Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

The sprint discussion thread

OP Gandalfur

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Maybe this is too radical, like poeple said a million times, make a classic playlist like in the old days. Lets just try maybe it is awesome
They did...it's called the master chief collection
You are right Halo 2 Anniversary was a much better game than Halo 5.
I feel like Halo 2 was prime anyways. Every halo has had their changes,and if you don't like them, go back and play the old ones. That's what MCC is there for. I don't think halo 5 is perfect, but it's still Halo. In order to keep halo alive and kicking and gaining new players, they have to make changes, otherwise, it makes it impossible for newcomers.
I was a newcomer to Halo 5, and I found the learning curve to be even steeper than previous Halo titles.

The MCC was a disaster, it was poorly executed and died very early on. I'm extremely glad that I didn't buy an Xbox at it's original sale price. Call me paranoid, but that seemed pretty sketchy to me, because I didn't have any other reason to get an XBox back then. It's simply ridiculous that 343i didn't deliver, but part of it probably had something to do with MS rushing to release their current gen console.
Maybe this is too radical, like poeple said a million times, make a classic playlist like in the old days. Lets just try maybe it is awesome
They did...it's called the master chief collection
You are right Halo 2 Anniversary was a much better game than Halo 5.
I feel like Halo 2 was prime anyways. Every halo has had their changes,and if you don't like them, go back and play the old ones. That's what MCC is there for. I don't think halo 5 is perfect, but it's still Halo. In order to keep halo alive and kicking and gaining new players, they have to make changes, otherwise, it makes it impossible for newcomers.
Audience management 101. Don't alienate your fanbase for a new one. You will always lose more than you bring in. This can be seen with the decline in Halo's popularity since 2010, and more recently with COD's popularity since 2014 with AW. Newcomers will always come try out your game, but you need to make a good game for them to stay. You also want to make a good game so that your core player base will stay. This is the problem with Halo since Reach. They alienated their player base in search of a new one. Reach ended up selling well, but player numbers dropped off quickly. Halo 4 did even worse.
Step 1. Make a game similar enough to your first one that your current audience will like it. Make sure to add more than enough content to keep them playing.
Step 2. Market the hell out of your game.
Step 3. Keep adding content every month or two like maps, game modes, and playlists. Things that are not tangible are cosmetics and pay to earn type of content.
Step 4. Make sure to listen to the fans about important issues, and provide tangible feedback to those issues.
While I agree with you, games like COD have virtually no learning curve and anyone who grew up with video games can jump in and feel like a boss. This is not the same with Halo, which requires more practice and understanding of the game. I like the new features because they test me and make me come up with new strategies and tactics in order to stay good without completely changing them. The Halo "dance" is still very similar to the halo we know and love. Personally, I think the new maneuverability makes you stay on your toes when you're shooting at someone. I like the ability to slide into cover and boost to avoid grenades or to get the jump on someone who you know is waiting for you around the corner. I think that sprinting and more maneuverability allows for someone to recover from being second to pull the trigger, which I enjoy.
You know, these changes to the gameplay would be cool--in a non-Halo title. You're not supposed to be able to dodge grenades through poor positioning, that was something that classic Halo got right. In classic Halo, you could get the jump on someone waiting around a corner with a well-placed grenade. In classic Halo games, I out-shot someone who fired first countless times by strafing--or by using the environment to gain altitude, or provide cover, because the maps were well-designed for that type of gameplay. That was the Halo "dance". Halo 5, doesn't have that dance. Its gameplay is good, but it's poorly applied. Sliding might be an interesting addition, maybe with a "terminal velocity" mechanic, but Spartan Abilities, IMO, have to go.
Maybe this is too radical, like poeple said a million times, make a classic playlist like in the old days. Lets just try maybe it is awesome
They did...it's called the master chief collection
You are right Halo 2 Anniversary was a much better game than Halo 5.
I feel like Halo 2 was prime anyways. Every halo has had their changes,and if you don't like them, go back and play the old ones. That's what MCC is there for. I don't think halo 5 is perfect, but it's still Halo. In order to keep halo alive and kicking and gaining new players, they have to make changes, otherwise, it makes it impossible for newcomers.
I was a newcomer to Halo 5, and I found the learning curve to be even steeper than previous Halo titles.

