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Sprint and why it is bad for Halo

OP Phoxniix

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xdigital17 wrote:
the small 15% of the crowd
You clearly haven't been paying attention to either the sales figures (lowest selling halo of all time) or the population numbers (fasted population drop of any halo title ever)

Sure halo is "evolving" the problem is that the majority of the people (as indicated from low playlist numbers) don't like the direction halo is going

If you are content with a halo game that has roughly 30-40,000 people playing after launch that's fine, however some of us remember when Halo was -THE- game to beat, now its just another generic FPS in an oversaturated genre that will be quickly forgotten
Go on any gaming website that has an article for a shooter say for Destiny and or COD and suggest it should not have sprint and see what kind of reaction you will get. You will get slammed with negative feedback. Sprint is here to stay.
Again, this has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Destiny is a game that was built from the ground up with sprint in mind. Removing it now is like removing turn-based combat from XCOM. I would never suggest removing sprint from it, because it would alienate the fanbase. Halo on the other hand was specifically built without sprint in mind, as Bungie toyed with the mechanic but removed it because it didn't work. Well, it's now almost fifteen years later and it still doesn't work and the fanbase is already alienated, for that precise reason that I mentioned before. So how about we undo the damage that's been done to the franchise instead, hm? Christ, 343 already started, by removing classes and armor abilities, they just didn't go all the way and chose to implement other stuff like ADS and Microtransactions instead. One step forward, two steps back...
xdigital17 wrote:
God, this topic has been beaten to death. Just get over the fact that Sprint is here to stay in games today. Games have evolved & you have to evolve as a series to stay relevant sales wise regardless of if the small 15% of the crowd that is hardcore wants it or not. Developers that care about sales don't make their games super hardcore anymore, they try to market to the casual who don't care in the slightest. Nobody in today's day & age wants to walk around maps anymore. Plus, Sprint opens up the ability to chain moves together more fluidly.
Tell that to CS:GO, one of the most popular FPSs currently on the market. It seems that people in today's day and age do enjoy having classic game modes without sprint.
FL Crysis wrote:
deja vu.....x100.

Seriously though, you don't like sprint? Turn it off. Simple.
You can't in matchmaking...so it's not just that simple. Good try though.
No you can't turn it off. You can choose not to use it though.... since it had no benefits anyway.
Celestis wrote:
Rommel S wrote:
I doubt you would say that if the results would have supported your opinion. Not to mention at the time of that poll 19 thousand people had singed up and participated in the User Feedback Program. You'll never find a poll on another website with that many participants, in regards to sprint. Then take into account on other sites, and here on waypoint, you get many people with multiple accounts posting the same thing over and over again to try and inflate the numbers to back their views on things.

At least with the User Feedback Program MS and 343 weeded those types out and only allowed participants over the age of 18 to join. If anything it's probably the most accurate poll results to date.
If the participants are selected behind the scenes due to some unknown criteria, then the sample base is unreliable. This is independent of the outcome, it's simple statistics. For all I know, if could be just as well biased against sprint, and the number of classic fans might be below 11%. FYI, I already conceded that the other polls aren't reliable either, due to low sample size, which is also independent of the outcome and purely statistics. Trust me, I know this stuff, I do these things at work on a daily basis...
Isn't the criteria for who can and can't participate in the program laid out in the terms and conditions? It's not hidden and there is no anti sprint conspiracy conjured up by 343 and MS. That's just silly.

The criteria I remember is, (But I'm sure there is more that I forgot.):

You have to live in the USA

Must have an active gold account

Must be at least 18 years of age
FL Crysis wrote:
deja vu.....x100.

