Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

Someone Explain the Hate for Automatics

OP m0rtolife692

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OP literally asks why auto weapons are gated and then removes the two most argued criteria for argument as to why they are hated.

I haven't played Halo 5 in a while OP, but even before the game came out I hated the SMG and the AR. My biggest complaints was always making them headshot capable. As Ramirez said earlier these guns can be whatever the dev wants them to be. This is why they were never headshot capable in previous games. Yea from a logical standpoint it never made sense, but it's a game. With the headshot multipliers you had people literally spraying at someone and getting random bonus damage because the spray hit the head. Tell me, in a game that was built around being easy to pick up, but hard to master with a nice skill gap does being rewarded make sense? It really doesn't compared to precisions that require you to land the head shots to get your kills you must aim at the opponent's head and if you miss well the zero damage was done boys and girls.

With autos you still have a bullet hose that can hit elsewhere on the person and you probably won't miss since you aim at the chest if you have a shred of intelligence which translates to slight headshot chances at random. This is why people view it as a noob weapon. It takes little if any skill with some pretty large rewards for relatively no risk. If I try to use a BR against you in close range you can kill me before I even have a chance to kill you. Same with the magnum. At least in Halo 3 I could juke a little bit and if I landed all my shots my skill would allow me to win. That doesn't happen anymore. The weapon killtimes forbid it which makes it no fun unless the person you're fighting is blind or has terrible aim. Any reasonably sane person will win close range fights almost every time and that shouldn't be the case in a game rewarding skill and strategy. It should give you an edge yea, but not basically guarantee the fight especially since the head shots are completely randomized.

The suppressor is like a minigun now with tracking bullets that go faster than the needler with increased RoF over time with a smartscope but regardless it still eats people for lunch. They just are a little too effective in a game that is supposed to require skill if you ask me. Then again, Halo 5 is all over the place for me, but if they just removed the head shots and slightly increased the base damage as well as the spread to discourage full spray and pray unless super close range I think they'd be fine. People hated the Halo 4 AR and I don't know why because I think that one is probably the closest thing to balanced. Had good power and if you could aim and burst it properly you could actually beat BRs and DMRs outside of its intended range.

Just my thoughts though, but the takes no skill and noob weapon monikers are valid points because it is given the name for a reason.
Ramir3z77 wrote:
And now you're giving me advice on how to counter automatics that is basically just "stay out of range." Thanks for telling me what I already knew, knowing how to counter automatics doesn't magically make them better designed conceptually. Really lovely that, as with most of these arguments, you assume that if I have a problem with automatics it must be because I must die to them all the time. Sorry, dead wrong.

You catch someone in CQC using an automatic and it IS a guaranteed kill unless you lack thumbs. Try getting a five-shot in the same range and telling me that it's equally easy. No, catching someone in CQC isn't "outplaying" them, my god. All guns have magnetism, but being "very near" with a small reticle is much different than being "very near" with a gigantic one, and I'll say it as many times as I need too, all this -Yoink- should be -Yoinking!- obvious and self-evident to anyone who has actually played the game.

"People using automatics can miss shots too you know." Yeah, except it's much harder to actually miss shots and missed shots are much less significant due to killtime and fire-rate.

That's all you're getting. I'm done and I'm unsure why I bothered to post to begin with.
Alright, then let's try a different approach. Tell me how automatics should be changed so they would be "balanced" to you. Reduce their range? Maybe for the AR, but the SMG and SR would essentially be shotguns with longer ttk's at that point, so that's a no-go. Nerf their damage? Well, then they have a longer ttk and wouldn't be able to stand up to the precision weapons and no one would use them ever, which is not what 343i wants. So what do you propose? And if you aren't getting killed by automatics enough to warrant you having an issue, what's the -Yoinking!- issue in the first place?

Cute that you think catching someone by surprise is the only way close quarters fights happen. People close the distance, that's how people play, and if you happen to rush someone and get close for a melee maybe or you're just better up close, why the hell should they handicap themselves by using a weapon not suited to the situation? Because you think you should win, that's it, cute. So for the umpteenth time, someone switching to a weapon better suited to that specific situation is the better tactical choice, and if they kill you, then yes, they made better choices than you, you were outplayed, you can't sensibly argue that. As for bullet magnetism, you're arguing with yourself, because no one said anything like what you're arguing. No one ever said automatics required equal skill to use, but you claiming they are as easy as point and shoot is sad and misinformed.