The MCC was a disaster, it was poorly executed and died very early on. I'm extremely glad that I didn't buy an Xbox at it's original sale price. Call me paranoid, but that seemed pretty sketchy to me, because I didn't have any other reason to get an XBox back then. It's simply ridiculous that 343i didn't deliver, but part of it probably had something to do with MS rushing to release their current gen console.
It's kind of weird how they add sprint to make the game more accessible to new players, but they make it more complicated than what newcomers used to.

In other games, when you sprint you can't shoot or reload (though CoD lets you reload during sprint now). Those are the only rules really. In Halo 5, you can't shoot or reload, you stop sprinting when shot and sprinting keeps your shields from recharging. It's counterproductive and they don't even realize it.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Do not make non-constructive posts.

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Sprint and clamber are the most monotonous and tedious movement mechanics in gaming history. They cause constant button mashing, tapping, and holding and that's about it as far as I can tell.

Clamber - When all you have to do is look at what you want to climb on and press/hold A, you might as well not even have to press/hold those buttons at all. Just let people look at where they want to go and float up there. Nothing more frustrating than jumping up and down trying to get the game (with a mechanic meant to allow everyone to go wherever they please with ease) to recognize you want to climb on the clamber-able ledge in front of you.

Sprint - Pacing is most important thing in any online FPS experience (in my opinion). I thought Halo 2 and Halo 3 were incredible in this area. Sprint undoubtedly impacts pacing (as does clamber). I would welcome a sprint and clamber less Halo 6.
What if you miss the jump? CLAMBER!
You should be punished for making a mistake. It makes the game easier. It adds depth, but not actual depth and it takes some skill away.
I don't think we really need to treat jump or clamber as a skill based movement. It is there only for movement. Even if we are performing well, we can miss the jump sometimes, it can be frustrating.
Yeah, that was part of the game: either you were precise or you failed. That was the point. That was why millions of people found it to be fun, for years on end.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
Spoiler:
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J3RlCH0 A wrote:
I don't feel that Sprint limits our abilities in Halo. If anything, I think it increases our options to play different scenarios in different ways. I like the aspect of being able to play the same level in campaign 5 times and have none of them be the same way twice. And that isn't just attributing to Sprint. That is the whole game mechanic. I would rather 343 bring in the ability to custom map your controller over removing existing game mechanics. I think Halo 5 is fine just the way it is.
Yeah you think

Meanwhile we'll provide evidence why it does
do I have too just check my later post proving sprint supporters wrong is tiring
Yet, you still play the game, right? Must not be bothering you that much.
Just wondering. You people who don't like sprint. You explain why sprint isn't necessary, but you don't make it clear WHY you don't like sprint. I'm not trying to start a fight. I just want to know why you people don't like sprint. I politely ask for respectful replies, please. :)
Because it has changed how multiplayer maps are designed. They lack flow and don't have as much vertical movement to them, because of their large scale. There are also huge stretches of no-man's land in several maps, and the gameplay honestly feels slower than it was in previous titles. It's also made enemy movement unpredictable, thus taking away from the overall depth of the original gameplay and map design. Classic Halo is comparable to Speed Chess in that it required quick, precise decisions, and offered severe punishments for even slight miscalculations. Classic Halo was just as much about outwitting your opponent as it was about out-shooting him.
I just can't see why is it bad. It is just a change, not necessarily means bigger maps are bad, the flow of the combat feels the same to me.
Let's say that on midship you are attacking the pink tower from red base. As you are moving there, you have your gun up the whole time. Which means that you can fight on the way there. But in H5 you'll get to Pink 2 as fast as you did in H2 if you sprint. So if you start getting shot at you won't have full shields when you get to pink. The same was true for H2 but you had a change to fight back. So why is this bad? Because now it's suddenly impossible to predict flow. You don't know what speed people will use, or how long they intend to use that speed. So I would argue that it does make the flow more unpredictable. Sprint also encourages double melees/spartan charges and discourages map control. But on your side of the argument, you fail to defend sprint from a gameplay standpoint and has everyone for like the last 14 pages. Why should it be in the game?
I'm not here to defend sprint, I just don't get it, why is it bad, or why unpredictable gameplay is wrong. Sprint encourages spartan charge, alright I agree, but Spartan Charge is a different problem that can be solved removing it.
Unpredictable movement, combined with a radar that has a shorter range than ever before, is a lot more frustrating than missing a jump. I smell a troll.

