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REQ System "Unintrusive"?

OP MyNamesFuRii

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people saying "it's ok, bc you can unlock everything without spending money" .... so you think the star wars battlefront 2 system was ok then? bc you could unlock everything without spending money. do you realize that you are defending EA with that excuse too and every other pay2win system, where you can unlock everything without spending money, no matter how long it takes?

the req system is intrusive. in warzone it even affects gameplay with weapon unlucking and the ammount you have. and in arena it's also intrusive, bc every piece of customization is bound to the req system. it's also very prominent featured overall in the game. it always shows you, that you're earning req points. it's a big featured menu everywhere. it's designed to get you to recognize it and spend money on it, no matter which game mode you play.
it maybe even the reason BTB is now just a byproduct. and the "DLC": reskined maps and new skins could hardly count as real DLC
Recently Frank O’Connor stated this about the REQ system "We watched the EA battlefront thing with the curiosity you'd expect - but our current req system is player focused and well liked and unintrusive as far as these things go."

The game is built around the REQ System with no way to unlock armour or skins through a progression system, forcing you to go into the store just to open a pack. I personally find the system to be intrusive and I wanna hear everyone's thoughts on the matter. I'm honestly concerned that 343 sees their system as this even after the Battlefront 2 EA debacle.
intrusive in what way? can you be more specific?
LethalQ wrote:
LethalQ wrote:
Recently Frank O’Connor stated this about the REQ system "We watched the EA battlefront thing with the curiosity you'd expect - but our current req system is player focused and well liked and unintrusive as far as these things go."

The game is built around the REQ System with no way to unlock armour or skins through a progression system, forcing you to go into the store just to open a pack. I personally find the system to be intrusive and I wanna hear everyone's thoughts on the matter. I'm honestly concerned that 343 sees their system as this even after the Battlefront 2 EA debacle.
I'm with you Op! I personally find it intrusive. While this step may seem small to some 343i got there foot in the door with it.. And make no mistake they would even further push more towards it if it wasn't for the Battlefront debacle. Granted it wasn't as severe as what Battlefront2 tried. But I fear 343 would have push even more with it in H6. My question is where did Frank O'Connor think our current req system was "player focused and well liked"? It seems to me that statement is more then a stretch!! I think what he meant to say is our req system is working well because players bought things with real money! LOL..
Actually people like myself think it's not so bad because players don't have to spend money at all unless they want to. Nothing is behind a pay wall except for some cosmetics that don't even matter.
Doesn't matter to you, maybe. Sure, armor may not effect in-game statistics, but customization is important to a lot of people.

Getting all the achievements and their armor was what kept me going in Halo 3. Ranking up and buying the armor I want with credits kept me going in Reach. Grinding commendations for armor kept me going in Halo 4. And now I'm supposed to grind for loot boxes for a 2/1000 chance at getting the armor I want?

The problem isn't "I want it now!", the problem is that there is no 'Do X, get Y'. And I'm not going to drop $1000 to speed up the process like 343 wants me to.
And I and others already said had they had more earnable armors the req system would be better. Sadly they left very few earnable stuff, some emblems a couple of helmets and Achilles...ugh. The req system isn't that bad for us completionist because, kinda like reach, we would grind enough credits or points to get everything. With the req system just grind points and open silvers till they refund points instead of unlocks then grind for golds till they refund points instead of unlocks. Once you have everything it's easy to build points and reqs.
The problem with that is because of how much junk is thrown in there just to fluff up the loot boxes/extend that process. Just under 1000 possible unlocks from the packs is a bit ridiculous when you have no control and most is literal fluff.

If we could buy gear individually with REQ points for a fair price, that'd be more tolerable. But even then, it doesn't stop the poor quality of everything available.

