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The ranking system. Champs perspective.

OP Tetrafy

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Tetrafy wrote:
This right here. I run solos in Arena Slayer. Two years ago I could run solo and get to Onyx 1600 easy.

Now I consistently go from Diamond 1 to Diamond 6 on a weekly basis because I just simply go down from losing to Champs running 3’s with One Iron and meanwhile I’m the only Diamond 6 on my team and the rest are Plat/Gold.

What the -Yoink- happened to matchmaking in this game? Every -Yoinking!- game is a toss up.

I find myself just not even giving a -Yoink- sometimes because I’m so annoyed with the uneven matchup that I just play like I don’t give a -Yoink-. And what’s stupid is I have to stay in a game that is a given loss because if I quit and move on to the next—I lose even more points.

It’s crazy that H3 Team Slayer on MCC is a more even matchup that -Yoinking!- H5 Arena. What a time to be alive.
If two people quit you can quit no penalty. Make ot a bit less stressful.
I'm so glad I know this now :). I'm not a quitter--just not a fan of wasting my time. I love Halo. I love playing competitive Halo with even matchups even more though.
Tetrafy wrote:
This right here. I run solos in Arena Slayer. Two years ago I could run solo and get to Onyx 1600 easy.

Now I consistently go from Diamond 1 to Diamond 6 on a weekly basis because I just simply go down from losing to Champs running 3’s with One Iron and meanwhile I’m the only Diamond 6 on my team and the rest are Plat/Gold.

What the -Yoink- happened to matchmaking in this game? Every -Yoinking!- game is a toss up.

I find myself just not even giving a -Yoink- sometimes because I’m so annoyed with the uneven matchup that I just play like I don’t give a -Yoink-. And what’s stupid is I have to stay in a game that is a given loss because if I quit and move on to the next—I lose even more points.

It’s crazy that H3 Team Slayer on MCC is a more even matchup that -Yoinking!- H5 Arena. What a time to be alive.
Well nerfing teamplay forces you to play with a gold or diamond just so on your losses you dont lose csr. Because onyxs never play on their onyx so you match champs diamonds and plats. Ill give you an example I played with naptimes for like 16 games 1 csr per game eve if I got more kills than him regardless lf who we played Im like 2 csr Way from champ. Lose one game down with another low onyx against 2 chamos down 10 csr. Search with some diamonds or a plat 10 csr on my wins instead of 1. My two loses solo 10 csr loss going 26 and 5.
Wow I never even knew fully how the ranking system determined csr in case like that. Thank you so much for explaining this.
Tetrafy wrote:
IGRS wrote:
IGRS wrote:
IGRS wrote:
xSERVANTx wrote:
I agree. I believe for the most part, you should be ranked by personal stats on your team. I sucks when you have more kills then everyone on the enemy team and the least amount of deaths from everyone and still get de-ranked because your team lost in a match of slayer.
everyone should be ranked on the individual player. Not the result of the winning team.
and it should rank you differently based on the game type.....
Ranking FAQ
Your personal stats are the primary way you get ranked. For example you could lose all 10 placement matches and get placed diamond 3. Wins are needed to actually gain csr but you’ll gain way more than you lose on a loss if it’s always your teammates’ fault.

And to everyone else in this thread, read the FAQ if you haven’t already, there’s a lot of misconceptions in here.
that was brought up in another thread a while back...the main gripe here is after your initial rank, rank is increased by Wins/Losses. Furthermore placing teams with rank diamond and three silvers against two champs and diamonds. While its attempting to do a 'team balance', it is failing to place balance on KDA which is most closely ranked with skill. furthermore the system will punish players that receive a loss even if their play was excellent or even above their average. placement needs to be more fine tuned to each player and then implemented when choosing teams beyond the first ten games of placement.

if you don't believe me check the leaderboards and see the extreme differences in KDA of the Champions ranks. There's one person currently who barely has over a 1.0xx that is ranked Champion. The system bases your rank after the preliminary placement on Wins/Losses.

Most people want their skill to be reflected in their arena rank which is why 1-50 was so well liked. Not necessarily how many wins/losses you have which is clearly based on teammates play 3/4 (most of the time) as well as your own 1/4.
That’s incorrect. The system always uses your performance even after placement. The variance in KD and KDA is due to strength of competition vs your team’s strength.

This system is the exact same as the 1-50 with a different skin to allow ranks over 50.
That was debunked in the other thread (1-50 scaling being the exact same method) as well and anyone that can see, can use their eye balls and see little green arrows or little red arrows after placement matches. It may take those into consideration but it is by no means the basis of consideration. It's literally in the first sentence or two in that 'FAQ' you linked.
What are you talking about? You need to win to go up, but your MMR is what reflects your actual skill, and therefore puts some boundaries on your rank. That’s why you can have a 30% win rate and be a champion.

Furthermore, csr update is delayed by a game meaning that whatever amount you go up or down is actually affected by the previous game.

You are wrong on 1-50 as well:
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/58b8518e005f432381ab99fbcaf931e0/topics/matchmaking-feedback-update-–-march-27/7d7a1605-3aab-41ff-9950-95a9afbc29bc/posts?page=1#post2

in this thread Menke clearly states this is the exact same system that was in Halo 3.
Except csr gains are limited and also you didnt get penalized searching as a team in Halo 3. Not to mentiom they soft locked diamond. MMR is a joke and based on spm. So if I go 12 and 4 every game the guy who goes 18 and 14 is a better player which makes no sense. Why implement a system that caps csr to 10 when the population is so low that you only get 1 csr games. I also notice if you play with a champ and do just as well youll rank up quicker but if you win even a close lobby with diamond onyx Ive hardly moved. Just put it back to pre 2019 with csr limitations and idc. Like I used to get 30 for a win against champs now, Ill get 1 becaude the game will pruposfully make games that give lpw csr by adding golds and plats. If its a population issue fix the csr games. 30 games 1 csr each its a joke. Most people who are in the top 200 agree.
What you just said is basically my matchmaking experience except I'm locked in Diamond unless I consider running 3's with a pair of onyx's maybe. They won't trust playing with a Diamond 1, even though my KDA is about 1.xx. Oh well. Haha
Tetrafy wrote:
IGRS wrote:
IGRS wrote:
IGRS wrote:
xSERVANTx wrote:
I agree. I believe for the most part, you should be ranked by personal stats on your team. I sucks when you have more kills then everyone on the enemy team and the least amount of deaths from everyone and still get de-ranked because your team lost in a match of slayer.
everyone should be ranked on the individual player. Not the result of the winning team.
and it should rank you differently based on the game type.....
Ranking FAQ
Your personal stats are the primary way you get ranked. For example you could lose all 10 placement matches and get placed diamond 3. Wins are needed to actually gain csr but you’ll gain way more than you lose on a loss if it’s always your teammates’ fault.

And to everyone else in this thread, read the FAQ if you haven’t already, there’s a lot of misconceptions in here.
that was brought up in another thread a while back...the main gripe here is after your initial rank, rank is increased by Wins/Losses. Furthermore placing teams with rank diamond and three silvers against two champs and diamonds. While its attempting to do a 'team balance', it is failing to place balance on KDA which is most closely ranked with skill. furthermore the system will punish players that receive a loss even if their play was excellent or even above their average. placement needs to be more fine tuned to each player and then implemented when choosing teams beyond the first ten games of placement.

if you don't believe me check the leaderboards and see the extreme differences in KDA of the Champions ranks. There's one person currently who barely has over a 1.0xx that is ranked Champion. The system bases your rank after the preliminary placement on Wins/Losses.

Most people want their skill to be reflected in their arena rank which is why 1-50 was so well liked. Not necessarily how many wins/losses you have which is clearly based on teammates play 3/4 (most of the time) as well as your own 1/4.
That’s incorrect. The system always uses your performance even after placement. The variance in KD and KDA is due to strength of competition vs your team’s strength.

This system is the exact same as the 1-50 with a different skin to allow ranks over 50.
That was debunked in the other thread (1-50 scaling being the exact same method) as well and anyone that can see, can use their eye balls and see little green arrows or little red arrows after placement matches. It may take those into consideration but it is by no means the basis of consideration. It's literally in the first sentence or two in that 'FAQ' you linked.
What are you talking about? You need to win to go up, but your MMR is what reflects your actual skill, and therefore puts some boundaries on your rank. That’s why you can have a 30% win rate and be a champion.

Furthermore, csr update is delayed by a game meaning that whatever amount you go up or down is actually affected by the previous game.

You are wrong on 1-50 as well:
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/58b8518e005f432381ab99fbcaf931e0/topics/matchmaking-feedback-update-–-march-27/7d7a1605-3aab-41ff-9950-95a9afbc29bc/posts?page=1#post2

in this thread Menke clearly states this is the exact same system that was in Halo 3.
Except csr gains are limited and also you didnt get penalized searching as a team in Halo 3. Not to mentiom they soft locked diamond. MMR is a joke and based on spm. So if I go 12 and 4 every game the guy who goes 18 and 14 is a better player which makes no sense. Why implement a system that caps csr to 10 when the population is so low that you only get 1 csr games. I also notice if you play with a champ and do just as well youll rank up quicker but if you win even a close lobby with diamond onyx Ive hardly moved. Just put it back to pre 2019 with csr limitations and idc. Like I used to get 30 for a win against champs now, Ill get 1 becaude the game will pruposfully make games that give lpw csr by adding golds and plats. If its a population issue fix the csr games. 30 games 1 csr each its a joke. Most people who are in the top 200 agree.
What you just said is basically my matchmaking experience except I'm locked in Diamond unless I consider running 3's with a pair of onyx's maybe. They won't trust playing with a Diamond 1, even though my KDA is about 1.xx. Oh well. Haha
Well if you have time sometime I can show you how I got to where I am.
qlimm wrote:
Look, if you get 1 CSR per game it means either the odds of winning are heavily in your favor or you didn't do anything worthy of increasing your rank.

