Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

Someone Explain the Hate for Automatics

OP m0rtolife692

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I don't even have a problem with the automatics being good, what I hate is that a perfect Magnum can't beat anything in close range xD

It's disconcerting, to hear people claim the H5 Magnum is OP when the rest of the sandbox is also comparatively stronger. What if I told you the Reach Magnum is effectively stronger than Halo 5's? It had a faster killtime than both the DMR and Assault Rifle in that game.
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Ramir3z77 wrote:
And now you're giving me advice on how to counter automatics that is basically just "stay out of range." Thanks for telling me what I already knew, knowing how to counter automatics doesn't magically make them better designed conceptually. Really lovely that, as with most of these arguments, you assume that if I have a problem with automatics it must be because I must die to them all the time. Sorry, dead wrong.

You catch someone in CQC using an automatic and it IS a guaranteed kill unless you lack thumbs. Try getting a five-shot in the same range and telling me that it's equally easy. No, catching someone in CQC isn't "outplaying" them, my god. All guns have magnetism, but being "very near" with a small reticle is much different than being "very near" with a gigantic one, and I'll say it as many times as I need too, all this -Yoink- should be -Yoinking!- obvious and self-evident to anyone who has actually played the game.

"People using automatics can miss shots too you know." Yeah, except it's much harder to actually miss shots and missed shots are much less significant due to killtime and fire-rate.

That's all you're getting. I'm done and I'm unsure why I bothered to post to begin with.
Alright, then let's try a different approach. Tell me how automatics should be changed so they would be "balanced" to you.
All of the autos preform a little too well at medium - long range
For starters they've made all the autos stronger giving them lower TTKs than any precision weapon while also giving them longer RRRs (red reticule range)
Then when you tack on that all the autos get range and accuracy buffs while in smart scope and that the AR and SMG also get headshot multipliers (not sure about the storm rifle) well now it's just over the top AAAAAAAND then add in the insane amounts of bullet magnetism on the autos and well the weapons are just plain out right silly

My opinion?
remove smart scope from the autos or at the very least keep smart scope on them but remove the bonus they get in smart scope, (remove the range and accuracy buff remove the headshot multiplier)
and reduce bullet magnetism/aim assist by 10-30% (remember in H4 they had to drop aim assist on the AR by 50%)
and you've got autos that are still strong, still viable but not crushing at medium range and require skill to actually aim
  1. Easy to get kills
  2. People cant dodge AR shots for some reason.
Hard VVay wrote:
I don't think anyone's issue is that the automatics are viable. I know I'm glad that the weapon sandbox is finally full of useful guns. I think everyone's problem with the automatics is that while they are very easy to use, all too often they beat the much harder pistol in 1v1 battles in what SHOULD be the pistol's range. I don't mind the AR beating the pistol at close range, but the AR is stepping on the pistol's toes by being that good out to mid range. As it is now, a pistol can beat an AR at midrange, but he has to be absolutely perfect, and he'll still come away with only a sliver of health. That's messed up. The skill/reward ratio is way out of whack. One guy is doing something skillful, and the other guy is not.

The skill in the AR should be knowing when to use it, and right now the margin for error is way too wide.
As a pro automatic guy, I understand this. I often notice the AR has a longer reach than the SMG, which I found odd. That said, there's no other reason to complain about the automatic weapons. They are made for CQC. Their shorter time to kill is because they are supposed to act as deterrent to people charging with pistols and BRs. You either use another auto or back off, which is what they were made for. Saying it's unfair that you get a shot with a BR on someone and then they mow you down with bullets and you barely run away even though you shot first means they are doing what they're supposed to do.

There's a reason we have a "reversal" medal guys...
Why are you all complaining about the assault rifle and magnum. Why not complain about something better, such as not playing as Arbiter
jk you competitive shmucks are great, though c'mon
They're mad because BR isn't the king anymore.

Oh...sorry that you guys actually have to consider using other weapons for once. Forgot this was Halo 5: Guardians and not Halo 5: BR or BK.
Matic wrote:
Automatic's in a nutshell:
1.Hold shoot button
2.Get kill

Pro Automatic technique:
1. Spartan Charge
2. Shoot left ankle for killshot
3. Get kill
Precision's in a nutshell:
1.Press button 4-5 times
2.Get kill

Pro Precision technique:
1.Spartan Charge
2.Shoot left ankle twice for killshot
3.Get kill

Well golly, it sure is easy to demonize what I don't like when I simplify it so much! The truth of the matter is, anti-automatics refuse to acknowledge that one cannot just point and shoot with the "Big 3" automatics, you can miss, they aren't firing tracking bullets. They have bigger aiming reticles, but they don't cover the whole screen, and their damage and accuracy falloff starts much closer than your precious Magnums and BR's. You have to place you shots and watch your fire-rate so recoil doesn't take your shots off the target.

