Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

Sharing some **WARZONE** thoughts

OP eLantern

I've always believed that new Spartans should automatically have access to certain base level UNSC items. This way early participants and new-comers could still use a fairly wide variety of items, but they'd still be limited to the base level items until unlocking the potential use of their variants and other options. I think it would have further decreased the REQ system's influence on match outcomes when dealing with players of various experience which is already somewhat limited by the manner in which the REQ system progressively builds REQ level in-game. If something like the Warzone environment returns in Infinite I hope this is something they give consideration too or maybe it's a change that could still be made for Halo 5 down the road.

Here's a list:

Loadout: Automatically Unlocked

[basic] AR
[basic] BR
[basic] DMR
[basic] Magnum
[basic] SMG - reduce REQ cost to 3

Armor Mods: Automatically Unlocked


Frag Grenade Expert - reduce REQ cost to 2
Patrol Case

Power Weapons: Certificate Automatically Unlocked. And players are granted an initial collection quantity of 20 for each.

[basic] Hydra Launcher
[basic] Railgun
[basic] Grenade Launcher
[basic] Rocket Launcher
[basic] SAW
[basic] Shotgun
[basic] Sniper Rifle
[basic] Spartan Laser
[basic] Chaingun Turret

Vehicles: Certificate Automatically Unlocked. And players are granted an initial collection quantity of 20 for each.

[basic] Gungoose
[basic] Mongoose
[basic] Mantis
[basic] Scorpion (Tank)
[basic] Scout Warthog
[basic] Warthog
[basic] Wasp

EDIT: Idea updated on 10-16-18 based on feedback.

On top of this let me just add that there are several other things I'd like/love to see too. I'd like to see the performance-based REQ boosts earned from dispatching of AI muted a bit more which would further emphasize the role of the REQ drip, anyone who get's JiP'd into an active match should receive a REQ level that’s approximately one level behind the highest player on the opposite team instead of some generic amount based on the round, I'd love to see an adjustment to how Warzone Assault works (see below), how AI Boss points are rewarded within the Warzone mode (see below); plus, an adjustment to the REQ costs of several Amor Mods as well as how the Patrol Case Armor Mod operates within the Firefight modes (see below). Not to mention, I've previously shared a thought with 343i in regards to making the Warzone environment and Forge (over the Xbox) free-to-play to those with an Xbox Live Gold membership and it touched on another shared thought relating to having more control over purchasing specific REQ items. Lastly, I'll just say that it'd be great if the Warzone maps were made available for 8v8 (or amazingly 12v12) custom games in which the REQ system is turned off, there's no PvE aspect, and no core endings, but you'll have the option to setup Slayer, CTF, Strongholds, and Assault matches (essentially the Big Team modes) with select vehicles and weaponry placed on the maps.

Warzone Assault: Teams are chosen for Offense/Defense, then after they fail or succeed, the teams should switch sides to see if the other team can do it better. Match ends during second team’s attempt the moment they improve or fail from what the first team accomplished; in other words, from the benchmark that was established by the first offensive team. Whatever the first team accomplishes the goal for the second team becomes to complete the same amount of tasks quicker or one more. Only way to tie would be to complete the same number of tasks by the exact same total time interval.

Warzone AI Boss Points: Update the awarding of AI Boss points based on three key factors: (1) landing the killing blow receives a specific fraction of the points, (2) divide the remaining points per the percentage of damage dealt by the two teams, and (3) the team that landed the killing blow has their points added to their team score first in order to ensure the importance of landing the killing blow come game-end with either team in position to win. Also, only show the life meter for Legendary and Mythic Bosses to those within close and medium-close proximity. This increases the difficulty of coordinating an effort to steal the killing blow from far away as a team member must remain within close-ish quarters while staying in constant communication.

