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Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

Possible Loadout System

OP Luke Pawlowski

Loadouts would only consist of, Primary, Secondary, Grenade, and equipment. Every individual item would get a point value and when creating loadouts there would be a limit to the amount of points. An example would be BR-40 points, Magnum-20 points, 2 frags-20 points, and flare-20 points. The part that I think would be awesome is that you could say take away one of the frags and then use those 10 points to upgrade your magnum to a SMG. Or get rid of your magnum all together and have 4 frags instead of just two. These are just examples but I think that something like this would give each player enough customization to make your own, special, loadout while keeping battles fairly consistant and not left to chance on what AA your enemy has.
Here's my input I always say:

-Keep loadouts and balance them better
-Remove personal ordinance forever
-AA's as map pickups except sprint
-Power weapons drop in maps
-Design well made maps for all of this
Quote:
Here's my input I always say:

-Keep loadouts and balance them better
-Remove personal ordinance forever
-AA's as map pickups except sprint
-Power weapons drop in maps
-Design well made maps for all of this
All of that had nothing to do with my OP.
Quote:
Here's my input I always say:

-Keep loadouts and balance them better
-Remove personal ordinance forever
-AA's as map pickups except sprint
-Power weapons drop in maps
-Design well made maps for all of this
Its easy to just say "keep it and balance it better". Its another thing to actually give ideas/suggestions on how to do so.
Sorry Luke, I see where you are trying to go but to me it just seems like a complication but for not much reward. A choice of primary, magnum secondary and 2 frags or 1 sicky/pulse seems enough for me.
I think the problem with this system is that all secondary (non-Primary weapon) additions would have to be balanced with each other, rather than simply with their peers. For example, the SMG would have to be worth it to sacrifice that extra grenade, which becomes problematic when balancing it with the AR. It also adds too much randomness for my tastes by allowing variations between the amount of grenades a player spawns with/whether or not he/she has a sidearm at-spawn.

I personally feel we should just have a set and predictable arsenal selection (including amount of each). My idea is this:

Primaries
Assault Rifle, Battle Rifle, Storm Rifle, Covenant Carbine

Secondaries
Magnum, SMG, Needle Pistol, or Plasma Rifle

Frag grenades only

No Equipment/AAs at-spawn

No 'perks'
Its a refreshing change of pace to see somebody thinking of ways to improve existing concepts. I like the uniqueness of your suggestion a lot, but as Ghost of Maine said in the post above mine, it doesn't do much to improve upon the randomness of loadouts -- which is one of the key factors keeping Halo from returning to its roots as an arena shooter.
Basically, I agree with what GHOST has said as well. Nonethelss it is nice to see that there are still people who try to think about possible ways how to fix current concepts instead of simply scrapping them.

In addition, allowing to spawn with 4 grenades in multiplayer would be madness in my opinion.
Personally, I think spawning with 2 grenandes is already too much and causes spam issues.
However, like you I think that Equipment or rather AA's with specific and limited uses per life could work in loadouts as well or at least would be an improvement.
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Here's my input I always say:

-Keep loadouts and balance them better
-Remove personal ordinance forever
-AA's as map pickups except sprint
-Power weapons drop in maps
-Design well made maps for all of this
Its easy to just say "keep it and balance it better". Its another thing to actually give ideas/suggestions on how to do so.
Right, however there are plenty of good suggestions flooding these forums, what I said basically sums it up in a nutshell. Didn't feel like typing that many words at the moment. 343i knows by now they need to balance them if they are to stay.
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I think the problem with this system is that all secondary (non-Primary weapon) additions would have to be balanced with each other, rather than simply with their peers. For example, the SMG would have to be worth it to sacrifice that extra grenade, which becomes problematic when balancing it with the AR. It also adds too much randomness for my tastes by allowing variations between the amount of grenades a player spawns with/whether or not he/she has a sidearm at-spawn.

