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[Locked] Is sprint killing Halo

OP OverlordTouchMe

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One7TOut wrote:
You missed the two biggest detrimental effects sprint has on Halo.

-Elongation of map scaling

-Changing Halo gameplay from run and gun to run or gun

Other points you missed

-Makes Halo feel generic or less unique
-Can cause stagnant standoffish gameplay
This.
From what I've seen from the tournaments, that seems to happen even when they don't have sprint
Yes,and now with sprint and big maps is going to be worst.
One7TOut wrote:
You missed the two biggest detrimental effects sprint has on Halo.

-Elongation of map scaling

-Changing Halo gameplay from run and gun to run or gun

Other points you missed

-Makes Halo feel generic or less unique
-Can cause stagnant standoffish gameplay
This.
From what I've seen from the tournaments, that seems to happen even when they don't have sprint
Yes,and now with sprint and big maps is going to be worst.
I doubt it is going to change much the really good players don't rush in and die hence why the game may seem stagnant as people don't make stupid plays like your average everyday Halo player. People don't find it boring though in competition because there is tension and something to play for.
You missed the two biggest detrimental effects sprint has on Halo.

-Elongation of map scaling
Which is cancelled out by sprint, so no big deal (unless you suck at targeting beyond mid-range).

-Changing Halo gameplay from run and gun to run or gun
Sprinting and gunning is too nooby hand-holdy. Consequences give choices meaning and can put a risk vs. reward tactical slant on the issue. To sprint or not to sprint?

Other points you missed

-Makes Halo feel generic or less unique
Subjective. Besides, that would imply that Halo CE felt unique for not having sprint when most other FPS's of the time also didn't have sprint. -Can cause stagnant standoffish gameplay
Also subjective, and on a personal not: not the experience I had in the beta. The H5 beta made Halo CE-3 feel as slow as molasses imo.
You missed the two biggest detrimental effects sprint has on Halo.
-Elongation of map scaling
Which is cancelled out by sprint, so no big deal (unless you suck at targeting beyond mid-range).
-Changing Halo gameplay from run and gun to run or gun
Sprinting and gunning is too nooby hand-holdy. Consequences give choices meaning and can put a risk vs. reward tactical slant on the issue. To sprint or not to sprint?
Other points you missed
-Makes Halo feel generic or less unique
Subjective. Besides, that would imply that Halo CE felt unique for not having sprint when most other FPS's of the time also didn't have sprint. -Can cause stagnant standoffish gameplay
Also subjective, and on a personal not: not the experience I had in the beta. The H5 beta made Halo CE-3 feel as slow as molasses imo.
So if large maps are cancelled out by sprint and it essentially becomes a wash....why have sprint at all?
Again...the "illusion of speed"

And the H5 Beta made CE-3 feel slow as molasses because of 60FPS -NOT- because of sprint
You missed the two biggest detrimental effects sprint has on Halo.
-Elongation of map scaling
Which is cancelled out by sprint, so no big deal (unless you suck at targeting beyond mid-range).
-Changing Halo gameplay from run and gun to run or gun
Sprinting and gunning is too nooby hand-holdy. Consequences give choices meaning and can put a risk vs. reward tactical slant on the issue. To sprint or not to sprint?
Other points you missed
-Makes Halo feel generic or less unique
Subjective. Besides, that would imply that Halo CE felt unique for not having sprint when most other FPS's of the time also didn't have sprint. -Can cause stagnant standoffish gameplay
Also subjective, and on a personal not: not the experience I had in the beta. The H5 beta made Halo CE-3 feel as slow as molasses imo.
So if large maps are cancelled out by sprint and it essentially becomes a wash....why have sprint at all?
Again...the "illusion of speed"