With Halo 6, they have got to restore customization back to its former glory. Give back ten customization options with quality gear and a "Do X, get Y" method of obtainment.
COBRA R2 wrote:
I think by playing the game you get Rewarded with reqs and xp. Your saying you don't? Your rank is a 1. So have you ever played Halo 5 to have this opinion? Achilles Armor and Helmet gift's you reqs and xp . Not bad, the one thing you have to give 343 credit for is the amount of different game play you have. BTB you need no reqs, but WARZONE you do, and its great because you have to judge WHAT to use your reqs for, gives a little more strategy and excitement . You have to overcome when you choose wrong. The req system is kinda nice, and 343 has adjusted,lowered, it from time to time. But if you play, your stockpile can grow, and grow. At this moment , over 2,000,000 reqs, because the system rewards those who play. I wish i could buy new WARZONE maps with my reqs...But hey, there is so many games to play you dont need the reqs. And besides Achilles and the 2 custom game helmets, what cant you get through playing?
I don't recall ever saying the system doesn't reward you with anything. It just doesn't reward you with anything worthwhile most of the time. I literally don't need to have played an hour of Halo 5 to understand the issues with the Req(aka lootbox) system because the issues are inherent to every lootbox system. They are all designed to test your patience in order to get you to buy lootboxes. That isn't an opinion, that is just what they are designed to do. As for Halo 5 specifically I've had my ear to the ground enough that I have heard enough about the system and complaints about it to have an opinion. The numerous: "I am level XX and I still don't have a bog basic DMR yet" threads come to mind both here and elsewhere.

As for Warzone I see no reason why the gamemode has to be tied to lootboxes in order to get what you enjoy out of it. MS/343 set it up the way it does now out of concern for their bottom line not the consumers benefit. And it doesn't matter if someone has no interest in Warzone, because they are still forced to interact with the system if they want cosmetics only now they have to sift through more items that are completely useless to them.

As I said before it doesn't really matter that you can technically get everything through playing because the Req and leveling system are actively designed to frustrate players into paying for lootboxes(its the entire basis of the business model only without the free to play aspect as a fair tradeoff). If a person has a handful of cosmetic items they want and relatively limited time to play, then hiding said items between dozens and dozens of hours of grinding and huge piles of lootboxes might as well be a paywall.

Long story short there is nothing in Warzone that can't be accomplished using different mechanics without using lootboxes and there is no reason we can't use a Titanfall model of microtransactions to avoid paid DLC instead of lootboxes. There is no consumer friendly argument for lootboxes.
fizzy14 wrote:
It hasn't intruded on any aspects of my gameplay.
I disagree, it has intruded on everyones gameplay. Imagine how much better BTB, arena (or should i say normal halo multiplayer) and other fan liked gamemodes would be if 343 didnt create a monetised gamemode designed to leech off your wallet..
Yeah, that is what I was trying to say. Too many people don't realize how far-reaching the effects of the req system have been on Halo 5's development.
GFG Dusty wrote:
intrusive in what way? can you be more specific?
Why not spend some time reading the posts in this thread? Lots of people have explained this already.
StuftRock1 wrote:
To be honest, the REQ system is intrusive, but not as much as BF2’s lootbox system was. It is intrusive in the fact that everything is unlocked from it. If you buy the game and decide you are going to completely avoid the REQ system, then you’ll be stuck with recruit armor and a couple basic loadouts forever. You won’t have access to any weapon skins, power weapons, vehicles, loadouts besides the basic Magnum and Assault Rifle, and xp boosts. You are required to use the req system if you want to really get anything or really get any kind of progression at all. A system like that is an intrusive system. If 343 must bring back the REQ system into Halo 6, it would need a massive overhaul. I would suggest something like this.As for being well liked and player focused, well I’m sorry but this is just plain wrong. It is very well HATED and is not player focused at all. It is money focused.

I’m going to summon ske7ch, GrimBrother One, and Unyshek here because there is some pretty good discussion here that I think they should see.
I totally agree with what you said!

The only problem is, that we’re not going to get an official statement from 343 concerning this topic...
Everytime so major news regarding Halo is dropped it happens everywhere but not on waypoint (sorry for my bad English, I’m from Germany and it’s like 6AM). Most of the time, for reasons beyond my comprehension, 343 is posting everything concerning their projects on a third party site like reddit instead of doing so here. On their own website. They created waypoint for the purpose of communicating with the players but horribly fail at doing so, everything is a bit of Canon from Grim here and some community stuff from ske7ch there but nothing really important.
Other developers actually ask their fans what they want in the next instalment or make something like a wishlist thread (à la Forza/Turn10), but it’s been a very long time since something like this has happened for Halo.

