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[Locked] The Illusion That Is Called Sprint

OP FL Crysis

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FL Crysis wrote:
There have been many discussions in regards to sprint in Halo. You have people that are Pro-Sprint, Anti-Sprint and neutral. After reading most of these threads, I noticed many people, myself included, on the Anti-Sprint side referring to sprint as an Illusion. Sprint as an illusion means, even though you are moving faster (no one can argue against that), it does not mean you are getting to a certain location faster compared to the older Halos without sprint. I’ve read an abundant about of rebuttals to this statement and I decided to provide some statistics that could shine the light of why people have been stating that sprint is an Illusion.

I decided to time how fast it took to get to Pink Tower and to the opposite base in Midship (Halo 2), Heretic (Halo 3), and Truth (Halo 5). For Halo 5, I tested the amount of time it took to sprint and walk to both Pink Tower and the opposite base. I did a sample size of 10 trials for each game (10 each for sprint and walking in H5). I am going to provide the average of the times and spare people the boring statistical analysis portion of the math. Below is what I came up with during my testing. You are more than welcome to do your own and provide what you get.

Halo 2
Pink Tower – 7.15 seconds
Opposite Base – 14.30 seconds
Halo 3
Pink Tower – 7.21 seconds
Opposite Base – 14.41 seconds
Halo 5 – Sprinting
Pink Tower – 7.15 seconds
Opposite Base – 14.29
Halo 5 – Not Sprinting
Pink Tower – 9.18
Opposite Base – 18.24

After looking at these numbers, it provides you with a visual that even though you feel you are getting somewhere faster, it does not mean you did (an illusion). 343 had to increase the map size to compensate for sprint. I would like to also say, this post is not about the Halo population, other sprint effects, or flaming anyone. I’m just trying to provide more information to the discussion that is sprint.
I believe that you also need to take into account the way you can get around a map in halo 5 the maps are larger because the walls need to be higher due to clamber and ground pound. The hallways need to be longer because if thruster boost and slide. Your statistics do show the map is bigger but you also need to take into account every reason my it is bigger. Also your statistics show that sprint really doesn't make you run that much faster as it only created a 2 second time gap between walking a sprinting. I'm one of those neutral people with sprint. I also believe that most people understand what's wrong with sprint but lime the feel of mobile Spartan not a clunky one that's feels like they are dragging someone thing behind them (halo 3 especially). If 343 could add some sort of running animation in sure a lot more people would go neutral or even the opposite side. Also you'd aren't really punished in halo 5 or advantaged in halo 5 for using sprint it is just a way to feel more mobile but also get somewhere quicker without having to get into a vehicle. You could easily play a game without sprinting. I could sya more but I'm too lazy.
FL Crysis wrote:
There have been many discussions in regards to sprint in Halo. You have people that are Pro-Sprint, Anti-Sprint and neutral. After reading most of these threads, I noticed many people, myself included, on the Anti-Sprint side referring to sprint as an Illusion. Sprint as an illusion means, even though you are moving faster (no one can argue against that), it does not mean you are getting to a certain location faster compared to the older Halos without sprint. I’ve read an abundant about of rebuttals to this statement and I decided to provide some statistics that could shine the light of why people have been stating that sprint is an Illusion.

I decided to time how fast it took to get to Pink Tower and to the opposite base in Midship (Halo 2), Heretic (Halo 3), and Truth (Halo 5). For Halo 5, I tested the amount of time it took to sprint and walk to both Pink Tower and the opposite base. I did a sample size of 10 trials for each game (10 each for sprint and walking in H5). I am going to provide the average of the times and spare people the boring statistical analysis portion of the math. Below is what I came up with during my testing. You are more than welcome to do your own and provide what you get.

Halo 2
Pink Tower – 7.15 seconds
Opposite Base – 14.30 seconds
Halo 3
Pink Tower – 7.21 seconds
Opposite Base – 14.41 seconds
Halo 5 – Sprinting
Pink Tower – 7.15 seconds
Opposite Base – 14.29
Halo 5 – Not Sprinting
Pink Tower – 9.18
Opposite Base – 18.24

After looking at these numbers, it provides you with a visual that even though you feel you are getting somewhere faster, it does not mean you did (an illusion). 343 had to increase the map size to compensate for sprint. I would like to also say, this post is not about the Halo population, other sprint effects, or flaming anyone. I’m just trying to provide more information to the discussion that is sprint.
I get it. So sprint effect is countered by map size. So in this case sprint does not decrease the time it takes to reach points in maps that were made before sprint. What it does add is more choice to the player. If you walk you have more control/ can shoot. If you sprint you loose some shooting control, but you get access to the op spartan charge. On top of that I am sure that you could string together many different movement abilities like thruster pack or slide to actually get to places faster than in previous halo games, it just takes a lot of skill and timing to combo all the movement options to get to a place fast. Like the sprint slide thrust combo.
...and no difference was made. Sprint is here to stay in Halo.
Well in halo 5 it gives variations on how players want to move. You can change from sprint to walk to get to and objective. These tactics changes the way how Spartans get to an objective or evade or rush an opponent and also if you take damage you have to walk. So it is no illusion but I do agree that maps are bigger to accommodate sprint.
I've never gotten so burned out on a Halo game like I did with Halo 5.