Seriously though, you don't like sprint? Turn it off. Simple.
You can't in matchmaking...so it's not just that simple. Good try though.
No you can't turn it off. You can choose not to use it though.... since it had no benefits anyway.
You have to use it now, because they made the maps so much larger to compensate for sprint...Sure you don't have to use the abilities, but you would be at a major disadvantage.
Celestis wrote:
Go on any gaming website that has an article for a shooter say for Destiny and or COD and suggest it should not have sprint and see what kind of reaction you will get. You will get slammed with negative feedback. Sprint is here to stay.
Again, this has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Destiny is a game that was built from the ground up with sprint in mind. Removing it now is like removing turn-based combat from XCOM. I would never suggest removing sprint from it, because it would alienate the fanbase. Halo on the other hand was specifically built without sprint in mind, as Bungie toyed with the mechanic but removed it because it didn't work. Well, it's now almost fifteen years later and it still doesn't work and the fanbase is already alienated, for that precise reason that I mentioned before. So how about we undo the damage that's been done to the franchise instead, hm? Christ, 343 already started, by removing classes and armor abilities, they just didn't go all the way and chose to implement other stuff like ADS and Microtransactions instead. One step forward, two steps back...
I have been with halo from the beginning. It is the only game I play pretty much and I have not been alienated. In fact I would be extremely disappointed if it was removed......long live sprint!
Rommel S wrote:
Isn't the criteria for who can and can't participate in the program laid out in the terms and conditions? It's not hidden and there is no anti spiny conspiracy conjured up by 343 and MS. That's just silly.

The criteria I remember is, (But I'm sure there is more that I forgot.):

You have to live in the USA

Must have an active gold account

Must be at least 18 years of age
Again, those were the official criteria. I know two guys who lived in the same town, and one of them was able to participate while the other was excluded due to "regional restrictions". So I'm heavily inclined to believe that there was something else going on behind the scenes. Probably it was just a bug, but that doesn't change the fact that the sample was biased.
Celestis wrote:
Go on any gaming website that has an article for a shooter say for Destiny and or COD and suggest it should not have sprint and see what kind of reaction you will get. You will get slammed with negative feedback. Sprint is here to stay.
Again, this has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Destiny is a game that was built from the ground up with sprint in mind. Removing it now is like removing turn-based combat from XCOM. I would never suggest removing sprint from it, because it would alienate the fanbase. Halo on the other hand was specifically built without sprint in mind, as Bungie toyed with the mechanic but removed it because it didn't work. Well, it's now almost fifteen years later and it still doesn't work and the fanbase is already alienated, for that precise reason that I mentioned before. So how about we undo the damage that's been done to the franchise instead, hm? Christ, 343 already started, by removing classes and armor abilities, they just didn't go all the way and chose to implement other stuff like ADS and Microtransactions instead. One step forward, two steps back...
I have been with halo from the beginning. It is the only game I play pretty much and I have not been alienated. In fact I would be extremely disappointed if it was removed......long live sprint!
I've been playing for a long time as well. My service record backs it up. As soon as I get enough post under my belt, so I can rant up, I'm putting
"Viva la sprint" as my signature.
Celestis wrote:
As I told somebody else above. If you really want to see how many people enjoy sprint. go to Bungie's Destiny forum and suggest they remove sprint and see what happens. Really. Lots of people that play Destiny also play Halo and most don't come to this forum. there is a much bigger player base than people want to believe.
Great. So let them play Destiny that was designed with sprint and let the rest play Halo which was designed without. Now everyone's happy.
I myself will pay anyway. But its obvious that 343 wants more than just the hardcore old school Halo Fans. However I want the playerbase to grow. not stay stagnant. the drop in the playerbase is already evident in the matchmaking where Platinums are going up against Silvers. We don't even have enough players for silvers to play silvers. thats an issue and will only get worse by being content to satisfy a small group. Obviously me and you want different things. You want no sprint for you. I like sprint for the greater playerbase both current and potential.
I would rather have a smaller group of respectable players who have thumbs and are generally nice people than a community filled with -Yoinks!- and people who support something as silly as sprint in a game where nobody asked for sprint
Phoxniix wrote:
Celestis wrote:
As I told somebody else above. If you really want to see how many people enjoy sprint. go to Bungie's Destiny forum and suggest they remove sprint and see what happens. Really. Lots of people that play Destiny also play Halo and most don't come to this forum. there is a much bigger player base than people want to believe.
Great. So let them play Destiny that was designed with sprint and let the rest play Halo which was designed without. Now everyone's happy.
I myself will pay anyway. But its obvious that 343 wants more than just the hardcore old school Halo Fans. However I want the playerbase to grow. not stay stagnant. the drop in the playerbase is already evident in the matchmaking where Platinums are going up against Silvers. We don't even have enough players for silvers to play silvers. thats an issue and will only get worse by being content to satisfy a small group. Obviously me and you want different things. You want no sprint for you. I like sprint for the greater playerbase both current and potential.
I would rather have a smaller group of respectable players who have thumbs and are generally nice people than a community filled with -Yoinks!- and people who support something as silly as sprint in a game where nobody asked for sprint
Exactly,
At the end of H3, if someone asked for a game with sprint, I could have literally suggested to them hundreds if not thousands of different games that would cater to their needs.
Halo was (at the time) one of the few games that didn't rely on gimmicks or other nonsense to be a good game, it had the golden triangle and good map design (for the most part) and that was enough to make it a force to be reckoned with and be loved by millions
Then the change started to creep in and they turned that one game that people like me had into every other god damned FPS on the market
This is why (in my opinion at least) why the old guard are so against sprint, they didn't ask for it, they didn't need or want it but it was kinda forced onto them in an effort to sell more titles
Look where that's got us now......#10 on the XBL's most played list 2 months after launch
bravo
xdigital17 wrote:
the small 15% of the crowd
You clearly haven't been paying attention to either the sales figures (lowest selling halo of all time) or the population numbers (fasted population drop of any halo title ever)