"lalalala, easier to use, lalala" Yeah, you caught me, they are easier to use, so play your -Yoinking!- weapon to it's strength and use what's at your disposal. Toss a grenade, backpedal, boost, strafe, crouch, retreat, jump, flank, do what it takes to give yourself an edge, that's a hallmark trait of a competent player, if you can't do any of those, then you lose, respawn, and try again.

Taking your ball and going home after you're the one who got pissy, yeah you sure showed me, glad to know that I've been arguing with a -Yoink- child. It was fun, bud, maybe reduce your sodium intake and come back with an actual argument.
i agree with the OP. Look theres been plenty o times that ive beaten the AR guy jut like theres been plenty of times the AR has beaten me. Same goes with the magnum, theres been plenty of times ive beaten the magnum guy and visa versa. When it comes to CQC a CQC weapon is more suited foor that situation, think of the situation youre in or what you might be in. Its 50% player skill and 50% weapon, just like you have a 50/50 chane of killing or dying. I think a lot of the precsion noobs have a problem with autos bc the got out played and killed by a gun they right off as a noob weapon or a no skill weapon, but thats what happens when you get cocky and think that a BR or Magnum will keep you safe. The weapon balance is fine, you just have to plan out for the situations youll find yourself in, nobodys safe from CQC
The only reason people hate on automatic weapons is because they don't know how to use them properly. Everyone tries to play it safe and stay away from the action. You can't do that very well with an SMG or an AR. I personally always carry a precision weapon and an automatic or close range weapon just to play it safe.
People that hate automatic weapons are people that are just trying to sound pro or are trying to belittle people that kill them with automatic weapons. It's pretty rediculous. Just like people that hate it when you shoot them from behind. What are players supposed to do? Announce their presence and wait for the person to turn around?
Yeah I think especially with Halo especially over other FPS, each weapon has it's time and place. It's up to the player to maximize effectiveness of what weapons they have.... meaning pulling out an automatic when the time calls for it. People shouldn't be shamed into not using weapons just because a group of people believe it doesn't require skill to use... which is completely subjective in the first place.

EDIT: I think one of the biggest problems with the Halo community is this irrational belief that the only time "skill" is used is once bullets start flying. But in reality, skill is used from the time the match starts until it ends. It takes skill to navigate the map in a way to not get caught in bad situations, whether that being a situation in which you are outnumbered by enemies, or over powered by an enemy's weaponry, or whatever the case may be.
One of my buddies who is much much better than me has a knack for getting around maps without getting himself into 1v2 firefights. He also is absurdly good at getting close to/behind people without being noticed it seems. I think there is definitely a skill to getting into position to use these auto's without compromising your position.
Some people just feel elitist and MLG pro and worship any precision weapon and think Automatics are for plebians and BKs. It's just a stupid attitude. I love the AR and its iconic appearance.
To be honest I don't see the big deal. Everyone is best with some type of weapon whether it be precision or automatic
Hater gonna hate bro
LoL hilarious as to why people hate automatics now because they're more useful.
Gigamora wrote:
WHHHHHHHHHY is anyone using a long range weapon in CQC?!
You are honestly going to hate on auto's taking less skill to use in CQC? How about long range combat?
"But, Razz why the -Yoink- would you use a short range weapon in long range combat?"
Ikr?
Yes, but what do 343i define as "CQC"? CQC to 343 seems to mean medium range, maybe 18 in-game meters, which is not close quarters at all. Nobody is saying that if an automatic is on your face, you should still be able to beat them, that would be stupid. We're saying that autos should behave like CQC weapons, not mid-long range weapons that you can scope in with to reduce bullet spread. If I see someone trying to spray me down with an auto from 10-15 meters away, if I have a steady aim I should be able to shut them down well before they drop my shields. But this is not the case with most "standard" autos...
Hmmm 10-15 meters away if the AR drops you,you're aim is not steady loll it's an easy win if you lend your shots at that range. You forget the AR isn't just short range but suppose to hit you at mid range.