But no, go ahead and keep pretending automatics are insta-win weapons as a way to mask the fact that you just plain old got out-played and are way too salty over it.
Why the ankle though? Whats so special about it? Why not the head?
I think people dislike automatics because they are too easy to use and can kill just as fast if not faster. I personally think that precision weapons (BR, DMR, magnum) were intended to be for long range like in modern militaries.
Autos take skill. Go into a custom game find a wall that leave bullet holes and shoot standing, shoot standing while ads, crouch shoot, then crouch shoot while ads. Incorporating these noob tactics will help you combat good acurate shooter unlike me :).

Sorry precision weapon lovers, I for one suck with them for the most part and prefer gripping and ripping an auto, which leads to noobie cheeky tactics, which is why I think people get frustrated with them.
Auto's are good, people are going to hate the things that they keep dying with.
I don't understand why it's considered a noon tactic, like you said logically it makes sense that when you get close to someone you want a weapon suited for that like an assault rifle or SMG. I've received messages of people calling me a noob and child for using a weapon like it's supposed to be used. I like to use a sniper at a distance and how it's supposed to be used, is that also a noon tactic. The SMG and Assault rifle do need a bit of skill as well to use up close. I like to strafe my shots and toggle the crouch button to make me a harder hitting target because of my motion. It doesn't take as much skill as a precision weapon but it's not supposed to.
People that don't like automatics basically feel that each game should only have one gun so it is "balanced." The need for different types of guns is for the distance in engagement. Yes, you are an idiot if you would rather use a pistol then an SMG in a close range battle and vise-versa. Its how battles work. But just like in Halo 2/3, everyone wants their BRs only. I'm not bad with a BR, but the game gets so boring when thats the only weapon you can use.
So your (st****) opinion is : no more automatic weapons because you don't like them.
It is not hard to understand :
magnum-medium,long range
BR-medium,long range requires less skill than magnum
AR-short,medium range
SMG-short range
I don't get it either. Some people want to live in the halo 2/3 days were automatics were beat up close by a BR.
Matic wrote:
Automatic's in a nutshell:
1.Hold shoot button
2.Get kill

Pro Automatic technique:
1. Spartan Charge
2. Shoot left ankle for killshot
3. Get kill

*Edit: Remember to work on your straight line AR strafe for maximum effectiveness. Don't forget that cheeky beat down for a quick kill.
This honestly pisses me off so bad. Spartan Charge is so ridiculous, that whoever uses the "Pro Automatic technique" needs to be slammed into a rocket and launched into the sun or something.
OP, I'm going to be honest, I only read up until where you said "the magnum functions outside the norm for a sidearm" or words to that effect. And THAT right there is enough for a Halo player to wave off your arguments. You are attempting to cram Halo into this sandbox it shouldn't be in, doesn't belong in, and wouldn't work for the game.

Halo is an arena based shooter. It's sandbox has always revolved around a utility weapon. Or, a jack of all trades master of none. The BR has historically been the most common one. Reach had the DMR and halo 1 had the magnum.

You believe that a sidearm should be weak. That just because it's a pistol it needs to be weak. This is flawed thinking. You're just assuming that because every other game has weak pistols that Halo needs them too. But in Halo 5 the pistol is the utility weapon. At least one of them. And certainly the most common since we spawn with it.

The problem with Halo 5 and automatics in general is that they are essentially out performing the pistol at questionable ranges. I don't think it's TOO drastic. I think they are close to fine. But I think they are a tad too powerful.

Which brings me to my point: people don't like automatics for a number of reasons. And you can't just say "explain it without saying X or Y." Because you can't just take away arguments simply because you said so. So I'll say it. A lot of people don't like them because they require next to no skill to use. And in an arena based shooter, skill is important and valued.

Let me use an analogy: league of Legends (keep in mind I don't know what the meta is now. So let me use last seasons) -

Why do you think no one cared if you did well using master Yi? A champion that really only requires one click for him to do massive damage? As opposed to Zed or Lee Sin, both champions that require a depth of knowledge that "faceroll" champions do not have.

Skill is valued in gaming. Especially games that have large competitive followings like Halo and League of Legends.

Historically, your BR could beat an Ar at a moderately close range if you landed all your shorts.

YOUR SKILL WAS REWARDED.

Automatics? You arent rewarded for doing anything other than simply being close to the enemy player.

This is why Automatics are frowned upon. Especially in Halo 5 where things like the SMG and storm rifle exist, where they spawn insanely fast and can melt an enemy player before they can even respond sometimes.