I hate to break it to you but the population cannot support making fair games against stacked teams. If you want a break from +1/-10 games then I suggest you solo queue.
You're failing to realize that people are purposely stacking their team certain ways to

1 - prevent them from losing a ton of csr on their losses (meaning when they lose, the winners get close to nothing from it as well...even if they just beat a team holding a high onyx or champ...if that team loses they lose a ton)

2- it allows the best player to get an insane amount of kills in match from skewing the matchmaking and getting them easier matches....boosting their gains...being the best player on their team where they're not only better than everyone on their team, but also everyone on the other team as well...where that other team will have far less skilled players. I've even first hand witnessed a team feeding all the kills to 1 player. So sometimes it isn't even that 1 is way better....it's an organized strategy to work the system...using any means possible.

Does that high onyx player deserve to gain a boost because his high amount of kills over some daimonds shows he's "worthy" of the increase?

I hate to break it to you, but the matchmaking isn't creating those weird teams with 1 low tier player and 3 high tier accidentally. No. That's actually an actual team created on purpose. Sometimes its a different mix, but the idea behind it remains the same.

Sometimes we can give the benefit of the doubt...MAYBE...They're actually just all friends....and MAYBE...that's just how things naturally are...but who are we kidding here? Obviously smurf accts exist....derankers exist...are we naive enough to believe this is just...."accidentally " happening?....

When this stuff happens...I always encourage people to go into waypoint and inspect the winning teams match history to see if they're actually running as a fire team. Much more often than not....sure enough...despite it looking like randoms pulled together...it's an actual team on a win streak...and it's no wonder why they're on that win streak.

On one hand...it makes the player think to themselves "alright...well...I understand it....it is what it is..."

On the other hand It makes the player want to just quit. It's frustrating to have those matches where a silver acct...even gold or low plat acct..is actually a higher tier player disguising the MMR to get the controlled wins in matchmaking...

Not everyone is doing this...but it happens enough to sour someone's entire night...when you win a crap ton of games in a row and hardly get jack crap for it...and lose 1 or 2 games to get smacked down lower than you started for the night.

A few years ago we had a disastrous time with the ranking system worse than it is now. I created a thread with a title like...."the ranking system encourages people to quit" or something like that. During that time, we experienced inflated csr...and players gaining nothing but losing a ton for losses. The monitors at the time were explaining to us that the new system will eventually correct itself...and quitters aren't playing because they want to keep their fake rank. (Which btw, still shows as highest csr achieved on waypoint)...maybe some couldn't swallow that pill that they aren't as good as they thought...but the reality we were facing....the entire expression I tried to express in the created thread...was that we NEED an IMMEDIATE reset before to many players quit halo 5 forever. Let the system correct itself from a fresh start, where players play a new set of 10 placement matches. They were so against this idea.

The rank creator himself even came to reply to the thread. He went as far to say that a inflated csr player would have to maintain a 94% win ratio to keep the inflated rank they got....no way...not possible...definitely that player won't stick around to get spanked down to where they belong....surely there's a better way to manage this hiccup...

My advice again...a reset...players want a sense of progress for winning....NO...we don't expect to continue to move up forever by winning lower ranked players...but to gain 1 csr for wins that feel like we should gain more and lose 10csr for bs losses...come on...story of a halo 5 players life....even today...(back then you'd get 0csr tho)

The disastrous time caused many players to quit halo 5. Players that never came back...idk wth the people in charge were thinking...

Halos longevity revolves around player retention...it may be seen as a wasted effort to attempt any modifications to the ranking system at this point while the other game is being worked on.
I hope the next halo learns from all the mistakes made in h5 to prevent such drastic player fall off...we've lost some and gained some sure....but idk if it's ever specifically stated what areas those players end up playing in..a new installation can count as a new player...but who knows how long that new player even stuck around...

I bring up this little bit of history here because it's crazy how we still deal with issues...somewhere in the infinite threads..someone said the only real remedy to prevent most of the BS we face in our ranking systems is to stop allowing alt accts to be created...preventing smurfing...dummy accts etc. It honestly feels like that's the easiest way....

But there's always gona be deals for new accts. Get a month free....x months for 1$ etc. It's impossible to have a perfect system.

The ranking system is probably in reality...really good...but the population, MM, and weird team ups just doesn't allow it to be seen that way. This threads from a champs perspective...and I'm just a very average player. I don't believe you have to be a god tier player to have an opinion though. Most of us still here today...play because we love halo. Some are grinding for that max SR....but those of us that are happy to spend hours on end in some slayer matches...we're the die hards. We can't play anything but this dang game. Lol

Sorry if I went off on a rant there. So here's some opinions and...even some historical facts...from an average players perspective. For whatever it's worth.
Pheinted wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Look, if you get 1 CSR per game it means either the odds of winning are heavily in your favor or you didn't do anything worthy of increasing your rank.

I hate to break it to you but the population cannot support making fair games against stacked teams. If you want a break from +1/-10 games then I suggest you solo queue.
You're failing to realize that people are purposely stacking their team certain ways to

1 - prevent them from losing a ton of csr on their losses (meaning when they lose, the winners get close to nothing from it as well...even if they just beat a team holding a high onyx or champ...if that team loses they lose a ton)

2- it allows the best player to get an insane amount of kills in match from skewing the matchmaking and getting them easier matches....boosting their gains...being the best player on their team where they're not only better than everyone on their team, but also everyone on the other team as well...where that other team will have far less skilled players. I've even first hand witnessed a team feeding all the kills to 1 player. So sometimes it isn't even that 1 is way better....it's an organized strategy to work the system...using any means possible.

Does that high onyx player deserve to gain a boost because his high amount of kills over some daimonds shows he's "worthy" of the increase?

I hate to break it to you, but the matchmaking isn't creating those weird teams with 1 low tier player and 3 high tier accidentally. No. That's actually an actual team created on purpose. Sometimes its a different mix, but the idea behind it remains the same.
Regarding your first point, yeah if you stack a team basically guaranteeing a win you don't deserve to rank up. Just like if you bet on the favorite horse you aren't going to get much in return. If you go in solo queuing you will likely lose more games but your potential CSR loss decreases while your potential CSR gain increases (the exact opposite of going in with a to4). I am assuming the player's performance is staying relatively the same (and yes, TS2 factors in teammates when predicting your KPM).

The team of 3 good players and one atrocious player is because the team of three players are better than the opposing team, so the matchmaker is trying to balance out the teams so that the winner has to prove they are better through gameplay, not by picking teammates in the pregame lobby.

Also, just because you "feel" like you should've earned more than 1 CSR or lost less than 10 doesn't mean you deserved it. As far as I know, TS2 is not sentient and does not care about feelings.

The system still makes unwinnable games and these usually result in minimal CSR movement for both sides.
qlimm wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Look, if you get 1 CSR per game it means either the odds of winning are heavily in your favor or you didn't do anything worthy of increasing your rank.

I hate to break it to you but the population cannot support making fair games against stacked teams. If you want a break from +1/-10 games then I suggest you solo queue.
You're failing to realize that people are purposely stacking their team certain ways to

1 - prevent them from losing a ton of csr on their losses (meaning when they lose, the winners get close to nothing from it as well...even if they just beat a team holding a high onyx or champ...if that team loses they lose a ton)

2- it allows the best player to get an insane amount of kills in match from skewing the matchmaking and getting them easier matches....boosting their gains...being the best player on their team where they're not only better than everyone on their team, but also everyone on the other team as well...where that other team will have far less skilled players. I've even first hand witnessed a team feeding all the kills to 1 player. So sometimes it isn't even that 1 is way better....it's an organized strategy to work the system...using any means possible.

Does that high onyx player deserve to gain a boost because his high amount of kills over some daimonds shows he's "worthy" of the increase?

I hate to break it to you, but the matchmaking isn't creating those weird teams with 1 low tier player and 3 high tier accidentally. No. That's actually an actual team created on purpose. Sometimes its a different mix, but the idea behind it remains the same.
Regarding your first point, yeah if you stack a team basically guaranteeing a win you don't deserve to rank up. Just like if you bet on the favorite horse you aren't going to get much in return. If you go in solo queuing you will likely lose more games but your potential CSR loss decreases while your potential CSR gain increases (the exact opposite of going in with a to4). I am assuming the player's performance is staying relatively the same (and yes, TS2 factors in teammates when predicting your KPM).

The team of 3 good players and one atrocious player is because the team of three players are better than the opposing team, so the matchmaker is trying to balance out the teams so that the winner has to prove they are better through gameplay, not by picking teammates in the pregame lobby.

Also, just because you "feel" like you should've earned more than 1 CSR or lost less than 10 doesn't mean you deserved it. As far as I know, TS2 is not sentient and does not care about feelings.

The system still makes unwinnable games and these usually result in minimal CSR movement for both sides.
You're clearly missing the entire point. By a lot too. I'll emphasize using caps.

1 team has 3 good player, 1 SEEMINGLY bad player. This is a PRE MADE team. That 1 "atrocious" player, is actually JUST AS GOOD if not BETTER than the other 3 players. This is called an ALT account. Purposely placed at a low tier, so that when that team of 4 searches...it lowers their overall team strength DESPITE that player being JUST AS GOOD if not BETTER in reality. That acct is not intended to get lots of kills or rank up. This is being Purposely done.

Matchmaking then searches for a team accordingly. Giving them....or so the system expects to be...a fair match...where there is a COMPENSATION of that lower placed player...on the opposing team...

Following so far?

The team with the "atrocious " player will be well rewarded...because the system will not expect an absolute steam roll...because of that "atrocious" player....the other team is expected to have a fair chance BECAUSE of that "atrocious" player. If the team without the "atrocious" player wins...they don't get much...and in some cases...hardly ANYTHING depending on how low that "atrocious " player is. If they lose? Expect a BIG loss of progress.

