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Remember when players Fought for the warthog

OP Nofunnyideas

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Remember when the scorpion was a weapon of pure power and terror.
Tank beats everything! Lol. not any more
Here's the thing with vehicles, folks:

Vehicles were nerfed after Halo 3 for a reason. This reason being that they were getting a large number of kills. Well, that may be their intended purpose but the issue is this... Newer, inexperienced, or just bad players found they could not destroy a vehicle by simply shooting at it.

In Halo 3, taking out a warthog on Standoff could be a tricky thing to do if the enemy driver knows their stuff. At your disposal were 2 plasma grenades on fast respawn, a power drain on a 30 or 60 second respawn, a plasma pistol, and rockets on a 3 minute respawn.

This is all assuming the enemy got the laser. This is just stuff on your side of the map. So with so many ways to take out a vehicle why did so many players fail to do it? Put simply, it required planning and thought. You had to outsmart the enemy driver, anticipate his or her route, and coordinate with your team.

Vehicles are useless because the majority of players simply couldn't handle strong vehicles in the game.

We have people complaining about farming now? What if vehicles could shrug off sniper, br, and dmr rounds like they were nothing?

Vehicles were nerfed because the community wouldn't survive if they maintained their strength. It's the same reason Bungie did away with the 1-50 ranking system and introduced seasons, because "people didn't like being told they weren't the best."

Essentially, many things in Halo have changed over time to suit the needs of people's inadequacy to deal with certain things.
What I'm not the best, brightest star? *kicks dirt* I HATE HALO 5!
When it comes to BTB, I do see this as a problem.

The issue for the gunner is that there is no spread on precision weapons and the intent is that gunners swap to the passenger seat to regain shields. The turret is "balanced" for peppering runs and ranged suppression shots, and it's the exposure of the turret with that combo that players like to avoid. Precise shooters can comfortably down a turret user within 5 shots most times, and teamshooting can make it it an insta-death. Swapping seats barely matters against moderately skilled shooters or cooperative teams.

I would like to have the turret user gain Auto-Medic, and perhaps Upgraded Shields, or a regenerating Reach-like bubble shield (NOT on the chassis). Auto-Med+Upgraded for Mongoose/Gungoose jockeys, but not bubble/2nd layer.

Lone Wolf snipers do indeed lose their glory 1 shot saves on undamaged turret users, it's but one small price to pay to promote the vehicles' use and teamshooting.
Too blanketed, not enough talk about how vehicles function in CE through H3, acts as though each game was perfect in its own sandbox, and uses "simply" when it's not so. Coordinated teams absolutely dominate against a team of individuals in your example given. Will for nearly every example given.

A coordinated team of experienced but non-BTB.NET players will contain a team of non-communicating BTB.NET players in their Stand-off bases more often than not. And that is something MANY do not consider.

Finding ways to still reward teams without punishing individuals is the intent of the changes, most times. It's just salt to tie it all together as "Punish the hardcore player."
Speaking of the warthog if you make sure the marines that start outside the base on apex 7 survive the lockdown you can get them on the gun of a warthog. They are op as all hell and you get the kills. Had fun doing that with a friend one time.
When it comes to BTB, I do see this as a problem.

The issue for the gunner is that there is no spread on precision weapons and the intent is that gunners swap to the passenger seat to regain shields. The turret is "balanced" for peppering runs and ranged suppression shots, and it's the exposure of the turret with that combo that players like to avoid. Precise shooters can comfortably down a turret user within 5 shots most times, and teamshooting can make it it an insta-death. Swapping seats barely matters against moderately skilled shooters or cooperative teams.

I would like to have the turret user gain Auto-Medic, and perhaps Upgraded Shields, or a regenerating Reach-like bubble shield (NOT on the chassis). Auto-Med+Upgraded for Mongoose/Gungoose jockeys, but not bubble/2nd layer.