And the H5 Beta made CE-3 feel slow as molasses because of 60FPS -NOT- because of sprint
Lol that statement is such BS we have been playing Halo The MCC you know where all games run at 60fps. Halo 1-3 still feel slow compared with Halo 5 and Halo 4 for that matter IMO whether or not it is an illusion or not is irrelevant the feeling of slow sluggishness is still there even at 60fps with Halo 1-3.
You missed the two biggest detrimental effects sprint has on Halo.
-Elongation of map scaling
Which is cancelled out by sprint, so no big deal (unless you suck at targeting beyond mid-range).
-Changing Halo gameplay from run and gun to run or gun
Sprinting and gunning is too nooby hand-holdy. Consequences give choices meaning and can put a risk vs. reward tactical slant on the issue. To sprint or not to sprint?
Other points you missed
-Makes Halo feel generic or less unique
Subjective. Besides, that would imply that Halo CE felt unique for not having sprint when most other FPS's of the time also didn't have sprint. -Can cause stagnant standoffish gameplay
Also subjective, and on a personal not: not the experience I had in the beta. The H5 beta made Halo CE-3 feel as slow as molasses imo.
So if large maps are cancelled out by sprint and it essentially becomes a wash....why have sprint at all?
Again...the "illusion of speed"

And the H5 Beta made CE-3 feel slow as molasses because of 60FPS -NOT- because of sprint
Well, you do move faster sprinting than you do at regular speed. So I don't think it's an illusion.
If we're talking how much time it takes to traverse a distance. Sure, it'll take the same amount of time to travel from point A to point B at base speed as it would to sprint an elongated point A to point B, but that's not why I like sprint. I don't think sprint is good for getting to my destination quicker. I like sprint because it makes my movement faster when I need it to be.

And the framerate is NOT what I'm talking about. I've experienced the difference in gameplay speed between Halo 4 on 360 and Halo 4 on the xbone. Not at all what I'm talking about when I say the H5 beta made Halo CE-3 feel as slow as molasses
You missed the two biggest detrimental effects sprint has on Halo.

-Elongation of map scaling

Could be good or bad depending on who you ask. One person might say that the tiny maps of Halo 3, say Heretic,or Halo 2's Warlock are too claustrophobic, making gameplay more reactionary and less strategic.

-Changing Halo gameplay from run and gun to run or gun

It's funny, because one of the biggest complaints about Halo 4 was that it was too run and gun and not methodical enough.

I'll take "the community doesn't know what it wants" for 300, Alex.

You missed the two biggest detrimental effects sprint has on Halo.

-Makes Halo feel generic or less unique
I swear the "it's generic" argument has itself become generic. It is a trite, meaningless buzzword only used as groupthink, not an original thought that actually explains anything substantially.

You missed the two biggest detrimental effects sprint has on Halo.

-Can cause stagnant standoffish gameplay
I have never, in my experience playing Halo 4, found the game to stonewall barring a perfectly matched team, and all that results in is a higher kill count than the other games due to sprint allowing for quicker engagements. But even when that does happen, I'm moving around the map more often in Halo 4 and 5 than any of the others. Halo CE Blood Gulch? Halo 3 Standoff? Halo 2 Coagulation? Those are scenarios where the game stonewalls. Why? Because the pace of the game is locked in, no one can move forward if everyone is locked into the same speed. In those scenarios, all anyone is doing is banging their head against a wall endlessly until the timer runs out or someone gets lucky and squeezes through--I have yet to see a game of CTF on Blood Gulch reach the score limit. Additionally have you ever watched Halo on a professional level? Two teams squaring off across map with hardly any movement practically defines high level Halo barring very specific circumstances.

Here's what I don't get: I have seen two opposing complaints that are equally as common. 1) "Halo 5 keeps map movement stagnant, no one can move anywhere without getting picked off." Or 2) "Halo 5 is too run and gun, everyone is moving around like a headless chicken." These are two diametrically opposed viewpoints that physically can't be both true yet the community seems equal parts convinced they are. My experience with map movement is just fine in Halo 4 and 5, especially in Halo 5 from what I played of the beta. But I had to be very aware of player positioning in order to do so, and familiar with the maps (which, correct me if I am wrong, is supposed to be a good thing). It was hardly "stagnate standoffish gameplay." Maybe the problem isn't with the game but the people playing the game?