I used to play the games all the way up until the very end of their life span, or until the next on came out.

It's only been out a few months and I've already moved on to MGSV. Which is a really hard pill to swallow because I love Halo, and have a 6 ft tall master chief in my den along with all other kinds of halo stuff/clothing.

Don't get me wrong it's fun and all but games are so monotonous and the different playlists are bare bones and dull. I have to will myself to get through a game of warzone or arena just to get that extra RP for a gold pack. But that's another thing all on its own.
FL Crysis wrote:
There have been many discussions in regards to sprint in Halo. You have people that are Pro-Sprint, Anti-Sprint and neutral. After reading most of these threads, I noticed many people, myself included, on the Anti-Sprint side referring to sprint as an Illusion. Sprint as an illusion means, even though you are moving faster (no one can argue against that), it does not mean you are getting to a certain location faster compared to the older Halos without sprint. I’ve read an abundant about of rebuttals to this statement and I decided to provide some statistics that could shine the light of why people have been stating that sprint is an Illusion.

I decided to time how fast it took to get to Pink Tower and to the opposite base in Midship (Halo 2), Heretic (Halo 3), and Truth (Halo 5). For Halo 5, I tested the amount of time it took to sprint and walk to both Pink Tower and the opposite base. I did a sample size of 10 trials for each game (10 each for sprint and walking in H5). I am going to provide the average of the times and spare people the boring statistical analysis portion of the math. Below is what I came up with during my testing. You are more than welcome to do your own and provide what you get.

Halo 2
Pink Tower – 7.15 seconds
Opposite Base – 14.30 seconds
Halo 3
Pink Tower – 7.21 seconds
Opposite Base – 14.41 seconds
Halo 5 – Sprinting
Pink Tower – 7.15 seconds
Opposite Base – 14.29
Halo 5 – Not Sprinting
Pink Tower – 9.18
Opposite Base – 18.24

After looking at these numbers, it provides you with a visual that even though you feel you are getting somewhere faster, it does not mean you did (an illusion). 343 had to increase the map size to compensate for sprint. I would like to also say, this post is not about the Halo population, other sprint effects, or flaming anyone. I’m just trying to provide more information to the discussion that is sprint.
Kek
If sprint is an illusion then why does it matter
I'm assuming these were done with normal sprint running, not slide boosting or slide jump thrusts for faster travel.
...and no difference was made. Sprint is here to stay in Halo.
yes
343 is incapable of grasping that the game is more fun without Sprint.
I bet Halo 6 will have Double Sprint. 'Press the stick in a second time to run even faster and sacrifice your ability to see!'
That was a joke...but now I fear 343 will see it and legitimately consider it.
FL Crysis wrote:
FL Crysis wrote:
There have been many discussions in regards to sprint in Halo. You have people that are Pro-Sprint, Anti-Sprint and neutral. After reading most of these threads, I noticed many people, myself included, on the Anti-Sprint side referring to sprint as an Illusion. Sprint as an illusion means, even though you are moving faster (no one can argue against that), it does not mean you are getting to a certain location faster compared to the older Halos without sprint. I’ve read an abundant about of rebuttals to this statement and I decided to provide some statistics that could shine the light of why people have been stating that sprint is an Illusion.

I decided to time how fast it took to get to Pink Tower and to the opposite base in Midship (Halo 2), Heretic (Halo 3), and Truth (Halo 5). For Halo 5, I tested the amount of time it took to sprint and walk to both Pink Tower and the opposite base. I did a sample size of 10 trials for each game (10 each for sprint and walking in H5). I am going to provide the average of the times and spare people the boring statistical analysis portion of the math. Below is what I came up with during my testing. You are more than welcome to do your own and provide what you get.

Halo 2
Pink Tower – 7.15 seconds
Opposite Base – 14.30 seconds
Halo 3
Pink Tower – 7.21 seconds
Opposite Base – 14.41 seconds
Halo 5 – Sprinting
Pink Tower – 7.15 seconds
Opposite Base – 14.29
Halo 5 – Not Sprinting
Pink Tower – 9.18
Opposite Base – 18.24

After looking at these numbers, it provides you with a visual that even though you feel you are getting somewhere faster, it does not mean you did (an illusion). 343 had to increase the map size to compensate for sprint. I would like to also say, this post is not about the Halo population, other sprint effects, or flaming anyone. I’m just trying to provide more information to the discussion that is sprint.
at the risk of someone flaming me, I'm gonna apply some logic here. How can the time spent traversing from a - b without sprint in a smaller map equal the same time as traversing from a - b on a larger map with sprint? That's literally covering more ground in the same time. Saying you can walk 100m in the same time it takes someone else to run 500m... Uh huh... Yeah, I'll play along...
The reason why you have to go 500 M instead of 100 M is because they had to accommodate sprint. If there wasn't sprint, then the maps would be 100M. So why put sprint in, if you are going to be in the same location at similar times?

