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Sprint and why it is bad for Halo

OP Phoxniix

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Rommel S wrote:
Marcos94 wrote:
DESTRUCC wrote:
Please no more sprint complaint threads. The naysayers are outnumbered by yaysayers. We like the speed of modern shooters.

You are really beating a dead horse.
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1. You are not doing anything while you are sprinting. You are covering ground on a map. You are not shooting, you are not throwing grenades, you're just moving. This slows the game down.

-Note: A solution to the H3 "walking through sand" issue was already come up with in MLG settings in the past. You increase base movement speed to 120% (?), and everyone's sprinting ALL the time. You can shoot their gun while they sprint, too. You can take part in the game. You like movement and faster paced shooters, how about that?

2. Maps are designed with sprint in mind. Maps just got bigger, which is why OP is saying that you are given the illusion of faster speed. Look at midship vs. truth. This doesn't necessarily detract from gameplay, but here is what does. When you're on a super-sized map, if you aren't sprinting, you're effectively taken out of the game. Regaining shields? Have to stay put (in the same area) because of the sluggishness of not sprinting on maps designed for sprint. I like the added feature, and it does make sprint less bad than H4, but why not just sprint all the time, as noted above.

3. Ruins map control. This is a less obvious one. There are now 2 different movement speeds. You can't predict how many seconds it will take an enemy to get to you off spawn when you've just killed 4, pulled flag, and they're on respawn. It could be 5, 10, 15 seconds. The point is, it's always random unless someone is either always sprinting or never sprinting. Since you're taken out of the game when you sprint as stated in my first point, each player can and will take a different amount of time to get to your base. This would be skillful if it was purposefully done by the opposing player in order to mess up your prediction, but it's not. People don't stop sprinting to shoot at people so that you can't predict how long it will take them to get in position to stop a flag cap. You can't predict where players will be nearly as well because of the randomness of their movement. Again, they're not causing the randomness, the indirect handicap of sprint is, so it's not like you're being outplayed.

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I don't want to get in this with you, but there are clearly things Sprint does add to gameplay. Whether you prefer the feature or not is up to how you want to play, though.

#1 you state that it slows things down because you are unable to fight for the duration of your Sprint. It's understandable in mind but not in practice. If you have a hallway/wall and you can go to the right or to the left, it obviously speeds up the time you can engage and help your team by allowing you to create a sight line on the right side or going to the left side and control that section of the map as well. It's the same thing as giving everyone SMGs and saying ok go play a fast-paced Halo now... uh no give me a long-ranged Pistol so I can create sight lines quicker and engage in battle more freely.

#2 you state that maps were designed for Sprint, but unless you work for 343 that doesn't hold much value. Maybe the maps were designed before Sprint in mind and it just so happened that Sprint enhanced them. Hopefully you are right, because the distance you need to travel for sight lines and the amount of evasion options are too much in this game without Sprint.

#3 you touch on the unpredictability, but what's so bad about giving a player juke options? A player can be behind cover, you know he's there but unsure what his plan will be then boom you're dead because he jumped up and killed you. That's unpredictable too. And, it's not random because the player has control over when and how far to Sprint.The unpredictability of Sprint is someone is backed in a base, aggressor has 3 routes, one that takes 1 sec, and other 2 take 3 secs with Sprint.. defender needs to make a decision on where to look and is at a disadvantage, also because the aggressor has teammates who can get in range quick to help... if you look at it without Sprint, now it takes one route 2 secs, and the other 2 like 7 secs... now the defender can say he will probably go to the closest route and predict that; he will also know that his teammates are too far away, now he's at an advantage.

Just some food for thought.
#2. Link to a interview with a Halo 4 map designer that says they have to take sprint into account when designing maps.

