Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

[Locked] The Reason We Still Fight For A No Sprint Halo

OP Favyn

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if 343 kept with the no sprint then they would continuously release the same game.
Sure the story and graphics would change but it would just be a shadow of the earlier ones.
If you dont like the sprint and fast paced gaming then go to a different game
Uh, what?

Halo has had sprint for 3 straight games and over 7 years. At this point keeping sprint is the boring, safe option.
JLEG3NDARY wrote:
I'm a day one Halo fan. I'm enjoy Sprint. Just have classic mode where it's disabled to please those who dislike it. I don't want it permanently removed from Halo. I truly dislike arguing with other Halo fan's. Some people deal with change well and sine don't. I was playing Halo 3 on my XB360 last week and it's still fun for what it is and looks great as well but it's dated. If Halo stood at that pace forever it would just failed to evolve as a franchise. But for those who dislike it or cannot deal with change at all, I would like tinder a classic mode created and they could all okay there with the updated visuals.
Sprint is objectively bad for Halo and has been proven by many arguments. This is has nothing to do with a general dislike of change that you assume anti sprinters have and no one is asking for a carbon copy of Halo 2 and Halo 3. I prefer my gameplay to be faster but sprint does not do this, it only gives the illusion of it and I am personally perfectly fine with thrusters as it creates a new dynamic in combat situations with no negative effects I am aware of while Sprint on the other hand has a host of negative things caused by it and has no relevance to combat situations aside from running away and spartan charge, a ridiculously broken mechanic in SWAT.
Subjective actually. Opinions on why and how sprint hurts halo doesn't make it objective. Until there's hard proof to show that sprint is the issue, I'll stick with the logical reason that it's a multitude of things hurting halo over sprint.
Sprint increases the size of maps due to maps assuming sprint as default state of movement. (See Midship vs Truth) This forces players to sprint to compensate for the increased distance causing them more likely to only stop when the meet an enemy and creates a distinct barrier between movement and combat. For evidene of sprint increasing size of maps, see discussions on Truth vs Midship. It takes the same time to walk to a certain point on Midship as it does to sprint on truth.
Sprint decreases Time to Kill to prevent players from escaping. The lower the TTK, the more reaction time is promoted over skill thus reducing skillgap and producing a more random, chaotic style of gameplay, which is a hallmark of twitch shooters like COD.
Sprint restricts movement options. Due to the fact that the maps effectively force you to use sprint, you are forced to go at essentially one speed to overcome the large distances in maps(something caused by sprint) which makes engagements extremely linear. In addition, sprint causes players to have a lower base speed, (see base speed difference between Halo 2/3 and Halo 5) limiting strafing.
Sprint is also responsible for the high strength of grenades( thrusters also cause this) and decrease vehicle effectiveness.
I think you are also misinterpreting my sentiment, sprint, while I believe is bad for halo, does not make or break a Halo game and there are plenty of things that hurt Halo 5 aside from sprint, content level, customization etc. For a more detailed explanation of why Sprint is bad for Halo, read Sprint: An analysis. His explanation of sprint is very enlightening I recommend you read it.
Good day
I understand what sprint does and doesn't do(and some of what you said I disagree with, ttk being shortend because of sprint being one example, grenades being another) I'm not vs it or for it either, my point was you seemed like you was saying its objective that sprint isn't good for halo. What's objective is yes, sprint elongates maps, fact because maps are bigger than normal, but it's opinion or only speculation that sprint is bad for the game.
shadow angel it's also opinion or speculation that sprint is good for the game, but you don't seem to get that part, do you?

I know halo was much more tactical without sprint, now it's just run-n-gun like other simple fps. and no-one still can't show me what the -Yoink- is evolutionary about that.
Do you see me saying it's good or bad? Why ask dumb questions? And then say I don't get it when you don't even know my stance.
you seem to be getting upset, you spent an entire essay attempting to refute others opinions on "no sprint"

You have not presented any facts as to why we should not be entitled to our opinions. You want to make others hush if you don't support their sides

you claim that I am wrong to speculate that you are a pro sprinter (good or bad)? prove me wrong then... exactly you are pro sprinter, it's obvious; duh.
I've played the -Yoink- out of Halo 5, but I would much prefer if the series didn't have Spartan Abilities or Sprint.
Our last hope is H3A if it releases next year... otherwise we're stuck with TMCC and that thing is dead as -Yoink- :(
Favyn wrote:
H2 almost had sprint but it was cut before launch just like half of the story because that stuff wasn't finished before the release date.
Nope! Try again.