In classic Halo, pacing was what made gameplay unpredictable. Finding routes using skilled series of jumps usually made your movement completely unpredictable. In Halo 5, maps are scaled to sprint, which means that it takes just as long for a player to sprint to the same location as it does to run there in a classic Halo map. This slows down the gameplay (nobody sprints everywhere) and introduces more variables, so the calculations are more complex in that they require more precision than they did in classic Halo. However, this "depth" is superficial, because solid strategies aren't founded upon the unknown. You might know where an enemy is coming from, but after you lose sight, it turns into a game of chance: maybe you'll check the right entrance at the right time, maybe you'll look away right before the enemy appears. In classic Halo, you had a very good idea of where people may be coming from depending on how long they had been out of sight, but there were plenty of other ways to be unpredictable as well. The pacing in Halo 5 is awkward, to say the least, and I feel that it's the map design that has been chosen to accommodate sprint that is to blame for that. Can you think of a reason why this isn't true?
You nailed this subject right in the face, couldn't say it better.
The only Spartan Abilities that are acceptable IMO are Ground Pound and Smart Scope, and both of them would need to be reworked to work properly in a "real" Halo game. Everything else that 343i added to the game takes away depth and has various other negative impacts on gameplay. This obviously includes Sprint.

At I think that this is what people mean when they say Halo should still evolve, but remain true to it's roots. Ground Pound and Smart Scope are fine additions that add to the game experience, and that would work well with Halo's original gameplay model. Sure, some changes would need to occur, but that's not a problem. Things like Sprint, Thruster, and Clamber all take away though. They change the gameplay at its core. A lot of the functionality could remain though with other changes. Instead of Thruster or Clamber why not have a double jump type ability. It would do the basically the same things as Thruster and Clamber but have less of the negative side effects. Sprint can be replaced by Man Cannons, Teleporters, and Vehicles, and all of those things would add depth instead of take it away.
What, like no hangtime, with some AoE, emphasizing vertical movement on well-designed maps? I could get down with that. =P
The only Spartan Abilities that are acceptable IMO are Ground Pound and Smart Scope, and both of them would need to be reworked to work properly in a "real" Halo game. Everything else that 343i added to the game takes away depth and has various other negative impacts on gameplay. This obviously includes Sprint.

At I think that this is what people mean when they say Halo should still evolve, but remain true to it's roots. Ground Pound and Smart Scope are fine additions that add to the game experience, and that would work well with Halo's original gameplay model. Sure, some changes would need to occur, but that's not a problem. Things like Sprint, Thruster, and Clamber all take away though. They change the gameplay at its core. A lot of the functionality could remain though with other changes. Instead of Thruster or Clamber why not have a double jump type ability. It would do the basically the same things as Thruster and Clamber but have less of the negative side effects. Sprint can be replaced by Man Cannons, Teleporters, and Vehicles, and all of those things would add depth instead of take it away.
stabilizer and... maybe thrust could be in the next halo's
IMO, that's a big maybe: thrust really undermines the effectiveness of grenades.
Ez ddos it wrote:
ZuuluuZ wrote:
Ez ddos it wrote:
Ez ddos it wrote:
No way. I do not particularly like sprint but removing it is certainly for the worst.
Cool reason why.
One reason would be because it is a sign of outdated gameplay.
2 of the 3 most played FPS games this year do not use sprint.(Overwatch, CS GO)

Add to that Doom which was a critical campaign darling.