Sure halo is "evolving" the problem is that the majority of the people (as indicated from low playlist numbers) don't like the direction halo is going

If you are content with a halo game that has roughly 30-40,000 people playing after launch that's fine, however some of us remember when Halo was -THE- game to beat, now its just another generic FPS in an oversaturated genre that will be quickly forgotten
Been looking for these figures, can you share your source?
To me personally, sprint is fine, being able to change your approach/escape speed on foot combined with thrusters adds a whole new level of skill and complexity. Could you imagine how quick the player base would reduce if this game had no sprint, thrusters or ads.
Phoxniix wrote:
Celestis wrote:
As I told somebody else above. If you really want to see how many people enjoy sprint. go to Bungie's Destiny forum and suggest they remove sprint and see what happens. Really. Lots of people that play Destiny also play Halo and most don't come to this forum. there is a much bigger player base than people want to believe.
Great. So let them play Destiny that was designed with sprint and let the rest play Halo which was designed without. Now everyone's happy.
I myself will pay anyway. But its obvious that 343 wants more than just the hardcore old school Halo Fans. However I want the playerbase to grow. not stay stagnant. the drop in the playerbase is already evident in the matchmaking where Platinums are going up against Silvers. We don't even have enough players for silvers to play silvers. thats an issue and will only get worse by being content to satisfy a small group. Obviously me and you want different things. You want no sprint for you. I like sprint for the greater playerbase both current and potential.
I would rather have a smaller group of respectable players who have thumbs and are generally nice people than a community filled with -Yoinks!- and people who support something as silly as sprint in a game where nobody asked for sprint
No clue why your getting all worked up and bypassing the word filter so you can call names. You said on the very first page of this thread, (which I quoted you on), that sprint was just an illusion. So, like I said, I don't know why your getting all worked up and letting sprint bother you. It's just an "illusion", right?
Jazzle2K14 wrote:
xdigital17 wrote:
the small 15% of the crowd
You clearly haven't been paying attention to either the sales figures (lowest selling halo of all time) or the population numbers (fasted population drop of any halo title ever)

Sure halo is "evolving" the problem is that the majority of the people (as indicated from low playlist numbers) don't like the direction halo is going

