Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

[Locked] The MANY, MANY things wrong with WZFF

OP MasterAndChief

  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. ...
  7. 13
I forgot to mention the three mantis that spawn on wave two. Even if the whole team focuses fire on one at a time it still takes two minutes to kill one. Seeing how each wave is 5 minutes it damn near impossible to finish.
Agreed. I just hope they give us a difficulty option.
Agreed on every point. Some things I think we're a bit too excessive on the solution side but overall, you nailed it.

I'd say if nothing else... Round 5 bosses are the biggest issue. I think most of us are probably losing 8-9 out of every ten matches. And in probably 6-7 of those, it's in round 5. 3 -Yoinking!- warden eternals, one being mythic, all spawning in a cramped building where you can barely fit a vehicle (let alone maneuver, dodge, readjust or even get in position to simply hit your target) is a bit insane. ESPECIALLY considering how weak power weapons are on these bosses. Not to mention half the team is missing because of the 3 hour spawn delay. And even when they do spawn, they are way too far away to bring a heavy vehicle in time.

It's a fun mode and I love how challenging it can be, despite it being a challenge for arguably the wrong reasons, but yeah. It needs some tweaking.
Agreed on every point. Some things I think we're a bit too excessive on the solution side but overall, you nailed it.

I'd say if nothing else... Round 5 bosses are the biggest issue. I think most of us are probably losing 8-9 out of every ten matches. And in probably 6-7 of those, it's in round 5. 3 -Yoinking!- warden eternals, one being mythic, all spawning in a cramped building where you can barely fit a vehicle (let alone maneuver, dodge, readjust or even get in position to simply hit your target) is a bit insane. ESPECIALLY considering how weak power weapons are on these bosses. Not to mention half the team is missing because of the 3 hour spawn delay. And even when they do spawn, they are way too far away to bring a heavy vehicle in time.

It's a fun mode and I love how challenging it can be, despite it being a challenge for arguably the wrong reasons, but yeah. It needs some tweaking.
I Couldn't agree more! Round 5 and some of those hard early rounds are infuriating. I might have been too excessive with some of my suggestions, but I just want it more balanced to where winning isn't such a rare accomplishment :)
I can pretty much agree with most of this. One thing I would add is for me the REQ recharge is to slow and if you die right away you can't be useful for a long time.
xj3ewok wrote:
I forgot to mention the three mantis that spawn on wave two. Even if the whole team focuses fire on one at a time it still takes two minutes to kill one. Seeing how each wave is 5 minutes it damn near impossible to finish.
I have not had that happen to me yet but that also sounds broken, hope they have a patch soon.
I agree with everything you mentioned.

Yesterday i played Urban and we failed at the 2nd round because everyone was at req 3-4 and we were supposed to take out like 4 banshees. We had absolutely nothing to kill them with.

We lost that round without taking out a single banshee.

I also dislike how the enemies are bullet sponges that basically just stand around or barely walk around.
Yes exactly, I've said this before. WZFF is not hard due to my lack of skill, I top the leaderboard in almost every game, but due to the terrible overall design, which you pointed out the flaws. I should also add, promethean enemies being constantly teleported in, to get in the way of the boss is not in the spirit of the round based action of firefight. Enemies spawn at the start of the round and that's it, I hate how enemies spawn in non stop until you kill the boss, it doesn't make it fun, it's just makes it almost pointless killing the support enemies if they keep spawning in.
So decrease AI health, decrease AI accuracy, decrease AI damage, make REQ level up happen faster, give us more ammo for our REQs, and dont let bosses spawn in hard to reach places? seems a tad overkill to me.

I love the challenge of a Pve thing where you win < 50% of the time, yet there are a few major flaws some of which that you mentioned.
1. Show objective location before enemies spawn in so you dont waste 30 sec walking across the entire map
2. Let us level up our REQs faster or hold off on tanky objectives till later rounds
3. The current spawn system is just annoying. Either set the increased spawn time to be based off of each death - not each round or set it to a constant 15 or 20 sec but allow for revives from teammates, at least in the later rounds.