So again: I'll take "the community doesn't know what it wants" for 500.
You missed the two biggest detrimental effects sprint has on Halo.
-Elongation of map scaling
Which is cancelled out by sprint, so no big deal (unless you suck at targeting beyond mid-range).
-Changing Halo gameplay from run and gun to run or gun
Sprinting and gunning is too nooby hand-holdy. Consequences give choices meaning and can put a risk vs. reward tactical slant on the issue. To sprint or not to sprint?
Other points you missed
-Makes Halo feel generic or less unique
Subjective. Besides, that would imply that Halo CE felt unique for not having sprint when most other FPS's of the time also didn't have sprint. -Can cause stagnant standoffish gameplay
Also subjective, and on a personal not: not the experience I had in the beta. The H5 beta made Halo CE-3 feel as slow as molasses imo.
So if large maps are cancelled out by sprint and it essentially becomes a wash....why have sprint at all?
Again...the "illusion of speed"

And the H5 Beta made CE-3 feel slow as molasses because of 60FPS -NOT- because of sprint
Well, you do move faster sprinting than you do at regular speed. So I don't think it's an illusion.
If we're talking how much time it takes to traverse a distance. Sure, it'll take the same amount of time to travel from point A to point B at base speed as it would to sprint an elongated point A to point B, but that's not why I like sprint. I don't think sprint is good for getting to my destination quicker. I like sprint because it makes my movement faster when I need it to be.

And the framerate is NOT what I'm talking about. I've experienced the difference in gameplay speed between Halo 4 on 360 and Halo 4 on the xbone. Not at all what I'm talking about when I say the H5 beta made Halo CE-3 feel as slow as molasses
You're aware that they nef base movement speed to make sprint feel faster right?
You're talking about addition through subraction

So if you want your movement to be faster then I will once again throw out my suggestion
Remove sprint completely and buff movement speed to 130% that way you're always moving fast always have your weapon at the ready
That way the game feels faster to you and the people who enjoyed ythe ce-3 style can still enjoy the game as well

this should make everyone happy yes?
You missed the two biggest detrimental effects sprint has on Halo.
-Elongation of map scaling
Which is cancelled out by sprint, so no big deal (unless you suck at targeting beyond mid-range).
-Changing Halo gameplay from run and gun to run or gun
Sprinting and gunning is too nooby hand-holdy. Consequences give choices meaning and can put a risk vs. reward tactical slant on the issue. To sprint or not to sprint?
Other points you missed
-Makes Halo feel generic or less unique
Subjective. Besides, that would imply that Halo CE felt unique for not having sprint when most other FPS's of the time also didn't have sprint. -Can cause stagnant standoffish gameplay
Also subjective, and on a personal not: not the experience I had in the beta. The H5 beta made Halo CE-3 feel as slow as molasses imo.
So if large maps are cancelled out by sprint and it essentially becomes a wash....why have sprint at all?
Again...the "illusion of speed"

And the H5 Beta made CE-3 feel slow as molasses because of 60FPS -NOT- because of sprint
Lol that statement is such BS we have been playing Halo The MCC you know where all games run at 60fps. Halo 1-3 still feel slow compared with Halo 5 and Halo 4 for that matter IMO whether or not it is an illusion or not is irrelevant the feeling of slow sluggishness is still there even at 60fps with Halo 1-3.
The fact you actually believe the MCC runs at 60fps at all times concerns me
The game drops fram rate consistantly over all titles both in campaign AND in multiplayer

MCC does not run at a consistant 60FPS, the H5 beta did, did you notice (probably not) when you first got the MCC and tried out the H3 campaign/multiplayers that you felt like you were learning to aim all over again and the aiming felt slick or "fast", thats 60 FPS talking
You missed the two biggest detrimental effects sprint has on Halo.

-Elongation of map scaling
Which is cancelled out by sprint, so no big deal (unless you suck at targeting beyond mid-range).

-Changing Halo gameplay from run and gun to run or gun
Sprinting and gunning is too nooby hand-holdy. Consequences give choices meaning and can put a risk vs. reward tactical slant on the issue. To sprint or not to sprint?

