insanely accurate but isn't guaranteed a win.
x N7 117 x wrote:
The majority of the players use the pistol because it fires quickly and is insanely accurate but isn't guaranteed a win. No weapon is.
The thing is it's a pistol. It's not supposed to be used as a primary weapon. And most people use it as a primary weapon.
Who says it's not meant to be a primary weapon?
Ce it was,
2/3 it was the br
reach and 4 the dmr
5 its the pistol
The Halo CE pistol was OP because a change of code slightly before the release, while in Halo 5 the power it has was because of a post-release update, supposed to be a "nerfing update" to balance all the weapons and give them their respective roles (AR, BR, DMR, SMG, and every other weapon except from pistols, like boltshots, plasma pistol, and magnum, to be a promary weapon, and the pistols, the role of a pistol, a secondary weapon). Why do you think they released the CE pistol in the Req weapons?? Even in warzone at level 5 (level where you can get the CE pistol) people still use the Simple magnum, and they still win the face-to-face firefights because of the extreme accurracy and magnetism of the Halo 5 magnum, even with the 5 body-shots kill of the CE pistol
In Ce the pistol was an immediate swap.
Same as h5 magnum is an immediate swap, who cares why, the fact remains that in both their respective titles, they are your primary weapon of choice.
What i'm trying to say if they wanna make it a primary weapon go ahead but at least balance it with the other guns. Right now the pistol is the go to weapon if you wanna have a high chance of winning.
But it's the same thing in H2/3, with the BR , Reach with the dmr. Each title has a loadout weapon that the viable primary. If you don't like the pistol fine but otherwise I really don't understand the point your trying to make. It really doesn't matter if it's in slot 1 or 2 to be a primary it's in your starting loadout. Every title has the go to weapon H5 is no different
H4 is the exception different due to the loadout system.
My point is i want it to be balanced with the rest of the guns because it outperforms them.
I'm pretty comfortable with where it's at and more importantly 343i is as well .
Will 343 ever do anything about the pistol? I noticed that halo 5 has a lot of guns but everyone just uses the pistol and it's annoying because i would rather use other guns to win.
I like the pistol but I still use other weapons. I like the extended range you get with the BR or DMR and up close the AR is effective. I use the pistol mostly at mid range encounters. I kinda want the Halo CE pistol since they have a REQ for the Halo 2 BR.
I hate the H5 Mag. It's a straight laser. It's too good. AND, it's a pistol. I know, I KNOW CEs weapon was the Magnum, but the CE weapon sandbox was fun yes, but trash for anything other than totally casual crazy play (which I like btw.) How can it make sense that a pistol is better than rifles? yeah it's a game, but by that logic a Gungoose can be stronger than a Scorpion and that make total sense and you would be foolish to say that it's not right. Make the utility gun a full size weapon, or don't make a utility weapon. CE was made when Bungie were noobs (great noobs) at making games. Why didn't they make Reach's utility a pistol huh? yeah.

I hate that that's the only real true viable gun. Why even have any other gun? People say that a large sandbox just makes the game complex and bloated. But I disagree. Just like previous games were annoying with the fact it was BR or bust, this game tends to be Magnum or bust. After 5 freakin' years, I wanna use something else other than the magnum to play Halo. There's a whole mess of things to say as to why the Halo 5 Magnum is a problem, but that's the one I'm going to write about in this comment. I would HATE to see the Magnum being this OP in Infinite.
The pistol is really fun to use but you are probably right.
Do you know if 343 will ever make a change for it?
I'm not sure
Will 343 ever do anything about the pistol? I noticed that halo 5 has a lot of guns but everyone just uses the pistol and it's annoying because i would rather use other guns to win.
No and thats ok
SouLxZoMB wrote:
I hate the H5 Mag. It's a straight laser. It's too good. AND, it's a pistol. I know, I KNOW CEs weapon was the Magnum, but the CE weapon sandbox was fun yes, but trash for anything other than totally casual crazy play (which I like btw.) How can it make sense that a pistol is better than rifles? yeah it's a game, but by that logic a Gungoose can be stronger than a Scorpion and that make total sense and you would be foolish to say that it's not right. Make the utility gun a full size weapon, or don't make a utility weapon. CE was made when Bungie were noobs (great noobs) at making games. Why didn't they make Reach's utility a pistol huh? yeah.