Maybe add more REQ stations around the map or give us unlimited magnum ammo or something. Too often do you end up completely out of ammo, especially since youre avoiding death with the incredibly long respawn timers. Then most REQs run out pretty quick which almost discourages their use as you know youll have to run to a REQ station even sooner

Also maybe change the way promethian cannon fodder spawn in as it happens so quickly without warning and can happen right on top of you where you have no chance for survival.
So decrease AI health, decrease AI accuracy, decrease AI damage, make REQ level up happen faster, give us more ammo for our REQs, and dont let bosses spawn in hard to reach places? seems a tad overkill to me.

I love the challenge of a Pve thing where you win < 50% of the time, yet there are a few major flaws some of which that you mentioned.
1. Show objective location before enemies spawn in so you dont waste 30 sec walking across the entire map
2. Let us level up our REQs faster or hold off on tanky objectives till later rounds
3. The current spawn system is just annoying. Either set the increased spawn time to be based off of each death - not each round or set it to a constant 15 or 20 sec but allow for revives from teammates, at least in the later rounds.

Maybe add more REQ stations around the map or give us unlimited magnum ammo or something. Too often do you end up completely out of ammo, especially since youre avoiding death with the incredibly long respawn timers. Then most REQs run out pretty quick which almost discourages their use as you know youll have to run to a REQ station even sooner

Also maybe change the way promethian cannon fodder spawn in as it happens so quickly without warning and can happen right on top of you where you have no chance for survival.
I agree, I think op went a little overboard with some suggested nerfs, but the flaws pointed out are strong points.
You get my upvote OP. Although I'm really enjoying FF as it is, all your arguments are things that hold the mode back from its true potential. All these gripes are also definitely things that 343 can tweak over time, so here's hoping they're reading up on your excellent post :)
Fourseer wrote:
There's also the defend the garage or armory round where A.I. spawn inside of it and there's ridiculous amounts of them.
Its the spawning inside thing that is the issue, i like the fact there are alot of them
K27R wrote:
Excellent article and spot on
exactly
Fourseer wrote:
There's also the defend the garage or armory round where A.I. spawn inside of it and there's ridiculous amounts of them.
Yup one of the many things that 343 should have realized is not fair during internal testing.
Maybe they didn't realized this because they played in the same room, everyone with a mic and speaking the same language, and of course, everyone having all the req unlocked and infinite req cards of banshees, rockets, tanks, etc... ?
A good strategy against Banshees/Phaetons and also Mantis Bosses is the Blue REQ Plasma Pistol (Void of Tears I think?).

For example, after shooting a Phaeton, with a little bit of luck it will turn upside down, making it an instant kill.
Banshees on Stormbreak will fall to death outside the map after shooting them.
Also Railguns/Spartan Lasers do a great job on Urban for example.

Yes it´s tough, but sometimes you just need to have the right weapon for the right job :) Makes those rounds a lot easier.
why are people not posting this on the official feedback forum as then 343 are more likely to see these comments and fix the problems
Let me start off by saying that I enjoy this gamemode overall and I think it is a very good addition to Halo 5, still should have been in at launch, but there are a lot of problems that exist in the mode that severely hinder it form being as best as it can be.When people complain about the difficulty I think these reasons are what they are complaining about as some of the problems make some rounds simply undo-able and that is not a measure of skill, it's just a lack of balance and no fun. I think if these problems are fixed then it will be a much more fun and enjoyable mode.

1. AI Are Bullet Sponges: I hated this aspect of Destiny and do not like it in Halo 5 either. To make the AI or bosses more challenging they should try adding more dodge and defense actions as well as THE USE OF COVER. The AI overall never do anything except for sit in one spot and move around in a small radius while sitting in the open eating bullets, for good reason as they can eat a lot. At the current state the AI feel as if they all have mythic level health. This is not just for the bosses but for their ads as well. I think the health of all enemies should be equal to heroic-legendary difficulty and give them more attack and defense options and the ability for cover usage.

2. The AI have incredible accuracy: I think everyone has had a moment or time where they are incredibly far away or dodging an attack from an AI but it can not be dodged due to their lock on auto aim weapons. The AI seem to know how to make every single shot connect even when using automatics, I once had a Promethean soldier using a saw that was able to kill me in a ghost as I was doing ramming runs and trying to get away from him but somehow he was able to continuously shoot me with the saw for 4 seconds without missing a shot and while I was boosting away atleast 50 meters. They also seem to be able to use guns for longer range then the guns are capable of doing when in the player's hands. Reduce their accuracy by about 25% I would say and make that percentage increase for every 5 meters away the player is so if I am 50 meters away from an AI with an automatic his accuracy percentage is around 50% or less. PS. Nerf the Phaetons as their primary gun does not miss a single shot ever when you are within their line of sight.