Other points you missed

-Makes Halo feel generic or less unique
Subjective. Besides, that would imply that Halo CE felt unique for not having sprint when most other FPS's of the time also didn't have sprint. -Can cause stagnant standoffish gameplay
Also subjective, and on a personal not: not the experience I had in the beta. The H5 beta made Halo CE-3 feel as slow as molasses imo.
Yes sprinting negates the effects of map elongation. However once you stop sprinting to do literally anything else, the negative effects are instantly apparent. In combat you cannot move at the speed the map is scaled to. That is a big issue.
You missed the two biggest detrimental effects sprint has on Halo.
-Elongation of map scaling
Which is cancelled out by sprint, so no big deal (unless you suck at targeting beyond mid-range).
-Changing Halo gameplay from run and gun to run or gun
Sprinting and gunning is too nooby hand-holdy. Consequences give choices meaning and can put a risk vs. reward tactical slant on the issue. To sprint or not to sprint?
Other points you missed
-Makes Halo feel generic or less unique
Subjective. Besides, that would imply that Halo CE felt unique for not having sprint when most other FPS's of the time also didn't have sprint. -Can cause stagnant standoffish gameplay
Also subjective, and on a personal not: not the experience I had in the beta. The H5 beta made Halo CE-3 feel as slow as molasses imo.
So if large maps are cancelled out by sprint and it essentially becomes a wash....why have sprint at all?
Again...the "illusion of speed"

And the H5 Beta made CE-3 feel slow as molasses because of 60FPS -NOT- because of sprint
Lol that statement is such BS we have been playing Halo The MCC you know where all games run at 60fps. Halo 1-3 still feel slow compared with Halo 5 and Halo 4 for that matter IMO whether or not it is an illusion or not is irrelevant the feeling of slow sluggishness is still there even at 60fps with Halo 1-3.
That is subjective. I find h4 to be very slow in comparsion to hce and h2.
You missed the two biggest detrimental effects sprint has on Halo.
-Elongation of map scaling
Which is cancelled out by sprint, so no big deal (unless you suck at targeting beyond mid-range).
-Changing Halo gameplay from run and gun to run or gun
Sprinting and gunning is too nooby hand-holdy. Consequences give choices meaning and can put a risk vs. reward tactical slant on the issue. To sprint or not to sprint?
Other points you missed
-Makes Halo feel generic or less unique
Subjective. Besides, that would imply that Halo CE felt unique for not having sprint when most other FPS's of the time also didn't have sprint. -Can cause stagnant standoffish gameplay
Also subjective, and on a personal not: not the experience I had in the beta. The H5 beta made Halo CE-3 feel as slow as molasses imo.
So if large maps are cancelled out by sprint and it essentially becomes a wash....why have sprint at all?
Again...the "illusion of speed"

And the H5 Beta made CE-3 feel slow as molasses because of 60FPS -NOT- because of sprint
Well, you do move faster sprinting than you do at regular speed. So I don't think it's an illusion.
If we're talking how much time it takes to traverse a distance. Sure, it'll take the same amount of time to travel from point A to point B at base speed as it would to sprint an elongated point A to point B, but that's not why I like sprint. I don't think sprint is good for getting to my destination quicker. I like sprint because it makes my movement faster when I need it to be.

And the framerate is NOT what I'm talking about. I've experienced the difference in gameplay speed between Halo 4 on 360 and Halo 4 on the xbone. Not at all what I'm talking about when I say the H5 beta made Halo CE-3 feel as slow as molasses
You're aware that they nef base movement speed to make sprint feel faster right?
You're talking about addition through subraction

So if you want your movement to be faster then I will once again throw out my suggestion
Remove sprint completely and buff movement speed to 130% that way you're always moving fast always have your weapon at the ready
That way the game feels faster to you and the people who enjoyed ythe ce-3 style can still enjoy the game as well

this should make everyone happy yes?
You're aware that sprint is faster than the base movement speed before and after the nerf to base movement speed, yes?
I don't want a high base movement speed with my gun constantly at the ready. If I did, I'd play Unreal Tournament. No thanks.
I like a base movement speed with the option to move faster at the risk of offensive capabilities. This to me offers a more challenging level of gameplay that promotes teamwork and tactical decision making than simply zipping around all over the place shooting at the first thing I see.
You missed the two biggest detrimental effects sprint has on Halo.

-Elongation of map scaling
Which is cancelled out by sprint, so no big deal (unless you suck at targeting beyond mid-range).

-Changing Halo gameplay from run and gun to run or gun
Sprinting and gunning is too nooby hand-holdy. Consequences give choices meaning and can put a risk vs. reward tactical slant on the issue. To sprint or not to sprint?

