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Headshot Multipliers for Automatics?

OP GHOST of MA1NE

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I think the fully automatic weapons are somewhat underpowered. Just a while a go I changed my standard loadout from a battle rifle to a storm rifle, and it was very difficult to adjust.
I found you have to do a lot of crouching to get to a range where your weapon has an advantage (usually inside 15 meters). Of course boltshots can kill you in one shot at that range, and anyone with a jetpack can fly high enough for your weapon to become useless. Which means that it's better to restrict your domain to indoor areas.

If anything fully automatic weapons require more skill to use in halo than precision rifles. That's why I switched.

The assault rifle on the other hand is very consistent at most ranges, and doesn't suffer from these drawbacks nearly as much as the storm rifle and suppressor. In fact I've found it's quite effective at ranges where battle rifles are often used.

Don't agree with me? Try using the storm rifle and get over 1 KD ratio.
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Humor me for a bit here.

Sentinel Beam.
Headshot modifier.
Cuts off after a certain distance to prevent long range sniping.

What now?
I was referring to how the automatics currently work, as indicated below. I'd be more than happy with a weapon like the Sentinel Beam coming back and getting a HS bonus, but with current weapons like the AR, Storm Rifle, and Suppressor it would be a horrible idea.

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Performing as they currently do, no I don't think that's a good idea. Automatics are currently designed to work in close quarters, where the target is much larger making accuracy not so important. Adding headshot multipliers would deem them anymore skillful since there's no skill getting a HS when the bullets are flying everywhere in the big circle of the reticule.
Don't the automatic weapons' crosshair rise as they shoot? So no, there wouldn't be a higher skill gap since the game would carry this anyway...Shoot their body, by the time their shields are broken you're aiming at the head anyway...
Sure, why not? There are many ways to make automatics skillful, and adopting the same concept of "head hurts more than torso" isn't much of a leap.

IMHO Halo Reach's AR was the best iteration yet because the timing it took maximize your shots. I don't recall exactly what that timing was, but I think it was akin to "long burst, short burst, long burst". Maybe someone can help clarify? This was far more effective than "hold trigger, empty clip".

Just because automatics get tagged as "spray and pray" doesn't mean they need to be.

As for the dislike of CQC, well, I don't get it. It's some of the most exciting and intense combat I've experienced, in any Halo game. Further, it's a critical component of a balanced sandbox. I've seen some ninjas with an AR and a Pistol who are virtually untouchable in medium/close range combat.
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I think the fully automatic weapons are somewhat underpowered. Just a while a go I changed my standard loadout from a battle rifle to a storm rifle, and it was very difficult to adjust.
I found you have to do a lot of crouching to get to a range where your weapon has an advantage (usually inside 15 meters). Of course boltshots can kill you in one shot at that range, and anyone with a jetpack can fly high enough for your weapon to become useless. Which means that it's better to restrict your domain to indoor areas.

If anything fully automatic weapons require more skill to use in halo than precision rifles. That's why I switched.

The assault rifle on the other hand is very consistent at most ranges, and doesn't suffer from these drawbacks nearly as much as the storm rifle and suppressor. In fact I've found it's quite effective at ranges where battle rifles are often used.

Don't agree with me? Try using the storm rifle and get over 1 KD ratio.
I played Halo for the first time in like 2/3 months last night and won my very first match 25-4 in free-for-all slayer. I was using a Storm rifle/ light rifle combo with the SR as my primary weapon on Adrift.
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The latter and I'd say its a cultural influence rather than one of the media. In no other community I've been in has semi-automatic weapons received the veneration that they do here. Why is that? Well it is probably the result of our broken sandbox. A semi-automatic is inherently less useful than an automatic because not only do you have greater range and accuracy but the headshot factor (which lets semi-autos pair very well with grenades, melee attacks, and PP's and so intrude on CQC) and the opportunity to get more kills per clip as a result of all this AND greater power. It's a standard set by the very first game but the effect is simply that in anything else (besides a power weapon) you're identifying yourself as someone who doesn't see the most obvious tactical choice in this game. Ie. a skill-less noob.
... Wut. Idaho, I admire you as a writer, but a slight reduction in the Shakespeare category might make it a little more comprehensible, not to mention that you might easier avoid the nonsensical (as highlighted).
Good catch. I obviously flipped semi and fully automatic around there. And yes I might not have made that mistake if had if I stripped down my writing style to the bare essentials but as with any sort of down-scaling you have to sacrifice quite a bit of content/meaning to the process. I'll run the risk of confusing people if it means I have more room to explore the full breadth of my opinion. :)