I‘m so sick of 343 saying things like ”we’ve listened to the community“, that’s -Yoink-!
They don’t reply to topics like the missing love for BTB, the Elite Megathread (at least last time I checked) or any wishes we post here. If they were really listening they would interact with us over these forums, they would let us be part in their development process or just ask ”Hey what are your wishes for the next game?“ , but none of this happens...

The best example for them ignoring all that is going on here is that Frankie said that the req system was well liked, if he would’ve scrolled through this forum only one time he would have seen that the majority of people actually disliked it and want a real progression system with skill and not luck based unlocks. But sure the req system made a -yoink- ton of money for them, so it was well liked???
Just because it sold well doesn’t mean it was liked, instead it scared away many people.

343 is going with a short term strategy here and they will surely get a backlash for that soon enough.
They should realise that if they want to keep Halo going for a while they shouldn’t do what makes the most money, but instead they should do what their customers want, otherwise they are going to crash really hard sooner or later.
How I imagine those wanting Lootboxes and MTs in Halo on the i343 staff, when fans do not utterly say "no" to loptboxes and MTs.

Although, I can stretch this far:
The game is developed without lootboxes implemented. No specific mode for them, nothing. A progress system inplace not relying on random chance.

Then, when the game is done, properly done.
They make a separate system with lootboxes. So when you get the game, you choose which system to use, and it's a one choice only. You're stuck with it if you regret it.
Obviously info has to be written how both systems work.

/Sarcasm
They created waypoint for the purpose of communicating with the players
Says who? I have never seen an explicit agenda for Waypoint, so I wouldn't really assume anything about its intended purpose. It's one thing to be upset about them not having a direct line of communication with the community, but you shouldn't make unwarranted assumptions. I don't think we've ever been promised more communication than we've received.

I‘m so sick of 343 saying things like ”we’ve listened to the community“, that’s -Yoink-!
They don’t reply to topics like the missing love for BTB, the Elite Megathread (at least last time I checked) or any wishes we post here. If they were really listening they would interact with us over these forums, they would let us be part in their development process or just ask ”Hey what are your wishes for the next game?“ , but none of this happens...
Listening people and directly responding to their concerns are two different things. If I was a big developer, I could think of numerous reasons to not respond to concerns that are not immediately and directly actionable. As much as not responding upsets people, giving them false hopes upsets them even more. And there are a lot of false hopes you can give when you can't speak on behalf of the entire development team, and you're discussing stuff happening potentially two, three years down the line.

I think 343i could do better with interacting with the community, but I've never thought responding more to complaint and wish threads on the forums would be the way to go.
fizzy14 wrote:
It hasn't intruded on any aspects of my gameplay.
I disagree, it has intruded on everyones gameplay. Imagine how much better BTB, arena (or should i say normal halo multiplayer) and other fan liked gamemodes would be if 343 didnt create a monetised gamemode designed to leech off your wallet..
Yeah, that is what I was trying to say. Too many people don't realize how far-reaching the effects of the req system have been on Halo 5's development.
GFG Dusty wrote:
intrusive in what way? can you be more specific?
Why not spend some time reading the posts in this thread? Lots of people have explained this already.
not talking about what other people said. I am asking what YOU meant. How i am supposed to guess what you are asking if you don't ask it.
tsassi wrote:
I think 343i could do better with interacting with the community, but I've never thought responding more to complaint and wish threads on the forums would be the way to go.
I understand what you're saying, and I wouldn't want them to give us false hope, but I think Noble Four just wants 343 to respond to Waypoint equally as much as they respond to Reddit and other outside websites. No more, no less.

Not to get off-topic, but I personally agree with that sentiment. Even if Waypoint isn't as populated, there are probably lots of people who post here and don't use Reddit or Twitter, and the fact that this is their official site should factor into it, too. I think it would be really nice if they responded to people on Waypoint as much as they respond to people on Reddit or Twitter.
GFG Dusty wrote:
not talking about what other people said. I am asking what YOU meant. How i am supposed to guess what you are asking if you don't ask it.
ok, but I didn't create this topic. I was only suggesting reading through it because other people have explained lots of reasons why the req system is intrusive. Not sure why you specifically want OP to do so, but it's fine.
I just want to earn my armor again...