I personally feel we should just have a set and predictable arsenal selection (including amount of each). My idea is this:

Primaries
Assault Rifle, Battle Rifle, Storm Rifle, Covenant Carbine

Secondaries
Magnum, SMG, Needle Pistol, or Plasma Rifle

Frag grenades only

No Equipment/AAs at-spawn

No 'perks'
They would need to nerf these two slightly, more so the plasma rifle. Also, I like the idea of a Needle Pistol.
Your idea won't work.
Why?
Because players aren't equal.
Keep in mind, that equal starts doesn't necessarily mean identical starts.

With your proposed setup, one player may spawn with a Magnum and 4 Stickies.
While the other may spawn with an AR, BR, and 1 Frag.
Obviously, the two aren't equal.
Player 1 has the ability to single-handedly destroy two Warthogs.
While Player 2 is able to better compete against other players.

These two players are now spawning with the equipment to take on completely different situations.
In an Arena Shooter, such as Halo 1-3, players spawn completely identical.
Many have compromised and decided that equal, non-identical, starts can work.

When designing Custom Loadouts in Halo, one must be certain that no option functions differently from another alternative.
Therefore, Custom Loadouts in Halo should be setup as follows:

Primary Weapon:
Choice of any mid-range weapon that doesn't have a significant advantage over its alternatives.
Example: BR or Covenant Carbine

Secondary Weapon:
Choice of any close-range weapon that doesn't have a significant advantage over its alternatives.
Example: AR or Plasma Rifle
( Other weapons that would serve as balanced alternatives include the Suppressor, Storm Rifle, Plasma Repeater, or SMG. )

The only Grenades we know are Frag, Sticky, Spike, Firebomb, and Pulse.
Sticky functions similarly to Spike.
Firebomb functions similarly to Pulse.
Frag is unique.
Therefore, grenades cannot be an option.

Equipment/AAs are designed to function completely different from one another.
Therefore, this cannot be an option.
Quote:
Your idea won't work.
Why?
Because players aren't equal.
Keep in mind, that equal starts doesn't necessarily mean identical starts.

With your proposed setup, one player may spawn with a Magnum and 4 Stickies.
While the other may spawn with an AR, BR, and 1 Frag.
Obviously, the two aren't equal.
Player 1 has the ability to single-handedly destroy two Warthogs.
While Player 2 is able to better compete against other players.

These two players are now spawning with the equipment to take on completely different situations.
In an Arena Shooter, such as Halo 1-3, players spawn completely identical.
Many have compromised and decided that equal, non-identical, starts can work.

When designing Custom Loadouts in Halo, one must be certain that no option functions differently from another alternative.
Therefore, Custom Loadouts in Halo should be setup as follows:

Primary Weapon:
Choice of any mid-range weapon that doesn't have a significant advantage over its alternatives.
Example: BR or Covenant Carbine

Secondary Weapon:
Choice of any close-range weapon that doesn't have a significant advantage over its alternatives.
Example: AR or Plasma Rifle
( Other weapons that would serve as balanced alternatives include the Suppressor, Storm Rifle, Plasma Repeater, or SMG. )


The only Grenades we know are Frag, Sticky, Spike, Firebomb, and Pulse.
Sticky functions similarly to Spike.
Firebomb functions similarly to Pulse.
Frag is unique.
Therefore, grenades cannot be an option.

Equipment/AAs are designed to function completely different from one another.
Therefore, this cannot be an option.
Why do you think primary loadout weapons must be exclusively mid-ranged precision rifles? Likewise, why do you think the secondary loadout weapons must be exclusively short-ranged automatic weapons; and where do weapons like the Magnum fit into this vision of yours?
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Your idea won't work.
Why?
Because players aren't equal.
Keep in mind, that equal starts doesn't necessarily mean identical starts.

With your proposed setup, one player may spawn with a Magnum and 4 Stickies.
While the other may spawn with an AR, BR, and 1 Frag.
Obviously, the two aren't equal.
Player 1 has the ability to single-handedly destroy two Warthogs.
While Player 2 is able to better compete against other players.

These two players are now spawning with the equipment to take on completely different situations.
In an Arena Shooter, such as Halo 1-3, players spawn completely identical.
Many have compromised and decided that equal, non-identical, starts can work.

