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Halo 5 pistol

OP nhojsselesu

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We have to adapt to the changes, but I still prefer the BR and DMR
WerepyreND wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
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The specifics of how Halo 5 should be balanced or whether certain aspects of the patch were good/bad were not really the concern of my post.

My main point was that the complaints about the Magnum are hyperbolic at best, especially if anyone bothers to look up how the post patch balance actually shakes out. Complaining about people using the primary utility weapon frequently in a Halo game only goes to show that they don't actually understand how Halo works and where the actual problems lie.

If you want people to pick up other non-power weapons you have to give them a reason that isn't simply "this pickup weapon is statistically better" because that leads to dull snowballing matches just like SMG starts in Halo 2 and AR starts in Halo 3/Reach.

So just to say it again for the folks in the back: Players using the Magnum a lot is a feature not a bug. Any lack of variety is an issue with parts of the sandbox being poorly designed, like many of them have been since 2004.
I see. I was just trying to say that while the Magnum performed the same in the past, the non-power weapons still could hold their own a bit outside of their meant ranges, aswell as the AR which is another spawning weapon to begin with. I don't even complain about it being used so much; it's certainly your best bet if you're against anything as it's an utility weapon that kept its functionality despite the rest of the sandbox getting nerfed. You'd be in a disadvantage if you didn't use it.

I wouldn't even nerf the Magnum as it is quite skillful and remembers of old metas in Halo CE, just go back to the last H5 state where every weapon was somewhat useful, I agree that design wise they're like clones because they're just statistically different and with a few tweaks and skin, but again at last they were usable and offered different strategies or purposes (a feature that got enhanced with the balance update, like the DMR, but in a bad way for guns like the BR which is useless right now, as I see it). Like I said before, guns in the scenary being mechanically different (which keeps balance) is only another way to make people pick them up sometimes, simply like having similar weapons that perform the same role but with something different or some buff that makes that player choose it over the current one. The best option would be to combine them in the future Halos; like having for instance a Plasma Rifle that stuns enemies and then a Brute variant that lacks that stun but destroys shields quicker.

As for the snowball effect, I can understand what you're trying to say but having to fight said enemies also make you think a bit out of the box and work as a team to steal that better weapon, so that you get advantages again. It's a concept that never ensures your win as a bit of tactics and skill can outperform the enemies (given the worst situation where you and your mates are left with no upgrades available), which spells in constant balance reverses, where focus, strategies and map control actually count as match results factors. In addition, a bit off topic; the same can be applied to SMG/AR starts in my opinion, but it would be miles better with Silenced SMG and Pistol (in the case of H2A), which offer some range capabilities and headshots since the start. Having a gun that can outperform everything (which is not as much of an issue in H5 as it was in the past) if used correctly also removes an element of competitiveness and adds another one that opens space for BR starts, in my opinion. That's why both of them have a purpose.
WerepyreND wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
(snip)
snip
The specifics of how Halo 5 should be balanced or whether certain aspects of the patch were good/bad were not really the concern of my post.

My main point was that the complaints about the Magnum are hyperbolic at best, especially if anyone bothers to look up how the post patch balance actually shakes out. Complaining about people using the primary utility weapon frequently in a Halo game only goes to show that they don't actually understand how Halo works and where the actual problems lie.

If you want people to pick up other non-power weapons you have to give them a reason that isn't simply "this pickup weapon is statistically better" because that leads to dull snowballing matches just like SMG starts in Halo 2 and AR starts in Halo 3/Reach.

