Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

Sharing a *WARZONE* thought

OP eLantern

I've always believed that the base level weapons and vehicles (at least UNSC ones) should have been automatically included (read: available) for everyone to use within the Warzone, Warzone Assault, and Warzone Firefight modes granted they earned the required REQ level in-game to call them in. I thought that the REQ items that you unlock within REQ packs should have been mostly reserved for the variants, non-UNSC items, power-ups, boosts, and most customization items. This way early participants and new-comers could still use a fairly wide variety of items, but they'd still be limited to the base level items until unlocking the potential use of their variants. I think it would have further decreased the REQ system's influence on match outcomes which is already somewhat limited by the manner in which the REQ system progressively builds REQ level in-game. If something like the Warzone environment returns in Infinite I hope this is something they give consideration too.

Here's a list:

Loadout

[basic] AR
[basic] BR
[basic] DMR
[basic] Magnum
[basic] SMG - reduce REQ cost to 3

Armor Mods

Frag Grenade Expert - reduce REQ cost to 2
Patrol Case

Power Weapons

[basic] Hydra Launcher - increase to REQ cost 5
[basic] Railgun
[basic] Grenade Launcher - increase to REQ cost 4
[basic] Rocket Launcher
[basic] SAW - increase to REQ cost 5
[basic] Shotgun
[basic] Sniper Rifle
[basic] Spartan Laser - increase to REQ cost 5
[basic] Chaingun Turret

Vehicles

[basic] Gungoose
[basic] Mongoose
[basic] Mantis - increase to REQ cost 6
[basic] Scorpion (Tank)
[basic] Scout Warthog
[basic] Warthog
[basic] Wasp - increase to REQ cost 5

The REQ cost increases are due to these items becoming readily available to everyone to use.
I definitely agree with you on the loadout weapons, but not totally convinced on everything else.
I honestly don't agree on certain req cost you provided. first off, basic level of hydra launcher its fine at 4, not at 5. Reason is simple, you'll need something to deal with early wasp or banshee.

Second, the spartan laser is actually where it needs to be (lvl 4). Again, you need something to deal with early vehicle spamming since a plasma pistol or a hydra is not even enough.

Third, basic wasp is already weak enough. increasing its cost would make it even more useless since you have better vehicles at 5 like banshee.

In addition, basic saw at 5 is also useless, you either have better weapons for the same req level or just pick the appetite of destruction since its an upgraded saw variant for the same cost.

Edit: increasing the cost due to certain items available would make an unbalanced impact due to not having certain items to deal with earlier vehicles
PeterAK91 wrote:
I honestly don't agree on certain REQ cost you provided. First off, basic level of Hydra Launcher its fine at 4, not at 5. Reason is simple, you'll need something to deal with early Wasp or Banshee.
I appreciate the response and welcome the feedback.

To this concern I point out that the base level Banshee and [now] Wasp (under my scenario of change) are available at REQ level 5 too so there shouldn't be a massive time frame where they can't be combated with the Hydra Launcher. Not to mention, any potential early dealings against those particular aerial vehicles can still be accomplished with Kinetic Bolts, Plasma Pistols, Sentinel Beam, Grenade Launchers, Railguns; plus, perhaps even the Talon of the Lost (Needler), Plasma Casters, and the Chaingun Turret. Also, worth mentioning that Random Weapon options could potentially land you with an item that's highly capable of countering a Banshee or Wasp.
Quote:
Second, the Spartan Laser is actually where it needs to be (lvl 4). Again, you need something to deal with early vehicle spamming since a Plasma Pistol or a Hydra is not even enough.
Again, you do offer a fairly valid concern, but in response I'd like to point out that of all the vehicles that can readily be called-in at REQ levels below 5 most of the counter options that I mentioned above can, more or less, appropriately deal with them. Are those options ideal? No, but they can, more often than not, get the job done if used correctly. If anything this would simply modify the meta that exists within the Warzone environment which can be viewed as a positive or negative change depending on one's subjective perspective.
Quote:
Third, basic Wasp is already weak enough. Increasing its cost would make it even more useless since you have better vehicles at 5 like Banshee.
That's part of the point though. It would be readily available to everyone at REQ level 5 despite their REQ collections, so the primary reason for people to choose it is because they don't have other available aerial options or they simply don't want to waste one of their personal REQ collection items. It effectively becomes a trade-off. They gain the usefulness and advantage of an aerial vehicle at a particular in-game REQ cost; yet, since it won't require the use of a player's personal REQ collection it's going to be less effective than its variant or other potential options at the same REQ cost.
Quote:
In addition, basic SAW at 5 is also useless, you either have better weapons for the same REQ level or just pick the Appetite of Destruction since its an upgraded SAW variant for the same cost.
This again is the point I'm making. If players have access to the variant they would readily choose that option because it's a more effective weapon, but if they don't have access to that variant or simply don't want to waste their collection item at that time then they (speaking about everyone) would at least have access to the basic level SAW as a Power Weapon option.
Quote:
EDIT: Increasing the cost due to certain items [being readily] available would make an unbalanced impact due to not having certain items to deal with earlier vehicles.
How so?