Standard AI Bosses = 25 Total Points
  • 15 points aka 3/5 (60%) gets rewarded to the team that landed the killing blow.
  • 10 points aka 2/5 (40%) gets divided up per team based on percentages of damage dealt. (Example: a team that deals 65-74% of the damaged will be rewarded 7 points)
Legendary AI Bosses = 150 Total Points
  • 50 points aka 1/3 (33%) gets rewarded to the team that landed the killing blow.
  • 100 points aka 2/3 (67%) gets divided up per team based on percentages of damage dealt. (Example: a team that deals approximately 73% of the damaged will be rewarded 73 points)
Mythic AI Bosses = 200 Total Points
  • 100 points aka 1/2 (50%) gets rewarded to the team that landed the killing blow.
  • 100 points aka 1/2 (50%) gets divided up per team based on percentages of damage dealt. (Example: a team that deals approximately 73% of the damaged will be rewarded 73 points)
Armor Mod adjustments: Make all three Grenade Expert Armor Mods available at REQ level 2. This presents players an interesting equipment choice at REQ level 2. Have the Patrol Case, Reflex Enhancers, and Speed Booster available at REQ level 3. This presents players an interesting characteristic benefit at REQ level 3 if they elect to change from their level 2 grenade equipment benefit. Death from Above and Increased Strength should become available at REQ level 4. This is because these mods provide a direct increase in damage lethality (via the melee mechanic) for the user. Upgraded Thrusters, Auto-Medic, and Grenadier at REQ level 5 because they provide greater survivability to the user within an encounter. Advanced Sensors, Upgraded Shields, and Wheelman are available at REQ level 6. These three mods obviously grant big tactical advantages. Patrol Case should work slightly different within the Firefight modes. REQ Power Weapons should automatically receive extra reserve ammunition without having to equip the same Power Weapon twice. This is because the effective usefulness of Power Weapons within the Firefight modes are dramatically reduced compared to their effective usefulness in PvP modes. In other words, vehicles reign supreme within the Firefight modes.
I definitely agree with you on the loadout weapons, but not totally convinced on everything else.
I honestly don't agree on certain req cost you provided. first off, basic level of hydra launcher its fine at 4, not at 5. Reason is simple, you'll need something to deal with early wasp or banshee.

Second, the spartan laser is actually where it needs to be (lvl 4). Again, you need something to deal with early vehicle spamming since a plasma pistol or a hydra is not even enough.

Third, basic wasp is already weak enough. increasing its cost would make it even more useless since you have better vehicles at 5 like banshee.

In addition, basic saw at 5 is also useless, you either have better weapons for the same req level or just pick the appetite of destruction since its an upgraded saw variant for the same cost.

Edit: increasing the cost due to certain items available would make an unbalanced impact due to not having certain items to deal with earlier vehicles
PeterAK91 wrote:
I honestly don't agree on certain REQ cost you provided. First off, basic level of Hydra Launcher its fine at 4, not at 5. Reason is simple, you'll need something to deal with early Wasp or Banshee.
I appreciate the response and welcome the feedback.

To this concern I point out that the base level Banshee and [now] Wasp (under my scenario of change) are available at REQ level 5 too so there shouldn't be a massive time frame where they can't be combated with the Hydra Launcher. Not to mention, any potential early dealings against those particular aerial vehicles can still be accomplished with Kinetic Bolts, Plasma Pistols, Sentinel Beam, Grenade Launchers, Railguns; plus, perhaps even the Talon of the Lost (Needler), Plasma Casters, and the Chaingun Turret. Also, worth mentioning that Random Weapon options could potentially land you with an item that's highly capable of countering a Banshee or Wasp.
Quote:
Second, the Spartan Laser is actually where it needs to be (lvl 4). Again, you need something to deal with early vehicle spamming since a Plasma Pistol or a Hydra is not even enough.
Again, you do offer a fairly valid concern, but in response I'd like to point out that of all the vehicles that can readily be called-in at REQ levels below 5 most of the counter options that I mentioned above can, more or less, appropriately deal with them. Are those options ideal? No, but they can, more often than not, get the job done if used correctly. If anything this would simply modify the meta that exists within the Warzone environment which can be viewed as a positive or negative change depending on one's subjective perspective.
Quote:
Third, basic Wasp is already weak enough. Increasing its cost would make it even more useless since you have better vehicles at 5 like Banshee.
That's part of the point though. It would be readily available to everyone at REQ level 5 despite their REQ collections, so the primary reason for people to choose it is because they don't have other available aerial options or they simply don't want to waste one of their personal REQ collection items. It effectively becomes a trade-off. They gain the usefulness and advantage of an aerial vehicle at a particular in-game REQ cost; yet, since it won't require the use of a player's personal REQ collection it's going to be less effective than its variant or other potential options at the same REQ cost.
Quote:
In addition, basic SAW at 5 is also useless, you either have better weapons for the same REQ level or just pick the Appetite of Destruction since its an upgraded SAW variant for the same cost.
This again is the point I'm making. If players have access to the variant they would readily choose that option because it's a more effective weapon, but if they don't have access to that variant or simply don't want to waste their collection item at that time then they (speaking about everyone) would at least have access to the basic level SAW as a Power Weapon option.
Quote:
EDIT: Increasing the cost due to certain items [being readily] available would make an unbalanced impact due to not having certain items to deal with earlier vehicles.
How so?

I sort of understand your concerns regarding weapons designed to counter vehicles, but absent that concern (which I've responded to above) what other imbalance are you concerned about?
eLantern wrote:
PeterAK91 wrote:
I honestly don't agree on certain REQ cost you provided. First off, basic level of Hydra Launcher its fine at 4, not at 5. Reason is simple, you'll need something to deal with early Wasp or Banshee.
I appreciate the response and welcome the feedback.