So just to say it again for the folks in the back: Players using the Magnum a lot is a feature not a bug. Any lack of variety is an issue with parts of the sandbox being poorly designed, like many of them have been since 2004.
I see. I was just trying to say that while the Magnum performed the same in the past, the non-power weapons still could hold their own a bit outside of their meant ranges, aswell as the AR which is another spawning weapon to begin with. I don't even complain about it being used so much; it's certainly your best bet if you're against anything as it's an utility weapon that kept its functionality despite the rest of the sandbox getting nerfed. You'd be in a disadvantage if you didn't use it.
See, I'm not convinced that other non-power weapons can't still hold there own when used properly. The actual statistics of the tuning update don't really back up that assertion outside of the BR.
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I wouldn't even nerf the Magnum as it is quite skillful and remembers of old metas in Halo CE, just go back to the last H5 state where every weapon was somewhat useful, I agree that design wise they're like clones because they're just statistically different and with a few tweaks and skin, but again at last they were usable and offered different strategies or purposes (a feature that got enhanced with the balance update, like the DMR, but in a bad way for guns like the BR which is useless right now, as I see it). Like I said before, guns in the scenary being mechanically different (which keeps balance) is only another way to make people pick them up sometimes, simply like having similar weapons that perform the same role but with something different or some buff that makes that player choose it over the current one. The best option would be to combine them in the future Halos; like having for instance a Plasma Rifle that stuns enemies and then a Brute variant that lacks that stun but destroys shields quicker.
I suppose I spoke too early regarding nerfs to the Pistol, because the Pistol could use a nerf to aim assist and magnetism, most things in the Halo 5 sandbox could use that actually. And again, I can agree that the BR is not in a great place, but outside of that one example the other weapons that were adjusted by the tuning still match or surpass the Magnum when used optimally as do others that were not touched. So I would like someone to explain to me why the Magnum is somehow an outlier.

Also, the problem with you example of using both the Plasma Rifle and Brute Plasma Rifle is that at the end of the day dev time an resources are not unlimited and the gains are minimal compared to adding a different weapon that does tread on existing ground, but I digress as that seems like more of a discussion for another thread.
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As for the snowball effect, I can understand what you're trying to say but having to fight said enemies also make you think a bit out of the box and work as a team to steal that better weapon, so that you get advantages again. It's a concept that never ensures your win as a bit of tactics and skill can outperform the enemies (given the worst situation where you and your mates are left with no upgrades available), which spells in constant balance reverses, where focus, strategies and map control actually count as match results factors. In addition, a bit off topic; the same can be applied to SMG/AR starts in my opinion, but it would be miles better with Silenced SMG and Pistol (in the case of H2A), which offer some range capabilities and headshots since the start. Having a gun that can outperform everything (which is not as much of an issue in H5 as it was in the past) if used correctly also removes an element of competitiveness and adds another one that opens space for BR starts, in my opinion. That's why both of them have a purpose.
"Clever Tactics" cut both ways. Enemy players are just as likely to be as tricky as you are, but without having a versatile weapon off spawn your "clever tactics" are inherently limited and far more easily countered and exploited by your opponents. Overcoming deficits can be the source of some amazing moments, but just having a hypothetical chance isn't enough to make it realistic chance. Success has to depend on player skill, not just enemy mistakes.

The way Halo is built demands versatility in a way that traditional Arena shooters just don't. The thing is we don't really have to choose, in this case we can have our cake and eat it too. We can have a powerful utility weapon on off spawn who's effectiveness is tempered by a high skill gap that is backed by a visually and mechanically diverse sandbox that can hold their own when used effectively. Throw in some sensible skill based MM and there would never be any reason to even other with auto only starts. All the ingredients for that game already exist, a lot of it is just spread out across different Halo games.
I find it just fine.

Pistols are more close encounters weapons, they are quite different depending on which one you use (the regular one is just perfect, the second one has faster fire rate but a bit less precise, the third one offers a silencer and a scope to the detriment of fire rate)

Battle Riffle and DMR are more appreciable in long distance battles (Actually i find the BR2 a bit disadvantaged in front of the DMR)

If i face some one with a pistol i am doing just fine with my Halo2 BR. (no need to swap)

You can still use power weapons if you feel disadvantaged (like lvl 2/3 Needler, lvl3 supressor which is a beast, or even scattershots)
WerepyreND wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
See, I'm not convinced that other non-power weapons can't still hold there own when used properly. The actual statistics of the tuning update don't really back up that assertion outside of the BR.
True, I was certainly referring more to the stronger likelihood of getting a kill with those non-power weapons outside of their meant range against the Pistol in the past, which can compete at all ranges (obviously specialized in middle). The Assault Rifle (spawning weapon too) is the perfect example for that, aswell as the SMG which is pickable (might be in the future dual-wieldable so that you get a different mechanic). And as you said, the BR even when used properly and where it's supposed to do, doesn't always work.