I sort of understand your concerns regarding weapons designed to counter vehicles, but absent that concern (which I've responded to above) what other imbalance are you concerned about?
eLantern wrote:
PeterAK91 wrote:
I honestly don't agree on certain REQ cost you provided. First off, basic level of Hydra Launcher its fine at 4, not at 5. Reason is simple, you'll need something to deal with early Wasp or Banshee.
I appreciate the response and welcome the feedback.

To this concern I point out that the base level Banshee and [now] Wasp (under my scenario of change) are available at REQ level 5 too so there shouldn't be a massive time frame where they can't be combated with the Hydra Launcher. Not to mention, any potential early dealings against those particular aerial vehicles can still be accomplished with Kinetic Bolts, Plasma Pistols, Sentinel Beam, Grenade Launchers, Railguns; plus, perhaps even the Talon of the Lost (Needler), Plasma Casters, and the Chaingun Turret. Also, worth mentioning that Random Weapon options could potentially land you with an item that's highly capable of countering a Banshee or Wasp.
Quote:
Second, the Spartan Laser is actually where it needs to be (lvl 4). Again, you need something to deal with early vehicle spamming since a Plasma Pistol or a Hydra is not even enough.
Again, you do offer a fairly valid concern, but in response I'd like to point out that of all the vehicles that can readily be called-in at REQ levels below 5 most of the counter options that I mentioned above can, more or less, appropriately deal with them. Are those options ideal? No, but they can, more often than not, get the job done if used correctly. If anything this would simply modify the meta that exists within the Warzone environment which can be viewed as a positive or negative change depending on one's subjective perspective.
Quote:
Third, basic Wasp is already weak enough. Increasing its cost would make it even more useless since you have better vehicles at 5 like Banshee.
That's part of the point though. It would be readily available to everyone at REQ level 5 despite their REQ collections, so the primary reason for people to choose it is because they don't have other available aerial options or they simply don't want to waste one of their personal REQ collection items. It effectively becomes a trade-off. They gain the usefulness and advantage of an aerial vehicle at a particular in-game REQ cost; yet, since it won't require the use of a player's personal REQ collection it's going to be less effective than its variant or other potential options at the same REQ cost.
Quote:
In addition, basic SAW at 5 is also useless, you either have better weapons for the same REQ level or just pick the Appetite of Destruction since its an upgraded SAW variant for the same cost.
This again is the point I'm making. If players have access to the variant they would readily choose that option because it's a more effective weapon, but if they don't have access to that variant or simply don't want to waste their collection item at that time then they would at least have access to the basic level SAW as a Power Weapon option.
Quote:
EDIT: Increasing the cost due to certain items available would make an unbalanced impact due to not having certain items to deal with earlier vehicles.
How so?

I sort of understand your concerns regarding weapons designed to counter vehicles, but absent that concern (which I've responded to above) what other imbalance are you concerned about?
While I do agree on having certatin reqs available at the start of the match simply because I've seen new players who are new to halo need to have at least the basic arsenal when it comes to warzone.

Now, I really appreciate the detailed data provided and I can already see why its a good idea on what I was opposing at first. I do want to mention that I play a lot Warzone and I forgot to mention one important detail to back my claim, Req energy. From all the updates and balances that Warzone has received, the req energy gained by a certain individual or team hasn't changed that much. Its important to considers these ideas under a balanced req energy gained per kill, minute, ect.

Why is this important?