To this concern I point out that the base level Banshee and [now] Wasp (under my scenario of change) are available at REQ level 5 too so there shouldn't be a massive time frame where they can't be combated with the Hydra Launcher. Not to mention, any potential early dealings against those particular aerial vehicles can still be accomplished with Kinetic Bolts, Plasma Pistols, Sentinel Beam, Grenade Launchers, Railguns; plus, perhaps even the Talon of the Lost (Needler), Plasma Casters, and the Chaingun Turret. Also, worth mentioning that Random Weapon options could potentially land you with an item that's highly capable of countering a Banshee or Wasp.
Quote:
Second, the Spartan Laser is actually where it needs to be (lvl 4). Again, you need something to deal with early vehicle spamming since a Plasma Pistol or a Hydra is not even enough.
Again, you do offer a fairly valid concern, but in response I'd like to point out that of all the vehicles that can readily be called-in at REQ levels below 5 most of the counter options that I mentioned above can, more or less, appropriately deal with them. Are those options ideal? No, but they can, more often than not, get the job done if used correctly. If anything this would simply modify the meta that exists within the Warzone environment which can be viewed as a positive or negative change depending on one's subjective perspective.
Quote:
Third, basic Wasp is already weak enough. Increasing its cost would make it even more useless since you have better vehicles at 5 like Banshee.
That's part of the point though. It would be readily available to everyone at REQ level 5 despite their REQ collections, so the primary reason for people to choose it is because they don't have other available aerial options or they simply don't want to waste one of their personal REQ collection items. It effectively becomes a trade-off. They gain the usefulness and advantage of an aerial vehicle at a particular in-game REQ cost; yet, since it won't require the use of a player's personal REQ collection it's going to be less effective than its variant or other potential options at the same REQ cost.
Quote:
In addition, basic SAW at 5 is also useless, you either have better weapons for the same REQ level or just pick the Appetite of Destruction since its an upgraded SAW variant for the same cost.
This again is the point I'm making. If players have access to the variant they would readily choose that option because it's a more effective weapon, but if they don't have access to that variant or simply don't want to waste their collection item at that time then they would at least have access to the basic level SAW as a Power Weapon option.
Quote:
EDIT: Increasing the cost due to certain items available would make an unbalanced impact due to not having certain items to deal with earlier vehicles.
How so?

I sort of understand your concerns regarding weapons designed to counter vehicles, but absent that concern (which I've responded to above) what other imbalance are you concerned about?
While I do agree on having certatin reqs available at the start of the match simply because I've seen new players who are new to halo need to have at least the basic arsenal when it comes to warzone.

Now, I really appreciate the detailed data provided and I can already see why its a good idea on what I was opposing at first. I do want to mention that I play a lot Warzone and I forgot to mention one important detail to back my claim, Req energy. From all the updates and balances that Warzone has received, the req energy gained by a certain individual or team hasn't changed that much. Its important to considers these ideas under a balanced req energy gained per kill, minute, ect.

Why is this important?

I been in many situations where I'm up against a 10 or 12 man team when they absolute dominate the whole scenario. Take assault for example, where I been farmed by a good team with high tier vehicles like hannibal wasp and even phateon helios at the first 5 minutes while my team tries to cap the first base and we barely have access to lvl 4 reqs. That's the imbalanced I was concerned about. While this typical scenario might look like it rarely happens, it still happens. I'll also mention that I have benefit from this, if you kill alot, your req energy actually fills faster tho having an advantage on calling early powerful reqs. Warzone has become a place where it gets extremely sweaty, specially with the implementation of trueskill 2

As for what your proposing, yes, its a good idea but without the req energy gained being balanced for everyone, it will still be a hit or miss since todays warzone is full of teams spamming vehicles and or farming.
eLantern wrote:
I've always believed that the base level weapons and vehicles (at least UNSC ones) should have been automatically included (read: available) for everyone to use within the Warzone, Warzone Assault, and Warzone Firefight modes granted they earned the required REQ level in-game to call them in. I thought that the REQ items that you unlock within REQ packs should have been mostly reserved for the variants, non-UNSC items, power-ups, boosts, and most customization items. This way early participants and new-comers could still use a fairly wide variety of items, but they'd still be limited to the base level items until unlocking the potential use of their variants. I think it would have further decreased the REQ system's influence on match outcomes which is already somewhat limited by the manner in which the REQ system progressively builds REQ level in-game. If something like the Warzone environment returns in Infinite I hope this is something they give consideration too.