(Similarly, Halo 4's designers keep a watchful eye on distance. "We definitely have standards for the size that something can be and the time it takes from one corner of a map to the other, or one objective sight to the other," says Pearson. "It's to make sure we're tuning the experience to keep the time-to-death down, or making sure that your time-to-engagement is enough to give you a breather between dying, but not so long that you're hunting through the map and not finding people." Again, game mechanics have a direct bearing. In Halo 3, sprinting was impossible. In Halo:Reach, sprinting was a selectable armor ability. In Halo 4, everyone's has it, and the maps have grown to compensate.)

#3. Players have always had a juke option, it's called a strafe. The only reason people were complaining about it was because the player acceleration was lowered in the later games.
from the article: In Halo: Reach, sprinting was a selectable armor ability. In Halo 4, everyone's at it, and the maps have grown to compensate.

this is the author speaking, not a 343 dev.
Ignoring the fact that this is supposed to be a Halo game, I don't mind THIS implementation of Sprint, because it's well balanced due to the shield recharge delay, and being able to get knocked out of sprint by gunfire unless you reached full momentum.

But does this belong in Halo? The pacing and speed of the game is entirely different. Halo was always characterized by being a slow paced alternative to the traditional arena shooter, and it was unique because of that pace. No other game felt like Halo as far as pacing is concerned (well, some N64 FPS may have a similar movement speed, but the aiming and movement did not mesh well).

I don't mind there being changes from game to game, like new features to spice things up. However, the core formula should never change, that should remain consistent from game to game. The only exception I find is if an element of the formula dumbs down the gameplay, but mostly everything in Halo is balanced and plays well (there are only a few exceptions). Since the pacing is one of the main aspects which heavily differentiates the gameplay to begin with, I think we can consider that part of the core formula.

You know, people complain about ADS. I actually like ADS. I don't consider it better or worse than oldschool zoom, it's on the same level personally. Only issue is that you don't lose your situational awareness as much, which could be solved by blurring the edges of the screen. But the point I want to make is, at least ADS actually works in tandem with a core element of the Halo formula, which is the greater focus on precision-based gunplay. So I don't mind that change because it isn't ditching a major aspect of the Halo formula. However, with sprint, it REMOVES a major aspect of the Halo formula (the slow pace), rather than working WITH IT. So my suggestion is ditch sprinting, but they can keep ADS if they want.
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I've been watching carefully how sprint has been going in my games over the last couple of days.

Certainly I think I've been using it better after reading/thinking about it... using shorter bursts and making sure I stop and prop before entering a dangerous area. It certainly makes it easier to get early shots in!

Also, using it defensively... I used to try and sprint straight away... but now if I jump/thrust in a less predictable direction before sprinting I have a better chance of engaging sprint and getting away.

I have also started to try and predict if / how my enemy will use sprint. A few times I didn't bother engaging because it was obvious I was too far away and they had an easy out... so why waste bullets, attract others to my location, leave myself at the mercy of a reload...

But my over arching pro-sprint argument still holds... by using sprint (and jump / thrust) I can negotiate open spaces in relative safety... promoting flow around the map and more people getting to contest areas. One camper with a BR can no longer take me out from a distance (although they can still take down my shields and leave me vulnerable at the other end).

I much prefer sprint to the bunny hops of yesteryear.
I know there's a rule about calling someone out for their stats or whatever, and in no way am I demeaning anyone because my ranks are -Yoink- compared to others too, but it seems like the only people who think sprint is a mechanic that adds skill to the game are plat and below...it doesn't mean your opinion on what you like in the game is any less relevant, but adding to a discussion about whether sprint should be in the game from a strategic/skill standpoint by saying that it can be used to outsmart your enemies and being ranked gold...I don't know.

And if you aren't talking about it from a skill perspective, that's fine, but there should at least be a playlist without it.

The problem with this game is that it was built from a competitive perspective, but didn't dedicate itself fully to it, so both casual and competitive halo players suffered.
Darwi wrote:
I've been watching carefully how sprint has been going in my games over the last couple of days.