Sprint in Halo 2 was cut because it didn't work with the gameplay of Halo 2, according to one of the developers. If it didn't work then, it is reasonable to assume that it wouldn't work now.
Sprint was cut shortly before launch because they didn't have enough time to make it work. If you go on YouTube you can see that it looked terrible.
Hey there!

Not trying to be rude or anything, but when you said that sprint was cut shortly before launch, did you just make that statement up?

Did you just assume it to be true or better yet assume no one would fact check it?

I'm not trying to belittle you, but throughout this thread I see so many people saying things that simply are not true.

Here is a link to the person who animated the cut sprint animations for Halo 2, essentially confirming it was cut very quickly and was just done for some testing.

Please Fact Check Next Time
"Sprint in H2 was cut due to time" is on the same level as "343 is mostly ex bungie employees now" in terms of halo myths that never go away.
Favyn wrote:
H2 almost had sprint but it was cut before launch just like half of the story because that stuff wasn't finished before the release date.
Nope! Try again.

Sprint in Halo 2 was cut because it didn't work with the gameplay of Halo 2, according to one of the developers. If it didn't work then, it is reasonable to assume that it wouldn't work now.
Sprint was cut shortly before launch because they didn't have enough time to make it work. If you go on YouTube you can see that it looked terrible.
Hey there!

Not trying to be rude or anything, but when you said that sprint was cut shortly before launch, did you just make that statement up?

Did you just assume it to be true or better yet assume no one would fact check it?

I'm not trying to belittle you, but throughout this thread I see so many people saying things that simply are not true.

Here is a link to the person who animated the cut sprint animations for Halo 2, essentially confirming it was cut very quickly and was just done for some testing.

Please Fact Check Next Time
"Sprint in H2 was cut due to time" is on the same level as "343 is mostly ex bungie employees now" in terms of halo myths that never go away.
I saw a YouTube video with footage of sprint and the youtuber talking about how it got cut, all I know is that bungie considered it enough to actually work on it before scrapping it.
Favyn wrote:
H2 almost had sprint but it was cut before launch just like half of the story because that stuff wasn't finished before the release date.
Nope! Try again.

Sprint in Halo 2 was cut because it didn't work with the gameplay of Halo 2, according to one of the developers. If it didn't work then, it is reasonable to assume that it wouldn't work now.
Sprint was cut shortly before launch because they didn't have enough time to make it work. If you go on YouTube you can see that it looked terrible.
Hey there!

Not trying to be rude or anything, but when you said that sprint was cut shortly before launch, did you just make that statement up?

Did you just assume it to be true or better yet assume no one would fact check it?

I'm not trying to belittle you, but throughout this thread I see so many people saying things that simply are not true.

Here is a link to the person who animated the cut sprint animations for Halo 2, essentially confirming it was cut very quickly and was just done for some testing.

Please Fact Check Next Time
"Sprint in H2 was cut due to time" is on the same level as "343 is mostly ex bungie employees now" in terms of halo myths that never go away.
I saw a YouTube video with footage of sprint and the youtuber talking about how it got cut, all I know is that bungie considered it enough to actually work on it before scrapping it.
It was cut in the dev testing stage, please follow links. This is real basic stuff.
This argument is predicated on the fact that movement speeds had something to do with the "Experience" you were getting from the game. The unique experience of not sprinting would be the key difference between the two styles. If Halo was a different kind of game to you, say an equal starts console shooter, then that experience is still unique. Therefore, this argument cant be some objectively worded argument.

Also, the importance of "fast" and "slow" or any sort of movement speed does not matter in the original trilogy games. There was no CS-esque mechanic for moving faster by having a pistol out or anything like that, everyone just moved at the same speed. Moving faster or slower doesnt matter in those games because everyone is the same speed and theres no way to change that,
Favyn wrote:
Hello Waypoint,

Earlier today a thread was started saying if 343 had listened to the fans, Sprint would have been removed. My video was linked in that thread.