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I was referring to how the automatics currently work, as indicated below. I'd be more than happy with a weapon like the Sentinel Beam coming back and getting a HS bonus, but with current weapons like the AR, Storm Rifle, and Suppressor it would be a horrible idea.
So make them more accurate. Naturally applying a headshot bonus on a weapon that's quite difficult to score headshots with is a sure way to simply make the game frustrating. However if you modify these weapons to fit the niche of precision automatic weapons (see. Space Marine's Bolter, Section 8's own AR, ) you could do a lot of good by closing the tremendous gap between the versatility of semi-auotos and fully-automatics (and thereby make weapon choice quite a bit less forced and the sandbox correspondingly more balanced.)
I voted No. But after many reflections and afterthought, I would like to state I have my own Ideas on how this should work. The Ideas already put down about tighter spread and less aim assist I add to my Idea, but here is my personal Idea

Seeing as Bullets are supposed to beat Health and Plasma are supposed to beat Shields (removed in H4 between AR and SR) how about giving The AR a multiplier to Unshielded foes while the SR/PR receive a multiplier against shields, reflecting the long standing Plasma/Bullet traits? Also, I wouldn't mind a Headshot multiplier on the PP as well.

The suppressor would receive a multiplier on both shields and Health, but the multiplier would be balanced accordingly.
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Don't the automatic weapons' crosshair rise as they shoot? So no, there wouldn't be a higher skill gap since the game would carry this anyway...Shoot their body, by the time their shields are broken you're aiming at the head anyway...
Yes and no. For SMG's, they do have a barrel rise (Which always confused me. I mean, you can flip over a Warthog, but the recoil on a SMG is so tough that you can't control it?), but they have a lower magnifier, just like the Suppressor would. Everything else, no. You would have to aim towards the head manually instead of going for the center mass and hoping your barrel rise and spread allows you to have a perfect headshot magnifier.
Automatics should be able to zoom in halo 5. This would make them much better at mid ranged fighting and even able to lay down some burst fire damage long range.

come to think on it, its silly they can't zoom.
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Don't the automatic weapons' crosshair rise as they shoot? So no, there wouldn't be a higher skill gap since the game would carry this anyway...Shoot their body, by the time their shields are broken you're aiming at the head anyway...
Yes, but then you'd only headshot them once for like 20% more damage, and you'd be firing above their head after.

We are talking about headshot modifiers and not headshots. A headshot modifier requires you to constantly shoot the head, while a headshot kills the opponent with one shot to the head. So you would still need to aim.

Also I've only noticed recoil on SMG's, which no longer exist.
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Don't the automatic weapons' crosshair rise as they shoot? So no, there wouldn't be a higher skill gap since the game would carry this anyway...Shoot their body, by the time their shields are broken you're aiming at the head anyway...
Yes, but then you'd only headshot them once for like 20% more damage, and you'd be firing above their head after.

We are talking about headshot modifiers and not headshots. A headshot modifier requires you to constantly shoot the head, while a headshot kills the opponent with one shot to the head. So you would still need to aim.

Also I've only noticed recoil on SMG's, which no longer exist.
As I said before, the Suppressor has a VERY limited recoil. It's less of muzzle drift and more a general shaking. It's hard to notice at first, but use the Suppressor enough and you can notice it.
I like this idea. This is more of a need than people know of.

The multiplier has to be significant, rewarding those who pace their shots to get a clean kill. IF the multiplier isn't going to be big i recommend that when a shot hits the target in the head that the target loses accuracy.
I agree. Also the tightening of the spread and less aim assist (we already have the less aim assist at least) would do wonders to the skill gap.
I support fully. Also they could just decrease the spread when burst firing an AR to make going for the head worthy. Maybe to balance that full auto gets a slight bump up in spread? idk.
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Don't agree with me? Try using the storm rifle and get over 1 KD ratio.
I commonly get a 2.0-3.0 KD when I use the storm rifle! No joke!