I hope that helps clarify what you may have not understood in my OP. You surely must know what alt accts, smurfs, etc are...but for some odd reason are not acknowledging any of that in the discussion at hand.
Pheinted wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Look, if you get 1 CSR per game it means either the odds of winning are heavily in your favor or you didn't do anything worthy of increasing your rank.

I hate to break it to you but the population cannot support making fair games against stacked teams. If you want a break from +1/-10 games then I suggest you solo queue.
You're failing to realize that people are purposely stacking their team certain ways to

1 - prevent them from losing a ton of csr on their losses (meaning when they lose, the winners get close to nothing from it as well...even if they just beat a team holding a high onyx or champ...if that team loses they lose a ton)

2- it allows the best player to get an insane amount of kills in match from skewing the matchmaking and getting them easier matches....boosting their gains...being the best player on their team where they're not only better than everyone on their team, but also everyone on the other team as well...where that other team will have far less skilled players. I've even first hand witnessed a team feeding all the kills to 1 player. So sometimes it isn't even that 1 is way better....it's an organized strategy to work the system...using any means possible.

Does that high onyx player deserve to gain a boost because his high amount of kills over some daimonds shows he's "worthy" of the increase?

I hate to break it to you, but the matchmaking isn't creating those weird teams with 1 low tier player and 3 high tier accidentally. No. That's actually an actual team created on purpose. Sometimes its a different mix, but the idea behind it remains the same.
Regarding your first point, yeah if you stack a team basically guaranteeing a win you don't deserve to rank up. Just like if you bet on the favorite horse you aren't going to get much in return. If you go in solo queuing you will likely lose more games but your potential CSR loss decreases while your potential CSR gain increases (the exact opposite of going in with a to4). I am assuming the player's performance is staying relatively the same (and yes, TS2 factors in teammates when predicting your KPM).

The team of 3 good players and one atrocious player is because the team of three players are better than the opposing team, so the matchmaker is trying to balance out the teams so that the winner has to prove they are better through gameplay, not by picking teammates in the pregame lobby.

Also, just because you "feel" like you should've earned more than 1 CSR or lost less than 10 doesn't mean you deserved it. As far as I know, TS2 is not sentient and does not care about feelings.

The system still makes unwinnable games and these usually result in minimal CSR movement for both sides.
You're clearly missing the entire point. By a lot too. I'll emphasize using caps.

1 team has 3 good player, 1 SEEMINGLY bad player. This is a PRE MADE team. That 1 "atrocious" player, is actually JUST AS GOOD if not BETTER than the other 3 players. This is called an ALT account. Purposely placed at a low tier, so that when that team of 4 searches...it lowers their overall team strength DESPITE that player being JUST AS GOOD if not BETTER in reality. That acct is not intended to get lots of kills or rank up. This is being Purposely done.

Matchmaking then searches for a team accordingly. Giving them....or so the system expects to be...a fair match...where there is a COMPENSATION of that lower placed player...on the opposing team...

Following so far?

The team with the "atrocious " player will be well rewarded...because the system will not expect an absolute steam roll...because of that "atrocious" player....the other team is expected to have a fair chance BECAUSE of that "atrocious" player. If the team without the "atrocious" player wins...they don't get much...and in some cases...hardly ANYTHING depending on how low that "atrocious " player is. If they lose? Expect a BIG loss of progress.

I hope that helps clarify what you may have not understood in my OP.
Ok, you didn't specify the "low tier" player in your original post was part of the to4 and is purposely manipulating the system. No need for the condescension. To be fair, the scenario that I described (to3 nerfed with a random 4th) is fairly common as well.

Anyways, in order to keep a low rank they have to intentionally not get kills and only do damage. Plus they benefit from that player probably knowing how to not feed. It is a scenario I've considered and even asked in the official MM thread but I was never answered, possibly because it is a credible loophole of the current matchmaking algorithm.

Luckily I haven't seen it done too often... I'm sorry that you have.
qlimm wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Look, if you get 1 CSR per game it means either the odds of winning are heavily in your favor or you didn't do anything worthy of increasing your rank.

I hate to break it to you but the population cannot support making fair games against stacked teams. If you want a break from +1/-10 games then I suggest you solo queue.
You're failing to realize that people are purposely stacking their team certain ways to

1 - prevent them from losing a ton of csr on their losses (meaning when they lose, the winners get close to nothing from it as well...even if they just beat a team holding a high onyx or champ...if that team loses they lose a ton)

2- it allows the best player to get an insane amount of kills in match from skewing the matchmaking and getting them easier matches....boosting their gains...being the best player on their team where they're not only better than everyone on their team, but also everyone on the other team as well...where that other team will have far less skilled players. I've even first hand witnessed a team feeding all the kills to 1 player. So sometimes it isn't even that 1 is way better....it's an organized strategy to work the system...using any means possible.

Does that high onyx player deserve to gain a boost because his high amount of kills over some daimonds shows he's "worthy" of the increase?

I hate to break it to you, but the matchmaking isn't creating those weird teams with 1 low tier player and 3 high tier accidentally. No. That's actually an actual team created on purpose. Sometimes its a different mix, but the idea behind it remains the same.
Regarding your first point, yeah if you stack a team basically guaranteeing a win you don't deserve to rank up. Just like if you bet on the favorite horse you aren't going to get much in return. If you go in solo queuing you will likely lose more games but your potential CSR loss decreases while your potential CSR gain increases (the exact opposite of going in with a to4). I am assuming the player's performance is staying relatively the same (and yes, TS2 factors in teammates when predicting your KPM).

The team of 3 good players and one atrocious player is because the team of three players are better than the opposing team, so the matchmaker is trying to balance out the teams so that the winner has to prove they are better through gameplay, not by picking teammates in the pregame lobby.

Also, just because you "feel" like you should've earned more than 1 CSR or lost less than 10 doesn't mean you deserved it. As far as I know, TS2 is not sentient and does not care about feelings.

The system still makes unwinnable games and these usually result in minimal CSR movement for both sides.
You're clearly missing the entire point. By a lot too. I'll emphasize using caps.

1 team has 3 good player, 1 SEEMINGLY bad player. This is a PRE MADE team. That 1 "atrocious" player, is actually JUST AS GOOD if not BETTER than the other 3 players. This is called an ALT account. Purposely placed at a low tier, so that when that team of 4 searches...it lowers their overall team strength DESPITE that player being JUST AS GOOD if not BETTER in reality. That acct is not intended to get lots of kills or rank up. This is being Purposely done.

Matchmaking then searches for a team accordingly. Giving them....or so the system expects to be...a fair match...where there is a COMPENSATION of that lower placed player...on the opposing team...

Following so far?

The team with the "atrocious " player will be well rewarded...because the system will not expect an absolute steam roll...because of that "atrocious" player....the other team is expected to have a fair chance BECAUSE of that "atrocious" player. If the team without the "atrocious" player wins...they don't get much...and in some cases...hardly ANYTHING depending on how low that "atrocious " player is. If they lose? Expect a BIG loss of progress.

I hope that helps clarify what you may have not understood in my OP.
Ok, you didn't specify the "low tier" player in your original post was part of the to4 and is purposely manipulating the system. No need for the condescension. To be fair, the scenario that I described (to3 nerfed with a random 4th) is fairly common as well.

Anyways, in order to keep a low rank they have to intentionally not get kills and only do damage. Plus they benefit from that player probably knowing how to not feed. It is a scenario I've considered and even asked in the official MM thread but I was never answered, possibly because it is a credible loophole of the current matchmaking algorithm.

Luckily I haven't seen it done too often... I'm sorry that you have.
Read through this thread. You'll realize just how common it is. Not saying everyone does it of course....but it happens much more often than it doesn't. Some nights are unplayable for people because of this. Some down right quit the game altogether.

Sorry if it came off condescending...but it just looked like you deliberately chose to ignore that criteria in your response to me. I felt the need to over exaggerate the points so they won't be ignored at all. My apologies. Kind of a -Yoink- move on my part. Fully acknowledge that I did that.

As far as the official thread and getting an official response regarding a loophole, you're absolutely correct. They wouldn't answer that...and if they did, it wouldn't be straight forward...nor even an answer at that point.
Pheinted wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Look, if you get 1 CSR per game it means either the odds of winning are heavily in your favor or you didn't do anything worthy of increasing your rank.

I hate to break it to you but the population cannot support making fair games against stacked teams. If you want a break from +1/-10 games then I suggest you solo queue.
You're failing to realize that people are purposely stacking their team certain ways to

1 - prevent them from losing a ton of csr on their losses (meaning when they lose, the winners get close to nothing from it as well...even if they just beat a team holding a high onyx or champ...if that team loses they lose a ton)

2- it allows the best player to get an insane amount of kills in match from skewing the matchmaking and getting them easier matches....boosting their gains...being the best player on their team where they're not only better than everyone on their team, but also everyone on the other team as well...where that other team will have far less skilled players. I've even first hand witnessed a team feeding all the kills to 1 player. So sometimes it isn't even that 1 is way better....it's an organized strategy to work the system...using any means possible.

Does that high onyx player deserve to gain a boost because his high amount of kills over some daimonds shows he's "worthy" of the increase?

I hate to break it to you, but the matchmaking isn't creating those weird teams with 1 low tier player and 3 high tier accidentally. No. That's actually an actual team created on purpose. Sometimes its a different mix, but the idea behind it remains the same.
Regarding your first point, yeah if you stack a team basically guaranteeing a win you don't deserve to rank up. Just like if you bet on the favorite horse you aren't going to get much in return. If you go in solo queuing you will likely lose more games but your potential CSR loss decreases while your potential CSR gain increases (the exact opposite of going in with a to4). I am assuming the player's performance is staying relatively the same (and yes, TS2 factors in teammates when predicting your KPM).

The team of 3 good players and one atrocious player is because the team of three players are better than the opposing team, so the matchmaker is trying to balance out the teams so that the winner has to prove they are better through gameplay, not by picking teammates in the pregame lobby.