Lone Wolf snipers do indeed lose their glory 1 shot saves on undamaged turret users, it's but one small price to pay to promote the vehicles' use and teamshooting.
Too blanketed, not enough talk about how vehicles function in CE through H3, acts as though each game was perfect in its own sandbox, and uses "simply" when it's not so. Coordinated teams absolutely dominate against a team of individuals in your example given. Will for nearly every example given.

A coordinated team of experienced but non-BTB.NET players will contain a team of non-communicating BTB.NET players in their Stand-off bases more often than not. And that is something MANY do not consider.

Finding ways to still reward teams without punishing individuals is the intent of the changes, most times. It's just salt to tie it all together as "Punish the hardcore player."
I never made any claims concerning the games and their respective sandboxes. I gave an example of how, on the map where the warthog was most relevant, there existed plenty of anti vehicle ordnance. But this stuff required knowledge on behalf of the user, something which was generally lacking. Vehicles were even more common and unforgiving in Halo 1 and 2.

I understand the team vs individual balance but it's been overdone. Warthogs are a joke and banshees, phaetons, and wasps are the only relevant vehicles in the game.

What I'm saying is that, in many cases, the game would literally hand you 4 anti vehicle weapons. It's not the games fault if you can't get it done. And team coordination has little to do with it, warthogs, for example, could still be massively relevant even when searching solo.
Speaking of the warthog if you make sure the marines that start outside the base on apex 7 survive the lockdown you can get them on the gun of a warthog. They are op as all hell and you get the kills. Had fun doing that with a friend one time.
Ok now I must try this! I've never seen a hog driving around with a marine on in warzone.
When it comes to BTB, I do see this as a problem.

The issue for the gunner is that there is no spread on precision weapons and the intent is that gunners swap to the passenger seat to regain shields. The turret is "balanced" for peppering runs and ranged suppression shots, and it's the exposure of the turret with that combo that players like to avoid. Precise shooters can comfortably down a turret user within 5 shots most times, and teamshooting can make it it an insta-death. Swapping seats barely matters against moderately skilled shooters or cooperative teams.

I would like to have the turret user gain Auto-Medic, and perhaps Upgraded Shields, or a regenerating Reach-like bubble shield (NOT on the chassis). Auto-Med+Upgraded for Mongoose/Gungoose jockeys, but not bubble/2nd layer.

Lone Wolf snipers do indeed lose their glory 1 shot saves on undamaged turret users, it's but one small price to pay to promote the vehicles' use and teamshooting.
Too blanketed, not enough talk about how vehicles function in CE through H3, acts as though each game was perfect in its own sandbox, and uses "simply" when it's not so. Coordinated teams absolutely dominate against a team of individuals in your example given. Will for nearly every example given.

A coordinated team of experienced but non-BTB.NET players will contain a team of non-communicating BTB.NET players in their Stand-off bases more often than not. And that is something MANY do not consider.

Finding ways to still reward teams without punishing individuals is the intent of the changes, most times. It's just salt to tie it all together as "Punish the hardcore player."
I never made any claims concerning the games and their respective sandboxes. I gave an example of how, on the map where the warthog was most relevant, there existed plenty of anti vehicle ordnance. But this stuff required knowledge on behalf of the user, something which was generally lacking. Vehicles were even more common and unforgiving in Halo 1 and 2.

I understand the team vs individual balance but it's been overdone. Warthogs are a joke and banshees, phaetons, and wasps are the only relevant vehicles in the game.

What I'm saying is that, in many cases, the game would literally hand you 4 anti vehicle weapons. It's not the games fault if you can't get it done. And team coordination has little to do with it, warthogs, for example, could still be massively relevant even when searching solo.
This is definitely part of my issues.

plasma nades placed all over the map on a 20 second respawn after their picked up. A rocket launcher on a 3 minute respawn and a pp both sides, a laser mid map. should be enough anti vehicle weapons. Notice how the laser is no longer desperately fought for either? In old btb games players really wanted to control that laser. Now it's the last power weapon to be picked up.