Here's a list:

Loadout [basic] AR
[basic] BR
[basic] DMR
[basic] Magnum
[basic] SMG - reduce REQ cost to 3

Armor Mods
Frag Grenade Expert - reduce REQ cost to 2
Patrol Case

Power Weapons [basic] Hydra Launcher - increase to REQ cost 5
[basic] Railgun
[basic] Grenade Launcher - increase to REQ cost 4
[basic] Rocket Launcher
[basic] SAW - increase to REQ cost 5
[basic] Shotgun
[basic] Sniper Rifle
[basic] Spartan Laser - increase to REQ cost 5
[basic] Chaingun Turret

Vehicles[basic] Gungoose
[basic] Mongoose
[basic] Mantis - increase to REQ cost 6
[basic] Scorpion (Tank)
[basic] Scout Warthog
[basic] Warthog
[basic] Wasp - increase to REQ cost 5

The REQ cost increases are due to these items becoming readily available to everyone to use.
I really like this idea I always felt that the base versions of reqs were often times made redundant due to the higher tier weapon being the same request cost. Example railgun and whiplash same level one way more useful and has more ammo and both lvl 4.

Why did you limit it only to UNSC weapons and vehicles? I could see other weapons being nice to have like the Carbine and Light Rifle. I don't use the Carbine much in warzone since they are hard to find from packs. Then the Light Rifle has limited ammo and is lvl 4 soo it gets out classed by other weapons. If they were available as loadout weapons would be nice and could bring a bit more variety
It would be nice to have all base lvl loadouts when you first start out for sure.

As for power weapons, i think you rack those up pretty quick.

But not having some base loadouts is a huge disadvantage imo & those should be given to everyone.
You do realize this would make alts extremely common

And then everyone would whine about that.
It probably wouldn't benefit 343 much if they did that because it would give less incentive to unlock things since almost all of those weapons and vehicles listed can work just fine to win a game. Maybe instead make all the base loadouts permanent, but just give them a bigger supply of base REQ's that could last them for 20-30 games or however appropriate.
PeterAK91 wrote:
I honestly don't agree on certain req cost you provided. first off, basic level of hydra launcher its fine at 4, not at 5. Reason is simple, you'll need something to deal with early wasp or banshee.

Second, the spartan laser is actually where it needs to be (lvl 4). Again, you need something to deal with early vehicle spamming since a plasma pistol or a hydra is not even enough.

Third, basic wasp is already weak enough. increasing its cost would make it even more useless since you have better vehicles at 5 like banshee.

In addition, basic saw at 5 is also useless, you either have better weapons for the same req level or just pick the appetite of destruction since its an upgraded saw variant for the same cost.

Edit: increasing the cost due to certain items available would make an unbalanced impact due to not having certain items to deal with earlier vehicles
I totally agree. Balance is key.
PeterAK91 wrote:
eLantern wrote:
PeterAK91 wrote:
I honestly don't agree on certain REQ cost you provided. First off, basic level of Hydra Launcher its fine at 4, not at 5. Reason is simple, you'll need something to deal with early Wasp or Banshee.
I appreciate the response and welcome the feedback.

To this concern I point out that the base level Banshee and [now] Wasp (under my scenario of change) are available at REQ level 5 too so there shouldn't be a massive time frame where they can't be combated with the Hydra Launcher. Not to mention, any potential early dealings against those particular aerial vehicles can still be accomplished with Kinetic Bolts, Plasma Pistols, Sentinel Beam, Grenade Launchers, Railguns; plus, perhaps even the Talon of the Lost (Needler), Plasma Casters, and the Chaingun Turret. Also, worth mentioning that Random Weapon options could potentially land you with an item that's highly capable of countering a Banshee or Wasp.
Quote:
Second, the Spartan Laser is actually where it needs to be (lvl 4). Again, you need something to deal with early vehicle spamming since a Plasma Pistol or a Hydra is not even enough.
Again, you do offer a fairly valid concern, but in response I'd like to point out that of all the vehicles that can readily be called-in at REQ levels below 5 most of the counter options that I mentioned above can, more or less, appropriately deal with them. Are those options ideal? No, but they can, more often than not, get the job done if used correctly. If anything this would simply modify the meta that exists within the Warzone environment which can be viewed as a positive or negative change depending on one's subjective perspective.
Quote:
Third, basic Wasp is already weak enough. Increasing its cost would make it even more useless since you have better vehicles at 5 like Banshee.
That's part of the point though. It would be readily available to everyone at REQ level 5 despite their REQ collections, so the primary reason for people to choose it is because they don't have other available aerial options or they simply don't want to waste one of their personal REQ collection items. It effectively becomes a trade-off. They gain the usefulness and advantage of an aerial vehicle at a particular in-game REQ cost; yet, since it won't require the use of a player's personal REQ collection it's going to be less effective than its variant or other potential options at the same REQ cost.
Quote:
In addition, basic SAW at 5 is also useless, you either have better weapons for the same REQ level or just pick the Appetite of Destruction since its an upgraded SAW variant for the same cost.
This again is the point I'm making. If players have access to the variant they would readily choose that option because it's a more effective weapon, but if they don't have access to that variant or simply don't want to waste their collection item at that time then they would at least have access to the basic level SAW as a Power Weapon option.
Quote:
EDIT: Increasing the cost due to certain items available would make an unbalanced impact due to not having certain items to deal with earlier vehicles.
How so?