I hate that that's the only real true viable gun. Why even have any other gun? People say that a large sandbox just makes the game complex and bloated. But I disagree. Just like previous games were annoying with the fact it was BR or bust, this game tends to be Magnum or bust. After 5 freakin' years, I wanna use something else other than the magnum to play Halo. There's a whole mess of things to say as to why the Halo 5 Magnum is a problem, but that's the one I'm going to write about in this comment. I would HATE to see the Magnum being this OP in Infinite.
Halo has always been 1 utility pistol dominating the sandbox, adapat and stop crying or go play cod
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I'm guilty at using the pistol as well, but I try to get better with the other weapons available. Sometimes using the pistol bores me.
Magnum is a fun weapon and really skillful due to the small crosshair, however in H5 its accuracy and rate of fire just outclasses the rest of the sandbox that's placed on the map (besides power weapons, obviously), making picking them up pointless unless you're lucky or are using it in the right situation (given that you know the functionality of most weapons, which was recently changed).

To begin with, I've never understood that concept. Sure, a utility starting weapon is important, but it being even better than most of the actual equipment in the map (not to mention the disparity with the AR, which was pretty good and then saw its efectiveness extremely decreased, even with headshots) and the only one that gets used is detrimental, sad and makes the weapons balance speak for itself. I know older Halos were like that, but does that necessarily mean they were accurately balanced? I don't think so as a BR, CE Magnum or DMR could do the majority of the tasks and outperform the rest of guns quite easily (not in a skillfull way, a BR can just kill a SMG in H2C standing still and static... and the same applies to CE Pistol vs AR).

That said, as some people pointed out in this thread and older ones, H4 got some automatic weapons and Covenant/Forerunner buffs here and there, achieveing an overall more or less right balance, taking into account armor abilities, the possibilities of loadouts and the number of weapons and grenades (the Forerunner one being useless, though). Halo 5 carried over those right decisions and improved them by removing that concept of "take the BR/DMR/Magnum and kill everything quickly and easily", also buffing map pickups slightly so that there was a point to take them and to control the correct spots and gun spawn places. In addition, this didn't mean the starting weapons were bad; nothing is further away from reality, AR was the best version in close to mid encounters, and Magnum could compete with the BR (denying the old complains, as if you were quick and you strafed you could easily win the fight).

Finally, I'd like to state that the last H5 update tweaked the balance and RUINED it, at least in my opinion, as the whole sandbox got nerfs everywhere, except the Magnum to return to those old roots of "take the current utility weapon and outperform everything quite easily and without worrying about getting or fighting for anything". The most notable parts are the SMG, the new AR, the nerfed Carbine/BR or the Gunfighter Magnum. Furthermore, eventually Ranked playlists and balance screwed up as Objective got overweighted Slayer and HCS only settings, paired with a huge imbalance in ranks/skill matching, no actual H5 identity (no spartan charge, no thrusters, no ground pound and so on) and Magnum only starts (just got rid of the AR, it was useless anyways nowadays). Personally, I think it's time to erase those changes completely and go back to a beautifully and carefully balanced sandbox. Or at least in Halo Infinite. Come on, the game is begging for some support since MCC got the lead... Personal skill must be the main objective and not the current OP weapon.

Link --> "Old thoughts and possible fixes"
I have a forever rage of the Halo 5 pistol of a thousand suns of how damn annoying it is. 5 bullets? It takes that many to kill a Red Panda like me!!
I'd say it's a good gun to have. The 5 shots makes it one of the higher damage weapons in the game. It's definitely the most useful weapon in the game but there are situations where other weapons outshine it.

It should also be noted that while the magnum is a 3 shot melee, 5 shot perfect, and 8 shot max to kill. This is is important to understand as most weapons you pick up, including the DMR, Lightrifle, BR, and Boltshot, are a 2 shot melee kill, making them better in close quarters.
The game's 4 years old and the meta's been established. I can't imagine them changing the game so drastically this late in.
Every Halo title has had a main utility weapon so to speak. It's usually been the BR but H5 it's the pistol. Actually one thing 343 really did well with in H5 is the weapon balance as other weapons are very useful in the right time and places, especially compared to previous titles where if you didn't have a BR you were screwed. It was nice to see the AR finally be some what useful in multiplayer.
LethalQ wrote:
Every Halo title has had a main utility weapon so to speak. It's usually been the BR but H5 it's the pistol. Actually one thing 343 really did well with in H5 is the weapon balance as other weapons are very useful in the right time and places, especially compared to previous titles where if you didn't have a BR you were screwed. It was nice to see the AR finally be some what useful in multiplayer.
That was right... before the big balance update, where the BR, which is a map pickup got nerfed, aswell as the SMG, making them non-viable options against the spawning weapons. Moreover, the AR reticle, range and damage output was decreased strongly so that it could only compete in close range (also in a risky way due to the spread agains a Pistol, something you started with too).