Also, just because you "feel" like you should've earned more than 1 CSR or lost less than 10 doesn't mean you deserved it. As far as I know, TS2 is not sentient and does not care about feelings.

The system still makes unwinnable games and these usually result in minimal CSR movement for both sides.
You're clearly missing the entire point. By a lot too. I'll emphasize using caps.

1 team has 3 good player, 1 SEEMINGLY bad player. This is a PRE MADE team. That 1 "atrocious" player, is actually JUST AS GOOD if not BETTER than the other 3 players. This is called an ALT account. Purposely placed at a low tier, so that when that team of 4 searches...it lowers their overall team strength DESPITE that player being JUST AS GOOD if not BETTER in reality. That acct is not intended to get lots of kills or rank up. This is being Purposely done.

Matchmaking then searches for a team accordingly. Giving them....or so the system expects to be...a fair match...where there is a COMPENSATION of that lower placed player...on the opposing team...

Following so far?

The team with the "atrocious " player will be well rewarded...because the system will not expect an absolute steam roll...because of that "atrocious" player....the other team is expected to have a fair chance BECAUSE of that "atrocious" player. If the team without the "atrocious" player wins...they don't get much...and in some cases...hardly ANYTHING depending on how low that "atrocious " player is. If they lose? Expect a BIG loss of progress.

I hope that helps clarify what you may have not understood in my OP. You surely must know what alt accts, smurfs, etc are...but for some odd reason are not acknowledging any of that in the discussion at hand.
If they do that, all players in that party will get lengthy bans. Just take a look at the ban thread for all the cheaters that get multiple month long bans and beg for it to be reversed. 343 has definitely addressed it. Not saying that it gets caught 100% of the time but you can always submit a support ticket and they will look into a player if the system didn’t automatically ban them.

You can share some examples of games you’ve seen this happen so we can take a look.
qlimm wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Look, if you get 1 CSR per game it means either the odds of winning are heavily in your favor or you didn't do anything worthy of increasing your rank.

I hate to break it to you but the population cannot support making fair games against stacked teams. If you want a break from +1/-10 games then I suggest you solo queue.
You're failing to realize that people are purposely stacking their team certain ways to

1 - prevent them from losing a ton of csr on their losses (meaning when they lose, the winners get close to nothing from it as well...even if they just beat a team holding a high onyx or champ...if that team loses they lose a ton)

2- it allows the best player to get an insane amount of kills in match from skewing the matchmaking and getting them easier matches....boosting their gains...being the best player on their team where they're not only better than everyone on their team, but also everyone on the other team as well...where that other team will have far less skilled players. I've even first hand witnessed a team feeding all the kills to 1 player. So sometimes it isn't even that 1 is way better....it's an organized strategy to work the system...using any means possible.

Does that high onyx player deserve to gain a boost because his high amount of kills over some daimonds shows he's "worthy" of the increase?

I hate to break it to you, but the matchmaking isn't creating those weird teams with 1 low tier player and 3 high tier accidentally. No. That's actually an actual team created on purpose. Sometimes its a different mix, but the idea behind it remains the same.
Regarding your first point, yeah if you stack a team basically guaranteeing a win you don't deserve to rank up. Just like if you bet on the favorite horse you aren't going to get much in return. If you go in solo queuing you will likely lose more games but your potential CSR loss decreases while your potential CSR gain increases (the exact opposite of going in with a to4). I am assuming the player's performance is staying relatively the same (and yes, TS2 factors in teammates when predicting your KPM).

The team of 3 good players and one atrocious player is because the team of three players are better than the opposing team, so the matchmaker is trying to balance out the teams so that the winner has to prove they are better through gameplay, not by picking teammates in the pregame lobby.

Also, just because you "feel" like you should've earned more than 1 CSR or lost less than 10 doesn't mean you deserved it. As far as I know, TS2 is not sentient and does not care about feelings.

The system still makes unwinnable games and these usually result in minimal CSR movement for both sides.
You're clearly missing the entire point. By a lot too. I'll emphasize using caps.

1 team has 3 good player, 1 SEEMINGLY bad player. This is a PRE MADE team. That 1 "atrocious" player, is actually JUST AS GOOD if not BETTER than the other 3 players. This is called an ALT account. Purposely placed at a low tier, so that when that team of 4 searches...it lowers their overall team strength DESPITE that player being JUST AS GOOD if not BETTER in reality. That acct is not intended to get lots of kills or rank up. This is being Purposely done.

Matchmaking then searches for a team accordingly. Giving them....or so the system expects to be...a fair match...where there is a COMPENSATION of that lower placed player...on the opposing team...

Following so far?

The team with the "atrocious " player will be well rewarded...because the system will not expect an absolute steam roll...because of that "atrocious" player....the other team is expected to have a fair chance BECAUSE of that "atrocious" player. If the team without the "atrocious" player wins...they don't get much...and in some cases...hardly ANYTHING depending on how low that "atrocious " player is. If they lose? Expect a BIG loss of progress.

I hope that helps clarify what you may have not understood in my OP.
Ok, you didn't specify the "low tier" player in your original post was part of the to4 and is purposely manipulating the system. No need for the condescension. To be fair, the scenario that I described (to3 nerfed with a random 4th) is fairly common as well.

Anyways, in order to keep a low rank they have to intentionally not get kills and only do damage. Plus they benefit from that player probably knowing how to not feed. It is a scenario I've considered and even asked in the official MM thread but I was never answered, possibly because it is a credible loophole of the current matchmaking algorithm.

Luckily I haven't seen it done too often... I'm sorry that you have.
We don’t see it too often because it’s considered cheating and the offending players (deranker and all in their party) get long bans for manipulating matchmaking. The system catches these derankers pretty fast.
IGRS wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Look, if you get 1 CSR per game it means either the odds of winning are heavily in your favor or you didn't do anything worthy of increasing your rank.

I hate to break it to you but the population cannot support making fair games against stacked teams. If you want a break from +1/-10 games then I suggest you solo queue.
You're failing to realize that people are purposely stacking their team certain ways to

1 - prevent them from losing a ton of csr on their losses (meaning when they lose, the winners get close to nothing from it as well...even if they just beat a team holding a high onyx or champ...if that team loses they lose a ton)

2- it allows the best player to get an insane amount of kills in match from skewing the matchmaking and getting them easier matches....boosting their gains...being the best player on their team where they're not only better than everyone on their team, but also everyone on the other team as well...where that other team will have far less skilled players. I've even first hand witnessed a team feeding all the kills to 1 player. So sometimes it isn't even that 1 is way better....it's an organized strategy to work the system...using any means possible.

Does that high onyx player deserve to gain a boost because his high amount of kills over some daimonds shows he's "worthy" of the increase?

I hate to break it to you, but the matchmaking isn't creating those weird teams with 1 low tier player and 3 high tier accidentally. No. That's actually an actual team created on purpose. Sometimes its a different mix, but the idea behind it remains the same.
Regarding your first point, yeah if you stack a team basically guaranteeing a win you don't deserve to rank up. Just like if you bet on the favorite horse you aren't going to get much in return. If you go in solo queuing you will likely lose more games but your potential CSR loss decreases while your potential CSR gain increases (the exact opposite of going in with a to4). I am assuming the player's performance is staying relatively the same (and yes, TS2 factors in teammates when predicting your KPM).

The team of 3 good players and one atrocious player is because the team of three players are better than the opposing team, so the matchmaker is trying to balance out the teams so that the winner has to prove they are better through gameplay, not by picking teammates in the pregame lobby.

Also, just because you "feel" like you should've earned more than 1 CSR or lost less than 10 doesn't mean you deserved it. As far as I know, TS2 is not sentient and does not care about feelings.

The system still makes unwinnable games and these usually result in minimal CSR movement for both sides.
You're clearly missing the entire point. By a lot too. I'll emphasize using caps.

1 team has 3 good player, 1 SEEMINGLY bad player. This is a PRE MADE team. That 1 "atrocious" player, is actually JUST AS GOOD if not BETTER than the other 3 players. This is called an ALT account. Purposely placed at a low tier, so that when that team of 4 searches...it lowers their overall team strength DESPITE that player being JUST AS GOOD if not BETTER in reality. That acct is not intended to get lots of kills or rank up. This is being Purposely done.

Matchmaking then searches for a team accordingly. Giving them....or so the system expects to be...a fair match...where there is a COMPENSATION of that lower placed player...on the opposing team...

Following so far?

The team with the "atrocious " player will be well rewarded...because the system will not expect an absolute steam roll...because of that "atrocious" player....the other team is expected to have a fair chance BECAUSE of that "atrocious" player. If the team without the "atrocious" player wins...they don't get much...and in some cases...hardly ANYTHING depending on how low that "atrocious " player is. If they lose? Expect a BIG loss of progress.

I hope that helps clarify what you may have not understood in my OP.
Ok, you didn't specify the "low tier" player in your original post was part of the to4 and is purposely manipulating the system. No need for the condescension. To be fair, the scenario that I described (to3 nerfed with a random 4th) is fairly common as well.

Anyways, in order to keep a low rank they have to intentionally not get kills and only do damage. Plus they benefit from that player probably knowing how to not feed. It is a scenario I've considered and even asked in the official MM thread but I was never answered, possibly because it is a credible loophole of the current matchmaking algorithm.

Luckily I haven't seen it done too often... I'm sorry that you have.
We don’t see it too often because it’s considered cheating and the offending players (deranker and all in their party) get long bans for manipulating matchmaking. The system catches these derankers pretty fast.
It still happens. It can't be fully prevented, and not everyone submits a report right after it's happened. We just keep playing. I'll keep this in mind next time though. You mean submit it here somewhere on waypoint support? Not the Xbox report function right?

The system only catches them if we the players submit reports though right? And then..what you mean by the system catches them fast...do you mean the systems calculations of their match history validates our submitted report to the support section? I'm assuming that's what you mean.

