Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

[Locked] The MANY, MANY things wrong with WZFF

OP MasterAndChief

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My biggest issue is difficult bosses on round 2. Can't tell you how many times I've lost a game because we have to take down 4 Phaeton Helmsmen or 6 Serpent Hunters (who are spread around the map, and difficult to reach) with assault rifles.

My other concern is the amount of support the bosses get. If the round tells you to eliminate the Grunt Goblin, but no vehicle can get near it because it is literally surrounded by 20 Knights, there's an issue. Especially when it takes you all round to kill it, but that's just part one. Next thing you know 2 Serpent Hunters spawn in, also surrounded by Knights and there's only 30 seconds left on the clock.

I actually enjoy one of the round options you get on Attack on Sanctum, where there are two Warden Eternals up top, where no vehicle can get to them. It's challenging but.. somehow not too challenging? I don't think I've ever failed that round. Perhaps I'm just in the lucky few.

I do, however, think that I enjoy this game type as much as I do because of the amount of REQs it throws at me. I don't feel like I'm wasting anything because I'll get it back in droves when the match is over. Is the Golden REQ thing only temporary? Because I don't think I'll play as much after it's done, assuming that's the case.
You didn't mention Firefight limits your action like boarding and hijacking, which makes only option to kill bullet sponges is shooting.
Couldn't agree more.
I disagree completely.. The difficulty is what makes it not boring . You all have to remember its 8 player co-op so work together and use your good reqs . Vehicles early to splatter is effective and will move your rank up faster.
lFerdovvs wrote:
Whats people's problem man? Really? Did you guys never played FF in reach? Damn. It is supposed to be really hard and that you can't win it easily. I win around 60% of my games and I try really hard and spawn a lot, but thats the fun part I think. If they start nerving FF it will destroy the game type.

The only thing that should me nerved imo is the aim of AI at long range, thats it. Close range AI should have OP aim. Do you miss yourself when you are close to an AI? No, so why should the AI miss.

People are way too lazy and just want an easy game type. FF was never easy and I hope it will never be. The beta was way too easy.
I used to solo ODST Firefight quite often. I created my own version of Firefight in Reach that was almost exactly like ODST that required Legendary to play properly. Tell me again how "lazy" I am and how much I want an "easy game type".

Firefight is supposed to be hard, yes, but the way 343 did it is absurd. You don't make a game hard by making the A.I. bullet sponges that do insane amounts of damage and never miss a shot. You make them dynamic. Make them take cover. Make them rush the player out of cover, attack in groups. Use squad tactics like the Brutes in Halo 3 where they would all throw grenades at the same time on their leader's orders.

To the OP of this thread, I agree with you. You've said exactly what I've been saying in other threads, but with a lot more detail. A.I. health, their damage output, accuracy, and our respawn timers have been my major issues with this version of Firefight and I'm glad someone put all these points into a thread that's receiving mostly positive responses.

Hopefully 343 can take some action on this and improve the game based on this feedback.
First match I played started the round with the defend the garage objective and because we were only at req level one it was impossible when there were multiple knights spawning in alongside crawlers and soldiers and we only had assault rifles and pistols.
yep countless times ive spawned with a hannibal scorpion only for it to be taken down by a grunt mech with one hit its just a waste of time
You are so right my friend! i hope 343 are seeing this!
There nothing wrong with it the only problems I experience are the OP Bosses on low level REQ's and lagging out..
Let me start off by saying that I enjoy this gamemode overall and I think it is a very good addition to Halo 5, still should have been in at launch, but there are a lot of problems that exist in the mode that severely hinder it form being as best as it can be.When people complain about the difficulty I think these reasons are what they are complaining about as some of the problems make some rounds simply undo-able and that is not a measure of skill, it's just a lack of balance and no fun. I think if these problems are fixed then it will be a much more fun and enjoyable mode.

