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How Awesome is Sprint? Gotta love it

OP CrusaderReturn

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Sprint is great. In halo 4 it sas not great but in 5 they did it right. I disagree with the "everyone loved Sprint in reach comment". I hated sprint in reach. I hated armour abilities in reach in general.
Garciawork wrote:
Regarding your first point, considering Spartans can;t fly, move through walls, or other physics bound activities, I would say basing the way a human sprints off of real life physics isn't a bad idea. Note I didn't say replicate, but base. You run faster when your arms are involved, otherwise it is just "running" not "sprinting".
Again, there still remains the possibility of keeping weapon functionality, even at reduced accuracy. Moving your arms does not keep you from shooting. I know, because I do the very same thing during Paintball-, Gotcha- or Lasertag-matches.

As for Spartans not being able to fly or move through walls... they can now, thanks to Spartan charge and stabilizers. Giving genetically and cybernetically augmented super-soldiers these clearly superhuman abilities on the one hand, yet at the same time having them being limited by human physiology on the other is highly contradictory. (Especially in light of the fact that the Mjolnir is able to compensate for these limitations.)

Garciawork wrote:
That is a perfect example of a straw man fallacy. Sprint and an automatic win button are nowhere close to the same idea. Nor is sprint an automatic get out of jail free card. It is a tool that can be used to extend your life when you know you are outgunned. I just used the terminology you used.
You are right, it was exaggerated. But I already explained what I meant: Namely that taking an imbalanced ability and giving it to everybody does not suddenly make it balanced. This is what that example was supposed to illustrate.
The new gameplay style in Halo 5 is awesome and is the best style yet.
Celestis wrote:
Garciawork wrote:
Regarding your first point, considering Spartans can;t fly, move through walls, or other physics bound activities, I would say basing the way a human sprints off of real life physics isn't a bad idea. Note I didn't say replicate, but base. You run faster when your arms are involved, otherwise it is just "running" not "sprinting".
Again, there still remains the possibility of keeping weapon functionality, even at reduced accuracy. Moving your arms does not keep you from shooting. I know, because I do the very same thing during Paintball-, Gotcha- or Lasertag-matches.

As for Spartans not being able to fly or move through walls... they can now, thanks to Spartan charge and stabilizers. Giving genetically and cybernetically augmented super-soldiers these clearly superhuman abilities on the one hand, yet at the same time having them being limited by human physiology on the other is highly contradictory. (Especially in light of the fact that the Mjolnir is able to compensate for these limitations.)

Garciawork wrote:
That is a perfect example of a straw man fallacy. Sprint and an automatic win button are nowhere close to the same idea. Nor is sprint an automatic get out of jail free card. It is a tool that can be used to extend your life when you know you are outgunned. I just used the terminology you used.
You are right, it was exaggerated. But I already explained what I meant: Namely that taking an imbalanced ability and giving it to everybody does not suddenly make it balanced. This is what that example was supposed to illustrate.
I suggested allowing weapon fire during sprint but at a greatly reduced accuracy previously. I have played paintball plenty, and am aware that a trigger can still be pulled, but not accurately.

And no, I meant pass through a wall, defying physics. Your point was that we should disregard physics because its the future, so I made the ridiculous statement that we should be able to fly around the map and pass through walls, because it is the future, so why not? Definitely not a perfect argument, I admit.

And I still don't see what is imbalanced about sprint. I really don't.

All of this said, having never played a match without the ability, I cannot say that it would play better one way or the other. All I can say is with how the game is currently set up, it adds to the gameplay on my end. When I play CE or H2, I miss the ability quite a bit, because I like moving around faster.
Garciawork wrote:
And I still don't see what is imbalanced about sprint. I really don't.
This has been explained several times by people much smarter than me, but I'll try to paraphrase as best as I can.

The general gist is that it creates a rift between an attacker and a victim. Whoever is losing a match can enter sprint mode and just disappear, thereby forcing the end of the fight. The attacker, who was previously winning, can now either let the kill slide or follow into a chase while being equally handicapped. This introduces a random element into a fight that would already have been over otherwise, because it's purely base on luck if the two run into teammates of either side or a power weapon on the way. Regardless, the inferior player avoids certain death and gains a sudden advantage in the fight merely by the push of a button. Yes, every player has this ability, but even so, only one side can benefit from it at any given time during a gunfight, and it's always the losing player. There is an inherent inequality between the two combattants thanks to sprint. That is why it's imbalanced.

Garciawork wrote:
When I play CE or H2, I miss the ability quite a bit, because I like moving around faster.
Again, this can easily be fixed with higher base movement speed. I agree that the old games control a tad too slow for my preference, but this never, ever made me think "Man, I wish I was able to sacrifice my ability to defend myself in a warzone in favor of getting to the other side of the map a few seconds earlier".
There are many videos that prove you wrong, sprint is bad for Halo and the numbers show.
Higher movement speed allows the traversal of larger maps but complicates the finer movements of close quarters. So, increasing base speed is not a free solution.