Precision weapons require more than just pulling the trigger. You need to learn about player movements, strafe, positioning, everything really. Automatics require luck and proximity, neither of which require much thought.

Hope this helps you understand OP.
I feel like I'm the only person to aim straight at a target with an auto weapon. Apparently the bloom helps you, for me, I carve a perfect outline around the guy and get killed in 6 shots by his magnum. I shoot straight with every gun (minus the sniper) and the only ones that are effective with this tactic are the precision weapons (with the exception of a smart-scoped SMG). That's why I think autos are harder to use. Their great in Arena, with CQC everywhere and AR starts, just not the best in Warzone.

(All of this is my opinion on the matter, of course I'm not the only person to ever shoot straight.)
Without using the terms "noob weapon" or "no skill." I've seen enough of these threads and I never see good arguments coming from the anti-automatics group so let me make a public request for those specifically. After playing Halo 5 a decent bit, I honestly can't see where they're coming from. The automatics perform well at their optimal range where it makes sense. The Assault rifle is effective at close range and with some skill, medium range as well, as a jack-of-all-trades weapon should. The SMG absolutely shreds at close range but anything past maybe 15-20 meters and you need to be using smart-scope and aiming at the head to have a chance at winning. The Storm Rifle is pretty much the same as the AR but it overheats so quickly, you'd be hard pressed to win a 2v1 even if you fired first.

The competition here is the Magnum, which in my OPINION is performing outside of a sidearm's usual role, and being forced into engagements where it normally wouldn't be used in. Pistols are fallback weapons and play a secondary role to a rifle or other primary, but should never play the primary role themselves unless no other option is available. That being said, I think the magnum is performing fine in game and does not need any re-balancing. It wins most engagements when played in it's in-game role, as a medium range "rifle" and normally falls short beyond that role.

Honestly, to the people hating on automatics, I wonder if we're playing the same game when I read your threads. I've got my group's observations as well on this, but pistols can still beat the AR at close range with some consistent shot-placement and my AR gets me killed more often than not. The only occasions I win in are when I have at least a heartbeat's more time putting shots on my opponent with it or when someone closes the distance and I'm forced to fallback to the weapon more suited for the role, which in this discussion would be an AR or SMG.

On that little bit, I'll be honest and say I get a bit heated when I see people say it's a noob tactic to switch to an automatic when either you or the enemy closes the distance. I want to see the logic behind that statement because to me, it's the same as someone saying "switching to a BR when someone is a bit too far away is a noob tactic." See what I'm getting at here? It's simple logic. If someone gets close to you, and you have a weapon better suited to close range, use that one, don't sit there trying to make headshots with a Magnum or BR in things as fast-paced and frantic as CQC, it's not going to end well for you. Hell, I even feel bad when I shred someone with an SMG because I'm a defensive player, I like to keep my distance and pick off from afar, but I keep an SMG on me whenever I can find one because people like to get close to me and break that little comfort bubble, so I punish them for it with lead rain. I don't like having to do it, they don't like being on the receiving end, but they're almost always the one's that close on me.

I don't know guys, I might not be getting it, but this is all coming from a veteran Halo player that doesn't even like Halo 5. I hate the competitiveness and feel of Halo 5, I much preferred Halo 3, Reach, and even the way Halo 4 felt, but I still think Halo 5's sandbox is the most balanced one yet. Everything works well in their designated role and everything has a counter, the way every FPS game should be. Getting sprayed down by an SMG? Pistol him/her from outside his/her range. Getting picked off by a BR? Snipe them with a DMR or Sniper. Sniper giving you a headache (literally and figuratively)? Flank it and get close so that tiny reticle is a liability, it's all that simple guys, it really is, and besides the rare exception, it's like that in most FPS' across the board. Like I said, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about and everyone else knows the game better than me, let me know what you think.

Now listen to this to cool off before you type those angry responses calling me a noob- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKsEqFgKhoA
Unfortunately you will always get the terms "Noob Weapon" and being branded as having "no skill".

Shotguns, Grenade Launchers and even Rocket Launchers to name a few, have shared a similar fate over the years in other FPS titles.

Personally imho ill kill anyone with anything I can get my hands on. Yeah I maybe a Noob and of course I have no skill. But look at it this way if I am these things and the person I've killed sees themselves as the complete opposite, that makes me an Epic Pro Killer ;)

Now feel the force of my No Skill Noobiness next time I mow you down with my Full Auto xD
Who cares whether it takes more skill to get a kill with the AR or magnum? In the end, it's about whether you got the kill or not. I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure I or my team gets kills. If someone wants to try shooting me from across the map with an AR then go right ahead, they'll learn pretty quick.
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