I sort of understand your concerns regarding weapons designed to counter vehicles, but absent that concern (which I've responded to above) what other imbalance are you concerned about?
I do want to mention that I play a lot of Warzone and I forgot to mention one important detail to back my claim, REQ energy. From all the updates and balances that Warzone has received, the REQ energy gained by a certain individual or team hasn't changed that much. Its important to considers these ideas under a balanced REQ energy gained per kill, minute, ect.

Why is this important?

I've been in many situations where I'm up against a 10 or 12 man team where they absolutely dominate the whole scenario. Take assault for example, where I've been farmed by a good team with high tier vehicles like Hannibal Wasp and even Phateon Helios at the first 5 minutes while my team tries to cap the first base and we barely have access to lvl 4 REQs. That's the imbalanced I was concerned about. While this typical scenario might look like it rarely happens, it still happens. I'll also mention that I have benefited from this, if you kill a lot, your REQ energy actually fills faster granting an advantage to call-in early powerful REQs. Warzone has become a place where it gets extremely sweaty, specially with the implementation of Trueskill2 (TS2).

As for what you're proposing, yes, it's a good idea but without the REQ energy gained being balanced for everyone, it will still be a hit or miss since today's Warzone is full of teams spamming vehicles and/or farming.
Several fair points made in your response; however, it is worth noting that the last big update/revision to the Warzone mode added a progressive REQ drip, severely curbed the REQ boost given for earning Spartan Kills, and limited the REQ boost gained for assisting and killing AI opponents to those who actually participated instead of granting the boost to everyone on the team. Oh and the inclusion of TrueSkill2.0 made it more reasonable for the mode to be opened back up to max party sizes, but population concerns impact this mode more than anything else (due to team size) as it directly leads to wider or looser matchmaking parameters. It's not clear to me if Warzone Assault received a similar modification beyond TS2's inclusion and max party size. I mean, I can't recall if it received a progressive REQ drip and if the REQ boost for earning Spartan Kills was toned down from its previous setting. I think it might have, but I'm not 100% sure.

Warzone's scoring system and in-game REQ building have always been areas where I've felt improvement could be made. I thought that the last update to Warzone was a step in the right direction and I was very pleased with the implementation of TS2, but the larger the team size of the mode the more difficult team balance will become. Personally, I was a big fan of the progressive REQ drip and wondered if performance-based REQ boosts shouldn't be muted even further. Plus, anyone who get's JiP'd into an active match should receive a REQ level that’s one level behind the highest player in-game instead of some generic amount based on the round. I've posted plenty in regards to AI Boss point modifications that I'd like to see. And I'd still love to see Warzone Assault be turned into a 2-round mode where each team gets a turn on offense and defense. I think that might help improve Warzone Assault's abysmal population numbers which directly impact its game-play experience. As it stands now there's hardly any skill-based restrictions in place because of how difficult it is to find a match.
So at req level 4/5, you'll see people spamming lasers and railguns.
I have a feeling this would ruin the experience more so than the weapon tuning
I honestly really like the idea I really do.

An idea I'd like is to have a warzone arena type
No vehicles
No OP weapons
Have other game types other than base captures
Have flag captures. One base between the two bases and have to capture the flag at one of the bases then both race back to grab the one flag and cap it at the other base then last one core base. So each team has 2 bases then core. There's only one flag so have to make sure you keep your team grabbing it

Another would be oddball at each base instead so you had to stay on the base with the oddball to gain time
eLantern wrote:
PeterAK91 wrote:
eLantern wrote:
PeterAK91 wrote:
I honestly don't agree on certain REQ cost you provided. First off, basic level of Hydra Launcher its fine at 4, not at 5. Reason is simple, you'll need something to deal with early Wasp or Banshee.
Several fair points made in your response; however, it is worth noting that the last big update/revision to the Warzone mode added a progressive REQ drip, severely curbed the REQ boost given for earning Spartan Kills, and limited the REQ boost gained for assisting and killing AI opponents to those who actually participated instead of granting the boost to everyone on the team. Oh and the inclusion of TrueSkill2.0 made it more reasonable for the mode to be opened back up to max party sizes, but population concerns impact this mode more than anything else (due to team size) as it directly leads to wider or looser matchmaking parameters. It's not clear to me if Warzone Assault received a similar modification beyond TS2's inclusion and max party size. I mean, I can't recall if it received a progressive REQ drip and if the REQ boost for earning Spartan Kills was toned down dramatically from its previous setting. I think it might have, but I'm not 100% sure.