1. AI Are Bullet Sponges: I hated this aspect of Destiny and do not like it in Halo 5 either. To make the AI or bosses more challenging they should try adding more dodge and defense actions as well as THE USE OF COVER. The AI overall never do anything except for sit in one spot and move around in a small radius while sitting in the open eating bullets, for good reason as they can eat a lot. At the current state the AI feel as if they all have mythic level health. This is not just for the bosses but for their ads as well. I think the health of all enemies should be equal to heroic-legendary difficulty and give them more attack and defense options and the ability for cover usage.

2. The AI have incredible accuracy: I think everyone has had a moment or time where they are incredibly far away or dodging an attack from an AI but it can not be dodged due to their lock on auto aim weapons. The AI seem to know how to make every single shot connect even when using automatics, I once had a Promethean soldier using a saw that was able to kill me in a ghost as I was doing ramming runs and trying to get away from him but somehow he was able to continuously shoot me with the saw for 4 seconds without missing a shot and while I was boosting away atleast 50 meters. They also seem to be able to use guns for longer range then the guns are capable of doing when in the player's hands. Reduce their accuracy by about 25% I would say and make that percentage increase for every 5 meters away the player is so if I am 50 meters away from an AI with an automatic his accuracy percentage is around 50% or less. PS. Nerf the Phaetons as their primary gun does not miss a single shot ever when you are within their line of sight.

3. The damage output of the AI is TOO HIGH: The Damage output is close to being correct but not quite there, of course a large problem of the AI damage output lays with their godly accuracy. Nevertheless, I think the Enemy Damage should be reduced by around 30% and increase in damage by 10% as every round goes on. I do not like how any AI regardless of what type they are is able to kill me in 0.1-1 second. It seems silly that I should have to run away from 2 soldiers in round 2 because they can kill me so fast, also get rid of their teleportation. No on likes it, make them use cover instead.

4. Some Rounds are simply not possible at lower levels: When round 2 has an objective of taking down four banshee raiders that kill everything on sight instantly, there is a big problem as no one quite has the reqs to take them down within 5 minutes. I've had a game before where we had two warthogs out trying to damage them but with their accuracy and damage output the warthogs were no chance and their ads guarding them in ghosts were making it even more impossible. The Wardens on Round 3 on Apex 7, nothing to be said there, I don't know who thought of that. The wardens spawning on early rounds are not possible. And if it says to kill 75 soldiers. Spawn 75 soldiers in at once. Not 5-10 soldiers with a couple dozen crawlers and 4 knights and then making us kill all of them before spawning more in. If you are going to do that then double the timer.

5. Near Impossible-Impossible Boss Rounds: This is another one that I have heard almost universal agreement on. Atleast in the beta the bosses spawned outside. Now whenever the bosses consist of three bullet spongy insta kill wardens they are inside a small confined space that protects them from all vehicle damage and their constant spawning ads can almost kill scorpions in seconds. I don't know how any of the developers thought this was fun or smart when designing the mode. 343 Dev: "Oh I think it would be great if on round 5 a mantis spawns inside the garage where no vehicles can damage him and then we spawn 10 knights with legendary incineration canons that keep spawning to defend him. I think the players will love almost never being able to beat this round unless they spend 14.99 to buy more powerful reqs." The boss spawns on the final rounds are in the absolute worst spots end of story. They are always inside and always surrounded by incredibly powerful ads, usually knights. Please spawn all bosses outside so we can actually win the round, and please not so many knights. Pipap Deacon is near impossible in the time frame given he has so many knights helping him out and he has his own lock on needle rounds that will destroy your vehicle with ease.

6. Make Weapon Reqs useful: Right now weapon reqs are useless due to not enough damage output and the incredibly small amount of ammo. I think to make weapon reqs useful they should be good for an entire round of WZFF that way a rocket launcher will actually be useful against the warden. Either make them have three times as much ammo and the ability to refill it throughout the round or unlimited ammo for the round. Even being able to refill it a couple times at a req station would be a lot better then the current setup. Using a weapon req is entirely useless.