I don't really even mind being able to team shot a warthog to kill it but it's just way to fast. Good players can accomplish more on their feet with BR's now than they can jumping into a warthog that gets shredded from anyone shooting at it with anything across the map.

On on top of it all warthoggin is really fun. It's a vehicle unique to the halo franchise. I just think 343 has made a mistake with the way they've handled this vehicle outside of warzone. Players should be encouraged to get into one, in btb they are not.
JackGilb wrote:
It's all because of the BR. It has greater range than the hog turret, and the lack of protection the gunner has doesn't help.
Not just the BR, but the bullet magnetism in general. The gunner if very, very exposed as well, the head is exposed from every angle.
I never made any claims concerning the games and their respective sandboxes.
I know. It doesn't include thoughts like the lock onto everything Rocks in H2 & Missiles in H3, or the Splaser in H3, as far as games making it easier to deal with vehicles and what was once the way.

It doesn't address the vehicle damaging H3AR that can be used to teamshoot vehicles, but is often thrown away for another weapon that likely doesn't damage vehicles, making a large meta-game choice within BTB matches that reduces diversity, not promotes it.

It's more than "simply."
It's not the games fault if you can't get it done. And team coordination has little to do with it, warthogs, for example, could still be massively relevant even when searching solo.
A vehicle needing coordination was still "massivley" relevant in a game where you couldn't easily swap between driver and gunner? "Relatively" is at best, the best word.
If you mean you could set up shop as a LW from the distance and control spawns outside the Stand-off bases as long as your team had the Splaser because every other PW or anti-vehicle weapon is too slow to counter at that distance, I conceded a half truth. The other half being, if you were a full team, you could be just 1 player, allowing a communicative free player to help contain spawns.
The problem is though that they have made kill times so much faster than any other game in the series already. Any faster and it just feels cheap IMO. The ONI hog is a perfect example of this. They need to rework the kill times in the next game. Slow them down. It's getting dangerously close to twitch shooters. First shot matters more in this game than it does in any other Halo game.

Obviously they have been decreased at least partly due to the increased movement abilities and greater escapability. That's a negative of the increase movement systems though. Its a perfect example of the domino effect that mechanics have. Adding Thruster and unlimited Sprint fundamentally change the way that the game has to be balanced.


plasma nades placed all over the map on a 20 second respawn after their picked up. A rocket launcher on a 3 minute respawn and a pp both sides, a laser mid map. should be enough anti vehicle weapons. Notice how the laser is no longer desperately fought for either? In old btb games players really wanted to control that laser. Now it's the last power weapon to be picked up.

Just a thought;
Halo3's gameplay is the slowest of all the Halos. H5 is amongst the quickest. The Endgame is a better on-map weapon than the default Splaser relative to gameplay. Perhaps, if the Splaser was quickened by 30-40%, it would be used much more.
I agree lower level vehicles are not worth it in Halo 5 they get destroyed almost immediately.


plasma nades placed all over the map on a 20 second respawn after their picked up. A rocket launcher on a 3 minute respawn and a pp both sides, a laser mid map. should be enough anti vehicle weapons. Notice how the laser is no longer desperately fought for either? In old btb games players really wanted to control that laser. Now it's the last power weapon to be picked up.

Just a thought;
Halo3's gameplay is the slowest of all the Halos. H5 is amongst the quickest. The Endgame is a better on-map weapon than the default Splaser relative to gameplay. Perhaps, if the Splaser was quickened by 30-40%, it would be used much more.
Great idea!

and all these changes are very simple to do as the variants already exist :)
I do.

But now they usually sit parked in BTB gathering dust. Only exception being the gauss, at least there is a fight over that one.

The vehicles in BTB are no where near as relevant as they used to be. The hog was feared, you never challenged it or you got shredded.