When designing Custom Loadouts in Halo, one must be certain that no option functions differently from another alternative.
Therefore, Custom Loadouts in Halo should be setup as follows:

Primary Weapon:
Choice of any mid-range weapon that doesn't have a significant advantage over its alternatives.
Example: BR or Covenant Carbine

Secondary Weapon:
Choice of any close-range weapon that doesn't have a significant advantage over its alternatives.
Example: AR or Plasma Rifle
( Other weapons that would serve as balanced alternatives include the Suppressor, Storm Rifle, Plasma Repeater, or SMG. )


The only Grenades we know are Frag, Sticky, Spike, Firebomb, and Pulse.
Sticky functions similarly to Spike.
Firebomb functions similarly to Pulse.
Frag is unique.
Therefore, grenades cannot be an option.

Equipment/AAs are designed to function completely different from one another.
Therefore, this cannot be an option.
Why do you think primary loadout weapons must be exclusively mid-ranged precision rifles? Likewise, why do you think the secondary loadout weapons must be exclusively short-ranged automatic weapons; and where do weapons like the Magnum fit into this vision of yours?
I would have included DMR, LR, and NR, but spawning with weapons that are overly useful at long range has proven to cause stagnation.

The Primary Weapon must only allow mid-range precision weapons because they behave and function similarly.
Same goes for short-range automatics.

If a player spawns with a BR and an AR, he won't have any significant advantages over someone who's using a Carbine and a Plasma Rifle.

Halo was originally identical starts.
Many would prefer identical starts.
However, many are willing to compromise.
So rather than having identical starts, most will accept equal starts.

In order for equal starts to exist, no alternative option may have any significant advantage over another.
Which also dictates similar function.

The BR has no significant advantage when compared to the Carbine, and vice versa.
The AR has no significant advantage when compared to the Plasma Rifle, and vice versa.

Plasma Grenades, however, have a significant advantage when compared to Frags.

As for the Magnum, I'd say we make it more like the CE Magnum, but as a pickup.
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The BR has no significant advantage when compared to the Carbine, and vice versa.
The AR has no significant advantage when compared to the Plasma Rifle, and vice versa.

Plasma Grenades, however, have a significant advantage when compared to Frags.

As for the Magnum, I'd say we make it more like the CE Magnum, but as a pickup.
What I was asking was why do you believe that it is a broken concept to allow for the choice between a precision or automatic primary weapon? I'm fully in agreement that the BR and CC (and AR/SR) are justifiable, but what makes the AR in such a different class than the BR?
I actually like this idea, but it would require a great amount of thought to get it to work properly. Here are some questions that would need to be answered in order to implement this and have it work well:

How many points does one get to allocate to a loadout?
How many points does each item cost?
What sort of limits need to be put on loadout options?
Are there any OP or UP combinations?
.
.
.
Primaries:

Assault Rifle, Storm Rifle, Plasma Rifle, SMG, Suppressor, any new non-scoped weapon they decide to add. (No scoped weapons, creates an unbalanced playing field)

The plasma rifle and storm rifle could be given advantages and disadvantages.
Same goes for the assault rifle and the SMG

Secondaries:

Magnum, anything else they decide to add. (Plasma pistol is the anti vehicle and should picked up, the boltshot is a -Yoink- shotgun)

Grenades:

Frags only

My personal opinion.
Quote:
Here's my input I always say:

-Keep loadouts and balance them better
-Remove personal ordinance forever
-AA's as map pickups except sprint
-Power weapons drop in maps
-Design well made maps for all of this
Agreed,

And PERKS also need to be gone forever.

We can have custom loadouts and the game be still balanced and return to an Arena Shooter.

Halo 4 current loadouts system dos not do this.
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Quote:
Your idea won't work.
Why?
Because players aren't equal.
Keep in mind, that equal starts doesn't necessarily mean identical starts.

With your proposed setup, one player may spawn with a Magnum and 4 Stickies.
While the other may spawn with an AR, BR, and 1 Frag.
Obviously, the two aren't equal.
Player 1 has the ability to single-handedly destroy two Warthogs.
While Player 2 is able to better compete against other players.