the plasma rifle eats away at shields yes but you blInk to long and boom it's over heated.
Crouch shooting the ar is my favorite. I call it noobskill. Go onto torque near either base stand on the stair case and directly across you'll see a piece standing there by itself. Shoot it standing then shoot it crouching and be amazed.
If the person is bad at this game, then it wouldn't matter if they wielded the AR or the magnum. I'm a way veteran Halo player, and I've come to adapt to this game just like the other Halos (I hated Halo 4, worst one ever). Even bad kids who spray and pray, won't win against a good player 9 out of 10 times.
It seems that everyone is a bullet sponge when I use the AR but when the AR is used against me it's like killing a fly a flamethrower.
they used to be bad now they are usable and good in their respected ranges and in the answers case and smgs destroy so people are in shock that autos are beating single shots
Gigamora wrote:
WHHHHHHHHHY is anyone using a long range weapon in CQC?!
You are honestly going to hate on auto's taking less skill to use in CQC? How about long range combat?
"But, Razz why the -Yoink- would you use a short range weapon in long range combat?"
Ikr?
Yes, but what do 343i define as "CQC"? CQC to 343 seems to mean medium range, maybe 18 in-game meters, which is not close quarters at all. Nobody is saying that if an automatic is on your face, you should still be able to beat them, that would be stupid. We're saying that autos should behave like CQC weapons, not mid-long range weapons that you can scope in with to reduce bullet spread. If I see someone trying to spray me down with an auto from 10-15 meters away, if I have a steady aim I should be able to shut them down well before they drop my shields. But this is not the case with most "standard" autos...
Hmmm 10-15 meters away if the AR drops you,you're aim is not steady loll it's an easy win if you lend your shots at that range. You forget the AR isn't just short range but suppose to hit you at mid range.

the plasma rifle eats away at shields yes but you blInk to long and boom it's over heated.
I'm not trying to flex but look at my placements for previous seasons, if you're trying to imply that I'm not good I assure you, you are wrong. If you read some of my earlier posts, you would see that the people I play against, are not average players and they will rarely ever miss with whatever weapons they use. So bearing that in mind, hopefully, my comment will make more sense to you. And I don't forget the AR and autos are short range, I know they "should" be short ranged, but they clearly are not in this game. Against someone who isn't going to miss 2/3rds of their shots, using a precision is usually null and void when faced with a Halo 5 auto.
The competition here is the Magnum, which in my OPINION is performing outside of a sidearm's usual role, and being forced into engagements where it normally wouldn't be used in. Pistols are fallback weapons and play a secondary role to a rifle or other primary, but should never play the primary role themselves unless no other option is available. That being said, I think the magnum is performing fine in game and does not need any re-balancing. It wins most engagements when played in it's in-game role, as a medium range "rifle" and normally falls short beyond that role.
On that little bit, I'll be honest and say I get a bit heated when I see people say it's a noob tactic to switch to an automatic when either you or the enemy closes the distance. I want to see the logic behind that statement because to me, it's the same as someone saying "switching to a BR when someone is a bit too far away is a noob tactic." See what I'm getting at here? It's simple logic. If someone gets close to you, and you have a weapon better suited to close range, use that one, don't sit there trying to make headshots with a Magnum or BR in things as fast-paced and frantic as CQC, it's not going to end well for you. Hell, I even feel bad when I shred someone with an SMG because I'm a defensive player, I like to keep my distance and pick off from afar, but I keep an SMG on me whenever I can find one because people like to get close to me and break that little comfort bubble, so I punish them for it with lead rain. I don't like having to do it, they don't like being on the receiving end, but they're almost always the one's that close on me.
The AR in my opinion is fine same with SMG but I think the storm is a little over the top if you can master aiming for the lower neck of etc and master timing and burst Yoinking! that thing will wreck most people
Phoxniix wrote:
Matic wrote:
Automatic's in a nutshell:
1.Hold shoot button
2.Get kill

Pro Automatic technique:
1. Spartan Charge
2. Shoot left ankle for killshot
3. Get kill

*Edit: Remember to work on your straight line AR strafe for maximum effectiveness. Don't forget that cheeky beat down for a quick kill.
Lol, this helped me so much in making points for other threads ;)
Spartan charge is the epitome of- no, just no.

Can confirm though.
What don't people get that automatics in Halo are much easier to use than precision guns, there is no denying that it's a fact. The problem with this is that there is no reward to using a more skillful weapon because the autos are too powerful.
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