If anything hopelessly clinging to the COD train is what is the sign of being outdated. This isn't 2012 anymore.
Apart from Overwatch, both DOOM and CSGO only do that partly because they are both older games, with gameplay designed at the beginning of the century. I don't know about DOOM, but CSGO uses Source 2, which is the sequel engine to the one used in the original CS. While i think it makes sense in CSGO, i don't think it'll make it any more competitive for Halo if sprint was to be removed. In CSGO everything can be calculated, such as player health and their relative position and ETA. In Halo everything regens, and due to sprint, player timings are unpredictable, thus making it more competitive but in a different way.
A way that isn't in line with what Halo was, yes. I'd be fine with this gameplay in a different title by 343i.
Ez ddos it wrote:
Ez ddos it wrote:
Ez ddos it wrote:
No way. I do not particularly like sprint but removing it is certainly for the worst.
Cool reason why.
One reason would be because it is a sign of outdated gameplay. And it wouldn't change the campaign that much, just prolong it a bit, and it makes multiplayer more competitive and unpredictable.
Games in the 90s before ce had sprint, try again.
Name me a game with the same kind of sales as Halo from the 90s that had fully developed sprint as a concept. Besides, you did not take my point. It will prolong the campaign, like Two betrayals for example has been, and screws up multiplayer timings.
First, that's not a problem if the campaign is designed well and is pretty to look at to boot.

Second, how does not having sprint "screw up multiplayer timings"?
Ez ddos it wrote:
Ez ddos it wrote:
Ez ddos it wrote:
No way. I do not particularly like sprint but removing it is certainly for the worst.
Cool reason why.
One reason would be because it is a sign of outdated gameplay. And it wouldn't change the campaign that much, just prolong it a bit, and it makes multiplayer more competitive and unpredictable.
Games in the 90s before ce had sprint, try again.
Name me a game with the same kind of sales as Halo from the 90s that had fully developed sprint as a concept. Besides, you did not take my point. It will prolong the campaign, like Two betrayals for example has been, and screws up multiplayer timings.
Multiplayer timing is screwed up now because of two movement speeds, and two betrayals was only long due to the abilities of the classic Xbox, it was all copy pasted rooms.
We have a winner!
Ez ddos it wrote:
Why not compromise and ask 343i to make modern and classic playlists. I'm sure 343i might consider it.
Why would the core Halo fanbase need to ask for such a thing? Does 343i just not care?
If you think 343 does not care about the fanbase, then i don't think you deserve a copy of this game. I don't think it is possible to please you. Besides, calling yourself "Core Halo fanbase" does not make you it. Currently the opinions are split, and they cannot just go out and remove a core game mechanic just cause some ppl don't like it. This means more bug fixing, more level redesign all sorts of stuff. Even if it was that bad, i don't think i would go through that. It is their game like it or not.
Ooh baby, don't even. lol

I was very pleased with classic Halo. I've played every major Halo title for the last 15 years. I am saying these things because I absolutely love Halo. I am not the only person saying these kinds of things. Many people have stopped playing Halo because its gameplay has changed so much. These people and I make up the core Halo fanbase. I'm speaking for myself, but I'm also saying what a lot of die-hard fans have said. Sprint is not a core mechanic of a Halo game, H4 and H5 aren't Halo games. They play differently, so much so that they feel foreign. Halo is owned by its fans just as much as it's owned by its developers, because without the fans, the developers wouldn't be riding on top of a tidal wave of success. If 343i wants to run Halo into the ground, then so be it, but they truly are fools for doing so.

The only other FPS that I have played in the past 5 years is Doom, and that game is a lot more fun than Halo 5.
Ez ddos it wrote:
Ez ddos it wrote:
ZuuluuZ wrote:
Ez ddos it wrote:
Ez ddos it wrote:
No way. I do not particularly like sprint but removing it is certainly for the worst.
Cool reason why.
One reason would be because it is a sign of outdated gameplay.
2 of the 3 most played FPS games this year do not use sprint.(Overwatch, CS GO)
Add to that Doom which was a critical campaign darling.
If anything hopelessly clinging to the COD train is what is the sign of being outdated. This isn't 2012 anymore.
Apart from Overwatch, both DOOM and CSGO only do that partly because they are both older games, with gameplay designed at the beginning of the century. I don't know about DOOM, but CSGO uses Source 2, which is the sequel engine to the one used in the original CS. While i think it makes sense in CSGO, i don't think it'll make it any more competitive for Halo if sprint was to be removed. In CSGO everything can be calculated, such as player health and their relative position and ETA. In Halo everything regens, and due to sprint, player timings are unpredictable, thus making it more competitive but in a different way.
I would make the argument that unpredictable is random and random is not competitive at all.
I think you mistake random for multiple options which YOU cannot predict precisely, and that would be competitive. There is a difference between randomness, tactics and strategy.
So, multiple options that I cannot predict precisely, isn't random? wut? Please tell me that you're trolling. Or, are you attempting to imply that he is lacking in skill? Either way, you cannot form solid strategies based upon randomness. The only real tactic in Halo 5 is being unpredictable, which means that it's much more shallow than classic Halo, because that was only one of the many tactics and strategies that could be used. Simple, predictable gameplay means that only tactics and strategy will lead to victory.
Ez ddos it wrote:
ZuuluuZ wrote:
Ez ddos it wrote:
ZuuluuZ wrote:
Ez ddos it wrote:
Ez ddos it wrote:
No way. I do not particularly like sprint but removing it is certainly for the worst.
Cool reason why.
One reason would be because it is a sign of outdated gameplay.
2 of the 3 most played FPS games this year do not use sprint.(Overwatch, CS GO)