Now I do believe the OP had good intentions when he created it, but unfortunately he presented it in a way that was off putting and dismissive of people who legitimately enjoy the mechanic.

Now some of you better know me from my youtube channel Favyn, and if you haven't heard of me then that's ok because I won't be linking any of my content here and it isn't overly important. ( If I do this will be banished to the realm of Community Creations)

Now I myself have been aggressive when it comes to this topic, but I realize now that there are a lot of people who like the mechanic. So for those people who don't get it. For those people who think someone like me should just go away, I just want to briefly talk about why I and so many other continue to fight for an eventual No Sprint Halo.

Firstly why am I still here?

I'm still here because Halo changed my life. It is the series that ignited my passion for video games. It was almost ethereal and otherworldly with how it presented itself, and I couldn't help but lose myself in its world. Over the years, as other games tried to catch up, Halo continued to sit atop its throne constantly pumping out innovative ideas and differentiating itself with the creativity it afforded its players.

It was simple. Anybody could pick it up and play it, but it had the depth so that if you chose to spend enough time with it, you could reach exponential heights with its gameplay.

Now we could argue forever on which game changed what and which game is ultimately responsible for Halo's downward shift, but fact is no matter what game you blame the shift on, Halo simply isn't what it used to be.

And it isn't just sprint. Its Everything. Its the tone, its the art style, its the overall direction. Sprint is just the conduit we use to encapsulate our frustration with all of these things. Sprint is the catalyst for our rage, simply because it is the most easily recognizable and understandable difference between the trilogy and the post Reach Halo's.

Sprint does more than just change the speed. It does more than "make you feel like a spartan". It changes the game at a fundamental level. And I won't go in to how it does this because it will take forever and I've made multiple videos on it. But you just have to understand that when you say all it does is make you faster, or all it does is make you feel more like a Spartan, that objectively is not true from a game design perspective. Now it is an opinion whether or not you think each respective style is better, but they are factually different and if you refuse to accept that then nothing I say will have any effect on you anyway.

For those who say why does it matter? If Halo 5 is fun, If it's a good game then shouldn't that be all that matters?

And I would just like to tell you, as someone who has a deep appreciation for game design, that it isn't a matter of something just being good. It's about what sort of experience am I getting.

I can get a lot of " good" experiences from multiple games. I'm playing through Dark Souls 3 right now and I'm loving it. It's a unique franchise with unique storytelling and gameplay that I can't get anywhere else.

The problem is that I can't get that classic Halo formula I crave anywhere else either, and the series that I originally relied on for it doesn't provide it anymore.

You see I might like Halo 5. But I LOVE Halo 1-3. I want a game in that style. I want to have new experiences using that formula, and because Halo 1-3 were so unique in what they did, I can't just go "play another game". The thing with Sprint and Enhanced Mobility, is that I can go play a multitude of other shooters on the market right now that offer the same thing. And while its true Halo 5 has even starts, and weapon pick ups and that differentiates it. The things that differentiate Halo 5 from everything else are things Halo already had. The NEW THINGS that Halo 5 incorporated and chose to innovate with are the same things every other game at this point chose to innovate with, and while yes it may be good, it's good for different reasons than it was before. The only difference is I can get that high mobility experience in a multitude of games right now, but I can't get that harmonious classic Halo gameplay anywhere.

That's why I fight for it. Halo was already special. Halo had gameplay that no other game had, and looking around at the market right now, that's still the case. Some will look at Doom and think it's comparable with classic Halo, but honestly it isn't. It's completely different and yet despite the obvious differences people still compare the two because thats how few comparisons the style actually has right now.

I don't want to start arguments. I don't need you to tell me what style you like better, or tell me that sprint has to be in the game to sell and all of the arguments that have been used time and time again.

I just want you to understand why some of us feel the way we do.

A Halo without sprint is a different experince. And it's one a lot of us loved very much.