Certainly I think I've been using it better after reading/thinking about it... using shorter bursts and making sure I stop and prop before entering a dangerous area. It certainly makes it easier to get early shots in!

Also, using it defensively... I used to try and sprint straight away... but now if I jump/thrust in a less predictable direction before sprinting I have a better chance of engaging sprint and getting away.

I have also started to try and predict if / how my enemy will use sprint. A few times I didn't bother engaging because it was obvious I was too far away and they had an easy out... so why waste bullets, attract others to my location, leave myself at the mercy of a reload...

But my over arching pro-sprint argument still holds... by using sprint (and jump / thrust) I can negotiate open spaces in relative safety... promoting flow around the map and more people getting to contest areas. One camper with a BR can no longer take me out from a distance (although they can still take down my shields and leave me vulnerable at the other end).

I much prefer sprint to the bunny hops of yesteryear.
That doesn't really argue my point about making it feel like a completely different style of game, due to the pacing being drastically different.

You know, Classic Halo's pacing was fairly unique in its execution, no other game replicated it. Any other slower-paced game puts you in a movement lock whenever you want a high degree of accuracy, and you can only move from Point A to Point B with sprinting. Halo managed to have a slow pace, but one that was still competitive due to the ability to strafe and outmaneuver gunfire (making accuracy more difficult), and with that slow pace, it still managed to combine precision and movement flawlessly, without having to ever trade one aspect for the other.

But now that major unique characteristic is kind of ditched. It's trying to be flashy and faster-paced when it's completely contradictory to how Halo's gameplay used to be. Sprint is perfectly balanced, but it does not belong in Halo. It's not like Sprint works with the Halo formula, it's actually that by adding Sprint you take away a unique main aspect of that formula. Different series should be allowed to keep their own unique styles (given that there isn't anything objectively wrong with it).

I mean, at least when I did the Power Weapons argument in another thread, that's an aspect of Halo which causes it to be dumbed down compared to other arena shooters. But how is adding sprint necessarily making the game "better". As far as I'm aware, sprint or no sprint, they're just two different gameplay styles. Sprint has proven itself to work well competitively in an arena shooter game, that's cool, but let's save that concept for a new arena shooter some day in the future, rather than cramming it directly into Halo when it contrasts heavily with the series' gameplay.

Again, it doesn't improve the game, it just makes it different, so what's the point? I get you need change between games, but you can add new mechanics to spice things up without needing those features to deviate from the core. Halo 1-3 did that perfectly. I don't even have a problem with ADS, at least that meshes with Halo's formula instead of changing it (Halo always had a focus on precision-based gunplay, ADS is just another way of achieving that). The only way I could possibly see that sprint connects with an element of the formula, is that Halo was often about strategic retreats due to its shield recharge system, but the thing is, you can easily achieve that through other means.while respecting Halo's unique pacing at the same time.

(And whenever I mention sprint in any semi-positive way, saying its balanced, I only mean the Halo 5 incarnation, that's the only time I've ever seen it executed well. I do not like sprinting in any other game I've played or analyzed.)
I know there's a rule about calling someone out for their stats or whatever, and in no way am I demeaning anyone because my ranks are -Yoink- compared to others too, but it seems like the only people who think sprint is a mechanic that adds skill to the game are plat and below...it doesn't mean your opinion on what you like in the game is any less relevant, but adding to a discussion about whether sprint should be in the game from a strategic/skill standpoint by saying that it can be used to outsmart your enemies and being ranked gold...I don't know.

And if you aren't talking about it from a skill perspective, that's fine, but there should at least be a playlist without it.

The problem with this game is that it was built from a competitive perspective, but didn't dedicate itself fully to it, so both casual and competitive halo players suffered.
While I agree, the ranking system in this game does not sort skill very well. I'm in platinum and constantly get matched with noobs on my team the same rank as me, I damn near always carry the team but get demoted because of them dying too much or not ptfo. In other words they get into ranks which they should not be in.
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