Warzone's scoring system and in-game REQ building have always been areas where I've felt improvement could be made. I thought that the last update to Warzone was a step in the right direction and I was very pleased with the implementation of TS2, but the larger the team size of the mode the more difficult team balance will become. Personally, I was a big fan of the progressive REQ drip and wondered if performance-based REQ boosts shouldn't be muted even further. Plus, anyone who get's JiP'd into an active match should receive a REQ level that’s one level behind the highest player in-game instead of some generic amount based on the round. I've posted plenty in regards to AI Boss point modifications that I'd like to see. And I'd still love to see Warzone Assault be turned into a 2-round mode where each team gets a turn on offense and defense. I think that might help improve Warzone Assault's abysmal population numbers which directly impact its game-play experience. As it stands now there's hardly any skill-based restrictions in place because of how difficult it is to find a match.
I'm aware of the "nerfed" or reduced REQ energy gained by an individual or team. Yes it was reduced to a notable difference, however, higher skilled players tent to build more by either killing alot, bosses, base captures, ect. I know I'm repeating myself but I've seen this often on regular warzone where an certain individual tents to "carry" his whole team and calls early banshee or other weapon weapons leaving us wondering how they get there so fast. But as I stated and read carefully your ideas it does seems like a good implementation. TS2 already showing good results as for matchmaking since I've experimented playing regular warzone solo and matches does seem very close. I haven't been on a steamrolled match yet and that's good, thus bringing this ideas would help prevent this from happening by allowing to counter REQ spam.

As for warzone assault, I agree it needs something like a 2 round capture / defense objective, however, it would promote a lot of farming. My best take on this is for example, if the attacking team caps and core then its game over. if we turn this around like the attacking team now defends it will only extend the match thus farming more kills. I say for example if my team is trying to cap the first base and we fail, then now we defend but if we still fail to defend the first base then its game over right there in order to prevent farming and extend the length of assault. I like playing assault but like you said, it suffers a lot from population since every time I play Its the same people over and over again.
it would be nice if 343 made some slight changes like you mentioned to assault, or fixing the spawns since its mainly the problem IMO.
I definitely agree with you on the loadout weapons, but not totally convinced on everything else.
After hearing concerned feedback by others regarding how my idea carried over to the Power Weapons and Vehicles such as...
PeterAK91 wrote:
I honestly don't agree on certain REQ cost changes you provided. Increasing the cost due to certain items being readily available would make an unbalanced impact due to not having certain items to deal with earlier vehicles.
As for power weapons, I think you rack those up pretty quick.
BxxRAD wrote:
You do realize this would make alts extremely common.
velchron wrote:
So at REQ level 4/5, you'll see people spamming Lasers and Railguns.
I have a feeling this would ruin the experience...
LUKEPOWA wrote:
It probably wouldn't benefit 343 much if they did that because it would give less incentive to unlock things since almost all of those weapons and vehicles listed can work just fine to win a game.
I really liked the potential option mentioned by LUKEPOWA as a different method to solve the issue I foresee as existing...
LUKEPOWA wrote:
Maybe instead make all the base loadouts permanent, but just give them a bigger supply of base REQ's that could last them for 20-30 games or however appropriate.
Essentially starting new players with a healthy collection of base level UNSC REQ items.

Power Weapons: Includes the Certificate
20 [basic] Hydra Launcher
20 [basic] Railgun
20 [basic] Grenade Launcher
20 [basic] Rocket Launcher
20 [basic] SAW
20 [basic] Shotgun
20 [basic] Sniper Rifle
20 [basic] Spartan Laser
20 [basic] Chaingun Turret

Vehicles: Includes the Certificate
20 [basic] Gungoose
20 [basic] Mongoose
20 [basic] Mantis
20 [basic] Scorpion (Tank)
20 [basic] Scout Warthog
20 [basic] Warthog
20 [basic] Wasp