7. Respawn timers and Spawn killed: Not much to be said here. Respawn timers are too long right now and afterwards we respawn too far away from battle to be of much help. Please reduce spawn penalties, or make it so the timer only increase if you as a player die individually. If I do not die once until round 4 my timer should still be 10 seconds. On the opposite end I have been spawn killed in vehicles many times due to the AI being right next the vehicle spawn points or the phantoms with indestructible guns shooting at me after I leave the garage.

I think if you address these complaints 343 then you will have something truly special in your game and if you want even more players returning and more longevity in your game then adding classic survival based firefight would cater to a lot of the veteran players and be something cool and new for the newer players. Anyone reading this feel free to give more suggestions and ideas, but please back up ideas or criticisms :)
Agree 100%.You pretty much nailed it here.
I would forgive all of those points if they could at least increase that stupid 5 min timer !
At least make it 6 minutes darn it !

The amount of times I lost in the final 20-30 seconds is insane. This isn't fun. It's INFURIATING !
I love using Tarturus Gavel on them. It destroys knights like nothing. And I kinda think thats how firefight was, a losing battle. Some reqs are very useful though like the answer. Although the respawn locations are kinda ridiculous? I don't blame the vehicle ones, I would want to spawn my vehicle as far away from the battle, so I don't get camped. Same goes for regular spawning, however some are just way too far away from it. So it could either be a good thing or a bad thing.
And being able to choose our spawn would be great. I don't like when it auto spawns me on the other side of the map. I spawn and tank and it puts me in the garage in butt F@#$ no where. There are 3 garages I could spawn in please let me choose so I can quickly get back into action. But I agree some bosses are too difficult at lower levels.

And the mantis in the garage is complete bull. Last I played that we all gave up hope and just killed random AIs insted. I've have 4 games where we had to get the mantis we never succeed.
Well written OP. I've been playing WZFF for the past few days and every issue I've screamed at the TV for you have listed here. Looks like it's not just me. At the same time......I do secretly kind of like the super difficulty.
I thought this was just going to be a rant but it's pretty reasonable and logical. I agree with all of the above and add in lower respond times. I say add 2 seconds after each round would do the trick.
Long story short the OP is saying Firefight is too hard and req weapons need for ammo the later I agree with completely along with the respawn changes, it would actually be a lot easier if that was changed slightly
K, so what are Harder level enemies in most games? They usually bullet sponge, or take longer to kill then lower level enemies in other words. Unless of course they have weak spots.
Many of the problems boil down to the articfical difficulty, being thst it's not the aspect of a challenge but rather an inherit design aspect that, no matter how skilled you are, these issues just bounce back and are the prime reason you lose.

warzone firefight is fun, better than regular warzone as.the req system actually benefits it more.

but it's like playing Mario kart, you can be in first then the games rng just has you get nailed by a blue shell while you cannot do a damned thing.

the major problems are:

bosses have far far too much life

spawning is atrocious and mixed with the increasing respawning timer, yeah come back after 30 secs, get whacked off by a random mob, on the hike back.

speaking of which, our spawning system is just in the mood to put us 200 meters away while our foes spawn right on top of it.

Enemy reenforcements have no limit to how many come in

enemies, mostly the soldiers, have far far too much life, aside from the aforementioned hi aiming, just a one on one situation against even one low tier crawler is a risk.

enemy life is like, say compared to campaign on heroic or legendary, a higher tier or highest rank elite or soldier would take around 2-3 full clips for a battle rifle or so. In this mode, it feels like that is the life on mid range tiered elites, even grunts and crawlers take more than they should, by an ar or smg.

Yes we have headshot weaponry, but you cannot just headshot a soldier or elite. This problem is bigger for promethians.

Going into this mode, it should be more like the enemies power is their larger numbers, not just absurd power plus numbers where they win by bum rushing.

It feel so much like a slog and just a rubberbanding aspect when as much as you try, you can't make even one mistake
Its like you read my mind XD
Only issue I have is that you should pick your spawn point and be able to spectate others while your dead.
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