Other points you missed

-Makes Halo feel generic or less unique
Subjective. Besides, that would imply that Halo CE felt unique for not having sprint when most other FPS's of the time also didn't have sprint. -Can cause stagnant standoffish gameplay
Also subjective, and on a personal not: not the experience I had in the beta. The H5 beta made Halo CE-3 feel as slow as molasses imo.
Yes sprinting negates the effects of map elongation. However once you stop sprinting to do literally anything else, the negative effects are instantly apparent. In combat you cannot move at the speed the map is scaled to. That is a big issue.
What negative effect? You aren't able to get from point A to point B as quickly now because you got interrupted by a firefight? It is as it should be.
ROBERTO jh wrote:
You missed the two biggest detrimental effects sprint has on Halo.

-Elongation of map scaling

Could be good or bad depending on who you ask. One person might say that the tiny maps of Halo 3, say Heretic,or Halo 2's Warlock are too claustrophobic, making gameplay more reactionary and less strategic.
ok

1. Map elongation causing the extinction of small maps is an issue it creates but it is not THE issue. The main problem elongation causes is the elongation of map scaling. This applies to virtually all maps(though it is less apparent in BTB maps(which is why I believe BTB has seen a meteoric rise in popularity since Reach, but that is for another thread)). To explain this phenomenon let's look at H3 guardian's snipe tower. That area has three levels and a ramp connecting levels 2 and 3. There was so much dynamic gameplay happening in this area of the map. During combat people would move between and around all 3 levels. There was a ll kinds of weapon variety use in this area. There was all kinds of interesting terrain usage in this area. Why? Because the area was scaled to COMBAT SPEED. Meaning people could traverse the area while in combat. Now if guardian was added to a halo game with sprint or sprint was added to H3 , guardian's sniper tower's scaling would have to be elongated. The rooms would have to be stretched out to accommodate sprint. The ramp would have to be made longer and wider. Everything about the tower would be stretched out. As a result people would not be able to effectively traverse the area while in combat; it is scaled to sprint speed, not combat speed. So now instead of an interconnected area of awesomeness, we have three huge rooms and a huge ramp. All three of which provide boring, sterile, disconnected gameplay.
You missed the two biggest detrimental effects sprint has on Halo.

-Elongation of map scaling
Which is cancelled out by sprint, so no big deal (unless you suck at targeting beyond mid-range).

-Changing Halo gameplay from run and gun to run or gun
Sprinting and gunning is too nooby hand-holdy. Consequences give choices meaning and can put a risk vs. reward tactical slant on the issue. To sprint or not to sprint?

Other points you missed

-Makes Halo feel generic or less unique
Subjective. Besides, that would imply that Halo CE felt unique for not having sprint when most other FPS's of the time also didn't have sprint. -Can cause stagnant standoffish gameplay
Also subjective, and on a personal not: not the experience I had in the beta. The H5 beta made Halo CE-3 feel as slow as molasses imo.
Yes sprinting negates the effects of map elongation. However once you stop sprinting to do literally anything else, the negative effects are instantly apparent. In combat you cannot move at the speed the map is scaled to. That is a big issue.
What negative effect? You aren't able to get from point A to point B as quickly now because you got interrupted by a firefight? It is as it should be.
The negative effect of combat taking place in a sterile environment that is devoid of interesting terrain elements. The map is scaled to sprint speed. Meaning the objects are placed apart from each other in relation to sprint speed. Once you drop out of sprint, things are stretched out in relation to your current speed.
No sprint is not killing Halo. The community is killing Halo.
This.

Besides, H4 is the top game specific playlist in TMCC so sprint is clearly not killing Halo. Hard to be a futuristic super soldier if you cant sprint. Especially when he is sprinting in all the cinemas.
You missed the two biggest detrimental effects sprint has on Halo.

-Elongation of map scaling
Which is cancelled out by sprint, so no big deal (unless you suck at targeting beyond mid-range).

-Changing Halo gameplay from run and gun to run or gun
Sprinting and gunning is too nooby hand-holdy. Consequences give choices meaning and can put a risk vs. reward tactical slant on the issue. To sprint or not to sprint?