This is an intriguing solution toward helping newer players feel like they can be competitive and useful without messing too much with the current system and collection incentives. I think I may update my Original Post to reflect this idea instead.
Why did you limit it only to UNSC weapons and vehicles?
A couple reasons.
  1. Our characters are UNSC Spartans. New Spartan members should have access to several of the UNSC's generic Power Weapons and Vehicles. These members essentially have not yet earned the trust or privilege to select UNSC variants or items from other factions. This privilege is earned via REQ packs which requires in-game experience and/or transactional bribery.
  2. This idea had to be carefully balanced against the loss of incentive for obtaining and building a REQ collection. Limiting it to the base level UNSC items seemed the most appropriate method to do so. It also manages to fit a logical cannon-like aspect regarding a new Spartan member earning or maneuvering-to-improve their access to a wider variety of weaponry and combat vehicles.
eLantern wrote:
I've always believed that new Spartans should automatically have access to certain base level UNSC items. This way early participants and new-comers could still use a fairly wide variety of items, but they'd still be limited to the base level items until unlocking the potential use of their variants and other options. I think it would have further decreased the REQ system's influence on match outcomes which is already somewhat limited by the manner in which the REQ system progressively builds REQ level in-game. If something like the Warzone environment returns in Infinite I hope this is something they give consideration too or maybe it's a change that could still be made for Halo 5 down the road.

Here's a list:

Loadout: Automatically Unlocked

[basic] AR
[basic] BR
[basic] DMR
[basic] Magnum
[basic] SMG - reduce REQ cost to 3

Armor Mods: Automatically UnlockedFrag Grenade Expert - reduce REQ cost to 2
Patrol Case

Power Weapons: Certificate Automatically Unlocked. And players are granted an initial collection quantity of 20 for each.

[basic] Hydra Launcher
[basic] Railgun
[basic] Grenade Launcher
[basic] Rocket Launcher
[basic] SAW
[basic] Shotgun
[basic] Sniper Rifle
[basic] Spartan Laser
[basic] Chaingun Turret

Vehicles: Certificate Automatically Unlocked. And players are granted an initial collection quantity of 20 for each.

[basic] Gungoose
[basic] Mongoose
[basic] Mantis
[basic] Scorpion (Tank)
[basic] Scout Warthog
[basic] Warthog
[basic] Wasp

EDIT: Idea updated on 10-16-18 based on feedback.

On top of this let me just add that I'd love to see an adjustment to how Warzone Assault works, how AI Boss points are rewarded within the Warzone mode, and an adjustment to the REQ costs of several Amor Mods as well as how the Patrol Case Armor Mod operates within the Firefight modes. Plus, I've previously shared a thought with 343i in regards to making the Warzone environment and Forge (over the Xbox) free-to-play to those with an Xbox Live Gold membership and it touched on another shared thought relating to having more control over purchasing specific REQ items. Lastly, I'll just say that it'd be great if the Warzone maps were made available for 12v12 custom games in which the REQ system is turned off, there's no PvE aspect, and no core endings, but you'll have the option to setup Slayer, CTF, Strongholds, and Assault matches with select vehicles and weaponry placed on the map.

Warzone Assault: Teams are chosen for Offense/Defense, then after they fail or succeed, the teams should switch sides to see if the other team can do it better. Match ends during second team’s attempt the moment they improve or fail from what the first team accomplished; in other words, from the benchmark that was established by the first offensive team. Whatever the first team accomplishes the goal for the second team becomes to complete one more task or the same amount quicker. Only way to tie would be to complete the same number of tasks by the exact same total time interval.

Warzone AI Boss Points: Update the awarding of AI Boss points based on three key factors: (1) landing the killing blow receives a specific fraction of the points, (2) divide the remaining points per the percentage of damage dealt by the two teams, and (3) the team that landed the killing blow has their points added to their team score first in order to ensure the importance of landing the killing blow come game-end with either team in position to win. Also, only show the life meter for Legendary and Mythic Bosses to those within close and medium-close proximity. This increases the difficulty of coordinating an effort to steal the killing blow from far away as a team member must remain within close-ish quarters while in constant communication.