My point here is that now that weapons work at their intented range (excluding the BR which could use a buff maybe), then if we're not gonna reverse balance changes, Pistol should be nerfed accordingly (for instance, bullet magnetism just like they did with the DMR but for mid range and a slightly nerf for fire rate if you don't wanna buff BR). That way, you end up with a utility spawn pack that relies in both guns and is not limited to one: the AR for close range (maybe increase reticle size again and a buff damage a bit) and the Magnum for mid (and more or less capable of going against long and close as we didn't destroy it, but more unlikely).
WerepyreND wrote:
I suppose I spoke too early regarding nerfs to the Pistol, because the Pistol could use a nerf to aim assist and magnetism, most things in the Halo 5 sandbox could use that actually. And again, I can agree that the BR is not in a great place, but outside of that one example the other weapons that were adjusted by the tuning still match or surpass the Magnum when used optimally as do others that were not touched. So I would like someone to explain to me why the Magnum is somehow an outlier.

Also, the problem with you example of using both the Plasma Rifle and Brute Plasma Rifle is that at the end of the day dev time an resources are not unlimited and the gains are minimal compared to adding a different weapon that does tread on existing ground, but I digress as that seems like more of a discussion for another thread.
The problem with the Magnum is that itself is a useful and well implemented weapon, ideally it wouldn't need to be nerfed ever; its kill time and capabilities against the rest of the sandbox are somewhat senseful and more balanced than previous titles. As I said before, I'd just clarify its role a bit more or barely nerf its fire rate to allow other weapons in their intented ranges to outperform it in an easier way and to be able to at least compete a bit outside of it, because as soon as you get out of that range you can be screwed by a headshot weapon without bloom, spread or recoil (unlike the other precision weapons in map). You end up with a similar balance to before the update, so that's why I suggested it as the easier step.

As for the guns example, I don't think it's as much of an issue, currently Halo 5 have the biggest amount of clones to begin with, just go to Warzone and see AR variants. But if we can save resources for better features while preserving a good and mechanically different sandbox, then it can be omitted. Honestly, I don't want it to raise the amount of H5 WZ variants.
WerepyreND wrote:
"Clever Tactics" cut both ways. Enemy players are just as likely to be as tricky as you are, but without having a versatile weapon off spawn your "clever tactics" are inherently limited and far more easily countered and exploited by your opponents. Overcoming deficits can be the source of some amazing moments, but just having a hypothetical chance isn't enough to make it realistic chance. Success has to depend on player skill, not just enemy mistakes.

The way Halo is built demands versatility in a way that traditional Arena shooters just don't. The thing is we don't really have to choose, in this case we can have our cake and eat it too. We can have a powerful utility weapon on off spawn who's effectiveness is tempered by a high skill gap that is backed by a visually and mechanically diverse sandbox that can hold their own when used effectively. Throw in some sensible skill based MM and there would never be any reason to even other with auto only starts. All the ingredients for that game already exist, a lot of it is just spread out across different Halo games.
I agree that clever tactics can be used by the enemies too, but what about when you're against a team that gets all power weapons? The situation is similar whether you spawn with Autos or Pistols/BR (obviously better) and the opposite team still has more options and you're clearly in deficit. The enemies can exploit you in the same way. So personally I think non-power weapons could have similar purposes while being worse than the energy ones (which rarely feature more than 4 in the map). Numbers would balance them (but again if you have a mechanically different sandbox you already have a point to pick up weapons, they don't have to be somehow better, you just need one condition). And of course enemy mistakes is a factor too (wouldn't that be like outskilling someone?).

Versatility is important, I agree, but with some limits. As long as you have proper skill matching, like you said, any loadout could work to be honest, even auto starts for that matter due to the even matches (but let's keep this topic for another discussion).
WerepyreND wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
See, I'm not convinced that other non-power weapons can't still hold there own when used properly. The actual statistics of the tuning update don't really back up that assertion outside of the BR.
True, I was certainly referring more to the stronger likelihood of getting a kill with those non-power weapons outside of their meant range against the Pistol in the past, which can compete at all ranges (obviously specialized in middle). The Assault Rifle (spawning weapon too) is the perfect example for that, aswell as the SMG which is pickable (might be in the future dual-wieldable so that you get a different mechanic). And as you said, the BR even when used properly and where it's supposed to do, doesn't always work.