Thank You

Edit: this post is 10 pages long now and I still see people ignoring the post and saying the same things I tried to address. For those who don't want to read, here is a video I made explaining some design principles. I spent a lot of time compiling these thoughts and if you are not willing to listen, don't leave a comment making the assumption I say something I dont.

https://youtu.be/gJ1cAra_CrA
I read your post with interest! Good wrinting and thanks for sharing! Almost allways a lot of replies on posts like this are very dumb. People say like "it won't change, so get over it..." or "did't read...blabla". Maybe it represents the kind of audiance H5 nowadays has. I have exactly the same feelings as you. Played Halo from the very first step and have so many good memories from all those years that I played the games. And indeed it has changed. Halo 5 is obviously different and a much faster game. Go play Reach or Halo 3 again, it's much slower. Not only because of sprint, but sprint definately lies as roots of this. One of the biggest dissapointments or major changes that I think was a big let down to the series was adding the req system. I still do not see why this improves the collecting of your favourite stuff. The req system makes 'collecting' in a worthy way almost impossible. Because the whole point of 'working your guts off for an item you want so much' is gone now. Such a waste imo.

But an important thing to mention is, and it also might be one of the conclusions of your post, that the target group of halo has changed a lot. Younger players play H5 now and only see how Halo is now. They don't know better. Or they don't know the old Halo feeling and memories. Like we played CE and H2 and H3 and experienced the whole thing. I makes a huge difference I think. They are simply more like this: "I like how H5 is cause I don't know any better". It has to do with generations of gamers. And you can't do something about it. Only hoping Halo will (maybe) change again in the future.

Ps. Sorry if I made misspellings. English is not my native language.
#NosprintHalo
If you want to attract younger players, following the trends is not the solution. You can't beat the trendsetters at their own game. Therefore differentiate and give the kids a reason to buy Halo over CoD or BF.
Paqk wrote:
I'm 31 years old. I've played Halo since CE, was at a midnight release for Halo 2. Halo 3 is my all time favorite.

No matter how smart you try to sound, or how many videos you upload... You're either going to adapt like the majority of us, or move on to other games.

But here you are. Playing a Halo game with sprint.
I have some hard time believing that the majority of the Halo community has "adapted" to new Halo, it appears to be more of a vocal minority. The thing is, and this is the important thing, GAMEPLAY IS NOT THE CORE OF HALO. It is what Halo is that dictates the gameplay. For example, Reach which started the move away from the core Halo mechanics did so because Bungie/343 had clearly used Reach as a clean slate to break Halo into the mainstream. This is not a bad thing per se, but something should only be in the mainstream because of its sheer quality, not as an admiration of the creators, when that happens the game becomes a money making machine and loses what its original qualities were. I remember being 14 in school in 2009 just before I got an Xbox, I said I wanted to get a 360 purely because I played Halo once 4 years ago and since then have never forgotten. But Halo to the largely PS3/COD playing school had a stigma of being sort of "geeky" or something. I don't know what it was, but I'm sure people can understand that there were PS3 players and the Halo players and they were different people.

In some ways, Halo worked fine without Sprint. When I was at school and people would say they didn't like Halo because it was too slow, I would give the answer, rightly or wrongly that as you were a super solider you were constantly running so it only "appears" slow because that is the default speed. Without Sprint it was a lot more brutal, the psychological aspect of being able to run away from a fight was not there, so every step you took had, HAD to be a good decision, or you will die. Not having sprint made the gameplay more tense and excited, It seems that once Sprint was put in it was a loss of confidence in the game developers that they could make an engaging Halo game, which is especially true seeing Microsoft is "drip feeding" Halo players.