But it totally is something players still deal with.
Pheinted wrote:
IGRS wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Look, if you get 1 CSR per game it means either the odds of winning are heavily in your favor or you didn't do anything worthy of increasing your rank.

I hate to break it to you but the population cannot support making fair games against stacked teams. If you want a break from +1/-10 games then I suggest you solo queue.
You're failing to realize that people are purposely stacking their team certain ways to

1 - prevent them from losing a ton of csr on their losses (meaning when they lose, the winners get close to nothing from it as well...even if they just beat a team holding a high onyx or champ...if that team loses they lose a ton)

2- it allows the best player to get an insane amount of kills in match from skewing the matchmaking and getting them easier matches....boosting their gains...being the best player on their team where they're not only better than everyone on their team, but also everyone on the other team as well...where that other team will have far less skilled players. I've even first hand witnessed a team feeding all the kills to 1 player. So sometimes it isn't even that 1 is way better....it's an organized strategy to work the system...using any means possible.

Does that high onyx player deserve to gain a boost because his high amount of kills over some daimonds shows he's "worthy" of the increase?

I hate to break it to you, but the matchmaking isn't creating those weird teams with 1 low tier player and 3 high tier accidentally. No. That's actually an actual team created on purpose. Sometimes its a different mix, but the idea behind it remains the same.
Regarding your first point, yeah if you stack a team basically guaranteeing a win you don't deserve to rank up. Just like if you bet on the favorite horse you aren't going to get much in return. If you go in solo queuing you will likely lose more games but your potential CSR loss decreases while your potential CSR gain increases (the exact opposite of going in with a to4). I am assuming the player's performance is staying relatively the same (and yes, TS2 factors in teammates when predicting your KPM).

The team of 3 good players and one atrocious player is because the team of three players are better than the opposing team, so the matchmaker is trying to balance out the teams so that the winner has to prove they are better through gameplay, not by picking teammates in the pregame lobby.

Also, just because you "feel" like you should've earned more than 1 CSR or lost less than 10 doesn't mean you deserved it. As far as I know, TS2 is not sentient and does not care about feelings.

The system still makes unwinnable games and these usually result in minimal CSR movement for both sides.
You're clearly missing the entire point. By a lot too. I'll emphasize using caps.

1 team has 3 good player, 1 SEEMINGLY bad player. This is a PRE MADE team. That 1 "atrocious" player, is actually JUST AS GOOD if not BETTER than the other 3 players. This is called an ALT account. Purposely placed at a low tier, so that when that team of 4 searches...it lowers their overall team strength DESPITE that player being JUST AS GOOD if not BETTER in reality. That acct is not intended to get lots of kills or rank up. This is being Purposely done.

Matchmaking then searches for a team accordingly. Giving them....or so the system expects to be...a fair match...where there is a COMPENSATION of that lower placed player...on the opposing team...

Following so far?

The team with the "atrocious " player will be well rewarded...because the system will not expect an absolute steam roll...because of that "atrocious" player....the other team is expected to have a fair chance BECAUSE of that "atrocious" player. If the team without the "atrocious" player wins...they don't get much...and in some cases...hardly ANYTHING depending on how low that "atrocious " player is. If they lose? Expect a BIG loss of progress.

I hope that helps clarify what you may have not understood in my OP.
Ok, you didn't specify the "low tier" player in your original post was part of the to4 and is purposely manipulating the system. No need for the condescension. To be fair, the scenario that I described (to3 nerfed with a random 4th) is fairly common as well.

Anyways, in order to keep a low rank they have to intentionally not get kills and only do damage. Plus they benefit from that player probably knowing how to not feed. It is a scenario I've considered and even asked in the official MM thread but I was never answered, possibly because it is a credible loophole of the current matchmaking algorithm.

Luckily I haven't seen it done too often... I'm sorry that you have.
We don’t see it too often because it’s considered cheating and the offending players (deranker and all in their party) get long bans for manipulating matchmaking. The system catches these derankers pretty fast.
It still happens. It can't be fully prevented, and not everyone submits a report right after it's happened. We just keep playing. I'll keep this in mind next time though. You mean submit it here somewhere on waypoint support? Not the Xbox report function right?

The system only catches them if we the players submit reports though right? And then..what you mean by the system catches them fast...do you mean the systems calculations of their match history validates our submitted report to the support section? I'm assuming that's what you mean.

But it totally is something players still deal with.
https://support.halowaypoint.com/

You can submit a ticket there

The system definitely flags them automatically, I’m not sure if an enforcement team member manually verifies it or the ban is done automatically but players reporting them isn’t required, it just might speed up the process. It can pretty easily see that a player normally plays like an onyx 1600 then suddenly plays like a Silver on their alt to benefit their friends.
IGRS wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
IGRS wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Look, if you get 1 CSR per game it means either the odds of winning are heavily in your favor or you didn't do anything worthy of increasing your rank.

I hate to break it to you but the population cannot support making fair games against stacked teams. If you want a break from +1/-10 games then I suggest you solo queue.
You're failing to realize that people are purposely stacking their team certain ways to

1 - prevent them from losing a ton of csr on their losses (meaning when they lose, the winners get close to nothing from it as well...even if they just beat a team holding a high onyx or champ...if that team loses they lose a ton)

2- it allows the best player to get an insane amount of kills in match from skewing the matchmaking and getting them easier matches....boosting their gains...being the best player on their team where they're not only better than everyone on their team, but also everyone on the other team as well...where that other team will have far less skilled players. I've even first hand witnessed a team feeding all the kills to 1 player. So sometimes it isn't even that 1 is way better....it's an organized strategy to work the system...using any means possible.

Does that high onyx player deserve to gain a boost because his high amount of kills over some daimonds shows he's "worthy" of the increase?

I hate to break it to you, but the matchmaking isn't creating those weird teams with 1 low tier player and 3 high tier accidentally. No. That's actually an actual team created on purpose. Sometimes its a different mix, but the idea behind it remains the same.
Regarding your first point, yeah if you stack a team basically guaranteeing a win you don't deserve to rank up. Just like if you bet on the favorite horse you aren't going to get much in return. If you go in solo queuing you will likely lose more games but your potential CSR loss decreases while your potential CSR gain increases (the exact opposite of going in with a to4). I am assuming the player's performance is staying relatively the same (and yes, TS2 factors in teammates when predicting your KPM).

The team of 3 good players and one atrocious player is because the team of three players are better than the opposing team, so the matchmaker is trying to balance out the teams so that the winner has to prove they are better through gameplay, not by picking teammates in the pregame lobby.

Also, just because you "feel" like you should've earned more than 1 CSR or lost less than 10 doesn't mean you deserved it. As far as I know, TS2 is not sentient and does not care about feelings.

The system still makes unwinnable games and these usually result in minimal CSR movement for both sides.
You're clearly missing the entire point. By a lot too. I'll emphasize using caps.

1 team has 3 good player, 1 SEEMINGLY bad player. This is a PRE MADE team. That 1 "atrocious" player, is actually JUST AS GOOD if not BETTER than the other 3 players. This is called an ALT account. Purposely placed at a low tier, so that when that team of 4 searches...it lowers their overall team strength DESPITE that player being JUST AS GOOD if not BETTER in reality. That acct is not intended to get lots of kills or rank up. This is being Purposely done.

Matchmaking then searches for a team accordingly. Giving them....or so the system expects to be...a fair match...where there is a COMPENSATION of that lower placed player...on the opposing team...

Following so far?

The team with the "atrocious " player will be well rewarded...because the system will not expect an absolute steam roll...because of that "atrocious" player....the other team is expected to have a fair chance BECAUSE of that "atrocious" player. If the team without the "atrocious" player wins...they don't get much...and in some cases...hardly ANYTHING depending on how low that "atrocious " player is. If they lose? Expect a BIG loss of progress.

I hope that helps clarify what you may have not understood in my OP.
Ok, you didn't specify the "low tier" player in your original post was part of the to4 and is purposely manipulating the system. No need for the condescension. To be fair, the scenario that I described (to3 nerfed with a random 4th) is fairly common as well.

Anyways, in order to keep a low rank they have to intentionally not get kills and only do damage. Plus they benefit from that player probably knowing how to not feed. It is a scenario I've considered and even asked in the official MM thread but I was never answered, possibly because it is a credible loophole of the current matchmaking algorithm.

Luckily I haven't seen it done too often... I'm sorry that you have.
We don’t see it too often because it’s considered cheating and the offending players (deranker and all in their party) get long bans for manipulating matchmaking. The system catches these derankers
https://support.halowaypoint.com/

You can submit a ticket there

The system definitely flags them automatically, I’m not sure if an enforcement team member manually verifies it or the ban is done automatically but players reporting them isn’t required, it just might speed up the process. It can pretty easily see that a player normally plays like an onyx 1600 then suddenly plays like a Silver on their alt to benefit their friends.
This last part doesn't make sense. It's 2 separate accounts. I don't believe the system can detect that it's 1 person using 2 accounts. The system would just see 2 different accounts. There would be no way it can just automatically catch this happening.

Getting something like an actual ip ban would have to come from being reported. Maybe multiple offenses or something real bad to warrant such a ban. The scenario we're talking about though, I don't believe the system just automatically flags the account. How could the system tell? It's again, 2 separate accounts...where the silver has no match history of good performance. It's just a dummy acct. The way the MM manipulators would get caught is actually by viewing the full team roster benefiting from the silver acct, and not the silver accts performance itself since...it's a silver account and kept silver for the purpose of boosting the other players. This again all needs a player to actually report what has happened. Unfortunately most of us just keep playing. I've never reported for that reason. I've reported stuff like dumb messages players have sent me full of insults, but not what we're speaking of. Next time I encounter this I actually will try and see if the effort does something.

I don't think it's as easy as you think it is...nor do I in anyway believe this kind of problem is being resolved automatically through the ranking system itself....