And as long as they took time to develop the loot box system and gametypes around it, it intrudes on time for developing other parts of the game.
You have your answer in your own post:
"but our current req system is player focused and well liked and unintrusive as far as these things go"
Note the keyword: "as far as these things go".
Meaning: compared to other games' microtransaction systems, Halo 5 has one of the least worst.

It is true that req packs make Warzone 1.0 % pay to win. However, the significance of this is so little that I don't mind it, especially this long after launch when everyone has good stuff. But even with all this, I have to say that I agree with Frankies statement, at least mostly. Halo 5's req system really isn't intrusive. Halo Wars 2's Blitz pack system was intrusive, since you could buy packs and have a positive effect by them when playing ranked Blitz. Note the keyword again: one system is for social playlist, another system is for ranked playlist. Which one do you think deserves the intrusive title?
LethalQ wrote:
[...] Just because it does require a lot of play time to unlock everything doesn't make it intrusive.
Actually it does. It means they transformed H5G unlock system into a grind-fest. It's not fun to unlock stuff anymore and they made it boring on purpose to push for MTs in first place. If that's not intrusive I don't know what is.
You have your answer in your own post:
"but our current req system is player focused and well liked and unintrusive as far as these things go"
Note the keyword: "as far as these things go".
Meaning: compared to other games' microtransaction systems, Halo 5 has one of the least worst.
Is this what we're hoping for in Halo now, "the least worst"? I have seen people bringing this up, the "as far as things go" part of the quote, and I don't see how that makes the system any better. Why are we okay with a "not so bad as far as things go" system? No, no we should want a system worthy of our time and money. A complete at launch with achievement based goals, and cosmetics that you can be proud to wear. The fact that you are okay with this proves that the developers have worn us down enough over the years, and will continue to, in order to placate us into accepting a profit only loot system. The "gamer focused" is an illusion. No matter how you slice it, or try explain it away using semantics.
is true that req packs make Warzone 1.0 % pay to win. However, the significance of this is so little that I don't mind it, especially this long after launch when everyone has good stuff.
That's not so for the new player, or heck even some older players who still don't have things like the H2BR and DMR. I can't imagine coming into this game now and looking at the armors left to unlock. It is the very essence of the Req system to bloat the cosmetic library for the amount of time required get that one item that you might want to be exponential compared to the money spent. If that is not intrusive I don't know what is.

But even with all this, I have to say that I agree with Frankies statement, at least mostly.
Wow, I thought maybe we were making real progress, but with statements like this no wonder developers keep giving gamers this type of system. We take it, because we'll take anything. We take it because hey, it's not that bad, right?

If that's not intrusive I don't know what is.
Jinx, you owe me a coke.
LethalQ wrote:
[...] Just because it does require a lot of play time to unlock everything doesn't make it intrusive.
Actually it does. It means they transformed H5G unlock system into a grind-fest. It's not fun to unlock stuff anymore and they made it boring on purpose to push for MTs in first place. If that's not intrusive I don't know what is.
So? Reach was a grind fest to unlock stuff only difference is you got to pick specific items. It's not intrusive because you don't have to spend money for any game content except a few cosmetics. Every Halo brought changes to stuff.
LethalQ wrote:
LethalQ wrote:
[...] Just because it does require a lot of play time to unlock everything doesn't make it intrusive.
Actually it does. It means they transformed H5G unlock system into a grind-fest. It's not fun to unlock stuff anymore and they made it boring on purpose to push for MTs in first place. If that's not intrusive I don't know what is.
So? Reach was a grind fest to unlock stuff only difference is you got to pick specific items. It's not intrusive because you don't have to spend money for any game content except a few cosmetics. Every Halo brought changes to stuff.
Reach let you directly pick what you want (after reaching the appropiate rank). There were no microtransactions to just get stuff. You had to earn it.

Guardians is designed to infuriate you into purchasing REQ packs by rolling the dice for your armor, and the dice are typically stacked against you. You want EVA armor? Too bad, Seeker for you. Want Raijin? Too bad, Fenrir.
LethalQ wrote:
LethalQ wrote:
[...] Just because it does require a lot of play time to unlock everything doesn't make it intrusive.
Actually it does. It means they transformed H5G unlock system into a grind-fest. It's not fun to unlock stuff anymore and they made it boring on purpose to push for MTs in first place. If that's not intrusive I don't know what is.
So? Reach was a grind fest to unlock stuff only difference is you got to pick specific items. It's not intrusive because you don't have to spend money for any game content except a few cosmetics. Every Halo brought changes to stuff.
There is Reach grinding with clear goals ahead, and than there is H5G gambling system with even more grinding.