My point here is that now that weapons work at their intented range (excluding the BR which could use a buff maybe), then if we're not gonna reverse balance changes, Pistol should be nerfed accordingly (for instance, bullet magnetism just like they did with the DMR but for mid range and a slightly nerf for fire rate if you don't wanna buff BR). That way, you end up with a utility spawn pack that relies in both guns and is not limited to one: the AR for close range (maybe increase reticle size again and a buff damage a bit) and the Magnum for mid (and more or less capable of going against long and close as we didn't destroy it, but more unlikely).
I'd honestly rather just buff the BR to the point that it is effectively equal to the Pistol, given that the sandbox is unlikely to have any radical overhauls, at this point it is probably just simpler to keep it as a simple preference rather than trying to slot it into a tiny niche between the DMR and Magnum. Rather than any specific changes to the Magnum in terms of AA/Magnetism, I think across the board reductions would be ideal for both the Magnum and most weapons in the sandbox. As for the AR this is part of the problem with having so many weapons sandwiched so close together. If the AR becomes a close range weapon compared to the Pistol, then where does that leave the SMG? I think the AR is on the right path given how they are incentivising headshots compared to the full auto spray of the SMG.
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WerepyreND wrote:
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As for the guns example, I don't think it's as much of an issue, currently Halo 5 have the biggest amount of clones to begin with, just go to Warzone and see AR variants. But if we can save resources for better features while preserving a good and mechanically different sandbox, then it can be omitted. Honestly, I don't want it to raise the amount of H5 WZ variants.
I don't care for the amount of Warzone variants either, but the same principal still applies, however large the sandbox is, it is the devs time and resources is still better spent creating new and unique weapons rather the reskins with marginal value. DLC maybe, but not the core sandbox.
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WerepyreND wrote:
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I agree that clever tactics can be used by the enemies too, but what about when you're against a team that gets all power weapons? The situation is similar whether you spawn with Autos or Pistols/BR (obviously better) and the opposite team still has more options and you're clearly in deficit. The enemies can exploit you in the same way. So personally I think non-power weapons could have similar purposes while being worse than the energy ones (which rarely feature more than 4 in the map). Numbers would balance them (but again if you have a mechanically different sandbox you already have a point to pick up weapons, they don't have to be somehow better, you just need one condition). And of course enemy mistakes is a factor too (wouldn't that be like outskilling someone?).

Versatility is important, I agree, but with some limits. As long as you have proper skill matching, like you said, any loadout could work to be honest, even auto starts for that matter due to the even matches (but let's keep this topic for another discussion).
Power weapons are indeed, well, powerful, but like most other things in the sandbox they have clear weaknesses that can be exploited when they are well designed. You can't outshoot a rocket launcher/shotgun/sword/hammer at close range with an auto weapon, and you can't effectively ward off ranged weapons like the Sniper and close the distance either. A versatile weapon like certain Pistols and the BR give you that fighting chance that auto weapons just don't barring massive enemy incompetence.

The enemy securing power weapons puts you at a deficit to be sure, but when you spawn with a versatile weapon it is far from an insurmountable one.

Halo just isn't built to work with just any loadout off spawn regardless of how well balanced the sandbox. Relative to other Arena shooters, Halo is relatively slow with console friendly levels of aim assist and magnetism that tends toward higher player count team based gameplay. Players just flat out don't have the ability to maneuver there way out of unfavorable respawns like you might see in something like quake. Halo demands accuracy in a way most shooters don't, a great accuracy rate in other games lands is often somewhere in the 15-20% range whereas in Halo a good(not even great) rate is somewhere in the ~50% range. The odds are just not in your favor that your average player is going to be able to survive engagements where they can't effectively fight back.

I'm not saying that players should be carrying the utility weapon at all times, only that the clever tactics and use of niche weapons come into play after you can make sure you're not going to get killed before you have a change to get your bearings. It is much more difficult for the enemy to predict what you are going to do when you start off with a versatile weapon and specialize from there compared to when you start out with a niche weapon and are guaranteed to have limited options for some amount of time.