3. The damage output of the AI is TOO HIGH: The Damage output is close to being correct but not quite there, of course a large problem of the AI damage output lays with their godly accuracy. Nevertheless, I think the Enemy Damage should be reduced by around 30% and increase in damage by 10% as every round goes on. I do not like how any AI regardless of what type they are is able to kill me in 0.1-1 second. It seems silly that I should have to run away from 2 soldiers in round 2 because they can kill me so fast, also get rid of their teleportation. No on likes it, make them use cover instead.

4. Some Rounds are simply not possible at lower levels: When round 2 has an objective of taking down four banshee raiders that kill everything on sight instantly, there is a big problem as no one quite has the reqs to take them down within 5 minutes. I've had a game before where we had two warthogs out trying to damage them but with their accuracy and damage output the warthogs were no chance and their ads guarding them in ghosts were making it even more impossible. The Wardens on Round 3 on Apex 7, nothing to be said there, I don't know who thought of that. The wardens spawning on early rounds are not possible. And if it says to kill 75 soldiers. Spawn 75 soldiers in at once. Not 5-10 soldiers with a couple dozen crawlers and 4 knights and then making us kill all of them before spawning more in. If you are going to do that then double the timer.

5. Near Impossible-Impossible Boss Rounds: This is another one that I have heard almost universal agreement on. Atleast in the beta the bosses spawned outside. Now whenever the bosses consist of three bullet spongy insta kill wardens they are inside a small confined space that protects them from all vehicle damage and their constant spawning ads can almost kill scorpions in seconds. I don't know how any of the developers thought this was fun or smart when designing the mode. 343 Dev: "Oh I think it would be great if on round 5 a mantis spawns inside the garage where no vehicles can damage him and then we spawn 10 knights with legendary incineration canons that keep spawning to defend him. I think the players will love almost never being able to beat this round unless they spend 14.99 to buy more powerful reqs." The boss spawns on the final rounds are in the absolute worst spots end of story. They are always inside and always surrounded by incredibly powerful ads, usually knights. Please spawn all bosses outside so we can actually win the round, and please not so many knights. Pipap Deacon is near impossible in the time frame given he has so many knights helping him out and he has his own lock on needle rounds that will destroy your vehicle with ease.

6. Make Weapon Reqs useful: Right now weapon reqs are useless due to not enough damage output and the incredibly small amount of ammo. I think to make weapon reqs useful they should be good for an entire round of WZFF that way a rocket launcher will actually be useful against the warden. Either make them have three times as much ammo and the ability to refill it throughout the round or unlimited ammo for the round. Even being able to refill it a couple times at a req station would be a lot better then the current setup. Using a weapon req is entirely useless.

7. Respawn timers and Spawn killed: Not much to be said here. Respawn timers are too long right now and afterwards we respawn too far away from battle to be of much help. Please reduce spawn penalties, or make it so the timer only increase if you as a player die individually. If I do not die once until round 4 my timer should still be 10 seconds. On the opposite end I have been spawn killed in vehicles many times due to the AI being right next the vehicle spawn points or the phantoms with indestructible guns shooting at me after I leave the garage.

I think if you address these complaints 343 then you will have something truly special in your game and if you want even more players returning and more longevity in your game then adding classic survival based firefight would cater to a lot of the veteran players and be something cool and new for the newer players. Anyone reading this feel free to give more suggestions and ideas, but please back up ideas or criticisms :)
These are the exact issues me and my fireteam are having we still love the game mode but this will improve it by far
I am with you on all points, especially on the req weapon ammo one. They are currently designed to kill enemy PLAYERS or a Single minor boss, not the amount of enemies we are currently facing, the ammo for these needs to be unlimited or get a massive increase in reserve ammo. In fact, all loadout weapons needs a massive increase in reserve ammo for Firefight.
I like the amo point. If I pull the rockets to destroy flying target, I get spawn far away and got kill while getting to bosses or I use all my rockets to get to them, leaving me with br again to fight them.
Never the less WZFF is really good fun.
Agreed. It can be troublesome at times.
  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. ...
  7. 13