Anecdotally, I cannot recall in either halo reach or halo 4 ever feeling cheated by sprint- either in getting kills or being killed. I had more issue with bloom and instant respawn.
like common let's stop trashing sprint! It was in Halo Reach and everyone loved it! In Halo 4 it was practical and it made sense cause people were just picking sprint as default in halo reach without a second thought, no one complained about it being there! So it only made perfect sense to have it as default for Halo 4. The down sides were that your Spartan didn't slow down when shot and people didn't like it that Spartans could run away if they had to (apparently it was unfair that John Doe Spartan ducked behind cover). Now in halo 5 not only do you practically stop when shot wile you are sprinting, but you can also turn the sprint feature off. YOU CAN TURN SPRINT OFF.

You
Can
Turn
Sprint
Off.

But in the end let's face it, it's a new thing that isn't going away no matter how much you bang that old forgotten gong. 343I did in fact keep nostalgia players in mind and allowed all you who desire to play classic games on a new halo game to do so. The fact is that 343 has basically made allot of their features that they've added over the years, to be turned off or altered to some reasonable degree.

The fact that banging the old gong in hopes of a permanent change for Halo 6 actually only robs all the new players of something that they (who if you didn't know are the majority of the player base) of something that they've come to love and enjoy. Personally I love both the ability to sprint and the ability to turn it off. Hey I know that if you did a poll or proposed enough for classic slayer with out Spartan abilities and with out sprint, 343 surely will hear you and they'll surely add it as an arena game type. But seeking out to remove it entirely is not only a spit in the face to the developers but also to the fans that enjoy having that feature.

Maybe the argument can be made that those who oppose Sprint, oppose it because of lack of skill, or the simple fact that they can't shoot moving targets. Or that they can't compensate for it. Typically I've seen players sprint away but then it's not normally very far, and a good gernade bounced around the corner will make that simple sprinter into an exploder (he dead).

Put into consideration that things like the needler, Bolt Shot, Suppresor, track targets to some extent and mainly stop sprinters and kill them or slow them down enough for someone else to polish them off. Also consider the fact that those who do choose to sprint away from an encounter, do so without being able to charge their shields or reload a weapon, or ability to make into cover fast enough. Sure running around the bend might be annoying cause that guy you were shooting at didn't just sit there like "oh shoot me, I'm a noob", but hey like I said before "toss a gernade".

The fact remains that sprint was and is the next step for halo. Personally I think that 343 needs to decide between Armor Abilities and Spartan Abilities. I don't think or feel the Spartan Abilities effect the game enough, and take quite a bit skill or timing. Were as Armor Abilities seemed to have too much of an impact on gameplay.

Well I've spoken enough, so I'll hand this back. I'm curious as to your response, it has taken me quite a bit of typing on my iPad. Thanks for reading this I hope it's constructive and it stays on topic.
Cool tell me where the playlist for no sprint or Spartan abilitys is in the options to search for for MATCHMAKING
Quote:
Higher movement speed allows the traversal of larger maps but complicates the finer movements of close quarters. So, increasing base speed is not a free solution.

Anecdotally, I cannot recall in either halo reach or halo 4 ever feeling cheated by sprint- either in getting kills or being killed. I had more issue with bloom and instant respawn.
If you're talking about increasing the difficulty of aiming at an opponent...that's more of an upside than anything. Though I'm doubtful increasing base speed within the 100-125% range of its current value is going to have a significant impact on aiming in the first place.