Add to that Doom which was a critical campaign darling.

If anything hopelessly clinging to the COD train is what is the sign of being outdated. This isn't 2012 anymore.
Apart from Overwatch, both DOOM and CSGO only do that partly because they are both older games, with gameplay designed at the beginning of the century. I don't know about DOOM, but CSGO uses Source 2, which is the sequel engine to the one used in the original CS. While i think it makes sense in CSGO, i don't think it'll make it any more competitive for Halo if sprint was to be removed. In CSGO everything can be calculated, such as player health and their relative position and ETA. In Halo everything regens, and due to sprint, player timings are unpredictable, thus making it more competitive but in a different way.
I'm not going to get into a competitive merits discussion because it never goes anywhere. But I will say that even since sprint was introduced to halo the competitive community has both A- been nearly unanimously against it and B- shrinking at an alarming rate.
Please state your source for that information. The community is shrinking, but it is almost certainly not only because of that. I personally have not been on these forums for very long at all, but never during Halo Reach, 4 and when 5 started off, have I seen people actually protesting this game mechanic. You also have to take in to the account that it is simply impossible to remove at this point. It would mean reworking game maps, campaign, the code and engine at the lowest level. It would mean that 343 would give a tradeoff between sleep and money, for more fans possibly staying loyal, which Halo community is not known for. They have added so much to the game already at the request of the players, more than Bungie added to their games. Examples include, Wasp, SPNKR rocket launcher and MOR update in general. All for free.
So, a major drop in sales wasn't an indicator of the addition of sprint--and other things--being an unwanted game mechanic? Doesn't the One have more processing power than the XBox and the 360 combined? The SPNKr rocket launcher was iconic, and in Halo CE from release.

I swear that this thread is going to give me an aneurysm.
Ez ddos it wrote:
ZuuluuZ wrote:
Ez ddos it wrote:
ZuuluuZ wrote:
Ez ddos it wrote:
Ez ddos it wrote:
No way. I do not particularly like sprint but removing it is certainly for the worst.
Cool reason why.
One reason would be because it is a sign of outdated gameplay.
2 of the 3 most played FPS games this year do not use sprint.(Overwatch, CS GO)
Add to that Doom which was a critical campaign darling.
If anything hopelessly clinging to the COD train is what is the sign of being outdated. This isn't 2012 anymore.
Apart from Overwatch, both DOOM and CSGO only do that partly because they are both older games, with gameplay designed at the beginning of the century. I don't know about DOOM, but CSGO uses Source 2, which is the sequel engine to the one used in the original CS. While i think it makes sense in CSGO, i don't think it'll make it any more competitive for Halo if sprint was to be removed. In CSGO everything can be calculated, such as player health and their relative position and ETA. In Halo everything regens, and due to sprint, player timings are unpredictable, thus making it more competitive but in a different way.
I'm not going to get into a competitive merits discussion because it never goes anywhere. But I will say that even since sprint was introduced to halo the competitive community has both A- been nearly unanimously against it and B- shrinking at an alarming rate.
Please state your source for that information. The community is shrinking, but it is almost certainly not only because of that. I personally have not been on these forums for very long at all, but never during Halo Reach, 4 and when 5 started off, have I seen people actually protesting this game mechanic. You also have to take in to the account that it is simply impossible to remove at this point. It would mean reworking game maps, campaign, the code and engine at the lowest level. It would mean that 343 would give a tradeoff between sleep and money, for more fans possibly staying loyal, which Halo community is not known for. They have added so much to the game already at the request of the players, more than Bungie added to their games. Examples include, Wasp, SPNKR rocket launcher and MOR update in general. All for free.
It's impossible to remove from Halo 5, but moving forward it's not. And people have always hated Sprint in the game. It's been a major complaint since day one of its introduction.