The only thing the ranking system can do, is fix an incorrect rank/mmr by someone jumping in performance...which...funny enough....is a boost up...in a perfect world it makes sense. The players actually better than that players current rank...but it also ends up being manipulated like what we're currently discussing.

To derank..I mean...you just play bad. If the sticks are moving and you're shooting....hitting stuff....you aren't going to be removed from the game. Nothings gonna happen.
Pheinted wrote:
IGRS wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
IGRS wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Look, if you get 1 CSR per game it means either the odds of winning are heavily in your favor or you didn't do anything worthy of increasing your rank.

I hate to break it to you but the population cannot support making fair games against stacked teams. If you want a break from +1/-10 games then I suggest you solo queue.
You're failing to realize that people are purposely stacking their team certain ways to

1 - prevent them from losing a ton of csr on their losses (meaning when they lose, the winners get close to nothing from it as well...even if they just beat a team holding a high onyx or champ...if that team loses they lose a ton)

2- it allows the best player to get an insane amount of kills in match from skewing the matchmaking and getting them easier matches....boosting their gains...being the best player on their team where they're not only better than everyone on their team, but also everyone on the other team as well...where that other team will have far less skilled players. I've even first hand witnessed a team feeding all the kills to 1 player. So sometimes it isn't even that 1 is way better....it's an organized strategy to work the system...using any means possible.

Does that high onyx player deserve to gain a boost because his high amount of kills over some daimonds shows he's "worthy" of the increase?

I hate to break it to you, but the matchmaking isn't creating those weird teams with 1 low tier player and 3 high tier accidentally. No. That's actually an actual team created on purpose. Sometimes its a different mix, but the idea behind it remains the same.
Regarding your first point, yeah if you stack a team basically guaranteeing a win you don't deserve to rank up. Just like if you bet on the favorite horse you aren't going to get much in return. If you go in solo queuing you will likely lose more games but your potential CSR loss decreases while your potential CSR gain increases (the exact opposite of going in with a to4). I am assuming the player's performance is staying relatively the same (and yes, TS2 factors in teammates when predicting your KPM).

The team of 3 good players and one atrocious player is because the team of three players are better than the opposing team, so the matchmaker is trying to balance out the teams so that the winner has to prove they are better through gameplay, not by picking teammates in the pregame lobby.

Also, just because you "feel" like you should've earned more than 1 CSR or lost less than 10 doesn't mean you deserved it. As far as I know, TS2 is not sentient and does not care about feelings.

The system still makes unwinnable games and these usually result in minimal CSR movement for both sides.
You're clearly missing the entire point. By a lot too. I'll emphasize using caps.

1 team has 3 good player, 1 SEEMINGLY bad player. This is a PRE MADE team. That 1 "atrocious" player, is actually JUST AS GOOD if not BETTER than the other 3 players. This is called an ALT account. Purposely placed at a low tier, so that when that team of 4 searches...it lowers their overall team strength DESPITE that player being JUST AS GOOD if not BETTER in reality. That acct is not intended to get lots of kills or rank up. This is being Purposely done.

Matchmaking then searches for a team accordingly. Giving them....or so the system expects to be...a fair match...where there is a COMPENSATION of that lower placed player...on the opposing team...

Following so far?

The team with the "atrocious " player will be well rewarded...because the system will not expect an absolute steam roll...because of that "atrocious" player....the other team is expected to have a fair chance BECAUSE of that "atrocious" player. If the team without the "atrocious" player wins...they don't get much...and in some cases...hardly ANYTHING depending on how low that "atrocious " player is. If they lose? Expect a BIG loss of progress.

I hope that helps clarify what you may have not understood in my OP.
Ok, you didn't specify the "low tier" player in your original post was part of the to4 and is purposely manipulating the system. No need for the condescension. To be fair, the scenario that I described (to3 nerfed with a random 4th) is fairly common as well.

Anyways, in order to keep a low rank they have to intentionally not get kills and only do damage. Plus they benefit from that player probably knowing how to not feed. It is a scenario I've considered and even asked in the official MM thread but I was never answered, possibly because it is a credible loophole of the current matchmaking algorithm.

Luckily I haven't seen it done too often... I'm sorry that you have.
We don’t see it too often because it’s considered cheating and the offending players (deranker and all in their party) get long bans for manipulating matchmaking. The system catches these derankers
https://support.halowaypoint.com/

You can submit a ticket there

The system definitely flags them automatically, I’m not sure if an enforcement team member manually verifies it or the ban is done automatically but players reporting them isn’t required, it just might speed up the process. It can pretty easily see that a player normally plays like an onyx 1600 then suddenly plays like a Silver on their alt to benefit their friends.
This last part doesn't make sense. It's 2 separate accounts. I don't believe the system can detect that it's 1 person using 2 accounts. The system would just see 2 different accounts. There would be no way it can just automatically catch this happening.

Getting something like an actual ip ban would have to come from being reported. Maybe multiple offenses or something real bad to warrant such a ban. The scenario we're talking about though, I don't believe the system just automatically flags the account. How could the system tell? It's again, 2 separate accounts...where the silver has no match history of good performance. It's just a dummy acct. The way the MM manipulators would get caught is actually by viewing the full team roster benefiting from the silver acct, and not the silver accts performance itself since...it's a silver account and kept silver for the purpose of boosting the other players. This again all needs a player to actually report what has happened. Unfortunately most of us just keep playing. I've never reported for that reason. I've reported stuff like dumb messages players have sent me full of insults, but not what we're speaking of. Next time I encounter this I actually will try and see if the effort does something.

I don't think it's as easy as you think it is...nor do I in anyway believe this kind of problem is being resolved automatically through the ranking system itself....

The only thing the ranking system can do, is fix an incorrect rank/mmr by someone jumping in performance...which...funny enough....is a boost up...in a perfect world it makes sense. The players actually better than that players current rank...but it also ends up being manipulated like what we're currently discussing.

To derank..I mean...you just play bad. If the sticks are moving and you're shooting....hitting stuff....you aren't going to be removed from the game. Nothings gonna happen.
The system does know. Again, take a look at the matchmaking feedback or ban threads for examples. There’s many ways they can track you.
IGRS wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
IGRS wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
IGRS wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Look, if you get 1 CSR per game it means either the odds of winning are heavily in your favor or you didn't do anything worthy of increasing your rank.

I hate to break it to you but the population cannot support making fair games against stacked teams. If you want a break from +1/-10 games then I suggest you solo queue.
You're failing to realize that people are purposely stacking their team certain ways to

1 - prevent them from losing a ton of csr on their losses (meaning when they lose, the winners get close to nothing from it as well...even if they just beat a team holding a high onyx or champ...if that team loses they lose a ton)

2- it allows the best player to get an insane amount of kills in match from skewing the matchmaking and getting them easier matches....boosting their gains...being the best player on their team where they're not only better than everyone on their team, but also everyone on the other team as well...where that other team will have far less skilled players. I've even first hand witnessed a team feeding all the kills to 1 player. So sometimes it isn't even that 1 is way better....it's an organized strategy to work the system...using any means possible.

Does that high onyx player deserve to gain a boost because his high amount of kills over some daimonds shows he's "worthy" of the increase?

I hate to break it to you, but the matchmaking isn't creating those weird teams with 1 low tier player and 3 high tier accidentally. No. That's actually an actual team created on purpose. Sometimes its a different mix, but the idea behind it remains the same.
Regarding your first point, yeah if you stack a team basically guaranteeing a win you don't deserve to rank up. Just like if you bet on the favorite horse you aren't going to get much in return. If you go in solo queuing you will likely lose more games but your potential CSR loss decreases while your potential CSR gain increases (the exact opposite of going in with a to4). I am assuming the player's performance is staying relatively the same (and yes, TS2 factors in teammates when predicting your KPM).

The team of 3 good players and one atrocious player is because the team of three players are better than the opposing team, so the matchmaker is trying to balance out the teams so that the winner has to prove they are better through gameplay, not by picking teammates in the pregame lobby.

Also, just because you "feel" like you should've earned more than 1 CSR or lost less than 10 doesn't mean you deserved it. As far as I know, TS2 is not sentient and does not care about feelings.

The system still makes unwinnable games and these usually result in minimal CSR movement for both sides.
You're clearly missing the entire point. By a lot too. I'll emphasize using caps.

1 team has 3 good player, 1 SEEMINGLY bad player. This is a PRE MADE team. That 1 "atrocious" player, is actually JUST AS GOOD if not BETTER than the other 3 players. This is called an ALT account. Purposely placed at a low tier, so that when that team of 4 searches...it lowers their overall team strength DESPITE that player being JUST AS GOOD if not BETTER in reality. That acct is not intended to get lots of kills or rank up. This is being Purposely done.

Matchmaking then searches for a team accordingly. Giving them....or so the system expects to be...a fair match...where there is a COMPENSATION of that lower placed player...on the opposing team...

Following so far?

The team with the "atrocious " player will be well rewarded...because the system will not expect an absolute steam roll...because of that "atrocious" player....the other team is expected to have a fair chance BECAUSE of that "atrocious" player. If the team without the "atrocious" player wins...they don't get much...and in some cases...hardly ANYTHING depending on how low that "atrocious " player is. If they lose? Expect a BIG loss of progress.

I hope that helps clarify what you may have not understood in my OP.
Ok, you didn't specify the "low tier" player in your original post was part of the to4 and is purposely manipulating the system. No need for the condescension. To be fair, the scenario that I described (to3 nerfed with a random 4th) is fairly common as well.

Anyways, in order to keep a low rank they have to intentionally not get kills and only do damage. Plus they benefit from that player probably knowing how to not feed. It is a scenario I've considered and even asked in the official MM thread but I was never answered, possibly because it is a credible loophole of the current matchmaking algorithm.