The only gun that remained untouched was the Magnum, making BR, Carbine and DMR useless outside of their meant ranges, and even then the pistol is really fast and accurate. The adjusted Gunfighter pistol is currently awful too. To be honest, the only decent precision weapon pickup right now is the Light Rifle; slightly more powerful than your starting weapons so that you have a point to take it. I think personal skill, map knowledge and weapon control (not just the power ones, equipment improving is also important, skillfull and tactic based, in a way that encourages teamwork) should be the main player task and not the current overpowered starting Pistol/BR/DMR (which was fairly balanced with Reach's bloom, at least in my opinion) overuse so that he can actually win constantly.

As I see it and many other who share my opinion, there's only one way to fix this; either nerf a bit Magnum fire rate or make it 6-shot, so that despite the fact that the rest of the sandbox was nerfed, they'll still have their role and will be able to perform their tasks better and efficiently, also offering some reward by getting and controlling their spawn spots. Then, buff the SMG again to be deadly in close range (as for balancing issues, Shotgun/Sword are clearly more powerful and it must offer some advantages so that you think about replacing your AR with it). Storm Rifle is fine in my opinion, though. Remember that while older games had a utility weapon, that doesn't mean the concept was properly implemented as like you said, it was pickup the BR or you're going to screw up eventually; right now it's partially the same in H5.

Quote:
The game's 4 years old and the meta's been established. I can't imagine them changing the game so drastically this late in.
Yes, that's true, but the Title Update/Weapons Tweak Update also came like 2 years after the launch of even more. It's never late to fix a game, unless you're leaving said improvements for the next Halo, which are undoubtedly necessary, just like giving Objective its ranked playlist back (with Slayer low weighted to keep it alive) and balancing matches correctly again (although it's a paradise if compared with MCC skill matching, which is constantly improving, for instance with the 2v2 Party matching feature), like in the past. If MCC can change after 4 years, why doesn't Halo 5? Hopefully they'll return after Reach addition and don't leave it in the loose ends.
The Halo 5 magnum does nothing that previous utility weapons haven't done before, there are just even more redundant clone weapons than ever before.

You can fix fundamental design flaws by just tweaking some weapon values, eventually the best variant is going to float to the top. Despite all weapons being generally lethal, basically none of them have anything to offer that can't be found in another near identical weapon. And no, being marginally better at marginally different ranges doesn't count.

Without radical changes to how weapons in the sandbox function that is never going to change now matter how many balance updates you have, if not the Magnum then it would be something else and spawning with a sub par weapon that is outclassed by a pickup weapon doing the exact same job isn't an option.

Weapon choice can't be a matter of pure upgrades or merely for the sake of superficial "VaRiEtY." It should be based on more than which interchangeable utility weapon or bullet hose is prettier.

TL;DR Whining about the Magnum is a shallow waste of time when the shallow clone filled sandbox has always been the real problem since Halo 2.
WerepyreND wrote:
The Halo 5 magnum does nothing that previous utility weapons haven't done before, there are just even more redundant clone weapons than ever before.

You can fix fundamental design flaws by just tweaking some weapon values, eventually the best variant is going to float to the top. Despite all weapons being generally lethal, basically none of them have anything to offer that can't be found in another near identical weapon. And no, being marginally better at marginally different ranges doesn't count.

Without radical changes to how weapons in the sandbox function that is never going to change now matter how many balance updates you have, if not the Magnum then it would be something else and spawning with a sub par weapon that is outclassed by a pickup weapon doing the exact same job isn't an option.

Weapon choice can't be a matter of pure upgrades or merely for the sake of superficial "VaRiEtY." It should be based on more than which interchangeable utility weapon or bullet hose is prettier.

TL;DR Whining about the Magnum is a shallow waste of time when the shallow clone filled sandbox has always been the real problem since Halo 2.
Well, to begin with, I'll repeat the same again; using older games as an argument to change an already functional and balanced gameplay doesn't make it truthful. The old concept was flawed in some parts; the reason might be the amount of "cloned" weapon as you said, paired with a too strong utility weapon start that made it pointless to pick up another weapon from the scenary unless it was a power one or you run out of ammo and had no chance. Usually dual wielding also failed to fill its purpose which made it unpopular and exclusively close range based unless you had strong coordination and knowledge of the best combos. Even energy guns had problems outside of their meant range, while your starting weapon was capable of fighting everything in all scenarios quite easily if you knew how to do it (with a bit of skill and luck, of course). So, as I see it the old sandbox balance isn't anything reliable in the first place.