One of the reasons that it was free is because they knew they were releasing a half baked game, and that charging for the DLC would kill it almost immediately. Imagine having to pay for BTB, or Forge, or Infection, or Grifball. Just imagine that. People would freak out. That's why it was "free".
Dude, post of the year. I'm in tears. omg, lol
Naqser wrote:
Naqser wrote:
sprint and all the new maneuvers have given halo a completely new feel which makes it much harder in some cases to kill. I prefer it this way now (at the beginning I thought it was a horrible idea) but we should keep all of this.
Making it harder to achieve kills doesn't speed up the gameplay.
.
Excuse me?

You say it increases the likelyhood of surviving and encounter, it's harder to fight due to the sheer number of different mechanics presented.
Yet sprint, a boost in forward momentum, increases the speed of the gameplay? A feature not used in combat, outside of Spartan Charge.

I'd say only a small amount of gameplay happens outside combat, and a large part of that small amount is sprinting. When you're experiencing the rest of the gameplay, combat, you're usually not sprinting.
listen... it is harder for BOTH PEOPLE TO KILL. just leave it at that, if you don't like sprinting/everything else, then go to another game. I've been playing halo since halo 1 came out and played on XBC, if you know what that is. games evolve, let them. if you don't like it, don't play them anymore. i'm not trying to start a percentage battle of combat and outside combat experiences to the square root to the 4th power... just leave it alone.
Yeah, you say it's more difficult for both players which would slow down the pace of the game, but sprint speeds it up, a mechanic used most outside of combat.

Yeah, I'm very well aware of what XBC is / was, and I don't care if you had played the earliest build of Halo, the RTS version.

You're saying I'm not letting games evolve? Perhaps I just dislike this "evolutionary" path Halo has taken and want it to take another "evolutionary path".

So you avoid the argument?
Then stop playing halo if you don't like it. argument over...
lol, for real?
Ez ddos it wrote:
Why not compromise and ask 343i to make modern and classic playlists. I'm sure 343i might consider it.
Why would the core Halo fanbase need to ask for such a thing? Does 343i just not care?
If you think 343 does not care about the fanbase, then i don't think you deserve a copy of this game. I don't think it is possible to please you. Besides, calling yourself "Core Halo fanbase" does not make you it. Currently the opinions are split, and they cannot just go out and remove a core game mechanic just cause some ppl don't like it. This means more bug fixing, more level redesign all sorts of stuff. Even if it was that bad, i don't think i would go through that. It is their game like it or not.
Ooh baby, don't even. lol
I was very pleased with classic Halo. I've played every major Halo title for the last 15 years. I am saying these things because I absolutely love Halo. I am not the only person saying these kinds of things. Many people have stopped playing Halo because its gameplay has changed so much. These people and I make up the core Halo fanbase. I'm speaking for myself, but I'm also saying what a lot of die-hard fans have said. Sprint is not a core mechanic of a Halo game, H4 and H5 aren't Halo games. They play differently, so much so that they feel foreign. Halo is owned by its fans just as much as it's owned by its developers, because without the fans, the developers wouldn't be riding on top of a tidal wave of success. If 343i wasn't to run Halo into the ground, then so be it, but they truly are fools for doing so.
The only other FPS that I have played in the past 5 years is Doom, and that game is a lot more fun than Halo 5.
I'd say the number of people complaining are about equal with the number that aren't. Just appears we are seeing it more in this thread because people won't drop it and then people like me keep coming back and commenting telling you that you're delusional. EDIT: What I'm getting at is that we are obviously split on this topic. Some people don't see it as much of a burden where as others can't tolerate it. Doesn't make either side wrong. Just opinionated. Although, I'm sure someone will come along and tell me how I don't know what I'm talking about. I just happen to think it's part of the games evolution. Sure, I like the previous Halo iterations more but I can't decide if that is nostalgia talking or if they really were. I know one things for sure. I was considerably better at the other Halo games.
I am very impressed at 343 never reponsing to issues like this.
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