I been in many situations where I'm up against a 10 or 12 man team when they absolute dominate the whole scenario. Take assault for example, where I been farmed by a good team with high tier vehicles like hannibal wasp and even phateon helios at the first 5 minutes while my team tries to cap the first base and we barely have access to lvl 4 reqs. That's the imbalanced I was concerned about. While this typical scenario might look like it rarely happens, it still happens. I'll also mention that I have benefit from this, if you kill alot, your req energy actually fills faster tho having an advantage on calling early powerful reqs. Warzone has become a place where it gets extremely sweaty, specially with the implementation of trueskill 2

As for what your proposing, yes, its a good idea but without the req energy gained being balanced for everyone, it will still be a hit or miss since todays warzone is full of teams spamming vehicles and or farming.
eLantern wrote:
I've always believed that the base level weapons and vehicles (at least UNSC ones) should have been automatically included (read: available) for everyone to use within the Warzone, Warzone Assault, and Warzone Firefight modes granted they earned the required REQ level in-game to call them in. I thought that the REQ items that you unlock within REQ packs should have been mostly reserved for the variants, non-UNSC items, power-ups, boosts, and most customization items. This way early participants and new-comers could still use a fairly wide variety of items, but they'd still be limited to the base level items until unlocking the potential use of their variants. I think it would have further decreased the REQ system's influence on match outcomes which is already somewhat limited by the manner in which the REQ system progressively builds REQ level in-game. If something like the Warzone environment returns in Infinite I hope this is something they give consideration too.

Here's a list:

Loadout [basic] AR
[basic] BR
[basic] DMR
[basic] Magnum
[basic] SMG - reduce REQ cost to 3

Armor Mods
Frag Grenade Expert - reduce REQ cost to 2
Patrol Case

Power Weapons [basic] Hydra Launcher - increase to REQ cost 5
[basic] Railgun
[basic] Grenade Launcher - increase to REQ cost 4
[basic] Rocket Launcher
[basic] SAW - increase to REQ cost 5
[basic] Shotgun
[basic] Sniper Rifle
[basic] Spartan Laser - increase to REQ cost 5
[basic] Chaingun Turret

Vehicles[basic] Gungoose
[basic] Mongoose
[basic] Mantis - increase to REQ cost 6
[basic] Scorpion (Tank)
[basic] Scout Warthog
[basic] Warthog
[basic] Wasp - increase to REQ cost 5

The REQ cost increases are due to these items becoming readily available to everyone to use.
I really like this idea I always felt that the base versions of reqs were often times made redundant due to the higher tier weapon being the same request cost. Example railgun and whiplash same level one way more useful and has more ammo and both lvl 4.

Why did you limit it only to UNSC weapons and vehicles? I could see other weapons being nice to have like the Carbine and Light Rifle. I don't use the Carbine much in warzone since they are hard to find from packs. Then the Light Rifle has limited ammo and is lvl 4 soo it gets out classed by other weapons. If they were available as loadout weapons would be nice and could bring a bit more variety
It would be nice to have all base lvl loadouts when you first start out for sure.

As for power weapons, i think you rack those up pretty quick.

But not having some base loadouts is a huge disadvantage imo & those should be given to everyone.
You do realize this would make alts extremely common

And then everyone would whine about that.
It probably wouldn't benefit 343 much if they did that because it would give less incentive to unlock things since almost all of those weapons and vehicles listed can work just fine to win a game. Maybe instead make all the base loadouts permanent, but just give them a bigger supply of base REQ's that could last them for 20-30 games or however appropriate.
PeterAK91 wrote:
I honestly don't agree on certain req cost you provided. first off, basic level of hydra launcher its fine at 4, not at 5. Reason is simple, you'll need something to deal with early wasp or banshee.

Second, the spartan laser is actually where it needs to be (lvl 4). Again, you need something to deal with early vehicle spamming since a plasma pistol or a hydra is not even enough.

Third, basic wasp is already weak enough. increasing its cost would make it even more useless since you have better vehicles at 5 like banshee.

In addition, basic saw at 5 is also useless, you either have better weapons for the same req level or just pick the appetite of destruction since its an upgraded saw variant for the same cost.

Edit: increasing the cost due to certain items available would make an unbalanced impact due to not having certain items to deal with earlier vehicles
I totally agree. Balance is key.