If you are content with a halo game that has roughly 30-40,000 people playing after launch that's fine, however some of us remember when Halo was -THE- game to beat, now its just another generic FPS in an oversaturated genre that will be quickly forgotten
Been looking for these figures, can you share your source?
To me personally, sprint is fine, being able to change your approach/escape speed on foot combined with thrusters adds a whole new level of skill and complexity. Could you imagine how quick the player base would reduce if this game had no sprint, thrusters or ads.
This player base would reduce because the illusion would be shattered and removed and they would actually be punished for mistakes again like in h3
Phoxniix wrote:
I would rather have a smaller group of respectable players who have thumbs and are generally nice people than a community filled withcdouchebags and people who support something as silly as sprint in a game where nobody asked for sprint
Ugh.... listen, I have to play advocatus diaboli here, but the sprint supporters could very much say the same thing from their point of view. In fact, they already have a dedicated following for Nu-Halo, small as it may be...
Phoxniix wrote:
Vash 743 wrote:
If you guys really want to have no sprint in matchmaking start petitioning 343 to make a "classic halo" weekend playlist, the game already has the option to turn it off so it wouldnt be too hard for them to do
But by turning it off you are practically handicapping yourself and giving your opponents a. HUUUUUGE advantage
you seem to have missed the point here , in the playlist im proposing EVERYONE wont be able to sprint
Phoxniix wrote:
Phoxniix wrote:
But that speed is only an illusion because of the increased map size in Halo due to it
Increased map size is almost always good not bad. Second, Sprint is not going away. how many Halo games with sprint will there be before people like you give up your quest to get rid of it? really, How many , 4 games? 5?
How is increased map size always good?And yes, I will continue to campaign against sprint as it does not have a place in Halo in its current States and takes away from what made Halo,Halo.
I think people like you are trying to kill Halo.
Rommel S wrote:
Phoxniix wrote:
Celestis wrote:


As I told somebody else above. If you really want to see how many people enjoy sprint. go to Bungie's Destiny forum and suggest they remove sprint and see what happens. Really. Lots of people that play Destiny also play Halo and most don't come to this forum. there is a much bigger player base than people want to believe.
Great. So let them play Destiny that was designed with sprint and let the rest play Halo which was designed without. Now everyone's happy.
I myself will pay anyway. But its obvious that 343 wants more than just the hardcore old school Halo Fans. However I want the playerbase to grow. not stay stagnant. the drop in the playerbase is already evident in the matchmaking where Platinums are going up against Silvers. We don't even have enough players for silvers to play silvers. thats an issue and will only get worse by being content to satisfy a small group. Obviously me and you want different things. You want no sprint for you. I like sprint for the greater playerbase both current and potential.
I would rather have a smaller group of respectable players who have thumbs and are generally nice people than a community filled withcdouchebags and people who support something as silly as sprint in a game where nobody asked for sprint
No clue why your getting all worked up and bypassing the word filter so you can call names. You said on the very first page of this thread, (which I quoted you on), that sprint was just an illusion. So, like I said, I don't know why your getting all worked up and letting sprint bother you. It's just an "illusion", right?
You are right,sprint is an illusion.However,it is an illusion which nobody realises and all fall for the trick which is hurting the game and franchise in the long run.Sprint needs to be removed so this illusion is shattered and maps can be more appropriately sized for 4v4
Rommel S wrote:
No clue why your getting all worked up and bypassing the word filter so you can call names. You said on the very first page of this thread, (which I quoted you on), that sprint was just an illusion. So, like I said, I don't know why your getting all worked up and letting sprint bother you. It's just an "illusion", right?
I'm pretty sure the bypass was a type. I've fixed it.
The "they must make maps bigger to accommodate for sprint" is sort of a false correlation. Of course, players are able to cover more ground in Halo 5, therefore we get more ground to cover, but this logic that it's bad for Halo is faulty at best because it ignores the fact that sprint is a player choice.

On bigger maps, players will sprint more. On smaller maps, players will sprint less.

The size of the map does not determine how fast a player moves. A player determines that.

Halo 5 still has fairly small, tight maps that work well, despite sprint. For example, Overgrowth. Would a map like Guardian work in Halo 5? Probably not in a 1:1 ratio, but something like it could work just fine, regardless of sprint.

Sprint is an overall boon to Halo gameplay.
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