The argument of "adapting"is also not entirely fair. Imagine if in the next James Bond films, Bond retired from MI6 and became a minor officer in the British police that mainly consisted of dull, bureaucratic irregularities. Would fans argue we must adapt to the new Bond? No. There would be an outcry because the franchise that people fell in love with, is changing for no apparent reason. I have never, ever been so engaged in a franchise, game, film or book than I was in Halo. It was so unbelievably interesting and satisfying. My Halo love affair began to die after Reach reached its peak, and died once and for all once Halo 5 came out. I don't think its fair to tell people to adapt to something that is so fundamentally different to the product that engaged them in the first place.
I'm a fan of your channel and totally agree with you we need to keep fighting so halo can thrive and become the amazing game it once was and hopefully better
Favyn wrote:
akool22 wrote:
Paqk wrote:
I have some hard time trouble believing that the majority of the Halo community has "adapted" to new Halo. It appears to be more of a vocal minority. The thing is and this is the important thing GAMEPLAY IS NOT THE CORE OF HALO. It is what Halo is that dictates the gameplay. For example, Reach which started the move away from the core Halo mechanics did so because Bungie/343 had clearly used Reach as a clean slate to break Halo into the mainstream. This is not a bad thing per se, but something should only be in the mainstream because of its sheer quality, not as an admiration of the creators, when that happens the game becomes a money making machine and loses what its original qualities were. I remember being 14 in school in 2009 just before I got an Xbox, I said I wanted to get a 360 purely because I played Halo once 4 years ago and since then have never forgotten. But Halo to the largely PS3/COD playing school had a stigma of being sort of "geeky" or something. I don't know what it was, but I'm sure people can understand that there were PS3 players and the Halo players and they were different people.

In some ways, Halo worked fine without Sprint. When I was at school and people would say they didn't like Halo because it was too slow, I would give the answer, rightly or wrongly that as you were a super solider you were constantly running so it only "appears" slow because that is the default speed. Without Sprint it was a lot more brutal, the psychological aspect of being able to run away from a fight was not there, so every step you took had, HAD to be a good decision, or you will die. Not having sprint made the gameplay more tense and excited, It seems that once Sprint was put in it was a loss of confidence in the game developers that they could make an engaging Halo game, which is especially true seeing Microsoft is "drip feeding" Halo players.

The argument of "adapting"is also not entirely fair. Imagine if in the next James Bond films, Bond retired from MI6 and became a minor officer in the British police that mainly consisted of dull, bureaucratic irregularities. Would fans argue we must adapt to the new Bond? No. There would be an outcry because the franchise that people fell in love with, is changing for no apparent reason. I have never, ever been so engaged in a franchise, game, film or book than I was in Halo. It was so unbelievably interesting and satisfying. My Halo love affair began to die after Reach reached its peak, and died once and for all once Halo 5 came out. I don't think its fair to tell people to adapt to something that is so fundamentally different to the product that engaged them in the first place.
akool22 very well stated!

Project Cars gave gamers a racing game with flat tires and told us to adapt to it. guess what happened? yep you guessed it, we went to play forza6. Project Cars devs are still crying over that loss imo and it serves them right too.

I hope Halo does not travel down the same road as the broken sim Project Cars, but trust me haha, halo would have to do something really -Yoinked!- up to be in as bad of position as project cars. Actually Halo is not a bad game in this gen. it is the fact that the older halos were so epic it set the bar really high. and us veteran halo fans have high expectations for this game it's not nostalgia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94rCIS_bvNc

Just watch and realize sprint makes no sense whether you love it or hate it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94rCIS_bvNc

Just watch and realize sprint makes no sense whether you love it or hate it.
exactly,

so you are saying?

All they did is slowed down gameplay for walk speed then made sprint normal pace? haha

so we now have to hold down sprint button in order to go normal pace? bummer but....

agreed, sprint makes no sense. However Im happy to know that 343 fooled all those cod fan boys thinking they were actually getting sprint. Because if they had never added "pretend sprint" you would never hear the end of cod fanboy ranting. they got sick and tired of playing boring cod, so they wanted to come here and destroy our halo, and 343 tricked them? lol now thats a real classic Halo play at 343. So from this point on I'm just going to laugh when i see another "sprint is here to stay post"

so, this resolves our problems. 343 actually listened from both angles and made all fans happy to a certain extent.
I totally understand and feel the same thing you do op. I think halo 5 is missing that classic halo feel to it and I do like it but I am not in love with it. It definitely is a solid game in it's own right but it misses that halo feel that I remember absolutely loving when I played the classics.
ummm no sprint is amazing there is no way 343 is removing sprint that is stupid
ummm no sprint is amazing there is no way 343 is removing sprint that is stupid
sales and population disagree with you but top notch point top notch, bravo
still going ham about this lol
Favyn wrote:
Hello Waypoint,

Earlier today a thread was started saying if 343 had listened to the fans, Sprint would have been removed. My video was linked in that thread.