Other points you missed

-Makes Halo feel generic or less unique
Subjective. Besides, that would imply that Halo CE felt unique for not having sprint when most other FPS's of the time also didn't have sprint. -Can cause stagnant standoffish gameplay
Also subjective, and on a personal not: not the experience I had in the beta. The H5 beta made Halo CE-3 feel as slow as molasses imo.
Yes sprinting negates the effects of map elongation. However once you stop sprinting to do literally anything else, the negative effects are instantly apparent. In combat you cannot move at the speed the map is scaled to. That is a big issue.
What negative effect? You aren't able to get from point A to point B as quickly now because you got interrupted by a firefight? It is as it should be.
The negative effect of combat taking place in a sterile environment that is devoid of interesting terrain elements. The map is scaled to sprint speed. Meaning the objects are placed apart from each other in relation to sprint speed. Once you drop out of sprint, things are stretched out in relation to your current speed.
Exhibit A: the Map Landfall on Halo 4.Lovely environment with a great looking sunset, great skybox and action happening outside of the map. Lots of unique and small close quarter areas coupled with larger areas with many obstacles that are placed close together in the way to jump over or duck behind to make some interesting firefights. Nothing is stretched out too far that you can't climb some stairs, jump a box or go through a doorway.

So.....I don't see any negative effect at all.
Simple answer? No, it's not killing anything. What it is doing, however, is inspiring a vocal minority to whine endlessly about a feature that has been standard in any modern shooter for the last 8 years. It's here to stay, and that's a hard thing for angry traditionalists to grasp (this is coming from someone who has played every single Halo game for countless hours). It's as if the implementation of sprint is taking away what people know and love and charting Halo into some new, foreign territory they aren't comfortable with and large portion of these traditionalists are old-school Halo players who just want Halo 3, 2.0 rather than a true follow-up game that moves the franchise forward. Rest assured, if sprint was magically removed and what we got was more like Halo 3, 2.0, this vocal minority would be happy but the majority of gamers that play would feel cheated by getting a game that is basically the same product released in 2007 with prettier graphics. In the modern gaming landscape, that's not how you obtain success. Instead, I would suggest that success is obtained through careful innovation while also respecting what makes the franchise stand out.

You can continue to complain, that's entirely your right as a vocal fans who want the best for their favorite gaming franchise, but the reality is that it's here and it's staying.
If only there was a way we could FORGE the old non sprint halo maps. Oh wait we can, so stop complaining. We can disable sprint so if it bothers you that much start a custom game.
You missed the two biggest detrimental effects sprint has on Halo.

-Elongation of map scaling
Which is cancelled out by sprint, so no big deal (unless you suck at targeting beyond mid-range).

-Changing Halo gameplay from run and gun to run or gun
Sprinting and gunning is too nooby hand-holdy. Consequences give choices meaning and can put a risk vs. reward tactical slant on the issue. To sprint or not to sprint?

Other points you missed

-Makes Halo feel generic or less unique
Subjective. Besides, that would imply that Halo CE felt unique for not having sprint when most other FPS's of the time also didn't have sprint. -Can cause stagnant standoffish gameplay
Also subjective, and on a personal not: not the experience I had in the beta. The H5 beta made Halo CE-3 feel as slow as molasses imo.
Yes sprinting negates the effects of map elongation. However once you stop sprinting to do literally anything else, the negative effects are instantly apparent. In combat you cannot move at the speed the map is scaled to. That is a big issue.
What negative effect? You aren't able to get from point A to point B as quickly now because you got interrupted by a firefight? It is as it should be.
The negative effect of combat taking place in a sterile environment that is devoid of interesting terrain elements. The map is scaled to sprint speed. Meaning the objects are placed apart from each other in relation to sprint speed. Once you drop out of sprint, things are stretched out in relation to your current speed.
Examples?
You make it sound as if maps now have long stretches of flat, empty terrain. The maps in the beta were nothing like that.
pajama dad wrote:
Dakk1d wrote:
So many sprint threads...
Honestly just deal with it.
Warzone NEEDS it.
Competitive play does not
True. It it also will end up fine with it.
You say this with what experience with Halo competitive play as your background?
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