Luckily I haven't seen it done too often... I'm sorry that you have.
We don’t see it too often because it’s considered cheating and the offending players (deranker and all in their party) get long bans for manipulating matchmaking. The system catches these derankers
https://support.halowaypoint.com/

You can submit a ticket there

The system definitely flags them automatically, I’m not sure if an enforcement team member manually verifies it or the ban is done automatically but players reporting them isn’t required, it just might speed up the process. It can pretty easily see that a player normally plays like an onyx 1600 then suddenly plays like a Silver on their alt to benefit their friends.
This last part doesn't make sense. It's 2 separate accounts. I don't believe the system can detect that it's 1 person using 2 accounts. The system would just see 2 different accounts. There would be no way it can just automatically catch this happening.

Getting something like an actual ip ban would have to come from being reported. Maybe multiple offenses or something real bad to warrant such a ban. The scenario we're talking about though, I don't believe the system just automatically flags the account. How could the system tell? It's again, 2 separate accounts...where the silver has no match history of good performance. It's just a dummy acct. The way the MM manipulators would get caught is actually by viewing the full team roster benefiting from the silver acct, and not the silver accts performance itself since...it's a silver account and kept silver for the purpose of boosting the other players. This again all needs a player to actually report what has happened. Unfortunately most of us just keep playing. I've never reported for that reason. I've reported stuff like dumb messages players have sent me full of insults, but not what we're speaking of. Next time I encounter this I actually will try and see if the effort does something.

I don't think it's as easy as you think it is...nor do I in anyway believe this kind of problem is being resolved automatically through the ranking system itself....

The only thing the ranking system can do, is fix an incorrect rank/mmr by someone jumping in performance...which...funny enough....is a boost up...in a perfect world it makes sense. The players actually better than that players current rank...but it also ends up being manipulated like what we're currently discussing.

To derank..I mean...you just play bad. If the sticks are moving and you're shooting....hitting stuff....you aren't going to be removed from the game. Nothings gonna happen.
The system does know. Again, take a look at the matchmaking feedback or ban threads for examples. There’s many ways they can track you.
Can you send me a link with an example?
Pheinted wrote:
IGRS wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
IGRS wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
IGRS wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Look, if you get 1 CSR per game it means either the odds of winning are heavily in your favor or you didn't do anything worthy of increasing your rank.

I hate to break it to you but the population cannot support making fair games against stacked teams. If you want a break from +1/-10 games then I suggest you solo queue.
You're failing to realize that people are purposely stacking their team certain ways to

1 - prevent them from losing a ton of csr on their losses (meaning when they lose, the winners get close to nothing from it as well...even if they just beat a team holding a high onyx or champ...if that team loses they lose a ton)

2- it allows the best player to get an insane amount of kills in match from skewing the matchmaking and getting them easier matches....boosting their gains...being the best player on their team where they're not only better than everyone on their team, but also everyone on the other team as well...where that other team will have far less skilled players. I've even first hand witnessed a team feeding all the kills to 1 player. So sometimes it isn't even that 1 is way better....it's an organized strategy to work the system...using any means possible.

Does that high onyx player deserve to gain a boost because his high amount of kills over some daimonds shows he's "worthy" of the increase?

I hate to break it to you, but the matchmaking isn't creating those weird teams with 1 low tier player and 3 high tier accidentally. No. That's actually an actual team created on purpose. Sometimes its a different mix, but the idea behind it remains the same.
Regarding your first point, yeah if you stack a team basically guaranteeing a win you don't deserve to rank up. Just like if you bet on the favorite horse you aren't going to get much in return. If you go in solo queuing you will likely lose more games but your potential CSR loss decreases while your potential CSR gain increases (the exact opposite of going in with a to4). I am assuming the player's performance is staying relatively the same (and yes, TS2 factors in teammates when predicting your KPM).

The team of 3 good players and one atrocious player is because the team of three players are better than the opposing team, so the matchmaker is trying to balance out the teams so that the winner has to prove they are better through gameplay, not by picking teammates in the pregame lobby.

Also, just because you "feel" like you should've earned more than 1 CSR or lost less than 10 doesn't mean you deserved it. As far as I know, TS2 is not sentient and does not care about feelings.

The system still makes unwinnable games and these usually result in minimal CSR movement for both sides.
You're clearly missing the entire point. By a lot too. I'll emphasize using caps.

1 team has 3 good player, 1 SEEMINGLY bad player. This is a PRE MADE team. That 1 "atrocious" player, is actually JUST AS GOOD if not BETTER than the other 3 players. This is called an ALT account. Purposely placed at a low tier, so that when that team of 4 searches...it lowers their overall team strength DESPITE that player being JUST AS GOOD if not BETTER in reality. That acct is not intended to get lots of kills or rank up. This is being Purposely done.

Matchmaking then searches for a team accordingly. Giving them....or so the system expects to be...a fair match...where there is a COMPENSATION of that lower placed player...on the opposing team...

Following so far?

The team with the "atrocious " player will be well rewarded...because the system will not expect an absolute steam roll...because of that "atrocious" player....the other team is expected to have a fair chance BECAUSE of that "atrocious" player. If the team without the "atrocious" player wins...they don't get much...and in some cases...hardly ANYTHING depending on how low that "atrocious " player is. If they lose? Expect a BIG loss of progress.

I hope that helps clarify what you may have not understood in my OP.
Ok, you didn't specify the "low tier" player in your original post was part of the to4 and is purposely manipulating the system. No need for the condescension. To be fair, the scenario that I described (to3 nerfed with a random 4th) is fairly common as well.

Anyways, in order to keep a low rank they have to intentionally not get kills and only do damage. Plus they benefit from that player probably knowing how to not feed. It is a scenario I've considered and even asked in the official MM thread but I was never answered, possibly because it is a credible loophole of the current matchmaking algorithm.

Luckily I haven't seen it done too often... I'm sorry that you have.
We don’t see it too often because it’s considered cheating and the offending players (deranker and all in their party) get long bans for manipulating matchmaking. The system catches these derankers
https://support.halowaypoint.com/

You can submit a ticket there

The system definitely flags them automatically, I’m not sure if an enforcement team member manually verifies it or the ban is done automatically but players reporting them isn’t required, it just might speed up the process. It can pretty easily see that a player normally plays like an onyx 1600 then suddenly plays like a Silver on their alt to benefit their friends.
reported. Maybe multiple offenses or something real bad to warrant such a ban. The scenario we're talking about though, I don't believe the system just automatically flags the account. How could the system tell? It's again, 2 separate accounts...where the silver has no match history of good performance. It's just a dummy acct. The way the MM manipulators would get caught is actually by viewing the full team roster benefiting from the silver acct, and not the silver accts performance itself since...it's a silver account and kept silver for the purpose of boosting the other players. This again all needs a player to actually report what has happened. Unfortunately most of us just keep playing. I've never reported for that reason. I've reported stuff like dumb messages players have sent me full of insults, but not what we're speaking of. Next time I encounter this I actually will try and see if the effort does something.

I don't think it's as easy as you think it is...nor do I in anyway believe this kind of problem is being resolved automatically through the ranking system itself....

The only thing the ranking system can do, is fix an incorrect rank/mmr by someone jumping in performance...which...funny enough....is a boost up...in a perfect world it makes sense. The players actually better than that players current rank...but it also ends up being manipulated like what we're currently discussing.

To derank..I mean...you just play bad. If the sticks are moving and you're shooting....hitting stuff....you aren't going to be removed from the game. Nothings gonna happen.
The system does know. Again, take a look at the matchmaking feedback or ban threads for examples. There’s many ways they can track you.
Can you send me a link with an example?
I’ll try to locate and share, there are a ton of pages to go through. Can you share link(s) to games where you saw this happen?

Finally, I guess it’s theoretically possible if someone made an alt and solely played in that manner without ever showing their true skill to the system (deal damage, avoid feeding, not get kills) to not get caught automatically, but reporting it and having an enforcement team member take a look would make what they’re doing obvious.
IGRS wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
IGRS wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
IGRS wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
IGRS wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Look, if you get 1 CSR per game it means either the odds of winning are heavily in your favor or you didn't do anything worthy of increasing your rank.

I hate to break it to you but the population cannot support making fair games against stacked teams. If you want a break from +1/-10 games then I suggest you solo queue.
You're failing to realize that people are purposely stacking their team certain ways to

1 - prevent them from losing a ton of csr on their losses (meaning when they lose, the winners get close to nothing from it as well...even if they just beat a team holding a high onyx or champ...if that team loses they lose a ton)

2- it allows the best player to get an insane amount of kills in match from skewing the matchmaking and getting them easier matches....boosting their gains...being the best player on their team where they're not only better than everyone on their team, but also everyone on the other team as well...where that other team will have far less skilled players. I've even first hand witnessed a team feeding all the kills to 1 player. So sometimes it isn't even that 1 is way better....it's an organized strategy to work the system...using any means possible.

Does that high onyx player deserve to gain a boost because his high amount of kills over some daimonds shows he's "worthy" of the increase?

I hate to break it to you, but the matchmaking isn't creating those weird teams with 1 low tier player and 3 high tier accidentally. No. That's actually an actual team created on purpose. Sometimes its a different mix, but the idea behind it remains the same.
Regarding your first point, yeah if you stack a team basically guaranteeing a win you don't deserve to rank up. Just like if you bet on the favorite horse you aren't going to get much in return. If you go in solo queuing you will likely lose more games but your potential CSR loss decreases while your potential CSR gain increases (the exact opposite of going in with a to4). I am assuming the player's performance is staying relatively the same (and yes, TS2 factors in teammates when predicting your KPM).

The team of 3 good players and one atrocious player is because the team of three players are better than the opposing team, so the matchmaker is trying to balance out the teams so that the winner has to prove they are better through gameplay, not by picking teammates in the pregame lobby.

Also, just because you "feel" like you should've earned more than 1 CSR or lost less than 10 doesn't mean you deserved it. As far as I know, TS2 is not sentient and does not care about feelings.