It's true that if you tweak the sandbox, something is gonna float to the top. I see your point, and it's easy to see in the old H5 balance too; the BR was constantly complained about, and then developers decided to nerf nearly everything except the Magnum, so that the pistol now had that OP/really useful place. In my opinion the only thing that need to be changed slightly was the BR, the Magnum was fine in the old sandbox and there was no point on nerfing the AR range and damage capabilities (it even struggles up close due to the spread and inconsistences), the SMG for that matter (given that Shotgun completely outclasses it), the Storm Rifle (although it's somewhat fine right now) and the Carbine. I'd even argue that the BR got too much of a nerf; it's a weapon that's in on the map after all, so it needs to be slightly better than your current weapons OR offer something mechanically different while having similar power, as you said. Whether you think it's a valuable weapon upgrade or not if you take similar weapons but with slightly more power is entirely subjective, just like this thoughts. A "clone" can still be meant for some ranges and be good for that purpose and some gameplay tactics, so as long as you have a point to upgrade your current weapon it doesn't necessarily have to offer an extremely different mechanic, at least in my opinion and that's without mentioning that you're looking for a gun that performs the same task but with something different, not a radical change in gameplay. You just need one of the two conditions. This is why someone prefers a Carbine over a BR even in the most balanced and old scenaries.

Furthermore, variety is not the point here. Sure, nerfing the Magnum or going back to old weapons (before the update) with a recently tweaked BR can help with that, but variety eventually increases when health is the major feature of the sandbox. That's why the majority of the guns are still getting used despite being very similar in their roles, only the SMG, AR, Gunfighter Magnum and BR are getting underused and overlooked during most matches. The sandbox is still really accurate and even in most cases, so it just needs small tweaks such as the ones I mentioned before. Moreover, I've not seen any post in this thread that points directly to which gun is prettier, that's pretty pointless in my opinion as the main purpose of picking up another weapon is upgrading your weapon with one of the same role but with a bit more of damage/rate of fire/precision depending on your preferences. Obviously, a different or new mechanic is something to look at but it's not currently possible with this sandbox, and again you're looking for similar roles and functionality. And why is a good weapon still a bullet hose? Never saw a complaint like that in the older H5 meta.

To sum up, personally, I think going back to the old balance where the sandbox was pretty balanced is the best and easiest decision. As for clone weapons, let Halo Infinite fix that flaws, as I see it the guns can still hold their own right now without featuring radical changes. My point for a sandbox to work is just healthiness and usefulness, paired with a strong but not too much utility weapon + a reliable auto start (such as the old H5 AR, a deadlier version) and slightly buffed guns/mechanically different if possible in the scenary (you need a point to pick them up, control their spawn spots and to use strategies to take them). Currently, I think the only precision weapon that fits that conditions is the Light Rifle, given the amount of power the Pistol has right now. And having to fight against a team of 4 that has the whole upgraded weapons, given the worst and unusual situation, then trying to steal them needs plenty of tactics, and that means skillful matches. As soon as one of them dies, the balance returns, from another point of view.
WerepyreND wrote:
The Halo 5 magnum does nothing that previous utility weapons haven't done before, there are just even more redundant clone weapons than ever before.

You can fix fundamental design flaws by just tweaking some weapon values, eventually the best variant is going to float to the top. Despite all weapons being generally lethal, basically none of them have anything to offer that can't be found in another near identical weapon. And no, being marginally better at marginally different ranges doesn't count.

Without radical changes to how weapons in the sandbox function that is never going to change now matter how many balance updates you have, if not the Magnum then it would be something else and spawning with a sub par weapon that is outclassed by a pickup weapon doing the exact same job isn't an option.

Weapon choice can't be a matter of pure upgrades or merely for the sake of superficial "VaRiEtY." It should be based on more than which interchangeable utility weapon or bullet hose is prettier.

TL;DR Whining about the Magnum is a shallow waste of time when the shallow clone filled sandbox has always been the real problem since Halo 2.
snip
The specifics of how Halo 5 should be balanced or whether certain aspects of the patch were good/bad were not really the concern of my post.

My main point was that the complaints about the Magnum are hyperbolic at best, especially if anyone bothers to look up how the post patch balance actually shakes out. Complaining about people using the primary utility weapon frequently in a Halo game only goes to show that they don't actually understand how Halo works and where the actual problems lie.

If you want people to pick up other non-power weapons you have to give them a reason that isn't simply "this pickup weapon is statistically better" because that leads to dull snowballing matches just like SMG starts in Halo 2 and AR starts in Halo 3/Reach.

So just to say it again for the folks in the back: Players using the Magnum a lot is a feature not a bug. Any lack of variety is an issue with parts of the sandbox being poorly designed, like many of them have been since 2004.
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