FL Crysis wrote:
Bro, you need to get a job..
People who start a sentence with Bro usually don't have a great job. I have a career, not a job. Nice try acting like you know me.
If you want a smaller map then play on one. Applying broken logic as to why sprint is bad won't stop people from using it though, regardless of map size.
I like sprint.

And I understand that we have bigger maps with sprint so that the time to go from A to B may be similar.

But the difference is that I can now go A to B in relative safety.

Previously I was at the mercy of campers with the DMR or battle rifle. My only chance was to bunny hop my way through treacle and hope they missed a couple of shots.

But with sprint / thrust / jump... I can move across open spaces relatively safely. A skilled shot can still hit me a couple of times and take down my shields... but it's hard for him to outright kill me. I can now move relatively freely around the map!

So there you are... sprinting is GOOD for map flow... BAD for camping BRists.
63% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
63% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
No, just 100% of yours.
Darwi wrote:
I like sprint.

And I understand that we have bigger maps with sprint so that the time to go from A to B may be similar.

But the difference is that I can now go A to B in relative safety.

Previously I was at the mercy of campers with the DMR or battle rifle. My only chance was to bunny hop my way through treacle and hope they missed a couple of shots.

But with sprint / thrust / jump... I can move across open spaces relatively safely. A skilled shot can still hit me a couple of times and take down my shields... but it's hard for him to outright kill me. I can now move relatively freely around the map!

So there you are... sprinting is GOOD for map flow... BAD for camping BRists.
So much no...
So much yes... sprint = death of the bunny hoppers...
Darwi wrote:
So much yes... sprint = death of the bunny hoppers...
sprint = escaping death when you should have lost a battle and died for making poor initial decision movement
Your a super solider of war and you cant sprint............ Not much of a solider if you cant run....... Just Saying
Celestis wrote:
eLantern wrote:
The definition of an Arena Shooter is quasi-ambiguous at best; therefore, your argument regarding the removal of choice that players exhibit between movement and combat is what makes an Arena Shooter an Arena Shooter is extremely weak.
Name one arena shooter that has any mechanic that disables the ability to shoot.
I don't even know an arena shooter that has reload, much less sprint.

So clearly you have a much more traditional take on the term "Arena Shooter"; so much so that I suspect you haven't ever really qualified Halo as an Arena Shooter, right? Btw, if this is true why the hell would you care where the Halo franchise is taken with regards to mechanics? I suspect that any FPS not initially developed around the PC, has hit-scan vs projectile based weapons, aim assist, and any mechanics or influences that take away your ability to fire a weapon such as reload, sprint, or clamber doesn't really fit your definition of an "Arena Shooter", but I guess that's where we simply disagree. While I can appreciate the more traditional take on the term "Arena Shooter" in referencing a game title I still prefer how I perceive it given how the FPS genre has evolved over time and managed to find a home on consoles; nevertheless, there are many newer titles coming out that are throwbacks to the more traditional take on the term "Arena Shooter".

eLantern wrote:
By the way, it's my personal perspective on the term "Arena Shooter" that a game labeled with it often is focused greatly on some form of balance and a need to maintain control over vital positions as well as items that can be picked-up; all on a fairly compact map (aka small-ish)..
Also, I have yet to see an arena shooter that relies on the players holding strategic positions (save CtF or Bombing Run or other objective gametypes). Most if not all arena games revolve around constant map movement.

Any game designed with weapons to be picked-up on the map is one that often encourages the holding or locking down of key map locations; especially, at particular times during a match (weapon or item re-spawns). Not to mention, height typically provides an advantage too and there will be sections on a map which bolster that advantage more so than others. Map movement will always be encouraged as well if the designers have any competence as confronting opponents to defeat them is still a primary purpose of playing and the flanking tactic remains a vital offensive method to gain an advantage.
Responses in BOLD.
I'm assuming these were done with normal sprint running, not slide boosting or slide jump thrusts for faster travel.
That is correct. I did flag to flag from the bases going pink tower. I could do the combination of them, but I just focused on sprint.
Darwi wrote:
I like sprint.

And I understand that we have bigger maps with sprint so that the time to go from A to B may be similar.

But the difference is that I can now go A to B in relative safety.

Previously I was at the mercy of campers with the DMR or battle rifle. My only chance was to bunny hop my way through treacle and hope they missed a couple of shots.

But with sprint / thrust / jump... I can move across open spaces relatively safely. A skilled shot can still hit me a couple of times and take down my shields... but it's hard for him to outright kill me. I can now move relatively freely around the map!

So there you are... sprinting is GOOD for map flow... BAD for camping BRists.
I actually look at it the other way. The team who has map control has an even larger advantage if you are sprinting to a certain location, since they can have the first shot on you without you being able to shoot back. If a team sees a person sprint across the map, it's an easy kill.
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