Reach had a linear and straight forward progression system with plenty of customization options to look forward to. You knew what you would get, when and how. You worked for a piece and yes, you had to collect credits - a lot of credits in fact - but you could safe them, there where daily and weekly objectives that helped you out, there were objectives with a lot of CRs attached to them and more importantly if you played well you got more. Also of course it took long! It was a way to keep playing and people kept playing because it was a ton of fun! Like a good RPG game can be fun even with a lot of grinding. H5G has nothing like that at all.

So again, yes: REQs are really annoying and intrusive, even outside of WZ.
Delta5931 wrote:
LethalQ wrote:
LethalQ wrote:
[...] Just because it does require a lot of play time to unlock everything doesn't make it intrusive.
Actually it does. It means they transformed H5G unlock system into a grind-fest. It's not fun to unlock stuff anymore and they made it boring on purpose to push for MTs in first place. If that's not intrusive I don't know what is.
So? Reach was a grind fest to unlock stuff only difference is you got to pick specific items. It's not intrusive because you don't have to spend money for any game content except a few cosmetics. Every Halo brought changes to stuff.
Reach let you directly pick what you want (after reaching the appropiate rank). There were no microtransactions to just get stuff. You had to earn it.

Guardians is designed to infuriate you into purchasing REQ packs by rolling the dice for your armor, and the dice are typically stacked against you. You want EVA armor? Too bad, Seeker for you. Want Raijin? Too bad, Fenrir.
So... Like I way back in this thread the real complaint is people are made because they can't get what they want right way. Just because you can't have excatly what you want doesn't make it intrusive really. Just unrewarding.
LethalQ wrote:
LethalQ wrote:
[...] Just because it does require a lot of play time to unlock everything doesn't make it intrusive.
Actually it does. It means they transformed H5G unlock system into a grind-fest. It's not fun to unlock stuff anymore and they made it boring on purpose to push for MTs in first place. If that's not intrusive I don't know what is.
So? Reach was a grind fest to unlock stuff only difference is you got to pick specific items. It's not intrusive because you don't have to spend money for any game content except a few cosmetics. Every Halo brought changes to stuff.
There is Reach grinding with clear goals ahead, and than there is H5G gambling system with even more grinding.

Reach had a linear and straight forward progression system with plenty of customization options to look forward to. You knew what you would get, when and how. You worked for a piece and yes, you had to collect credits - a lot of credits in fact - but you could safe them, there where daily and weekly objectives that helped you out, there were objectives with a lot of CRs attached to them and more importantly if you played well you got more. Also of course it took long! It was a way to keep playing and people kept playing because it was a ton of fun! Like a good RPG game can be fun even with a lot of grinding. H5G has nothing like that at all.

So again, yes: REQs are really annoying and intrusive, even outside of WZ.
So you had a lot of grinding in reach and a lot of grinding in H5...H5 has RP boost and Jack pots to help you...daily win packs, Spartan ranks packs, commendation packs, HCS free gold packs... All to help you.
LethalQ wrote:
Delta5931 wrote:
LethalQ wrote:
LethalQ wrote:
[...] Just because it does require a lot of play time to unlock everything doesn't make it intrusive.
Actually it does. It means they transformed H5G unlock system into a grind-fest. It's not fun to unlock stuff anymore and they made it boring on purpose to push for MTs in first place. If that's not intrusive I don't know what is.
CUT! [...] Just because you can't have excatly what you want doesn't make it intrusive really. Just unrewarding.
Well, it's unrewarding because it's intrusive I would say frankly, but semantics I guess! :)

Anyway, no. It's not as much the fact that you can't get what you want anymore (even though it's annoying as yoink), as much as the HOW you unlock the rewards. All the boosts in H5G don't matter as long as they're bout to a RNG-wall really. Personal customization is gone due to simplification and randomness of the REQ system and the overall value of the props you unlock is diminished as well due to how it works. It's as simple as that.
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