That uncertainty is what gives you the opportunity to truly utilize some "clever tactics" to get yourself back on the board.
Yea the pistol is a lil bit op I just think there happy with how the game is now so they probably won't make any other major changes
The Halo 5 weapons were all so balanced until they did the weapon tuning update. The game was at an ideal state and then they just had to screw with it and in effect ruined the balance it had.
WerepyreND wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
Fair enough, you've convinced me, very good points as for why Halo should keep utility starts (BR/Pistol/DMR whatever) strong. As for the SMG, maybe in Infinite it becomes dual-wieldable so that it gets something mechanically different to the AR (if they're both in the game). Let's just buff the BR this time, seeing that everyone agrees with, which is easier. And maybe an overall bullet magnetism decrease as you said.
The trick to Halo 5 is to master the Pistol and the Battle Rifle because those are the weapons opponents complain about the most. If you would like more tips, join our Spartan Company: https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/spartan-companies/sophisticate
We've got over 40+ active members who have mics and party up with one another to get win streaks on Team Slayer, Swat, and Elimination!
Arena:

The magnum is prevalent in arena for an array of reasons. In terms of the maps found within arena, they accommodate the magnum really well as it has the range, accuracy, fire rate and time to kill. The magnum being probably the most well rounded and balanced gun in the game, of course people will use it in a competitive environment such as arena.

Warzone:

The magnum in warzone despite being a great weapon, especially the tactical varient, can be countered fairly easily. Carbines at the start of the game are more game changing then the magnum will ever be and in late game a lot of players swap the mag and ar for a H2 BR and DMR due to these providing both great close range, mid range and long range capability. Even the normal BR with stabilisation jets can go head to head with magnum due to its complete lack of recoil.

So at the end of the day, seeing as the magnum being so meta is annoying you. Play warzone instead of arena because you are sure to find a greater variety in weapons there then you will ever find in arena.
x N7 117 x wrote:
The majority of the players use the pistol because it fires quickly and is insanely accurate but isn't guaranteed a win.
x N7 117 x wrote:
The majority of the players use the pistol because it fires quickly and is insanely accurate but isn't guaranteed a win. No weapon is.
The thing is it's a pistol. It's not supposed to be used as a primary weapon. And most people use it as a primary weapon.
Who says it's not meant to be a primary weapon?
Ce it was,
2/3 it was the br
reach and 4 the dmr
5 its the pistol
The Halo CE pistol was OP because a change of code slightly before the release, while in Halo 5 the power it has was because of a post-release update, supposed to be a "nerfing update" to balance all the weapons and give them their respective roles (AR, BR, DMR, SMG, and every other weapon except from pistols, like boltshots, plasma pistol, and magnum, to be a promary weapon, and the pistols, the role of a pistol, a secondary weapon). Why do you think they released the CE pistol in the Req weapons?? Even in warzone at level 5 (level where you can get the CE pistol) people still use the Simple magnum, and they still win the face-to-face firefights because of the extreme accurracy and magnetism of the Halo 5 magnum, even with the 5 body-shots kill of the CE pistol
I don't think you have a good understanding of warzone. The CE pistol can easily dominate the H5 magnum due to fast time to kill, range and it being full auto. But that's not the issue, the issue is that a lot of players prefer to call in something that would be of a much greater benefit to themselves and their team. What can you spawn at req 5 alongside the CE Pistol?

• Arclight- this is an easy to use counter against vehicles, such as wasps, banshees and warthogs.
• Endgame- this can be game changing if the enemy team has a lot of vehicles up.
• Whiplash- speaks for itself
• Blaze of glory- one of the best weapons to attack and defend bases.
• Ad Victorium- another amazing weapon to capture a base with.

So yeah, people hardly spawn the CE, not because the magnum is good but because its a waste of 5 energy when guns like the ones I mention exist. The CE is a selfish req, its a gun that overall isn't very beneficial to your team
Halo 5 has been out for so long I HIGHLY doubt they'll do anything about the pistol, plus honestly OP if they did nerf it, 343 would get relentless non-stop complains/requests to revoke the nerf. A good example of something similair to the pistol nerf your suggesting would be the BR nerf they did last when I played. They did something with how the burst fired shots landed on enemy targets, both player and ai, and from what I remember, LOTS of people complained, not me though.
Why do you think they released the CE pistol in the Req weapons?? Even in warzone at level 5 (level where you can get the CE pistol) people still use the Simple magnum
Why would they use 5 req levels on a CE Magnum if they could call a Wraith instead?
CD Geco wrote:
SouLxZoMB wrote:
Halo has always been 1 utility pistol dominating the sandbox, adapat and stop crying or go play cod
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Boo. except that was only in Halo CE, where it was obvious they had learning to do. If that was the case, why was a rifle the "utility" for literally every game until 343i goofed and made the magnum OP?
I like the current state of the weapon sandbox. That being said I have only been playing H5 a little under a year, do I didn't get the opportunity to try the original sandbox. I primarily play 4v4 modes, so my opinion is solely based on my experience in that environment.