The system still makes unwinnable games and these usually result in minimal CSR movement for both sides.
You're clearly missing the entire point. By a lot too. I'll emphasize using caps.

1 team has 3 good player, 1 SEEMINGLY bad player. This is a PRE MADE team. That 1 "atrocious" player, is actually JUST AS GOOD if not BETTER than the other 3 players. This is called an ALT account. Purposely placed at a low tier, so that when that team of 4 searches...it lowers their overall team strength DESPITE that player being JUST AS GOOD if not BETTER in reality. That acct is not intended to get lots of kills or rank up. This is being Purposely done.

Matchmaking then searches for a team accordingly. Giving them....or so the system expects to be...a fair match...where there is a COMPENSATION of that lower placed player...on the opposing team...

Following so far?

The team with the "atrocious " player will be well rewarded...because the system will not expect an absolute steam roll...because of that "atrocious" player....the other team is expected to have a fair chance BECAUSE of that "atrocious" player. If the team without the "atrocious" player wins...they don't get much...and in some cases...hardly ANYTHING depending on how low that "atrocious " player is. If they lose? Expect a BIG loss of progress.

I hope that helps clarify what you may have not understood in my OP.
Ok, you didn't specify the "low tier" player in your original post was part of the to4 and is purposely manipulating the system. No need for the condescension. To be fair, the scenario that I described (to3 nerfed with a random 4th) is fairly common as well.

Anyways, in order to keep a low rank they have to intentionally not get kills and only do damage. Plus they benefit from that player probably knowing how to not feed. It is a scenario I've considered and even asked in the official MM thread but I was never answered, possibly because it is a credible loophole of the current matchmaking algorithm.

Luckily I haven't seen it done too often... I'm sorry that you have.
We don’t see it too often because it’s considered cheating and the offending players (deranker and all in their party) get long bans for manipulating matchmaking. The system catches these derankers
https://support.halowaypoint.com/

You can submit a ticket there

The system definitely flags them automatically, I’m not sure if an enforcement team member manually verifies it or the ban is done automatically but players reporting them isn’t required, it just might speed up the process. It can pretty easily see that a player normally plays like an onyx 1600 then suddenly plays like a Silver on their alt to benefit their friends.
reported. Maybe multiple offenses or something real bad to warrant such a ban. The scenario we're talking about though, I don't believe the system just automatically flags the account. How could the system tell? It's again, 2 separate accounts...where the silver has no match history of good performance. It's just a dummy acct. The way the MM manipulators would get caught is actually by viewing the full team roster benefiting from the silver acct, and not the silver accts performance itself since...it's a silver account and kept silver for the purpose of boosting the other players. This again all needs a player to actually report what has happened. Unfortunately most of us just keep playing. I've never reported for that reason. I've reported stuff like dumb messages players have sent me full of insults, but not what we're speaking of. Next time I encounter this I actually will try and see if the effort does something.

I don't think it's as easy as you think it is...nor do I in anyway believe this kind of problem is being resolved automatically through the ranking system itself....

The only thing the ranking system can do, is fix an incorrect rank/mmr by someone jumping in performance...which...funny enough....is a boost up...in a perfect world it makes sense. The players actually better than that players current rank...but it also ends up being manipulated like what we're currently discussing.

To derank..I mean...you just play bad. If the sticks are moving and you're shooting....hitting stuff....you aren't going to be removed from the game. Nothings gonna happen.
I can't name shame or post stuff here. Idk how the rules work regarding that, but I'm going to PM you something to look into to give you the insight. Something I found by searching 1 weird match in my recent history. Viewing the players the alt acct played with took me down a long trip to see even more alt accts used to help other players that all seem to be playing with each other, making alt accts, and the alt accts always have similar service tags. Sad to see so much of this crap. I feel like it can't be helped man. Ban 1, another one is easily made...
Pheinted wrote:
IGRS wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
IGRS wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
IGRS wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
IGRS wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Pheinted wrote:
qlimm wrote:
Look, if you get 1 CSR per game it means either the odds of winning are heavily in your favor or you didn't do anything worthy of increasing your rank.

I hate to break it to you but the population cannot support making fair games against stacked teams. If you want a break from +1/-10 games then I suggest you solo queue.
You're failing to realize that people are purposely stacking their team certain ways to

1 - prevent them from losing a ton of csr on their losses (meaning when they lose, the winners get close to nothing from it as well...even if they just beat a team holding a high onyx or champ...if that team loses they lose a ton)

2- it allows the best player to get an insane amount of kills in match from skewing the matchmaking and getting them easier matches....boosting their gains...being the best player on their team where they're not only better than everyone on their team, but also everyone on the other team as well...where that other team will have far less skilled players. I've even first hand witnessed a team feeding all the kills to 1 player. So sometimes it isn't even that 1 is way better....it's an organized strategy to work the system...using any means possible.

Does that high onyx player deserve to gain a boost because his high amount of kills over some daimonds shows he's "worthy" of the increase?

I hate to break it to you, but the matchmaking isn't creating those weird teams with 1 low tier player and 3 high tier accidentally. No. That's actually an actual team created on purpose. Sometimes its a different mix, but the idea behind it remains the same.
Regarding your first point, yeah if you stack a team basically guaranteeing a win you don't deserve to rank up. Just like if you bet on the favorite horse you aren't going to get much in return. If you go in solo queuing you will likely lose more games but your potential CSR loss decreases while your potential CSR gain increases (the exact opposite of going in with a to4). I am assuming the player's performance is staying relatively the same (and yes, TS2 factors in teammates when predicting your KPM).

The team of 3 good players and one atrocious player is because the team of three players are better than the opposing team, so the matchmaker is trying to balance out the teams so that the winner has to prove they are better through gameplay, not by picking teammates in the pregame lobby.

Also, just because you "feel" like you should've earned more than 1 CSR or lost less than 10 doesn't mean you deserved it. As far as I know, TS2 is not sentient and does not care about feelings.

The system still makes unwinnable games and these usually result in minimal CSR movement for both sides.
You're clearly missing the entire point. By a lot too. I'll emphasize using caps.

1 team has 3 good player, 1 SEEMINGLY bad player. This is a PRE MADE team. That 1 "atrocious" player, is actually JUST AS GOOD if not BETTER than the other 3 players. This is called an ALT account. Purposely placed at a low tier, so that when that team of 4 searches...it lowers their overall team strength DESPITE that player being JUST AS GOOD if not BETTER in reality. That acct is not intended to get lots of kills or rank up. This is being Purposely done.

Matchmaking then searches for a team accordingly. Giving them....or so the system expects to be...a fair match...where there is a COMPENSATION of that lower placed player...on the opposing team...

Following so far?

The team with the "atrocious " player will be well rewarded...because the system will not expect an absolute steam roll...because of that "atrocious" player....the other team is expected to have a fair chance BECAUSE of that "atrocious" player. If the team without the "atrocious" player wins...they don't get much...and in some cases...hardly ANYTHING depending on how low that "atrocious " player is. If they lose? Expect a BIG loss of progress.

I hope that helps clarify what you may have not understood in my OP.
Ok, you didn't specify the "low tier" player in your original post was part of the to4 and is purposely manipulating the system. No need for the condescension. To be fair, the scenario that I described (to3 nerfed with a random 4th) is fairly common as well.

Anyways, in order to keep a low rank they have to intentionally not get kills and only do damage. Plus they benefit from that player probably knowing how to not feed. It is a scenario I've considered and even asked in the official MM thread but I was never answered, possibly because it is a credible loophole of the current matchmaking algorithm.

Luckily I haven't seen it done too often... I'm sorry that you have.
We don’t see it too often because it’s considered cheating and the offending players (deranker and all in their party) get long bans for manipulating matchmaking. The system catches these derankers
https://support.halowaypoint.com/

You can submit a ticket there

The system definitely flags them automatically, I’m not sure if an enforcement team member manually verifies it or the ban is done automatically but players reporting them isn’t required, it just might speed up the process. It can pretty easily see that a player normally plays like an onyx 1600 then suddenly plays like a Silver on their alt to benefit their friends.
reported. Maybe multiple offenses or something real bad to warrant such a ban. The scenario we're talking about though, I don't believe the system just automatically flags the account. How could the system tell? It's again, 2 separate accounts...where the silver has no match history of good performance. It's just a dummy acct. The way the MM manipulators would get caught is actually by viewing the full team roster benefiting from the silver acct, and not the silver accts performance itself since...it's a silver account and kept silver for the purpose of boosting the other players. This again all needs a player to actually report what has happened. Unfortunately most of us just keep playing. I've never reported for that reason. I've reported stuff like dumb messages players have sent me full of insults, but not what we're speaking of. Next time I encounter this I actually will try and see if the effort does something.

I don't think it's as easy as you think it is...nor do I in anyway believe this kind of problem is being resolved automatically through the ranking system itself....

The only thing the ranking system can do, is fix an incorrect rank/mmr by someone jumping in performance...which...funny enough....is a boost up...in a perfect world it makes sense. The players actually better than that players current rank...but it also ends up being manipulated like what we're currently discussing.

To derank..I mean...you just play bad. If the sticks are moving and you're shooting....hitting stuff....you aren't going to be removed from the game. Nothings gonna happen.
I can't name shame or post stuff here. Idk how the rules work regarding that, but I'm going to PM you something to look into to give you the insight. Something I found by searching 1 weird match in my recent history. the players the alt acct played with took me down a long trip to see even more alt accts used to help other players that all seem to be playing with each other, making alt accts,
You can definitely post a link to any game..it’s publicly accessible by anyone on Waypoint and increases the likelihood something will be done about it.

Best bet is to submit the support ticket each time you see it if you want action taken against them
The latest post complaining in the ban thread shows that they do indeed ban across accounts:link

Likely in this scenario the console was banned, if they create another account that will be banned too.
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