Ill preach it until my last day on these forums, the storm rifle is an excellent gun if you are skilled and confident in its use.

If anyone has any questions at all about how to succeed with automatics PLEASE don't hesitate to ask me. I consider myself a master of the craft and am willing to help.
Thinking on it, there's a lot they can do for multipliers and the like, without necessarily needing headshot multpliers.

If they tweak the health and shields (health bar please) like adjusting the recharge time for both and the Shield-to-Health ratio, you could start giving different guns different bonuses like Weapon X does extra damage to shields.

It'd be another way to look at balancing the different weapons. I'm pretty sure CE did something like this with certain weapons.
Hmm, I still don't know how I would feel about this...
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If they tweak the health and shields (health bar please) like adjusting the recharge time for both and the Shield-to-Health ratio, you could start giving different guns different bonuses like Weapon X does extra damage to shields.

It'd be another way to look at balancing the different weapons. I'm pretty sure CE did something like this with certain weapons.
If I'm not terribly mistaken, this was the case for all Bungie-made Halo games. Plasma rifle was usually very good on shields but less so for health. I haven't played enough Halo 4 to tell does it apply there too, but I'm fairly sure it applied to all Halos made by Bungie.

Nontheless, I don't see how that would affect the usefulness of headshot multipliers. Headshots multipliers and damage traits for different health levels are meant to accomplish two completely different goals. Damage traits don't really do anything about the skill potential of the weapon. If weapon A does more damage on shields while weapon B does more on health, it doesn't affect how you aim. it doesn't affect where you should aim; whether you aim at the head, the torso, or a foot. It only makes giving different weapons different roles easier.

Headshot multipliers, on the other hand, have two goals: making the player more conscious of their rate of fire (burst firing vs. spraying) as well as making the player more conscious of their accuracy (aiming at the head vs. somewhere else). They are designed to allow a skilled player to utilize the specific weapon more effectively.
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If they tweak the health and shields (health bar please) like adjusting the recharge time for both and the Shield-to-Health ratio, you could start giving different guns different bonuses like Weapon X does extra damage to shields.

It'd be another way to look at balancing the different weapons. I'm pretty sure CE did something like this with certain weapons.
If I'm not terribly mistaken, this was the case for all Bungie-made Halo games. Plasma rifle was usually very good on shields but less so for health. I haven't played enough Halo 4 to tell does it apply there too, but I'm fairly sure it applied to all Halos made by Bungie.

Nontheless, I don't see how that would affect the usefulness of headshot multipliers. Headshots multipliers and damage traits for different health levels are meant to accomplish two completely different goals. Damage traits don't really do anything about the skill potential of the weapon. If weapon A does more damage on shields while weapon B does more on health, it doesn't affect how you aim. it doesn't affect where you should aim; whether you aim at the head, the torso, or a foot. It only makes giving different weapons different roles easier.

Headshot multipliers, on the other hand, have two goals: making the player more conscious of their rate of fire (burst firing vs. spraying) as well as making the player more conscious of their accuracy (aiming at the head vs. somewhere else). They are designed to allow a skilled player to utilize the specific weapon more effectively.
It slightly applies to 4 I believe. I am fairly sure I notice the SR drain shields quicker than the AR. However, when shields are down it seems to kill from that point in an even manner.
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I voted No. But after many reflections and afterthought, I would like to state I have my own Ideas on how this should work. The Ideas already put down about tighter spread and less aim assist I add to my Idea, but here is my personal Idea

Seeing as Bullets are supposed to beat Health and Plasma are supposed to beat Shields (removed in H4 between AR and SR) how about giving The AR a multiplier to Unshielded foes while the SR/PR receive a multiplier against shields, reflecting the long standing Plasma/Bullet traits? Also, I wouldn't mind a Headshot multiplier on the PP as well.

The suppressor would receive a multiplier on both shields and Health, but the multiplier would be balanced accordingly.
I quote muself
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