Now 2 or 3 players can team shot a hog or ghost and melt it in no time.

I would propose that you start putting the variants in btb for vehicles. Ie a tundra hog the frozen map, a corp hog on the remake from halo 3 with the 2 satellites (sorry, I don't play btb enough to know the names. Partly because the vehicle play is not really as good as it used to be). They take considerably more damage than the basic hog.

Upgrade all ghosts to sword ghosts.

It saddens me to see all those vehicles just sitting there gathering dust. No way a hog would stay parked for half a game in halo 2-3.

I dont mind the gunner so easy to shoot as the turret is much more powerful now and we can seat swap. But we need these vehicles to take a little bit more damage. They're so flimsy they've become irrelevant in the gamemode designed for their implementation.

Imo this would be a very easy fix. And it would help make vehicle play relevant again. The warthog is a halo icon. Let's figure out a way to get them back in play in btb.

just a little suggestion from someone who used to love btb. But finds it no where near up to standard in halo 5. Arena and warzone are so good. Btb needs to be brought up to the same level.

Edit: also why don't the wheelmen medals count for assists anymore? A driver could be mvp of the game. Be responsible for his gunner getting an invincible and he would be sitting at the bottom of the carnage report with maybe a couple splatters. At least some form of acknowledgment would be nice.
Maybe in halo 3 when I was a kid and was like ooooooooo big gun! When I got to reach and got better at the game I realized the warthog was not necessary it could of been used yes but not needed especially if a had a team. I do know what you mean though halo 5 it's to easy to take out a warthog but I guess I kinda felt that in halo reach too
Lol one time this random and I raced for the Gauss Hog and he beat me to it. But nobody wanted to drive him. So because I felt like being a jackass, I tossed a couple frags and blew up the Warthog.

This kid was FURIOUS. He sent me a voice message and flamed me. But he had a British accent so I didn't take it seriously. I just laughed for like 10 minutes straight with my friends.

Ahhh, Junior year memories.
Lol one time this random and I raced for the Gauss Hog and he beat me to it. But nobody wanted to drive him. So because I felt like being a jackass, I tossed a couple frags and blew up the Warthog.

This kid was FURIOUS. He sent me a voice message and flamed me. But he had a British accent so I didn't take it seriously. I just laughed for like 10 minutes straight with my friends.

Ahhh, Junior year memories.
When I'm playing solo I actively try and avoid the warthog. I just hope a couple players in party jump in it. Talking to your gunner is crucial.

Unless I hear over the mic "anyone wanna drive?" Then I'm all over that.
Not sure what you're talking about because when I play BTB if I can get a good 2 other players(one for the chaingun and one for the passenger in case the chaingunner dies), then we can drive around racking up kills easily. It's one of my favorite parts of BTB
Simple. Because now there's sprint.

That's what people don't get: Sprint fundamentally affects the game. You can no longer run backwards away from players running towards you at an equal speed. There's no longer much need for man cannons. There's not much need for vehicles, other than maybe flying ones. And much more elements that you see dumbed down in arena.

It's all. Because of sprint. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, that's how why the game is how it is.
Lol one time this random and I raced for the Gauss Hog and he beat me to it. But nobody wanted to drive him. So because I felt like being a jackass, I tossed a couple frags and blew up the Warthog.

This kid was FURIOUS. He sent me a voice message and flamed me. But he had a British accent so I didn't take it seriously. I just laughed for like 10 minutes straight with my friends.

Ahhh, Junior year memories.
When I'm playing solo I actively try and avoid the warthog. I just hope a couple players in party jump in it. Talking to your gunner is crucial.

Unless I hear over the mic "anyone wanna drive?" Then I'm all over that.
Yeah I never go out of my way to get a Warthog unless I'm in a party with my friends. Every time I make the mistake of trusting someone to drive or shoot the result is a disaster. I've lost count of how many times I've been driven into a mess of opponents or off the map.
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