The BR is still useful, but it does seem to be a slight step below the Magnum; as does the Carbine. I still use them both on occasion as a change of pace.

The SMG feels useless to me. Idk maybe I'm just not using it right?

The Light Rifle is a beast with its 3 shot kill potential. This is really apparent in Forerunner slayer. On a side note, Forerunner Slayer is the perfect example of why Auto only starts are a bad idea. While the Suppressor is a great weapon in its own right, it is completely outclassed by every other Forerunner weapon. As a result, whichever team controls the power weapons, truly controls the match.

The DMR is good, but I tend to shy away from it, as the opportunities for me to use it in its intended role are slim to none, and picking it up usually puts me at a disadvantage.

The AR is a complete beast, and can completely outclass any weapon aside from power weapons in close range. I absolutely love what 343 has done with the AR. The addition of a headshot bonus is what this weapon has been lacking since it's incarnation. I also love the level of precision that can be achieved with the AR, and the utility gained in mid-close range as a result.
Why do you think they released the CE pistol in the Req weapons?? Even in warzone at level 5 (level where you can get the CE pistol) people still use the Simple magnum
Why would they use 5 req levels on a CE Magnum if they could call a Wraith instead?
dude, the CE magnum is great req to call in. c'mon.
SouLxZoMB wrote:
CD Geco wrote:
SouLxZoMB wrote:
Halo has always been 1 utility pistol dominating the sandbox, adapat and stop crying or go play cod
<p></p>
Boo. except that was only in Halo CE, where it was obvious they had learning to do. If that was the case, why was a rifle the "utility" for literally every game until 343i goofed and made the magnum OP?
I didnt meant to write the word pistol. Change"pistol"for weapon"
PSYCHOROID wrote:
I find it just fine.

Pistols are more close encounters weapons, they are quite different depending on which one you use (the regular one is just perfect, the second one has faster fire rate but a bit less precise, the third one offers a silencer and a scope to the detriment of fire rate)

Battle Riffle and DMR are more appreciable in long distance battles (Actually i find the BR2 a bit disadvantaged in front of the DMR)

If i face some one with a pistol i am doing just fine with my Halo2 BR. (no need to swap)

You can still use power weapons if you feel disadvantaged (like lvl 2/3 Needler, lvl3 supressor which is a beast, or even scattershots)
According to Azolai's magnum comparison, the tactical mag actually has a tiny increase in fire rate compared to standard mag.
Will 343 ever do anything about the pistol? I noticed that halo 5 has a lot of guns but everyone just uses the pistol and it's annoying because i would rather use other guns to win.
The pistol will probably not be adjusted, especially with the study full tilt towards Halo Infinite. As others have spoken about the pistol is Halo 5's utility weapon - it can be used in all most all circumstances and be proficient and always gives the player a fighting chance in darn near all engagements. I think it fits this role beautifully.

Furthermore, Halo 5's arena multiplayer weapon sandbox is pretty solid - almost all weapons have clear reasons for use and most have circumstances that when used are disadvantageous to the player. DMR for example is a long range pistol essentially BUT it feels tough to use at very close range. Brute Plasma rifle MELTS shields but on it's own won't have a super fast time to kill.

You can do the Lord's work with a light rifle zoomed in but you gotta hit your head shots. If you don't nail a rocket shot perfectly the time between shots can be perilous if you are in a bad position without cover. The Assault Rifle is great at medium range and actually does some decent damage.

My point is that each weapon has its place and use and learning how to best use weapons within their roles brings the realization that most are worthwhile. The only weapons I would argue typically arn't worth it are the SMG and the BR. The SMG damage just isn't enough to really justify use IMO at close range and the BR, while it is only a 4 shot to kill, you have to make sure all the bullets are a head shot. If you have the aim then go for it but I think the magnum is much more consistent from a TTK standpoint at similar ranges as the BR.
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