Quote:
The fact remains that sprint was and is the next step for halo.
Seriously, some of you guys need to learn the difference between fact and opinion.
As much as I love being able to sprint because I'm used to it in other games... the maps are so big it doesn't really matter but 343 has to balance somehow. I do like how shields don't recharge while sprinting, making firefights worth staying and fighting over running.
I love the Spartan charge off of sprint
tsassi wrote:
Looonski wrote:
Also, trick jumping in Halo 5 is much more complex than just holding your jump button to climb walls. You can string combo's of abilities to stay in the air for extremely long periods of time. You can thrust, slide, jump on a ledge and get launched, then stabilize in the air, charge your ground pound, thrust again since it'll be off cooldown, and clamber. Granted you'll probably never be able to pull that off while in an actual game, but shorter versions of that combo are very possible in games. People hating on clamber because its "easy" just don't understand what its used for. You can still crouch jump on ledges and make it up without clambering. Like getting from sniper spawn on Coliseum to the ledges near snipe 3. What you use clamber for is for higher/farther ledges, it opens up areas that were previously unavailable. It gives you more options.
I don't think any other Halo game has as rich a trick jumping system as Halo 5.
The thing about Clamber is that any jump designed to be only accessible with Clamber can be designed with little changes in such a way that it's accessible without Clamber, and provided that no Clamber can be used for the latter jump, the jump will be more difficult than the Clamber equivalent. The reason is that Clamber, by design, has a large margin of error left for the player to make the ability usable. But the side effect of that is that the game will always be easier with Clamber than without.
When it comes to stringing together abilities, the key here is "abilities". I believe that Thrust, and the side effect of Ground Pound charging are valid tools that add something to trick jumping. However, Clamber is the odd one out that adds nothing. If trick jumping in Halo 5 has any more depth than in previous Halos, the depth comes from abilities other than Clamber. Clamber itself is only a crutch, the only purpose of which is to make movement easier.
When it comes to your last statement, the problem is much more complicated than that. We can talk all day about different abilities, but the fact is that trick jumping is mainly a matter of map design, rather than a matter of how many abilities the player is given. You can go all Titanfall and allow players to take almost any path on the map, but that doesn't necessarily mean you have a deeper movement system than in a game where movement is more restricted. Depth isn't about giving the player full freedom. Depth is about restricting the player from doing the obvious, and forcing them to think and practice. Movement in Titanfall is not very deep because the player can move so freely that any path is obvious, and easily learned.
How deep the movement is a matter of how inventive the map designers and the player can be with a limited set of movement abilities. It's easy to give the player wings and say that you have the richest movement system ever because the player can go anywhere, but that "richness" is of little use if every player can do everything, regardless of skill level. Instead, you're better off giving the player a limited set of movement abilities, and, aside from the obvious routes, to design a set of unobvious paths around the map that take a creative player to find, and a skilled player to succeed at. And it's this process of map design that separates a game built for movement from a game that merely pretends to be movement oriented.
When it comes to Halo, Halo has never had exceptional map design in terms of movement. Prior to Halo 5, the movement capabilities given to players had been vastly underutilized in map design. When it comes to Halo 5, the environments don't seem any more built for movement than in past games. The movement is "rich" because every player can do so much more, but when it comes to differences between the unskilled and the skilled player, I haven't seen a reason to believe that Halo 5 truly has any deeper movement than prior Halos. The maps are only made for movement as much as the increased movement abilities allow the player (any player) to get to more places. But that's not depth, that's just variety for sake of variety.
Those are interesting points. I don't think clambering up jumps and just jumping up them is too much more difficult though. Clamber adds to the gameplay, as a Spartan moving through the game would you want the option to use your hands and climb things? I understand there are limits to this, and flying around is probably too much, but I do like clambering as part of the game. Chasing down enemies isn't crazy, especially with a pistol and AR. And at the very least, its pretty damn handy!

Also, come on. HaloCE movement and jumping is pretty bland when compared to Halo 5. Trick jumping aside, just moving through the game I use so many abilities to get around in Halo 5; there are so many options, but not enough to overwhelm or make things needlessly complex. I get your point on map design, and its very modern art, but crouch jumping around in HaloCE is nothing compared to what is going on in Halo 5. I say that as a gigantic HaloCE fan, who just played it at a lan last weekend. Halo 5 feels like HaloCE's natural successor, and I think the movement is part of that. Its not variety for the sake of variety, it adds another level of creativity for the player. It deepens the skill pool by giving seasoned or more cunning players the ability to outsmart their opponent.
I love sprint, spartan charge, and ground pound. I think 343 did a great job in keeping it fresh and more fast paced. For all the old fans who like the old way play MCC.
For the love of god, the game is not faster paced!!!!!!!

Refer to below -

Map made to accommodate base movement speed -

A________________Size__________________B - 10 secs

Map made to accommodate sprint -

A__________________________Size_______________________B - 10 secs

The difference is...........drum roll............. you can't shoot while sprinting = taking away from gunplay = standoff-ish gameplay.
Ramir3z77 wrote:
Quote:
Higher movement speed allows the traversal of larger maps but complicates the finer movements of close quarters. So, increasing base speed is not a free solution.

Anecdotally, I cannot recall in either halo reach or halo 4 ever feeling cheated by sprint- either in getting kills or being killed. I had more issue with bloom and instant respawn.
If you're talking about increasing the difficulty of aiming at an opponent...that's more of an upside than anything. Though I'm doubtful increasing base speed within the 100-125% range of its current value is going to have a significant impact on aiming in the first place.

Quote:
The fact remains that sprint was and is the next step for halo.
Seriously, some of you guys need to learn the difference between fact and opinion.
And so does the anti-sprint too.
I know!!!!!! it really pisses me off when they trash sprint
Let's not forget that there is always a little bit of lag since we are on the Internet. So if someone run to a corner and quickly stops at the right place they literally have a slit second advantage and that's huge in shooters. Lan would be a different story. Bottom line sprint is unbalanced and unfair at times.
I know!!!!!! it really pisses me off when they trash sprint
I take it to the dumpster twice a day
I like the sprint, to be honest. I got back on Halo 2a the other day and I honestly felt ridiculous. I'm a supersoldier who can do nothing but walk? That's a joke.

In addition, a lot of people complain in this game that they feel they're gunned down too quickly- before they can even respond. Without sprint, this would happen EVEN more, increasing the amount of long distance camping/scoping, especially in warzone.
-Criticizes CoD for being the same game every year
-Wants Halo to literally be the same thing as Halo 2
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