Now I do believe the OP had good intentions when he created it, but unfortunately he presented it in a way that was off putting and dismissive of people who legitimately enjoy the mechanic.

Now some of you better know me from my youtube channel Favyn, and if you haven't heard of me then that's ok because I won't be linking any of my content here and it isn't overly important. ( If I do this will be banished to the realm of Community Creations)

Now I myself have been aggressive when it comes to this topic, but I realize now that there are a lot of people who like the mechanic. So for those people who don't get it. For those people who think someone like me should just go away, I just want to briefly talk about why I and so many other continue to fight for an eventual No Sprint Halo.

Firstly why am I still here?

I'm still here because Halo changed my life. It is the series that ignited my passion for video games. It was almost ethereal and otherworldly with how it presented itself, and I couldn't help but lose myself in its world. Over the years, as other games tried to catch up, Halo continued to sit atop its throne constantly pumping out innovative ideas and differentiating itself with the creativity it afforded its players.

It was simple. Anybody could pick it up and play it, but it had the depth so that if you chose to spend enough time with it, you could reach exponential heights with its gameplay.

Now we could argue forever on which game changed what and which game is ultimately responsible for Halo's downward shift, but fact is no matter what game you blame the shift on, Halo simply isn't what it used to be.

And it isn't just sprint. Its Everything. Its the tone, its the art style, its the overall direction. Sprint is just the conduit we use to encapsulate our frustration with all of these things. Sprint is the catalyst for our rage, simply because it is the most easily recognizable and understandable difference between the trilogy and the post Reach Halo's.

Sprint does more than just change the speed. It does more than "make you feel like a spartan". It changes the game at a fundamental level. And I won't go in to how it does this because it will take forever and I've made multiple videos on it. But you just have to understand that when you say all it does is make you faster, or all it does is make you feel more like a Spartan, that objectively is not true from a game design perspective. Now it is an opinion whether or not you think each respective style is better, but they are factually different and if you refuse to accept that then nothing I say will have any effect on you anyway.

For those who say why does it matter? If Halo 5 is fun, If it's a good game then shouldn't that be all that matters?

And I would just like to tell you, as someone who has a deep appreciation for game design, that it isn't a matter of something just being good. It's about what sort of experience am I getting.

I can get a lot of " good" experiences from multiple games. I'm playing through Dark Souls 3 right now and I'm loving it. It's a unique franchise with unique storytelling and gameplay that I can't get anywhere else.

The problem is that I can't get that classic Halo formula I crave anywhere else either, and the series that I originally relied on for it doesn't provide it anymore.

You see I might like Halo 5. But I LOVE Halo 1-3. I want a game in that style. I want to have new experiences using that formula, and because Halo 1-3 were so unique in what they did, I can't just go "play another game". The thing with Sprint and Enhanced Mobility, is that I can go play a multitude of other shooters on the market right now that offer the same thing. And while its true Halo 5 has even starts, and weapon pick ups and that differentiates it. The things that differentiate Halo 5 from everything else are things Halo already had. The NEW THINGS that Halo 5 incorporated and chose to innovate with are the same things every other game at this point chose to innovate with, and while yes it may be good, it's good for different reasons than it was before. The only difference is I can get that high mobility experience in a multitude of games right now, but I can't get that harmonious classic Halo gameplay anywhere.

That's why I fight for it. Halo was already special. Halo had gameplay that no other game had, and looking around at the market right now, that's still the case. Some will look at Doom and think it's comparable with classic Halo, but honestly it isn't. It's completely different and yet despite the obvious differences people still compare the two because thats how few comparisons the style actually has right now.

I don't want to start arguments. I don't need you to tell me what style you like better, or tell me that sprint has to be in the game to sell and all of the arguments that have been used time and time again.

I just want you to understand why some of us feel the way we do.

A Halo without sprint is a different experince. And it's one a lot of us loved very much.

Thank You

Edit: this post is 10 pages long now and I still see people ignoring the post and saying the same things I tried to address. For those who don't want to read, here is a video I made explaining some design principles. I spent a lot of time compiling these thoughts and if you are not willing to listen, don't leave a comment making the assumption I say something I dont.

https://youtu.be/gJ1cAra_CrA
Update the title of the thread and put the video at the top.
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