These two players are now spawning with the equipment to take on completely different situations.
In an Arena Shooter, such as Halo 1-3, players spawn completely identical.
Many have compromised and decided that equal, non-identical, starts can work.

When designing Custom Loadouts in Halo, one must be certain that no option functions differently from another alternative.
Therefore, Custom Loadouts in Halo should be setup as follows:

Primary Weapon:
Choice of any mid-range weapon that doesn't have a significant advantage over its alternatives.
Example: BR or Covenant Carbine

Secondary Weapon:
Choice of any close-range weapon that doesn't have a significant advantage over its alternatives.
Example: AR or Plasma Rifle
( Other weapons that would serve as balanced alternatives include the Suppressor, Storm Rifle, Plasma Repeater, or SMG. )


The only Grenades we know are Frag, Sticky, Spike, Firebomb, and Pulse.
Sticky functions similarly to Spike.
Firebomb functions similarly to Pulse.
Frag is unique.
Therefore, grenades cannot be an option.

Equipment/AAs are designed to function completely different from one another.
Therefore, this cannot be an option.
Why do you think primary loadout weapons must be exclusively mid-ranged precision rifles? Likewise, why do you think the secondary loadout weapons must be exclusively short-ranged automatic weapons; and where do weapons like the Magnum fit into this vision of yours?
I would have included DMR, LR, and NR, but spawning with weapons that are overly useful at long range has proven to cause stagnation.

The Primary Weapon must only allow mid-range precision weapons because they behave and function similarly.
Same goes for short-range automatics.

If a player spawns with a BR and an AR, he won't have any significant advantages over someone who's using a Carbine and a Plasma Rifle.

Halo was originally identical starts.
Many would prefer identical starts.
However, many are willing to compromise.
So rather than having identical starts, most will accept equal starts.

In order for equal starts to exist, no alternative option may have any significant advantage over another.
Which also dictates similar function.

The BR has no significant advantage when compared to the Carbine, and vice versa.
The AR has no significant advantage when compared to the Plasma Rifle, and vice versa.

Plasma Grenades, however, have a significant advantage when compared to Frags.

As for the Magnum, I'd say we make it more like the CE Magnum, but as a pickup.
Agreed. if the next Halo is to be an Arena Shooter which it should be. This you require Equal Starts. As said by GHOST and Pureeey and many other people. Equal does not mean identical.

As long as our loadouts are balanced. Then weapons loadout mentioned below in Yellow would be the perfect solution. Remove Perks and have AA/Equipment on maps. And I think we have a winner.

Primaries
Battle Rifle
Covenant Carbine
Storm Rifle
Assault Rifle

Secondaries
Magnum
Needle Pistol
SMG
Plasma Rifle

Frag grenades only

No Equipment/AAs at-spawn

No 'perks'
Hmm I'd rather have NO loadouts at all, but if we must have them then I think you should ONLY be able to choose the primary weapon. Only pistol and frags for starting secondary/grenades. No starting equipment/AAs or whatever. NO tactical packages or support upgrades in the game at all. For the Primary weapon you could choose between perhaps the AR and BR, but even that seems like too much choice to me. No loadouts would be much better.
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Hmm I'd rather have NO loadouts at all, but if we must have them then I think you should ONLY be able to choose the primary weapon. Only pistol and frags for starting secondary/grenades. No starting equipment/AAs or whatever. NO tactical packages or support upgrades in the game at all. For the Primary weapon you could choose between perhaps the AR and BR, but even that seems like too much choice to me. No loadouts would be much better.
I completely agree with the statement above marked in Yellow.

The only problem with having forced loadouts like we did in HCE, H2 and H3. Is that people wanted SMG(H2)/AR(H3) starts or BR Starts (H2/H3). And many people would quit if they didn't get the choice they liked.

Forced Loadouts is best for an Arena Shooter and definitly makes sure when the game starts everyone is equal. But the new loadout system mentioned by GHOST and others would still be very balanced. And if a Player preferred AR start to BR, then they would have that choice.

As long as PERKS are nor more and AA/Equipment are located on maps. Then Halo should feel like an Arena Shooter again. But still consist someof the new features from HR and H4. The games needs to evolve.