Standard AI Bosses = 25 Total Points
  • 15 points aka 3/5 (60%) gets rewarded to the team that landed the killing blow.
  • 10 points aka 2/5 (40%) gets divided up per team based on percentages of damage dealt. (Example: a team that deals 65-74% of the damaged will be rewarded 7 points)
Legendary AI Bosses = 150 Total Points
  • 50 points aka 1/3 (33%) gets rewarded to the team that landed the killing blow.
  • 100 points aka 2/3 (67%) gets divided up per team based on percentages of damage dealt. (Example: a team that deals approximately 73% of the damaged will be rewarded 73 points)
Mythic AI Bosses = 200 Total Points
  • 100 points aka 1/2 (50%) gets rewarded to the team that landed the killing blow.
  • 100 points aka 1/2 (50%) gets divided up per team based on percentages of damage dealt. (Example: a team that deals approximately 73% of the damaged will be rewarded 73 points)
Armor Mod adjustments: Make all three Grenade Expert Armor Mods available at REQ level 2. This presents players an interesting equipment choice at REQ level 2. Have the Patrol Case, Reflex Enhancers, and Speed Booster available at REQ level 3. This presents players an interesting characteristic benefit at REQ level 3 if they elect to change from their level 2 grenade equipment benefit. Death from Above and Increased Strength should become available at REQ level 4. This is because these mods provide a direct increase in damage lethality (via the melee mechanic) for the user. Upgraded Thrusters, Auto-Medic, and Grenadier at REQ level 5 because they provide greater survivability to the user within an encounter. Advanced Sensors, Upgraded Shields, and Wheelman are available at REQ level 6. These three mods obviously grant big tactical advantages. Patrol Case should work slightly different within the Firefight modes. REQ Power Weapons should automatically receive extra reserve ammunition without having to equip the same Power Weapon twice. This is because the effective usefulness of Power Weapons within the Firefight modes are dramatically reduced compared to their effective usefulness in PvP modes. In other words, vehicles reign supreme within the Firefight modes.
Make some very valid points I remember very early on just getting shredded with the DMR in Wz and it took ages to unlock etc. at this point in H5 it’s kinda too late but if infinite has wz then definitely some version of what you said for sure
@eLantern sorry I don't know how to just highlight a single reply rather than quoting the entire post. I understand where your coming from when you say we are UNSC but I think having access to all the base versions of the weapons regardless of faction is reasonable. The vehicles are debatable

It's not like you will only use UNSC weapons in the base arena setting or in the campaign. Would allow for players to get used to different weapons too. I always thought that for the most part, the base version of the weapons shouldn't have even been in the req packs since they aren't really power weapons.

I was just thinking about Halo 4 where you could start with a different primary rifle and I liked that. Having the Carbine and Light Rifle in req cards becomes quite tedious since the ammo always runs out
I agree with the items that should be automatically unlocked and inventory at the beginning of the game. That's a good idea that would be easy for 343 to implement. We have to remember that they barely have anyone working on Halo 5 anymore, even though they haven't even made an announcement regarding the release of Halo 6.

The only criticism I have is that the REQ bonus for getting spartan kills doesn't need to be lowered even more than it already has. I struggle my butt off to get to level 4 or 5 by the time the 6 minute boss comes up, and I usually have the most kills out of anyone in the game (9 out of 10 games I play). So even when Im going try hard mode, it usually doesnt make a difference because the best REQ I can pull by the 6 minutes boss can easily be countered. I only mention the 6 minute boss as a gauge because 75% of the wins come from the team that kills the first Legendary boss.

Now I do believe that the Warzone Total Point reward for spartan kills should be lowered from 2 points back down to 1. It may slow the game down slightly, but it puts way more emphasis on boss kills and bases, which I think is what Warzone is all about. But that's my personal opinion

The only time that I feel that I have a legitimate advantage over the other team is when I go boss hunting. Killing bosses, AI, and capping bases nets a WAY bigger Req boost than spartan kills. Check how much your Req boost goes up when you get a marine kill vs a spartan kill
I agree with the items that should be automatically unlocked and inventory at the beginning of the game. That's a good idea that would be easy for 343 to implement. We have to remember that they barely have anyone working on Halo 5 anymore, even though they haven't even made an announcement regarding the release of Halo 6.

The only criticism I have is that the REQ bonus for getting spartan kills doesn't need to be lowered even more than it already has. I struggle my butt off to get to level 4 or 5 by the time the 6 minute boss comes up, and I usually have the most kills out of anyone in the game (9 out of 10 games I play). So even when I'm going try hard mode, it usually doesn't make a difference because the best REQ I can pull by the 6 minutes boss can easily be countered. I only mention the 6 minute boss as a gauge because 75% of the wins come from the team that kills the first Legendary boss.

Now I do believe that the Warzone Total Point reward for spartan kills should be lowered from 2 points back down to 1. It may slow the game down slightly, but it puts way more emphasis on boss kills and bases, which I think is what Warzone is all about. But that's my personal opinion

The only time that I feel that I have a legitimate advantage over the other team is when I go boss hunting. Killing bosses, AI, and capping bases nets a WAY bigger REQ boost than spartan kills. Check how much your REQ boost goes up when you get a marine kill vs a spartan kill
The performance-based REQ boosts gained from killing AI was what I meant when I said I would like to see it muted a bit more. It would further emphasize the role of the REQ drip which helps keep teams’ REQ values more within range of one another. I've added a little more clarity to my initial comment within the OP so that it's known that I'm specifically referencing the REQ boost gained from AI.